Anyone Stitching Panos with a MF Digital Back?

STCameras · Sep 2, 2013

Is there anyone out there stitching photos with a MF digital back? I know the answer is yes however I'd like to see some and understand how your doing it (software, back, camera, etc)?

torger · Sep 2, 2013

There are two general techniques; 1) use pano head which you turn and 2) stitch using a tech camera and shift the back so you stitch inside the lens image circle.

Typically you choose pano head if you want a cylindrical projection (often nice for landscape panoramas) and inside lens image circle if you want a rectalinear projection (architecture etc), but as any good panorama software can change projection it does not really matter.

Many prefer stitching inside the image circle as it's more "direct", the only thing you do with stitching is simulating a larger sensor area. You must have a technical camera and a lens with a large high quality image circle though.

An advantage with the pano head technique is that you will use the center area of the lens only, ie the highest quality part, and you don't need a technical camera.

When it comes to pano heads I myself prefer one with click stops (nodal ninja for example), but if you only stitch a few images in one row into your panorama any head with panning function like the Arca Swiss Cube or D4 will do.

With the panoramic head and close objects you must carefully tune the nodal point to avoid parallax problems. You'll need one setting for each lens you are using. This is possible (I've done it), and with this you can multi-row stitch tight architecture scenes and stitch into a perfectly rectalinear rendering. Many have not learnt how to tune the nodal point though and thus give up on the pano head and stitch inside the image circle instead, so you may hear things like "pano head is no good due to parallax problems", but with the proper head and tuning it's not.

If you end up stitching a lot of images I feel that "why am I using expensive MF gear for this, when I could stitch using a DSLR with a few more images?". If you like me have "ancient" MF gear and use a tech cam with mechanical shutter (cock for each image) the workflow is slow enough that DSLR stitching is smoother even if you need to stitch more images. So for tech cam stitching I would rather not stitch more than 3-4 frames in a single row, and that is what people typically do. For really large multi-row stitches I prefer DSLR-based solutions.

There's a real expert on high end MF stitching on this forum though, gerald.d. He's done a lot of impressive panorama stitching with the IQ180.

alajuela · Sep 2, 2013

Hi

As Torger explained - there is an easy way to find the Nodal Point (Entrance Pupil) - if your are not using a tech / view camera and shifting the back.

Go to RRS web site

Really Right Stuff-Contact Us

and download the current catalog and then go to page 98. You don't need their equipment, but you can get the general idea. You will need a slide on a pano head so that you can move the camera back so it pivots on the nodal point.

The Pano head sits between the camera and the tripod head, and rotates. This is once you level the tripod the camera rotates level to the ground and your pano stays +/- straight.

Allow yourself about 1/3 of a frame overlap. Set the camera on manual, (focus, WB, exposure) so all the frames are exactly the same.

Make sure you process all the shots with the same settings, - do not crop any of the individual frames. Photoshop does a decent job of stitching. You will probably have to crop slightly when finished.

When stitched you can fine tune the finished image.

On my web site you can see some panos, (they are not landscapes but the technique is the same) on page two - Category "Shanghai Parks" the first 8 shots are panos. Also the Category "Shanghai Bund" the first 3 shots of the Bund are Panos (about 9 - 11 shots).

Enjoy - take your time (but not too much time once you start a series of shots) - stay level!! Again enjoy!!

Phil

ps. I have found the wide lenses are more problematic, in MF terms about 60mm and below. they are more difficult when shooting on the nodal point. Also moving subjects are more of a challenge.

Ed Hurst · Sep 2, 2013

alajuela · Sep 2, 2013

Ed HUrst said:
I have created many panos using the 645D and a pano head set-up from RRS mounted on a Cube and found, with care, that very good results can be achieved - even with multiple rows of shots and a wide angle lens.

I certainly feel that doing this with MF is worthwhile - compiling it all and realising the quality that is achieved as a result is very pleasing (though does require some computing power in some cases).

Here are some examples (some of which are done without a pano head - you don't always need to be too controlled if there isn't anything too close to the camera or the foreground detail isn't too 'geometric' in nature):

Nice shots Ed

Ed Hurst · Sep 2, 2013

Thanks Philip

Shashin · Sep 2, 2013

I do a great deal of stitched panos with the 645D handheld. I find only when you have near objects like being in a forest is a pano head needed.

