Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 41 of 41

Thread: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, USA
    Posts
    358
    Post Thanks / Like

    Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    As a former 4X5 shooter, I am finding that I miss the involvement with the "process" with respect to my Leica S2 and have been seriously considering relieving myself of the Leica, heretical thought though that may be, in favor of a technical camera, the absence of a dark cloth and loupe not withstanding. Given that I have no close photographic friends to chat with I worry that I may well end up much as did Aesop's dog and his reflection and have come here in hope of some rational and helpful insight.
    Although the S2 reliably produces beautiful, high quality images, it often feels like little more than a snap shot camera from a users perspective; clearly the ultimate goal is to produce the best images possible, but as an amateur the experience has value as well. My critique is not of the S2 but more so of myself and my obsolescent cravings.
    I wonder if I am alone on this or if others have had similar misgivings. I am primarily a landscape and occasional architectural photographer and have a more than adequate Canon system for when I wish to work fast.
    It would be helpful to hear if anyone has any thoughts to share on this topic before I make a move that I may well regret, dropping my bone as it were..humm,perhaps that may be a bit more Freudian than what I had in mind

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,502
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    There is nowhere in Florida you could rent a system?

  3. #3
    Senior Subscriber Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Englewood, CO
    Posts
    2,489
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1248

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Douglas...I've also been on the journey of discovering the best solutions for my photography. So far, the best systems for me are the combination of tech cam and MF DSLR. The tech cam is more challenging and you may find it is very entertaining to use. It takes me a long time to start to appreciate the IQ especially on the wide side. The most enjoyable part is "challenging" as I feel the tech cam always has a lot of rooms to grow.
    Renting is not enough as you may not find out right away you like it, lots of sunrise/sunset you will miss. It will take months. Just buy a body with one lens and learn how to use it. It's nothing like 4x5 either and you may be frustrated the same as I did as liveview (before the IQ250) does not work as well.
    PL-Don't buy IQ250 (limitation of movement, that's why you want to buy tech cam, and the uncertainty that color of CMOS would be as good). I would wait for the next generations. The P1 IQ 140, 160, 260 are much better choices. I used to own the IQ180 but I've found out the IQ260 is much more enjoyable to use (long exposure and less LCC) although I've always missed the IQ180 with DSLR.
    Although I am far from being expert, please email me any time. I can tell you a lot what could go wrong

    Best
    Pramote
    Last edited by Landscapelover; 1st February 2014 at 12:51.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    565
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Coming from 4x5, and now in the age of the CMOS sensor (just!) - giving us True Live View (TLV), which in turn affords the possibility of an experience similar to that you've exerienced with large format film - I would think long and hard about which system to buy into today for two reasons:

    1. Focussing

    There are basically three pancake-style cameras in use with MFDBs today: A/S RM3d/i, the Alpa 12 series, and the Cambo WRS.

    The A/S RM3d/i is a remarkable camera, engineered from the ground up to solve one principle problem - that of repeatedly focussing a view-camera lens accurately. It does this admirably - nothing else comes close to be honest. However, the focus pitch on the RM3d/i is so fine, that - as with groundglass focussing - with TLV it will be more of a hindrance than a help (unless some sort of TLV with focus masking is invented). With TLV, the RM3d/i essentially becomes a solution looking for a problem.

    The same could be said of the HPF rings on Alpa's, but since many of the Alpa's can be shot hand-held, they still have a role if that's your shooting style. Plus, the system as a whole (or, at least, a significant part of it) isn't designed around the issue of focussing.

    Cambo has no fine-focus system. With TLV this isn't a problem - the focus pitch of the Schneider and R/S helicals is fine for nailing focus via live view. N.B. You can attach HPF rings to some lenses in Cambo mounts.

    2. Movements

    All three popular pancake-style camera systems from A/S, Alpa and Cambo have rise/fall (to varying degrees) and some form of tilt/swing available, but for tilt/swing in particular it's a real mixed bag. Tilt or swing (but not both simultaneously) on all lenses with the RM3d/i; tilt or swing with some lenses on the Alpa, tilt and swing with some other lenses on the Alpa, no tilt or swing with some lenses on the Alpa; tilt and swing with some lenses on the Cambo, on other lenses with the Cambo, neither. The positioning of the tilt/swing/focus controls on all of these sytems do not fall (naturally) to hand when looking at the DB screen - unlike tilt/swing/focus on a view camera - the latter of which were obviously positioned in order to be operated with the user looking at the rear of the camera.

    This is why, with one eye on the future, I would look long and hard at the A/S ML-2 and Linhof Techno. With TLV, these (albeit tripod-based - but you say you shoot landscape, so that's not an issue) cameras will come into their own and will give you far, far more flexibility - in terms of tilt/swing/rise/fall/shift than any of the current crop of pancake-style cameras. TLV on an ML-2 or Techno will get you really close to the functionality of a LF view camera with controls for swing, tilt, rise/fall and focus that naturally fall to hand whilst observing the screen of the DB - no contorted reaching round the front to fiddle with a helical and small knobs whilst keeping one eye on the screen of the DB.

