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Thread: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

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    Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    The Phase One IQ250 is real. That is to say the rumors of announcement are true, but more importantly the IQ250 starts shipping Monday!

    1. It starts shipping on Monday
    2. DT will be doing tech camera tests this coming week
    3. It really does look good at ISO6400
    4. It's a Sony sensor, Phase One everything else
    5. M, H, V, and C mounts available
    6. Capture Pilot for iOS7 also coming very soon
    7. Live View is available on LCD, 24fps
    8. Cost is $34,990 - Upgrades available
    9. It does long exposures, really well
    10. Same interface/chassis as other IQ2 backs
    11. GPS Logging (also coming to IQ260/280)

    More details can be found here: 11 Things to Know About the Phase One IQ250

    Questions?

    I'm glad to answer any questions. I've been in Hong Kong all week and have worked with a production IQ250, spoken to the engineers, and played with numerous raw files.

    Free Rental
    Digital Transitions will be giving away a free rental of the first IQ250 entering the country (must pickup/return in person to NYC office). Enter on our facebook page.

    Other Links:
    Phase One IQ250 Product Specs
    Phase One IQ250 Justine Ungaro Shoot (raw files soon)

    Quick Tease
    Many more images and tests to come. Here is one from our client Justine Ungaro:
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Well, now we know, and can stop the speculation.

    For me, it's all about the S/N at higher ISO. This definitely looks good. A worthy successor to the P30+.

    But more importantly, commercial CMOS has finally broken the 36x24 mm barrier. All bets are off now for how big it can get.

    Ray

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Is that a representation of 100% of the final image or of the live view? Hope it's the latter, looks awful.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    As a tech cam user, I'd like to know if in Live view mode, you can have the focus peaking feature simultaneously ?
    Would be really nice, to work with tilt !

    Any chance of seeing a video of the Live-view in action ? There is a little Demo in the LL review, but what I'm missing, is how precisely you can see focus in magnified live view mode. It seems this is much easier on Canon than Nikon, so I assume the LV implementation can be done in different ways. So a video of the live view, while turning (slowly) the focusing ring of the lens would be cool...

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by ondebanks View Post
    But more importantly, commercial CMOS has finally broken the 36x24 mm barrier. All bets are off now for how big it can get.
    16x20 Polaroid CMOS here we come!
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by miska View Post
    As a tech cam user, I'd like to know if in Live view mode, you can have the focus peaking feature simultaneously ?
    Would be really nice, to work with tilt !
    No simultaneous focus peaking. But the R+D guys do have several ideas they are experimenting with which could be added via firmware. What/if/when those ideas will come through is not something I can comment on.

    Quote Originally Posted by miska View Post
    Any chance of seeing a video of the Live-view in action ? There is a little Demo in the LL review, but what I'm missing, is how precisely you can see focus in magnified live view mode. It seems this is much easier on Canon than Nikon, so I assume the LV implementation can be done in different ways. So a video of the live view, while turning (slowly) the focusing ring of the lens would be cool...
    It's very good. I tried making a video while working with one this week, but the iPhone video kept refocusing, making it very hard to see the video on the LCD. I'm sure you'll see a video from us, or P1, or someone else soon.

    It can take a second to auto-adjust to changes in brightness, but after that is very fluid and smooth and has low latency.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    16x20 Polaroid CMOS here we come!
    That may not be as far as we think Doug... ;-) Of course its never really going to happen but this canon sensor is huge...Canon Global : News | News Releases

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    That may not be as far as we think Doug... ;-) Of course its never really going to happen but this canon sensor is huge...Canon Global : News | News Releases
    This but in CMOS.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    This but in CMOS.
    Can it shoot sports..

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Doug, do you know if the price of the 260 be affected by the release of the 250?

    Peter
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    imo, the biggest difficulty with tech camera use is determining focus. how does this new back address that?
    one would hope the live view has abilities like the sony A7?

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by Pemihan View Post
    Doug, do you know if the price of the 260 be affected by the release of the 250?
    No price changes on any new or refurbished Phase One products to announce today.

    I'd imagine some minor market changes for used phase one backs like the P30+ and P40+. But mostly from the increase in trade-ins we expect to receive from those trading up to the IQ250.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    imo, the biggest difficulty with tech camera use is determining focus. how does this new back address that?
    one would hope the live view has abilities like the sony A7?
    Live view focus, fast, and workable in low and bright light is included both tethered via USB and on the back's LCD itself when shooting untethered.

