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Thread: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

  1. #1
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Hiya!

    I've had some problems with glass for my P45+/Phamiya. Phase kindly had their UK sales manager lend me his 45mm T/S Hartblei/Phase for a forthcoming trip but it's badly out of whack. I've also been through two Mamiya 28Ds at my dealers, both also out of whack.

    I may be in Atlanta on my way to Savannah next week, Monday. I have a week off to go shooting and am currently weighing Savannah against Istanbul (go figure!) but I really want at least one wide lens for the Phamiya during the trip. So I wonder if Capture Integration in Georgia has either of the above mentioned lenses in stock and if so, what they cost in US $ including tax? Provided they're similar to UK prices I'd happily purchase there, assuming the lenses are 'in whack'!

    Am doing journey planning this evening.

    Any info gratefully received.

    Tim
    Last edited by tashley; 3rd January 2009 at 11:21.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Dave Gallagher's Avatar
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Tim,

    We have all had issues with some of the new glass. We have multiple 28's here in Atlanta if you want to do some tests. We also have the Hartblei T/S on the shelf. But my guess is that you are familiar with the quality of these two tools and your not going to find the holy grail at our place either.

    My suggestion would be to stop the madness and look at a Cambo RS with a 24mm XL Digitar for less than one 28mm AF lens. The quality upgrade is substantial. Please feel free to call us or just stop by to test any or all of the above.

    Dave Gallagher
    Capture Integration
    404-522-7662

  3. #3
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Thanks Dave - if I do indeed make it to Atlanta I would love to take you up on your offer but trust me, it's not a Holy Grail I'm after, just a lens that focusses. I'm picky but totally realistic. Here's a 100% crop from a shot with the Hartblei loaner I had - it shows a view which is at pretty much pure parallel orientation to the film plane taken at F5.6 with all the movements set to zero and MUP and tripod etc. It represents about the middle of the frame vertically, and from the right hand edge to about a third the way towards centre horizontally. I have ensured that there's no fault with sensor or back alignment by shooting with the standard 80mm lens and it is incredibly sharp.

    I hope it's clear merely that the lens is out of whack, and seriously. But I do know from the Reichmann review of this lens that he describes it as very sharp when no movements are used, so I remain very hopeful of getting a 'good' one!

    Thanks!

    Tim
    Attachment 10571
    Last edited by tashley; 8th July 2009 at 11:01.

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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Tim, hopefully that is from the left side. Otherwise that lens is seriously FUBAR.
    Carsten - Website

  5. #5
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Tim, hopefully that is from the left side. Otherwise that lens is seriously FUBAR.
    LOL - it is indeed from the left hand side. The right hand side is also soft, but like donut rather than souffle....

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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Tim,
    Is this sample shot from the Phase branded T/S just released or from an older Hartblei branded version?

  7. #7
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Quote Originally Posted by smhoer View Post
    Tim,
    Is this sample shot from the Phase branded T/S just released or from an older Hartblei branded version?
    It's a pre-release Phase Hartblei and I really wouldn't judge it from this shot - I post it to show what a decentred lens element looks like, not to show that the lens is a bad one in general. I expect a 'good' version to be pretty cool.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dave Gallagher's Avatar
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Tim,

    After looking at your crop, you do have a lens that is less sharp than normal expectations. You are welcome to test our lenses against it. I think that you will find that our older Hartblei will exceed the sharpness of this "Phase" branded T/S. I think it is important to state that there have not been any newly designed lenses shipped yet and as of today, we do not have a shipping date.

    When it comes to Michael's review of the lens, most of us will cut the lens a break when it ships for just $800. It was a unique product at a completely bargain price. Some small flaws will be accepted at that price. Now at $4000, this is not the case.

    Again, we look forward to seeing you on Monday.

    Dave Gallagher
    Capture Integration

  9. #9
    DougDolde
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    I'd not be shooting this lens at f/5.6. When I had one on my Contax 645 with Kodak Pro Back I always stopped down at least to f/8 and more likely f/16-22.

    Check out the resolution table on Hartblei's website:

    http://www.hartblei.com/lenses/lens_...ution%20Tables
    Last edited by DougDolde; 4th January 2009 at 09:56.

  10. #10
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    I'd not be shooting this lens at f/5.6. When I had one on my Contax 645 with Kodak Pro Back I always stopped down at least to f/8 and more likely f/16-22.

    Check out the resolution table on Hartblei's website:

    http://www.hartblei.com/lenses/lens_...ution%20Tables
    It is bad at any F stop and it's also asymmetrical, being much more fuzzy on the left than the right, as I stated.

    I have a realistic expectation of what this or any lens can do. It is out of whack, clearly and badly so. And without wanting to sound snippy I would point out that when my delivery 80mm 2.8D was fuzzy and I posted examples, plenty of people were keen to tell me that my expectations were out of line. They were wrong. I have a replacement and it is very sharp across the frame at most apertures and very much better than the first version.

    There is some serious resistance on this forum to the idea that a significant proportion of new lenses are delivered without proper QC and with sub-par performance. There may well be acceptable differences between a really good lens and an average one, but I really do know a 'Friday' lens when I see one. And if anyone seriously thinks that the crop I posted is normal and acceptable for a F3.5 lens stopped down to F5.6, when that lens retails for upwards of four thousand dollars, then I will gladly start a lens manufacturing plant, purchase a load of old lemonade bottles, and make myself a fortune!

