New SK 35mm - any news?

[tjv]

I agree with Torger. I'd be really keen to see at 35mm f5.6. Although it might make GG focusing a little harder due to more DOF wide open, the smaller aperture would make it significantly smaller. I think retro-focus is a must though, particularly with todays high-res sensors, such as the IQ1/280.

 

[jotloob]

"RODENSTOCK would , if they could , but they can't" :banghead:

Speculations , assumptions and holy wishes are a waste of time .
The next photokina 16.-21.09.2014 will show if optics are reinvented .

 

[ondebanks]

I think a well-balanced lens for "large format digital" should be optimized for f/11, and largest aperture don't need to be larger than f/5.6.

I happen to like wide aperture lenses, on all platforms.

And surely, since you have focal plane tilt control on most of these "large format digital" systems, you don't need to stop down to f/11 to get the focal depth you need in the shot.

Ray

 

[torger]

I happen to like wide aperture lenses, on all platforms.

And surely, since you have focal plane tilt control on most of these "large format digital" systems, you don't need to stop down to f/11 to get the focal depth you need in the shot.

Ray

I think it's problematic if all platforms should strive for the same properties, because then all system become similar, and I like diversity. Symmetrical, max small aperture, optimized for pretty small shooting aperture and get super-sharp large image circle with low/no distortion (and pretty nice bokeh too) in return has been the signum of large format optics, and I want that to be kept with as little compromise as possible. I think it would be bad for the large format digital genre if their wides look more and more similar to say Canon's TS-E lenses.

In the digital era most photographers look at DoF differently, with smaller CoC than traditional, which means that f/11 DoF is considered to be pretty thin in medium format. Tilt helps you make a sharper image also at f/11.

Large aperture heavy retrofocus (=low vignetting) wides is very good for shooting night skies like Aurora, but then you also need good ISO performance. The right tool for that is a DSLR.

 

[paulraphael]

And surely, since you have focal plane tilt control on most of these "large format digital" systems, you don't need to stop down to f/11 to get the focal depth you need in the shot.

Only in particular cases. In most of what I do, the detail I care about doesn't reside in just one plane. Or anywhere near one plane. I can use tilts and swings in some cases to make very minor improvements in DOF, but stopping down is required most of the time.

 

[torger]

I would guess that the style of how we deal with DoF challenges differs quite much, there's no right or wrong.

I still think that the right positioning for a Schneider Digitar lens would be f/11 optimization, the ultra-high-res segment and the costs associated (both economically and technically) is better held by Rodenstock Digarons, and really large aperture lenses are best served by DSLR lens lines.

I like Schneider Digitar positioning as a more economical and more traditional lens line, and I hope they stay that way. We can only wait and see.

 

[paulraphael]

It's interesting to think of the companies positioning themselves differently like that. It's a refreshing change from what you see in large format world, where the two companies butt heads for decades with products that are usually interchangeable.

 

[ondebanks]

Symmetrical, max small aperture, optimized for pretty small shooting aperture and get super-sharp large image circle with low/no distortion (and pretty nice bokeh too) in return has been the signum of large format optics,

That's a pretty limited description of the genre. There have been many fast lenses for large format 4x5 (and even more for medium format tech & press cameras) - just the ones that come to mind are the f2.8 Xenotars from 80 to 210 mm, f2.8 Rodie Heligons and Mamiya Sekors, 135/3.5 Planars and Xenotars (I have one of the latter), f2.5 Aero-Ektars and other aerial lenses like the f1.4 Falconar and f2 Leitz, f/4 Super Angulons (a lucky mate of mine has one), f4.5 Biogons from 38 to 75mm, and the ubiquitous f4.5 Tessars, Ektars, Xenars, Caltars and Paragons.

This was for 4x5 inch and 6x9 cm.

With the smaller format tech cams for 645 digital backs, it is even easier to produce lenses of at least this speed.

Ray

 

[torger]

I agree I narrowed it down, but those large aperture lenses where used for hand-held 4x5" and studio portraiture etc, right? Not for corner-to-corner sharpness in architecture and landscape? Schneider Digitar actually had a f/2.8 lens 100mm or something that was "in the works" some year ago but it never came out, I guess they saw no market for it. I think it would be hard to reclaim large aperture photography in tech camera, the other camera systems are just too good at it. I think it's better to be strong in the field these cameras are used for. A wide angle lens for a tech camera will be used for architecture and landscape.

We have Hasselblad H system, the Phase One 645, Hy6, they cover the large aperture genre well for medium format users.

As far as I understand, to make a wide aperture wide angle lens useful it must be highly retrofocus otherwise the vignetting will be too high. Highly retrofocus with high optical performance leads to a very large amount of lens elements. It can probably be done by any lens designer, but it will look/cost like the Rodie 32 or worse. To make something perform well without that complexity some tradeoffs must be made, and that would be smaller aperture, allow more vignetting, and optimize for f/11 rather than a larger aperture.

 

[paulraphael]

I agree I narrowed it down, but those large aperture lenses where used for hand-held 4x5" and studio portraiture etc, right?

Yup. None of the LF lenses up for my consideration have been faster than f5.6. My current lenses are a 5.6 210 Apo Symmar and f8 120 Super Angulon.

Schneider Digitar actually had a f/2.8 lens 100mm or something that was "in the works" some year ago but it never came out, I guess they saw no market for it.

There's the 28mm f2.8 digitar. Not one of their best lenses, but retrofocus.

For my purposes, fast lenses are unimportant. I'd join the call for optically better slow ones.