    Check out more details here: IQ250 Live View.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Doug, please take a break answering questions and put the back on a tech cam with a moved wide angle lense (Schneider!) and then come back and report. :-)

    If it's true that the IQ250 features micro lenses similar to the P30, it won't be what the tech cam world would like it to be.

    Chris
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    I think the 12th thing that people need to know is that this is a 33x44 sensor

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    The Phase One IQ250 is real. That is to say the rumors of announcement are true, but more importantly the IQ250 starts shipping Monday!

    1. It starts shipping on Monday
    2. DT will be doing tech camera tests this coming week
    3. It really does look good at ISO6400
    4. It's a Sony sensor, Phase One everything else
    5. M, H, V, and C mounts available
    6. Capture Pilot for iOS7 also coming very soon
    7. Live View is available on LCD, 24fps
    8. Cost is $34,990 - Upgrades available
    9. It does long exposures, really well
    10. Same interface/chassis as other IQ2 backs
    11. GPS Logging (also coming to IQ260/280)

    More details can be found here: 11 Things to Know About the Phase One IQ250

    Questions?

    I'm glad to answer any questions. I've been in Hong Kong all week and have worked with a production IQ250, spoken to the engineers, and played with numerous raw files.

    Free Rental
    Digital Transitions will be giving away a free rental of the first IQ250 entering the country (must pickup/return in person to NYC office). Enter on our facebook page.

    Other Links:
    Phase One IQ250 Product Specs
    Phase One IQ250 Justine Ungaro Shoot (raw files soon)

    Quick Tease
    Many more images and tests to come. Here is one from our client Justine Ungaro:
    It's very good news in: it shows investment and progress in the medium format space. The issue is sensor size.

    I am wondering if it will compite with the next generation Nikon.

    It's difficult to justify the price structure when using the same technology and with a sensor that is not that big and the technology is the same.

    Let see how the gamble pays out.

    Best regards,
    J. Duncan

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    One more question: Is this the end of the dark frame when doing long exposures?

    Chris

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Live view focus, fast, and workable in low and bright light is included both tethered via USB and on the back's LCD itself when shooting untethered.

    Check out more details here: IQ250 Live View.
    Nice start with CMOS, but a 1.3X crop factor? No thanks.
    Sony is apparently selling the same sensor to all of the medium format makers, so Leica and Pentax will be releasing models as well. This may be the right size sensor for the Leica S2.

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    I think the 12th thing that people need to know is that this is a 33x44 sensor
    I've added that to #4 where I say it's a sony sensor.

    Great suggestion!
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Another shout out for tech cam testing. The LV video I saw at LuLa is much much better than the current fuzzy view implementation. If the crop sensor can handle tech wides with the extra movement opportunities with existing glass it could be very interesting. Let's see what testing turns up.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Live view is all good and well, but that is not going to help wedding photographers and people with similar shooting techniques. I think this new back will shine the light even brighter on the imperfections of the DF+. Amazing resolution is always second to getting the shot in the first place.
    I think I'd still choose the Leica S over this new back if I were a wedding photographer and wanted to go MF, just for ease of use.

    I think it'll shine in fashion style photography. The ISO will give it a lot of flexibility and the slight crop factor will help with the long lenses.

    For landscape shooters it will probably still be the 260/80 unless you don't shoot wider angles.

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    44x33mm is indeed a bit boring if you have a 54x41mm sensor today. I think it was what we expected though, and hopefully it's just a starting point rather than a limit of Sony's manufacturing process.

    From a business perspective I guess it's a bit early to "kill off" the IQ260 and IQ280 with full-frame CMOS though even if it could be manufactured today, so I think we'll have to wait quite some time before we see full-frame.

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by cly View Post
    One more question: Is this the end of the dark frame when doing long exposures?
    Dark frame is mandatory and automatic on the IQ250 like with the IQ260.

    But man you should see the quality of the long exposure - we should have raws to share next week.

    It also works very well at higher ISOs when doing long exposures. I've seen raws from minute long exposures at ISO800 that were just great.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    At first glance, this back does have huge potential for creating 8K timelapse.

    Capture time is rated at 1.2 frames per second. Would be interesting to know if it can do that all day long.