My "pano head" is simply an Arca Swiss P0 and Manfrotto macro rail.

Ed Hurst · Sep 2, 2013

Absolutely Will - me too (on the handheld thing). Modern software does a super job with this in the right circumstances, even where the point of rotation is very approximate and stuff changes quite a bit between frames. I wouldn't do it in a forest or (as I was recently shooting) inside a large building with staircases, balustrades and linear patterns on floor tiles going off in all directions!

Don Libby · Sep 2, 2013

Short answer is yes. The slightly longer answer is with both a Df and tech camera with the tech camera being my primary.

Arrived in Jackson Hole WY for our yearly fall shoot and hope to get at least one more new panorama this year using the WRS and IQ160.

jlm · Sep 2, 2013

here's a tip:
shoot panos from left to right; then when you line up the images before merging they appear in the right order

Ed Hurst · Sep 2, 2013

Here's another one:
If shooting panos at sunset, shoot from the darkest part of the scene towards the lightest (i.e. towards the sun) - that way, the tendency of the scene to get darker (as the sun sets) works in your favour in terms of making the exposure closer to constant across the scene. With sunrise, do the opposite (shoot from the lighter part of the scene towards the darker part - i.e. away from the sun).
Probably only matters if you are doing quite a few shots in the sequence or each exposure is fairly long, but every little helps!

Don Libby · Sep 3, 2013

I shoot mine totally manual, turn off auto focus, shoot M, choosing the f/spot and shutter speed before hand. In other words turn anything that's auto off so each file is shoot the same.

Ed Hurst · Sep 3, 2013

Hi Don,

I do the same - all manual. But I still find it helpful to the stitch, if there is a stark difference in light levels around the scene, to use this approach to even things out a bit. Not a deal-breaker though.

All the best,

Ed

celina20 · Sep 3, 2013

"2) stitch using a tech camera and shift the back so you stitch inside the lens image circle."

When you make Panos this way, do you have to adjust focus in every picture you take ?

Thanks a lot

Luis

Don Libby · Sep 3, 2013

Ed you've got to be willing to break rules every once in a while. Knowing which rules and when helps in getting the final product. I remember doing a 5-shot pano 3-different settings and using 1-from each in the final product.

Ed Hurst · Sep 3, 2013

Absolutely Don - couldn't agree more... I often bracket sequences in the same way and have been known to select shots from different exposures around the scene. I just find it helpful to try and smooth things out like this as well - but in the end, at the processing stage, I do whatever is required. I simply view the shooting stage as getting me the material I need - as close to the final required outcome as feasible.

jagsiva · Sep 3, 2013

I do both. DF on RRS or Flat-stitch with RM3Di. You'd also be amazed at what the latest software like APG or even CS6 can do with hand-held pano shots, normal hand-held shutter speeds required of course.

Don't have a flat stitched image handy on my laptop right now, but here are a couple of pano stitches.Both files are massive, can print 6-7ft wide at 300dpi:

Hand-held - DF/IQ260 Achromatic/80LS

RRS Pano Head, D800 IR/Coastal optics 60mm

jagsiva · Sep 3, 2013

Incidentally, you'll see a common problem, lens vignetting in pano stitches. In the first image, you can see some vertical funnel type things. If I were properly processing these, it would take some work in PS.

Flat-stiching avoids some of this, but has other limitations like, number of frames you can have, not using the center of the lens, LCCs not matching etc.

Life is full of compromises.

alajuela · Sep 3, 2013

celina20 said:
"2) stitch using a tech camera and shift the back so you stitch inside the lens image circle."

When you make Panos this way, do you have to adjust focus in every picture you take ?

Thanks a lot

Luis

Hello Luis

You should not have to refocus, think of it this way -- You are now making a capture of a larger image circle, - you sensor just got larger.

Thanks

Phil

celina20 · Sep 3, 2013

Thanks a lot Phil. It's clear for me now.

Luis

Anyone Stitching Panos with a MF Digital Back?

New member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Workshop Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Member