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Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

hcubell

Well-known member
I'm a little surprised at the level of negativity about the new back. I'm sure that for it's target clientele - the MF DSLR pro user who wants a truly flexible MFDB solution - it'll do very well. That silent majority isn't typically hanging out on these forums.
:D
pdnonline has a review up of the IQ250. Read the summary of the Live View on the IQ250: not bad in a pinch, but not very useful for assessing sharpness, and certainly nothing that would make you forget your DSLR.
For $35k, many of us expect more, not less.
 

JonMo

New member
Lets see; Phase delivers the first MF CMOS back that has been promoted by forum posters as the new "holy grail" to save MF with modern ISO ect................................

And we have it received with derision for not being enough.

Wow. Tough crowd. :)

Don't worry, the golden cow of MF will show one day, followed by complaints that it is plated and not solid gold.

Granted I am still shooting with the obviously useless, archaic, too small (33x44) and just plain ridiculous with the release of the fabulously superior D800e, Aptus 65s; I have no room to talk.

I personally think this is pretty exciting. A true alternative, large sensor back in the word of medium format. Not just an "improved" CCD, but something new!

A catalysis for a new camera capable of harnessing the advantages inherent in the CMOS structure.

Sure beats adding fancy wooden handles to my WRS.
 

kapil Syal

New member
I'm probably in a minority of one
but - limited tech cam use (tilt/swing specially) and limited wides, means i'm still waiting for Santa ..
 

Zerimar

Member
I'd love to see this on a H2 with 100 f2.2 or with the Mamiya 80 f1.9 and used for some milky way landscape images
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
I have to disagree with that conclusion.

In deeper conversations with Phase One R+D the answer will NOT be clear until further testing is done. That's rather why they mention they'll be doing testing I reckon. Light falloff is expected to be worse than with the IQ180 but color cast will likely be better. Again - testing is needed.

We'll likewise being doing testing.

There is no question Schneider wides are out of the question. But which Rodenstock lenses, with how much movement, can be used is still an open question. But one which we will answer soon :).

This is not a conclusion, but more of an initial statement to let our clients know to keep their technical camera expectations low. The sentences following reflect that we are not concluded and will be doing our own testing. Keep in mind Dave Gallagher wrote this top 10 at the end of a 23 hour day on an airplane, so....impressed it was as cogent as it was.

We've actually slightly modified this statement, so it reads "may not be an option" just to be more clear in our position.

https://captureintegration.com/phase-one-announces-50mp-cmos-iq250/


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
....
Sure beats adding fancy wooden handles to my WRS.
Whoa, them's fighting words! :D

Actually, I think the IQ250 may be ideal for the photographer who isn't yet in the medium format digital fold, as opposed to those already with MFDBs. It seems to offer a broad range of capabilities. Overall, kudos to Phase and Hassy for offering something new. After all, having choices and different capabilities is what is important in photography, imho. I really don't want a jack of all trades (master of none).

Hey---where's the voice activated phone capability on the IQ250? It'd be sorta nice to be able to order a pizza and have it ready at the conclusion of my shoot. :p

I'm happy with my IQ180 and don't see myself moving from it for the long haul. But it's hard for me to be critical of the IQ250 when I haven't seen what it can do in practice, and not just on paper. I'm hoping we have an IQ250 at CI in Carmel to actually put through the paces on both a Phase DF+ and technical camera.

ken
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Hey---where's the voice activated phone capability on the IQ250? It'd be sorta nice to be able to order a pizza and have it ready at the conclusion of my shoot. :p


...


ken

See, you guys laugh about my Alpa iPhone viewfinder but guess what it can do? Yup, voice activated pizza delivery on demand! Ken, you need look no further :D

Ditto on the MFDB needs. The IQ250 looks great but for now the IQ260 fits my needs better since I'm not replacing all my wide technical camera glass to Rodies any time soon.

The thought of high ISO for night shooting is appealing but not &35k appealing unfortunately.
 

mbn

New member
The back it self is an nice piece of technology, imho!

Pair it with a DF+ and it's capabilities in terms of action and low light shooting are limited by the af system.

Pair it with a tech cam to use it's nice live view, and you will be limited by light falloff and color casts.

It's not made for me, but a good step forward, i think... maybe.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
I see the 250 as very much like the older P30 only on steroids. Much better resolution with the ability to shoot faster. This is very much a back for those who either don't know what a tech camera is or just doesn't care. Sure we might be able to shoot it on a tech cam with limitations. My general thought is that if you don't shoot with a tech cam and need the ability to shoot fast in low light (weddings come to mind) then this is a huge step up from a 35mm.

There's no way there's ever going to be a one-size-fits-all camera so we need to stop looking for it. If it fits your needs then go for it or look for something else that will fit most of your needs; notice I say needs not wants. I need a camera that'll all me to shoot in all weather and switch back and forth between platforms (645 & tech). I want to be 20 years younger and have more hair....
 