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    At first glance, this back does have huge potential for creating 8K timelapse.

    Capture time is rated at 1.2 frames per second. Would be interesting to know if it can do that all day long.
    Bonus for timelapse: it takes less battery power .

    I don't know if it can sustain 1.2 all day. But it is very fast, and was very much built to sustain long continuos data flows (i.e. live view). I'm sure your local dealer can help you test a long extended time lapse run. USB3 would be strongly recommended for this application (even if you also ran a FW800 cable in for power).
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by JeRuFo View Post
    Live view is all good and well, but that is not going to help wedding photographers and people with similar shooting techniques. I think this new back will shine the light even brighter on the imperfections of the DF+. Amazing resolution is always second to getting the shot in the first place.
    I think I'd still choose the Leica S over this new back if I were a wedding photographer and wanted to go MF, just for ease of use.

    I think it'll shine in fashion style photography. The ISO will give it a lot of flexibility and the slight crop factor will help with the long lenses.

    For landscape shooters it will probably still be the 260/80 unless you don't shoot wider angles.
    I believe that in most fashion situations (outside the runaway) the photographer is controlling the light. High iso above 400 or is simply a non issue in general.

    I can't fantom Douglas Dubler working on iso 1600 on a regular basis.
    Fashion photographers will setup the lighting, select the proper power levels and then shot: All according to plan. Then they will deliver the best posible image to the client,one that can be used from magazines to billboards and props.

    Once upon a time high iso will be used. Even movement will be frozen by the packs not by using high iso and fast exposure.

    Edited to add that this does not mean the back will not be a revelation in fashion. Phase is telling us that is has the best image quality full stop (I guess for a 50mpixel or less sensor).

    Best regards,

    J. Duncan
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    ...
    I apologise, I hate to be the party pooper but if this is an example for ISO1600 then I guess "usable ISO6400" is a bit of an exaggeration. If you ask me, even ISO1600 is not usable at all at least not if you want to print larger than 30x40 (cm).

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Bonus for timelapse: it takes less battery power .

    I don't know if it can sustain 1.2 all day. But it is very fast, and was very much built to sustain long continuos data flows (i.e. live view). I'm sure your local dealer can help you test a long extended time lapse run. USB3 would be strongly recommended for this application (even if you also ran a FW800 cable in for power).
    Battery power not really a problem as external batteries such as Paglinks can be used to run the back for weeks at a time if necessary

    The "all day" was a bit flippant. If you want to shoot all day/all night, then you're not going to be doing it at 1.2 frames per second, because you want longer exposure than that at night.

    Do you know at what exposure time the mandatory dark-shot kicks in? I'm hoping that it should be longer than the previous backs?

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    And I have to add, if I had to shoot fast paced high ISO stuff, I'd probably use a 35mm camera anyway.
    http://maxkissler.com/
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKißler View Post
    And I have to add, if I had to shoot fast paced high ISO stuff, I'd probably use a 35mm camera anyway.
    5DIII and D800 both have very harsh buffer limits. You can burst off a series of shots very quickly but then the pace of shooting becomes sporadic, especially when tethering over USB.

    IQ series sustains the same fast speed for very long periods of continuos shooting leading to predictable pacing. Most fashion shoots can't exceed the refresh of the strobe anyway. And tethering on digital backs is a more robust and primary means of working in any case.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKißler View Post
    I apologise, I hate to be the party pooper but if this is an example for ISO1600 then I guess "usable ISO6400" is a bit of an exaggeration. If you ask me, even ISO1600 is not usable at all at least not if you want to print larger than 30x40 (cm).
    The testing I've seen shows very close, likely modestly better performance than a D800 at both ISO1600 and ISO3200. I did not do much testing at ISO6400.

    Perhaps your used to seeing higher ISO images processed with more noise reduction? I chose to leave it entirely off in the image I posted. We'll have raws you're welcome to play with to your liking next week.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Hello Chris :

    The IQ250 does indeed use micro lenses and thus cannot/is not recommended to be used with wide-angle lenses on Tech Cameras !

    Here is a quote from an email I have JUST received from Capture Integration

    " . . . Phase One stated that the design of the sensor is very similar to the design of the P30+. What does this mean? Technical Camera use at wide angles is not an option with the IQ250. Extreme angles of light hitting a 5.3micron pixel covered by a micro lens create LCC issues. This might not be your medium format body if you want to use a Technical camera. But the testing will happen this week and we will get back to you on the results soon."

