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Thread: Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

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    Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

    Hey Everybody,

    It's been a wild few days around here between new products, an ice / snow storm that shut down our city and an open house, so I am sorry for not following up as quickly as I had hoped. We put together our next test for you and finally have it ready! We took the IQ250 out to test long exposure as well as the ISO in low light. A bar lit by candlelight seemed an excellent choice. Take a look at our findings and let us know what you think!

    IQ250 by candlelight



    More tests to come after the weekend.
    Last edited by anthonyfesta; 31st January 2014 at 14:18. Reason: Adding photo
    Anthony Festa, National Tech Support Manager,www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
    TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar | Direct: 770.558.7557 | National: 877.217.9870

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

    Very nice!
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Very nice!
    Thanks Don! These were fun to put together. We will have more coming after the weekend.
    Anthony Festa, National Tech Support Manager,www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
    TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar | Direct: 770.558.7557 | National: 877.217.9870

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

    This looks like it has noise reduction applied, would it be possible to also see the images with NR zeroed out? or at least to know the amount of NR being applied?

    Also, can you include similarly framed images from other backs/cameras?

    Hoping I'm not asking for too much.

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    This looks like it has noise reduction applied, would it be possible to also see the images with NR zeroed out? or at least to know the amount of NR being applied?

    Also, can you include similarly framed images from other backs/cameras?

    Hoping I'm not asking for too much.
    We didn't bring any other camera's for this test. As for NR, off hand I don't remember what is applied. I think default for the image through software, but I would have to check Monday when I get back to the office as I do not have the files with me.

    We'll have more comparisons a bit later on, so we'll follow up with those.
    Anthony Festa, National Tech Support Manager,www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    MFDB: Phase One/Leaf-Mamiya/Hasselblad/Leica/Sinar
    TechCam: Alpa/Cambo/Arca Swiss/Sinar | Direct: 770.558.7557 | National: 877.217.9870

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

    If it was the defaults in Capture One, you may find that they are robbing you a bit. I find that even on base iso 50 images, the Luminance and color sliders need to be taken back a bit. Odd's are the single pixel noise slider is very close to 75% also.

    The key to high iso noise to me is:

    Can I get a shot that still holds color and saturation levels that are acceptable but not see banding and the large color splotches.

    What you are getting at 1600 for sure can be possibly cleaned up and stay at full resolution, as it's pretty impressive for sure. It also shows me that this chip will be able to use 400, to 800 in moderate light (cloudy days) to allow for a faster shutter speed to help with subject motion blur and stay at full resolution instead of having to pixel bin. One thing that is definitively a move in a great direction.

    Paul

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

    Side by side tests with other cameras are a must, specially with the Nikon 800E and or Sony A7R. You can use something like THIS to make it easier.
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    Re: Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

    While it might seem important, I really don't get the notion of side by side comparisons. This either stands on its own feet or it fails. Looking at the article and the other images I was very impressed at the level of detail from a lit candle. The shot of the "models" sitting at the table were to me very impressive.

    While it may be nice to see how a particular camera stacks up against another in the end it would be very hard to include all of them. That's where individual testing comes in. If the results warrant a closer look then the end user needs to set up a demo so they can see for them selves how it compares to their system, only then can you or should you make a intelligent decision.

    I know I sound cranky and in some ways I guess I am. However when I look at buying something I look at what the system can do by itself then based on that I decide if I want to test it against a known system (one which I currently use).

    As said above, based on the information provided in the write up knowing that JPEG images on the web are crappy when compared to raw files in my computer the 250 looks interesting. However (there's that word again) my shooting needs are such that I don't need this back. It comes down to a want vs need thing and I'll be sticking with my 160.

    Okay I am cranky today....
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
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    Tucson AZ
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    If it was the defaults in Capture One, you may find that they are robbing you a bit.
    Paul,

    We also found that the defaults for Capture One 7.2 Beta were much too aggressive. In fact we backed them out more than 50% from the default. My guess is that they were still set for the dalsa sensors and not reworked yet for this new Sony Sensor.

    Importantly, we have included the raw EIP's in our blog post. C1 Pro 7.2 should be live sometime early this week. When it is, you will be able to download the EIP's yourself and work these files. We also have conducted other testing and will upload those raws as well. So very soon everyone will be able to tweak these as much as you want.