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gallagher View Post
    Tim,

    After looking at your crop, you do have a lens that is less sharp than normal expectations. You are welcome to test our lenses against it. I think that you will find that our older Hartblei will exceed the sharpness of this "Phase" branded T/S. I think it is important to state that there have not been any newly designed lenses shipped yet and as of today, we do not have a shipping date.

    When it comes to Michael's review of the lens, most of us will cut the lens a break when it ships for just $800. It was a unique product at a completely bargain price. Some small flaws will be accepted at that price. Now at $4000, this is not the case.

    Again, we look forward to seeing you on Monday.

    Dave Gallagher
    Capture Integration
    Dave, you're very kind. I have hit a hitch that stops me travelling now, grrrr, but I really do appreciate your kind help and when I'm next in the area will bee-line to you. You guys have a very good reputation and I find your website incredibly useful.

    Thanks again,

    Tim

  12. #12
    Member Clawery's Avatar
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Dave, you're very kind. I have hit a hitch that stops me travelling now, grrrr, but I really do appreciate your kind help and when I'm next in the area will bee-line to you. You guys have a very good reputation and I find your website incredibly useful.

    Thanks again,

    Tim
    Tim,

    Sorry that you won't be able to stop in to CI this week. Hopefully you will be able to make it to travel to Savannah soon and possibly be able to stop in and visit us in Atlanta.

    Chris Lawery
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    It is bad at any F stop and it's also asymmetrical, being much more fuzzy on the left than the right, as I stated.

    I have a realistic expectation of what this or any lens can do. It is out of whack, clearly and badly so. And without wanting to sound snippy I would point out that when my delivery 80mm 2.8D was fuzzy and I posted examples, plenty of people were keen to tell me that my expectations were out of line. They were wrong. I have a replacement and it is very sharp across the frame at most apertures and very much better than the first version.

    There is some serious resistance on this forum to the idea that a significant proportion of new lenses are delivered without proper QC and with sub-par performance. There may well be acceptable differences between a really good lens and an average one, but I really do know a 'Friday' lens when I see one. And if anyone seriously thinks that the crop I posted is normal and acceptable for a F3.5 lens stopped down to F5.6, when that lens retails for upwards of four thousand dollars, then I will gladly start a lens manufacturing plant, purchase a load of old lemonade bottles, and make myself a fortune!
    Interesting. I wonder what's going on these days?

    Not until 5 years ago or so did I rarely run across an "out of whack lens" ...

    I had 7 Contax 645 lenses and every one was spot on. Never gave it a second thought. All my older R & M glass was perfect, never worried ever about any of my Zeiss V glass.

    In recent years, I've had a number of new Leica R lenses with various faults, 4 M lenses that were NG and had to go back for "calibration", a Rodenstock APO 120 macro view lens that couldn't achieve critical focus no matter how many shims we used (lens replaced), A bad Canon 50/1.2 (lens replaced.) ... and a few others from recent purchases.

    So far, knock on wood, all the H/C glass has been spot on ... but I do recall earlier versions of the Zoom where the front element fell out on a few people.


  14. #14
    Piet Gispen
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Hi all,

    I just returned to my supplier the copy which was delivered to me two days before Christmas with exactly the same quality problems. Pictures on the right were unsharp, in the middle ok andf on the left side even almost blurred at any aperture. I am curious what PhaseOne will say and do.
    Regards,

    Piet Gispen
    http://www.pietgispen.com

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Quote Originally Posted by Piet Gispen View Post
    Hi all,

    I just returned to my supplier the copy which was delivered to me two days before Christmas with exactly the same quality problems. Pictures on the right were unsharp, in the middle ok andf on the left side even almost blurred at any aperture. I am curious what PhaseOne will say and do.
    Regards,

    Piet Gispen
    http://www.pietgispen.com
    That's fascinating Pete - exactly the same as mine. Hmmm.... trying to think what aspect of the design might make that more than a coincidence...

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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    I don't see why Phaseone needs Hartblei when Mamiya already supplies lenses that tilt

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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Wow, I have to say that this sounds like Mamiya should work on their quality control to make sure not to loose good reputation.

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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Is Mamiya making this tilt-shift lens for Phase One? I thought it was made by Hartblei in cooperation with Phase One.

    Tim, one aspect which might make the two lenses act the same would be the same serial number? Or do you still have your copy?
    Carsten - Website

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    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Is Mamiya making this tilt-shift lens for Phase One? I thought it was made by Hartblei in cooperation with Phase One.

    Tim, one aspect which might make the two lenses act the same would be the same serial number? Or do you still have your copy?

    The 45 T/S is an original Harblei design that PhaseOne is working with them on improving many aspects of it , some being the the ergonomics, lens coatings and enhancements via Capture One 4.5/4.6.

    Lance
    Last edited by lance_schad; 5th January 2009 at 08:03.
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Ah, this will be the reason for the new Capture One 4.6 feature: "sharpen more on left"...
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Lance,
    Any news on release dates? I am looking forward to CI's testing of this new lens.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Ah, this will be the reason for the new Capture One 4.6 feature: "sharpen more on left"...
    Carsten, you're a very naughty boy! I thought the same thing privately but decided to say nothing!

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    Re: A stock question for the Capture Integration Boys

    Quality control costs money and time..

    a bunch of harvard MBA's working for McKinseys and similar 'organisations'..have reversed the equation above ...using simple algebra now...

    it is your money and your time which doesn't cost the manufacturers anything.

    Just another example of crapola with a lot of cheap cologne sprayed on top.

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