Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

[JeRuFo]

Live view is all good and well, but that is not going to help wedding photographers and people with similar shooting techniques. I think this new back will shine the light even brighter on the imperfections of the DF+. Amazing resolution is always second to getting the shot in the first place.
I think I'd still choose the Leica S over this new back if I were a wedding photographer and wanted to go MF, just for ease of use.

I think it'll shine in fashion style photography. The ISO will give it a lot of flexibility and the slight crop factor will help with the long lenses.

For landscape shooters it will probably still be the 260/80 unless you don't shoot wider angles.

 

[torger]

44x33mm is indeed a bit boring if you have a 54x41mm sensor today. I think it was what we expected though, and hopefully it's just a starting point rather than a limit of Sony's manufacturing process.

From a business perspective I guess it's a bit early to "kill off" the IQ260 and IQ280 with full-frame CMOS though even if it could be manufactured today, so I think we'll have to wait quite some time before we see full-frame.

 

[dougpeterson]

One more question: Is this the end of the dark frame when doing long exposures?

Dark frame is mandatory and automatic on the IQ250 like with the IQ260.

But man you should see the quality of the long exposure - we should have raws to share next week.

It also works very well at higher ISOs when doing long exposures. I've seen raws from minute long exposures at ISO800 that were just great.

 

[gerald.d]

At first glance, this back does have huge potential for creating 8K timelapse.

Capture time is rated at 1.2 frames per second. Would be interesting to know if it can do that all day long.

 

[dougpeterson]

At first glance, this back does have huge potential for creating 8K timelapse.

Capture time is rated at 1.2 frames per second. Would be interesting to know if it can do that all day long.

Bonus for timelapse: it takes less battery power .

I don't know if it can sustain 1.2 all day. But it is very fast, and was very much built to sustain long continuos data flows (i.e. live view). I'm sure your local dealer can help you test a long extended time lapse run. USB3 would be strongly recommended for this application (even if you also ran a FW800 cable in for power).

 

[jduncan]

Live view is all good and well, but that is not going to help wedding photographers and people with similar shooting techniques. I think this new back will shine the light even brighter on the imperfections of the DF+. Amazing resolution is always second to getting the shot in the first place.
I think I'd still choose the Leica S over this new back if I were a wedding photographer and wanted to go MF, just for ease of use.

I think it'll shine in fashion style photography. The ISO will give it a lot of flexibility and the slight crop factor will help with the long lenses.

For landscape shooters it will probably still be the 260/80 unless you don't shoot wider angles.

I believe that in most fashion situations (outside the runaway) the photographer is controlling the light. High iso above 400 or is simply a non issue in general.

I can't fantom Douglas Dubler working on iso 1600 on a regular basis.
Fashion photographers will setup the lighting, select the proper power levels and then shot: All according to plan. Then they will deliver the best posible image to the client,one that can be used from magazines to billboards and props.

Once upon a time high iso will be used. Even movement will be frozen by the packs not by using high iso and fast exposure.

Edited to add that this does not mean the back will not be a revelation in fashion. Phase is telling us that is has the best image quality full stop (I guess for a 50mpixel or less sensor).

Best regards,

J. Duncan

 

[MaxKißler]

...

I apologise, I hate to be the party pooper but if this is an example for ISO1600 then I guess "usable ISO6400" is a bit of an exaggeration. If you ask me, even ISO1600 is not usable at all at least not if you want to print larger than 30x40 (cm).

 

[gerald.d]

Bonus for timelapse: it takes less battery power .

I don't know if it can sustain 1.2 all day. But it is very fast, and was very much built to sustain long continuos data flows (i.e. live view). I'm sure your local dealer can help you test a long extended time lapse run. USB3 would be strongly recommended for this application (even if you also ran a FW800 cable in for power).

Battery power not really a problem as external batteries such as Paglinks can be used to run the back for weeks at a time if necessary

The "all day" was a bit flippant. If you want to shoot all day/all night, then you're not going to be doing it at 1.2 frames per second, because you want longer exposure than that at night.

Do you know at what exposure time the mandatory dark-shot kicks in? I'm hoping that it should be longer than the previous backs?

Kind regards,


Gerald.

 

[MaxKißler]

And I have to add, if I had to shoot fast paced high ISO stuff, I'd probably use a 35mm camera anyway.

 

[dougpeterson]

And I have to add, if I had to shoot fast paced high ISO stuff, I'd probably use a 35mm camera anyway.

5DIII and D800 both have very harsh buffer limits. You can burst off a series of shots very quickly but then the pace of shooting becomes sporadic, especially when tethering over USB.

IQ series sustains the same fast speed for very long periods of continuos shooting leading to predictable pacing. Most fashion shoots can't exceed the refresh of the strobe anyway. And tethering on digital backs is a more robust and primary means of working in any case.