Shashin

Well-known member
As posted above, tough crowd.

What I am interested in is what price the Pentax 645D will be. Phase at $35K and Hasselblad close to that, if Pentax gives another 10K camera with lots of stuff people already have on their 35mm/APS DSLRs, I am not sure how that is going to bode for the market. Especially if the DF is not getting a face lift.

Interesting times.

Actually, I am really quite optimistic about MF CMOS sensors. Sony has a way of making good sensors and making them cheap. This is a first step.
 

ondebanks

Member
I'd love to see this on a H2 with 100 f2.2 or with the Mamiya 80 f1.9 and used for some milky way landscape images
Exactly!

I started working in low-light, low-noise digital imaging in 1992.

That same year, I started shooting medium format, with an M645 1000s and an 80/1.9. Astrophotography being my main passion.

I have waited TWENTY TWO YEARS for these technologies to finally come together!! :eek: Today could well be that day. :thumbup:

Ah...I wish I could be the one who takes that first IQ250, equatorially tracked, dark sky exposure or stack. I mean, I could really put it through its paces...I have a superb equatorial mount and direct access to very dark skies; see below for the sort of thing I do with a 5DII, and want to do in MFD. But alas, my wallet is not as deep as many around here, so that honour will fall to someone else. Just share the result with us, please, whoever you are.

Which is not to say that I don't have reservations about this new product. Is the IQ250 perfect? No, nothing is. OK then - rephrase the question - is it as good as I was hoping and reasonably expecting? No, it falls short there too. This is a Sony CMOS sensor which is a little larger in area than their 35mm FF sensors. It should be operated in exactly the same manner as those sensors, just scaled up accordingly. But it isn't! There is no provision to opt out of the in-situ dark frame, which just kills your productivity in the long exposure regime.

That is a huge disappointment, and it was a completely unnecessary design decision on the part of Phase One. :facesmack: Could I remind readers that even the primitive DSLRs and DBs of 10-15 years ago had a menu setting, which allowed the user to toggle between darks always off / darks on above a certain exposure time / darks always on. It's as simple as that.

Ray

 

tashley

Subscriber Member
My harsh take:
IF (like me) you prefer a 2:3 frame ratio, this camera has slightly higher pixel size than D800 or A7r, the same DR, and on the long end will give enough extra pixels to print 1-3" longer depending on print resolution. But you'll have to use it on a Phase body and with lenses that have no IS, not my idea of fun, or on a technical camera but not with you lovely landscape wides...

That's how it stacks up against my needs at first sight. I'm always willing to be persuaded otherwise...
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
This is not a conclusion, but more of an initial statement to let our clients know to keep their technical camera expectations low. The sentences following reflect that we are not concluded and will be doing our own testing. [...]

We've actually slightly modified this statement, so it reads "may not be an option" just to be more clear in our position.
Just for clarity I was disagreeing with Jai's conclusion. Your post was clear indicating more testing was required.

We can race each other to do the testing :) - everyone will win.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
You are being very patient, Doug. Good job.
You don't get to 2200 posts without developing tough skin! :ROTFL:

Product launches, whether for Phase, or for Apple, or for everyone else is always an interesting study in human dynamics. You will never, ever, find a product launch where the consensus is "it has everything we'd want, and the price is exactly what I want to pay".

Look back to early threads about the original iPhone announcement to see a study in a product which sold like bonkers, opened an entirely new market for a company, but which was predicted to fail for lack of any number of specific features or for being too expensive. (note: I'm NOT saying the IQ250 will be on the level of success of the iPhone, that would be silly - just using it as an extreme example on the spectrum of "chatter" vs "reality" at the launch of a product.)

As Abraham Lincoln said "You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time."

My only regret is posting a crop of one file processed to my taste - it's a poor way to show off the high-ISO quality on this back. We have D800 vs IQ250 high ISO comparisons which I find favor the IQ250, and in general I can tell you that I (and I can only speak for me) will be very happy using ISO6400 on the IQ250 for my wedding shooting. But it seems best at this point to wait until Capture One 7.2 is out, our demo unit is in the office for testing by us and our clients, and we can share raws rather than processed-to-taste very small crops from very large files.

I'm flying out shortly and will be on a plane for 16 hours, after which I will be spending some quality time with my wonderful girlfriend whom - 10 days in HK (a nice place, but obviously far from home) has left me longing for a nice afternoon walking through Central Park, cold though it might be.

I'll see you all after the weekend. We'll have our demo unit next week and I can't wait to see what some of the extraordinarily talented photographers on this forum will do with it.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Sounds interesting and knew it was coming but did not expect its features or non features. Have to wait to try it before commenting too much.
 
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