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New Nikon Medium Format Lens?

MB100

New member
I wouldn't get too excited, companies patent things as much as to stop others from making something (or the ability to sue someone if they do) as much as they do because they want to make the thing.
 

Ken_R

New member
Rumors based on patents have been going on for...forever. It would be awesome to see medium format gear from a company like Nikon but I would not count on it.
 

alajuela

Active member
They made really good large format lenes (like Fuji), some really hold up well on a 180 back. I just wonder if the market is big enough to support another player

Phil
 
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Swissblad

Well-known member
I wonder if the reason is that the D800 is pushing sensor limits, and the only way to increase quality is to increase sensor size?

If there is a new MF, I would expect a joint venture - the market is too small for a single company entry.

Curious times ;)
 

weinlamm

Member
Some years ago there where some rumors, that Nikon would go to MF. I don't really remember when exactly.

Perhaps this rumors will come back or they think about since the Canon-rumors about MF. :rolleyes:
 

MB100

New member
Read elsewhere and agree with that it's prob just for an awkward focal length T/S lens something to compete with Schneider 90mm (35mm) or 120mm (MFD) range.
 

yaya

Active member
Read elsewhere and agree with that it's prob just for an awkward focal length T/S lens something to compete with Schneider 90mm (35mm) or 120mm (MFD) range.
Or just an easy way to ensure that the centre (the part that covers the 35mm chip) is good...
 

BlinkingEye

New member
I wouldn't get too excited, companies patent things as much as to stop others from making something (or the ability to sue someone if they do) as much as they do because they want to make the thing.
.....or the ability to license the technology to those who want to make something. I think many folks would be surprised how much cash some tech companies make through licensing agreements.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Where to go from the D800? I'm sure Nikon considers a number of alternatives of which a Leica S kind of camera is one. Technology is already available to make an FX format camera with at least 200MP, but the lenses probably can't handle that kind of resolution. Increasing the size of the sensor, the mount and the lenses would be a very logical way of solving that problem.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
What problem? There is no great reason to keep increasing resolution. I would hate to have a 200MP sensor--my hard drive fills up fast enough with 40MP. And 40MP is plenty for printing on 44" roll paper.
 
It's hard to imagine Nikon developing a whole new system (and they are a system company) to enter a very small, very competitive, and very expensive market.

There are some slightly more credible rumors about canon doing something similar. But I believe these are just based on some deal between canon and a European MF sensor company. Which could mean just about anything.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
The "problem" is that more megapixels still sell, and if Nikon see that they will hit the ceiling with their current lens mount (which is much smaller than Canon's), they will have to look for a solution. New mounts seem to be the fashion nowadays. Only the last few years, we've seen Nikon 1, Leica S, Sony E, Canon EF-M, Pentax Q, Fuji X, m4/3, Samsung something and probably some that I can't remember.

The question is if it should be defined as medium format at all. If it becomes reality, the sensor size will most probably be similar to the Leica S, which is much closer to 35mm than traditional MF. It's not a "new market", just a kind of Super 35mm.

I have no idea if this will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. Already before the D3, it was rumoured that Nikon would bring out a new lens mount, since many doubted that the F-mount would be useable for 35mm sensors due to its size.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Nikon would bring out a new lens mount, since many doubted that the F-mount would be useable for 35mm sensors due to its size.
Who are the "many." I would hate to point out the obvious, but the F-mount has always been for a 35mm camera.

And while megapixels may certainly sell, there is more to cameras than marketing. Personally, megapixels are not my primary criteria for any camera. If you think megapixels are important, then you will come to another conclusion. In my experience so far, folks that have viewed 44" wide prints from a 22MP sensor and a 40MP have not remarked on any difference--all they see are really nice images.

Medium-format is defined as larger than 35mm in digital photography. The continued comparison to film formats is pointless. And when you consider that 6x4.5 was considered the "inferior" format in film, we just don't have sensors that are going to be large like a medium-format film cameras. The S is medium-format digital. Some feel it is not much different from 35mm, some do. Back in the silver age of film, some thought 6X4.5 was not much different from 35mm. This seems to lead to the conclusion that everyone has an opinion.