 

[dougpeterson]

I apologise, I hate to be the party pooper but if this is an example for ISO1600 then I guess "usable ISO6400" is a bit of an exaggeration. If you ask me, even ISO1600 is not usable at all at least not if you want to print larger than 30x40 (cm).

The testing I've seen shows very close, likely modestly better performance than a D800 at both ISO1600 and ISO3200. I did not do much testing at ISO6400.

Perhaps your used to seeing higher ISO images processed with more noise reduction? I chose to leave it entirely off in the image I posted. We'll have raws you're welcome to play with to your liking next week.

 

[jvora]

Hello Chris :

The IQ250 does indeed use micro lenses and thus cannot/is not recommended to be used with wide-angle lenses on Tech Cameras !

Here is a quote from an email I have JUST received from Capture Integration

" . . . Phase One stated that the design of the sensor is very similar to the design of the P30+. What does this mean? Technical Camera use at wide angles is not an option with the IQ250. Extreme angles of light hitting a 5.3micron pixel covered by a micro lens create LCC issues. This might not be your medium format body if you want to use a Technical camera. But the testing will happen this week and we will get back to you on the results soon."

Hope this clears this aspect.

Jai

If it's true that the IQ250 features micro lenses similar to the P30, it won't be what the tech cam world would like it to be.

Chris

 

[torger]

Perhaps your used to seeing higher ISO images processed with more noise reduction? I chose to leave it entirely off in the image I posted. We'll have raws you're welcome to play with to your liking next week.

Are you sure it's no noise reduction? To me it it looks clearly like color noise was supressed in some way, with the resulting typical brownish pastel look, most visible in and around the eye. Is there noise reduction already made in the raw file?

I generally prefer the look when noise is kept so I was just about to ask for a crop without noise reduction, so I became a bit surprised by this response

Concerning ISO performance we should expect about the same as D800 as it's very similar technology. Usable or not is up to the photographer to decide. From a tech cam perspective high ISO gives a live view usable in broad light conditions, and that's important enough for me

 

[dougpeterson]

Should have been more specific - no luminance noise reduction.

Having 0 color noise reduction is nearly without sense in digital imaging.

 

[dougpeterson]

Here is a quote from an email I have JUST received from Capture Integration

" . . . Phase One stated that the design of the sensor is very similar to the design of the P30+. What does this mean? Technical Camera use at wide angles is not an option with the IQ250. Extreme angles of light hitting a 5.3micron pixel covered by a micro lens create LCC issues. This might not be your medium format body if you want to use a Technical camera. But the testing will happen this week and we will get back to you on the results soon."

I have to disagree with that conclusion.

In deeper conversations with Phase One R+D the answer will NOT be clear until further testing is done. That's rather why they mention they'll be doing testing I reckon. Light falloff is expected to be worse than with the IQ180 but color cast will likely be better. Again - testing is needed.

We'll likewise being doing testing.

There is no question Schneider wides are out of the question. But which Rodenstock lenses, with how much movement, can be used is still an open question. But one which we will answer soon .

 

[torger]

Should have been more specific - no luminance noise reduction.

Having 0 color noise reduction is nearly without sense in digital imaging.

I disagree

My experience from that is that when you apply color noise reduction the image looks more digital rather than less (the brownish pastel look we all know from low light shots with mobile phone cameras), and the color rendition as seen on a distance becomes worse, traded for a smoother look up close.

But yes, it's a matter of taste. I just prefer somewhat blotchy color noise instead of brownish pastel. With raw files available later we could play freely though to our own taste, woohoo

 

[torger]

There is no question Schneider wides are out of the question. But which Rodenstock lenses, with how much movement, can be used is still an open question. But one which we will answer soon .

Digaron-S 23 and 28 would be great if you can test (and 35 if those don't work out), feels like a more reasonble lenses to use for the 44x33 size than the Digaron-W 32mm.

 

[cly]

I'd be very happy to see the Schneider 43 and 60 as well

Chris

 

[dougpeterson]

I'd be very happy to see the Schneider 43 and 60 as well

Chris

We will test all the lenses we can. But I think it's very safe to say that all Schneider wides are out of the question.

I'm hoping 32HR with some modest movements will be ok. But I just don't know yet.

 

[MaxKißler]

The testing I've seen shows very close, likely modestly better performance than a D800 at both ISO1600 and ISO3200. I did not do much testing at ISO6400.

Perhaps your used to seeing higher ISO images processed with more noise reduction? I chose to leave it entirely off in the image I posted. We'll have raws you're welcome to play with to your liking next week.

No, it's not the amount of noise (or lack of) that is putting me off, it's the horrible loss of resolution when shooting at such high ISO speeds. I have a feeling that you can push the ISO of a CCD sensor in post and though increasing the amout of noise, resolution remains acceptable.

High ISO work is IMO not what an MF camera is supposed to be used for anyway. If this CMOS technology offers a better usability for tech camera work it's a benefit. If not I see no real development here...