    If you have any tests that you would like us to conduct we will jump on them. We have the Nikon D800 in rental and we will be getting one back in later in the week. Stay tuned for that 1600 ISO test side by side by the end of the week.



    Dave Gallagher, CEO, Capture Integration
    Capture Integration
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    Direct: 770.846.5223 | National: 877.217.9870

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

    Dave:

    Capture One seems to have strong defaults for all the current Dalsa backs also, as I often back off the noise slider with the 260/160 files I work and you can definitely see the details improve.

    Kudos to your team for the testing they have done so far, gives a lot of merits to CI and the Phase One brand.

    This is shaping up to be a great new sensor.

    The one thing that should follow from the 36MP DR Sony is that the range of a shot at base iso of 100 should be pretty huge. With the D800 (hate to bring it into the discussion but it's the only camera with a sensor in this class) I have found that the you can easily pull up the shadows as much as 2.5 stops. So you can exposure with room to control highlights but still know you won't lose the shadows.

    The P45+ was terrible here, and always required multiple exposures one for the highlights and others for the shadows. If you tried to pull up the shadows, they were muddy and mush.

    The 260 does some better here allowing for maybe 1.75 stops, I was hoping for more like 2.

    With a Tech camera, especially where you are shifting, only needing to take 1 shot per stitched frame is great.

    I feel your testing already shows that the 250 will easily work in ISO ranges of 400 and 800, and in a pinch 1600 all at full resolution. This is a huge improvement for sure.

    Hopefully the follow to the 60MP chips will follow suit of the 250 but be a full sized chip.

    Paul

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    While it might seem important, I really don't get the notion of side by side comparisons. This either stands on its own feet or it fails. Looking at the article and the other images I was very impressed at the level of detail from a lit candle. The shot of the "models" sitting at the table were to me very impressive.

    While it may be nice to see how a particular camera stacks up against another in the end it would be very hard to include all of them. That's where individual testing comes in. If the results warrant a closer look then the end user needs to set up a demo so they can see for them selves how it compares to their system, only then can you or should you make a intelligent decision.

    I know I sound cranky and in some ways I guess I am. However when I look at buying something I look at what the system can do by itself then based on that I decide if I want to test it against a known system (one which I currently use).

    As said above, based on the information provided in the write up knowing that JPEG images on the web are crappy when compared to raw files in my computer the 250 looks interesting. However (there's that word again) my shooting needs are such that I don't need this back. It comes down to a want vs need thing and I'll be sticking with my 160.

    Okay I am cranky today....

    How about just include for comparison, the DB's in that range of MP and price then?
    Side by side comparisons are absolutely key when making a camera purchase. Utilizing controlled settings under various lighting, aperture, shutter combinations are essential for determining a DB's performance. Then one can assume its performance in the field. Also, what's the min. and max. ambient temp for long exposures? Glossy articles aren't always objective. I do like the fireworks photo, was any strobe or flash used? Wedding shooters may not have the advantage of 4 min. exposures or shooting landscape when it's 5 below zero f.
    Last edited by johnnygoesdigital; 3rd February 2014 at 08:36.

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    Re: Phase One IQ250 Low Light ISO & Long Exposure

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    If the results warrant a closer look then the end user needs to set up a demo so they can see for them selves how it compares to their system, only then can you or should you make a intelligent decision.
    Yes that's good in theory. In practice one might not have a good local dealer that can make this type of demos.

    I contacted the local Swedish Hasselblad and Phase dealer and was interested in trying out the CFV-50 for my tech cam. It was evident within minutes into the call that they sell ~0 tech cameras (the pro business in Sweden is like that, V format is dead too, at first they did not know if they even had a demo back, but they found it) and I knew a lot more about the product and how it works on a tech cam than they did, despite I haven't even laid my hands on it yet, thanks to information I've gathered on the net. They did suggest an IQ250 (despite I have Schneider wides) and/or drop my Linhof and go for the 645DF+ or an Hassy H instead.

    Therefore I find testing on the net and forums like this so very valuable, this way I can become a very informed user which is required in this part of the world to be able to make informed decisions. You can't trust the dealer to help you if your needs are different from their mainstream customers.
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