Mounts tend to be related to the camera and format. It would be really pointless to put a F-mount on a Nikon 1. Camera companies have been experimenting with mirroless cameras and naturally that will require new camera. They are not making new mounts as a fashion statement. The mirrorless market is just new. This happened in the beginnings of film when a whole host of formats and cameras were tried.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
The F-mount was designed for 35mm film cameras. The discussion that was going on at several camera fora at the time was if the different nature of the digital sensor would require a steeper angle of incident to avoid degraded quality in the corners, which is also one of the reasons why Olympus followed the principle of telecentric lenses and a smaller sensor for 4/3. I believe the problems Leica had with the M8 were related as well. I've also seen claims that this is the reason why Sigma DSLR cameras have a crop sensor in spite of having one of the widest lens mounts around, since the Foveon sensor is inherently handicapped when light hits at an angle, due to the depth of the sensor "bins".

The fact that Nikon managed to solve this doesn't necessarily mean that their options are limitless, and although you and I can live with less than 200MP (all of my cameras except two, the GH2 and the Nokia, are 12MP or less), there are some who can't and lots who think they can't. I print up to 3 meters wide from my 16MP files, but there are others who think they need 20MP for photos that will probably never be seen on a larger device than the mobile phone they were taken with (the new Sony Experia Z1 for example).

The reason why Nikon can make a profit (hopefully they do) on a camera like the D800 isn't because of professional photographers and advanced enthusiasts, but gearheads and well healed amateurs who want the "best" whatever the price is. To a certain extent, that goes for medium format as well. When I look at MF cameras for sale at the auction site, surprisingly many have seen very little use, which I assume is due to the fact that they were owned by people who didn't buy them to use them but to own them. Most of my high-end cameras are bought mint condition, 5-10 years old and 80-90% below sticker price.

Seen from that perspective, a larger sensor Nikon with a new mount would make perfect sense. Leica and Pentax are already active in that category, which I would rather call "High End DSLR" than MF. Since there is no large format digital, how can there be a medium format?
 

fotografz

Well-known member
It appears that more megapixels is increasingly becoming even more specialized than in past. A number of business articles have been pointing toward the need for larger sensors with a bit more modest meg count using larger pixels. Perhaps things like MF sized Nikon lens designs, or Canon rumors of MF development, are just hedges against the possibility of such a shift in the photographic market?

Many of us who experienced the "Fat Pixel" MF backs in past can attest to the "magical" IQ ... and while there were some short-comings back then, sensor technology has come a long way since.

Camera sales have been dismal and if that trend continues, something will have to change. Specialized gear alone cannot financially feed the corporate belly of the major players.

It was interesting how Apple positioned the new iPhone 5s camera advancements (and did it aggressively) ... a 15% larger sensor with larger 1.5 micron pixels rather than meg count ... the sample full res images from this smart phone camera on their site rivals demo images from some very expensive "real" cameras ... at least on screen where I'd bet at least 90% of all images shot today are ever shown ... and I'd bet of all images printed, most are 5X7 at best. If the P&S category isn't already dead, this iPhone and those like it, will pull the plug on the life-support.

The trick wil be getting a larger sensor into a smaller body ... A bigger Nikon, Canon or Sony larger than 35mm sensor camera won't cut it IMO. If they bring out a S2 sized camera it'll be to specialized.

BTW, I tend to agree with Jorgen ... old "size" terminology is fast becoming non-discriptive in the digital age. It was necessary as a reference point in past, but with each digital generation of users, the reference points dim because many never even shot with a film camera.

- Marc
 

Swissblad

Well-known member
BTW, I tend to agree with Jorgen ... old "size" terminology is fast becoming non-discriptive in the digital age. It was necessary as a reference point in past, but with each digital generation of users, the reference points dim because many never even shot with a film camera.

- Marc
Valid points Marc - I'd hate to be a camera designer these days!
Gone are the days of optimising a Nikon FM to make an FM2 etc.

The quote about film is totally valid - most modern users have no clue about different formats etc.

Interesting - but disconcerting - times for the industry.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I think it could be a very interesting time IF the camera companies have the guts to truly leave the past behind and innovate. However, we may not like it as we grip onto our expensive gear ... LOL!

- Marc
 
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