    Hope this clears this aspect.

    Jai


    Quote Originally Posted by cly View Post

    If it's true that the IQ250 features micro lenses similar to the P30, it won't be what the tech cam world would like it to be.

    Chris
    Jai Vora • jaivora.com • +91 982-136-0044

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Perhaps your used to seeing higher ISO images processed with more noise reduction? I chose to leave it entirely off in the image I posted. We'll have raws you're welcome to play with to your liking next week.
    Are you sure it's no noise reduction? To me it it looks clearly like color noise was supressed in some way, with the resulting typical brownish pastel look, most visible in and around the eye. Is there noise reduction already made in the raw file?

    I generally prefer the look when noise is kept so I was just about to ask for a crop without noise reduction, so I became a bit surprised by this response

    Concerning ISO performance we should expect about the same as D800 as it's very similar technology. Usable or not is up to the photographer to decide. From a tech cam perspective high ISO gives a live view usable in broad light conditions, and that's important enough for me

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Should have been more specific - no luminance noise reduction.

    Having 0 color noise reduction is nearly without sense in digital imaging.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by jvora View Post
    Here is a quote from an email I have JUST received from Capture Integration

    " . . . Phase One stated that the design of the sensor is very similar to the design of the P30+. What does this mean? Technical Camera use at wide angles is not an option with the IQ250. Extreme angles of light hitting a 5.3micron pixel covered by a micro lens create LCC issues. This might not be your medium format body if you want to use a Technical camera. But the testing will happen this week and we will get back to you on the results soon."
    I have to disagree with that conclusion.

    In deeper conversations with Phase One R+D the answer will NOT be clear until further testing is done. That's rather why they mention they'll be doing testing I reckon. Light falloff is expected to be worse than with the IQ180 but color cast will likely be better. Again - testing is needed.

    We'll likewise being doing testing.

    There is no question Schneider wides are out of the question. But which Rodenstock lenses, with how much movement, can be used is still an open question. But one which we will answer soon .
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Should have been more specific - no luminance noise reduction.

    Having 0 color noise reduction is nearly without sense in digital imaging.
    I disagree

    My experience from that is that when you apply color noise reduction the image looks more digital rather than less (the brownish pastel look we all know from low light shots with mobile phone cameras), and the color rendition as seen on a distance becomes worse, traded for a smoother look up close.

    But yes, it's a matter of taste. I just prefer somewhat blotchy color noise instead of brownish pastel. With raw files available later we could play freely though to our own taste, woohoo

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    There is no question Schneider wides are out of the question. But which Rodenstock lenses, with how much movement, can be used is still an open question. But one which we will answer soon .
    Digaron-S 23 and 28 would be great if you can test (and 35 if those don't work out), feels like a more reasonble lenses to use for the 44x33 size than the Digaron-W 32mm.

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    I'd be very happy to see the Schneider 43 and 60 as well :-)

    Chris

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by cly View Post
    I'd be very happy to see the Schneider 43 and 60 as well :-)

    Chris
    We will test all the lenses we can. But I think it's very safe to say that all Schneider wides are out of the question.

    I'm hoping 32HR with some modest movements will be ok. But I just don't know yet.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    The testing I've seen shows very close, likely modestly better performance than a D800 at both ISO1600 and ISO3200. I did not do much testing at ISO6400.

    Perhaps your used to seeing higher ISO images processed with more noise reduction? I chose to leave it entirely off in the image I posted. We'll have raws you're welcome to play with to your liking next week.
    No, it's not the amount of noise (or lack of) that is putting me off, it's the horrible loss of resolution when shooting at such high ISO speeds. I have a feeling that you can push the ISO of a CCD sensor in post and though increasing the amout of noise, resolution remains acceptable.

    High ISO work is IMO not what an MF camera is supposed to be used for anyway. If this CMOS technology offers a better usability for tech camera work it's a benefit. If not I see no real development here...

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKißler View Post
    High ISO work is IMO not what an MF camera is supposed to be used for anyway. If this CMOS technology offers a better usability for tech camera work it's a benefit. If not I see no real development here...
    I guess everyone's needs are different.

    I've been doing this for six years now and the top three feature complaints I've heard from people who were considering buying a back were:
    1) crappy LCD
    2) poor ISO performance
    3) no live view

    Phase One basically eliminated #1 with the IQ series. It's that good.

    Phase One improved #2 and #3 with the IQ series. They got good ISO1600 and ok ISO3200, but only at reduced resolution. They got Live View but it's fairly slow, and doesn't handle low or contrasty light very well.

    With the 250 #2 and #3 are very well handled.

    Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you - if you don't need or care about ISO then it won't mean anything to you. I was just trying to explain why I think I'll continue getting the massive volume of "I'm interested" email that I've seen in the last hour.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Doug - appreciate that you're juggling lots of questions from multiple places at the moment, but if I may ask again in case you missed it...

    At what shutter speed does the dark-frame kick in?

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    I can't wait to see this sensor in a Pentax body. I shoot at ISO1600 quite often--I did not know I wasn't supposed to do that, sorry. If I can get two more stops, then that is very interesting. Even without the small increase in resolution, the noise should not be a problem. Well done Phase.

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Huh? What's this comment from the LuLa review mean??

    "Limited only by the attached camera, with a Phase One DF camera continuous 1.2 FPS shooting is possible. It will be interesting to see what frame rates are possible with next generation cameras."

    So the back can capture at a greater frame rate? It's the DF that's limiting it to 1.2FPS?

    I wonder what it can do on an FPS...

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Doug - appreciate that you're juggling lots of questions from multiple places at the moment, but if I may ask again in case you missed it...

    At what shutter speed does the dark-frame kick in?
    Dark frames are done at all shutter speeds. When possible it reuses the dark frame - like with all other IQ/IQ2 backs. At some point they kick in on every frame instead of as needed. This is not done at one specific shutter speed. I suggest you work with your dealer to test your specific use case (temperature, frame rate, use of LCD or not, ISO) to see when/where you're able to consistently reuse the dark frame rather than have it be taken anew every time.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Huh? What's this comment from the LuLa review mean??

    "Limited only by the attached camera, with a Phase One DF camera continuous 1.2 FPS shooting is possible. It will be interesting to see what frame rates are possible with next generation cameras."

    So the back can capture at a greater frame rate? It's the DF that's limiting it to 1.2FPS?

    I wonder what it can do on an FPS...
    No idea on the FPS, but yes, faster frame rate expected on other bodies.

    Maybe upwards of 2fps on a 500 series (where no electronic communication is required at all). Though you'll have a hard time cranking the winder that fast!
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Dark frames are done at all shutter speeds.
    All? You sure about that?

    They're certainly not on the IQ180. It kicks in at something around the 1.5 second mark.*

    Kind regards,

    Gerald.

    *Hmm. Actually, now you've got me wondering whether they do exist below that and it's just that I've never noticed it because you don't see the timer counting up and down...

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    All? You sure about that?

    They're certainly not on the IQ180. It kicks in at something around the 1.5 second mark.

    Kind regards,

    Gerald.
    Your IQ180 applies a dark frame to all exposures. At short speeds it creates it at the first frame of a given shutter speed and uses it for following images at the same shutter speed. Set a speed of 1/500th, put the body on continuous, and hold the shutter. There will be a larger gap between [frame 1] and [frame 2] than between all subsequent frames. That gap was the creation of a dark frame. As you go to longer exposures you'll find that it occasionally gaps in continuous shooting because the back requires a new dark frame for that shutter speed - basically any time the sensor's firmware thinks it's temperature has changed enough to require it. As you get to even longer shutter speeds you'll find it does it every time regardless of anything else.

    Notably at exposures like 0.5 seconds you're unlikely to notice the capture of the dark frame as it only takes 0.5 seconds. It's really when you're at 2+ seconds when it becomes hard to miss.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Well I'll be darned.

    You live and learn!

    Thanks Doug.

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 - 11 things you need to know, and Q&A

    Large sensors is both good and bad for low light photography. Good thing that you get more area to gather light, bad thing you need to stop down more to get reasonable depth of field. Probably the 36x24mm sensors with f/1.4 lenses is a better tradeoff for low light photography than what we have here, although 44x33 is not *that* much larger, but the availability of fast lenses is limited.

    This widens possibilities though and we've not yet seen where this new capability will bring medium format.

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