    So if your work demands shooting from a tripod, and you're buying for the next few years, I'd get a Linhof Techno for outdoors/studio or an ML-2 (or perhaps M679cs) for studio only - with TLV these cameras will really start to sing. That said, even today they can hum a pretty neat tune, regardless of whatever is attached to the rear.

    Jim
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  5. #5
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA
    Posts
    2,275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Capture Integration rents cameras and backs: https://captureintegration.com/renta...t/#largeformat

    They have a branch in Miami.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    51
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by pesto View Post
    As a former 4X5 shooter, I am finding that I miss the involvement with the "process" with respect to my Leica S2 and have been seriously considering relieving myself of the Leica, heretical thought though that may be, in favor of a technical camera, the absence of a dark cloth and loupe not withstanding. Given that I have no close photographic friends to chat with I worry that I may well end up much as did Aesop's dog and his reflection and have come here in hope of some rational and helpful insight.
    Although the S2 reliably produces beautiful, high quality images, it often feels like little more than a snap shot camera from a users perspective; clearly the ultimate goal is to produce the best images possible, but as an amateur the experience has value as well. My critique is not of the S2 but more so of myself and my obsolescent cravings.
    I wonder if I am alone on this or if others have had similar misgivings. I am primarily a landscape and occasional architectural photographer and have a more than adequate Canon system for when I wish to work fast.
    It would be helpful to hear if anyone has any thoughts to share on this topic before I make a move that I may well regret, dropping my bone as it were..humm,perhaps that may be a bit more Freudian than what I had in mind

    Hi Doug,

    How you been?

    I currently have a Cambo RS system with ground glass and loupe set, 28mm HR Rodenstock, 70mm TS Rodenstock, Phase One IQ260 Digital system, and would be more than glad to show you how it compares to your current capture system. I also have other lenses we can discuss but it will give you a real sense of how the system works from setup, exposure, processing.

    I will take you thru the workflow, creating LCC files and applying them to your RAW files and processing , just like you did with your previous Phase One P40+ system.

    I also be glad to share with you a collection of images created with tech cameras and medium format backs from Phase One, Leaf, and Hasselblad.




    Chris Snipes
    Business Development Manager
    Calumet Photo
    1001 N Federal Hwy
    Fort Lauderdale, FL 33304
    [email protected]
    813-335-2473 Cell

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    51
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Landscapelover View Post
    Douglas...I've also been on the journey of discovering the best solutions for my photography. So far, the best systems for me are the combination of tech cam and MF DSLR. The tech cam is more challenging and you may find it is very entertaining to use. It takes me a long time to appreciate the IQ especially on the wide side. The most enjoyable part is "challenging" as I feel the tech cam always has a lot of rooms to grow.
    Renting is not enough as you may not find out right away you like it, lots of sunrise/sunset you will miss. It will take months. Just buy a body with one lens and see practice. It's nothing like 4x5 either and you may frustrated the same as I did as liveview does not work as well.
    PL-Don't buy IQ250 (limitation of movement and it's still uncertain the color of CMOS would be as good). The P1 IQ 140, 160, 260 are much better choices. I used to own the IQ180 but I've found out the IQ260 is much more enjoyable to use (long exposure and less color LCC) although I've always missed the IQ180 with DSLR.

    Best
    Pramote


    Pramote is right, how you been Pramote?

    Doug,

    Pramote has so much experience with just about every lens on many different backs. He also has the Df+ system you also owned and can help you understand how the Tech camera produces images that are frankly, on the next level. He has also owned both the older and newer generation of Cambo Tech cameras and can really shed some light on the benefits each have.

    You will not be disappointed with the increase of image contract, texture, and edge sharpness when you see the files.


    Chris Snipes
    Business Development Manager
    Calumet Photo
    1001 N Federal Hwy
    Fort Lauderdale, FL 33304
    [email protected]
    813-335-2473 Cell

  8. #8
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    These are all great responses to Doug.

    I would add that there is a big difference when shooting with a technical camera as it is closer to the 4x5 contemplative approach to subjects and opportunities and as involving as LF shooting too if you want it to be. I've taken to using my ground glass on the Alpa a lot more and if you want that head under the dark cloth experience then it's an option too. However, the smaller ground glass of MF digital is a LOT smaller and finicky compared to 4x5 as you may remember it.

    I would agree that you need to try it for a while to decide what moves you. Capture Integration runs some great workshop events where you can shoot for several days with technical camera systems and backs (GetDPI too). These are a good way to get hands on in the field with as much or little instruction/support as you want. They are also a LOT cheaper than jumping in and deciding later that it's not for you after all - and admittedly it isn't for everyone.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  9. #9
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32 31' 37.06" N, 111 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    I remember when I first discovered the WRS. Within a couple months I sold all my Mamiya gear including body and lenses and shoot exclusively with the WRS before adding. M9 which lasted less than 2 years. I now have the best of both worlds shooting both a DF and WRS by just switching the back.

    I remember looking at the S2 when they were first released then it hit me that it's a closed system, meaning there's no way I could remove the back to place on another system. That in in self killed the idea.

    As much as you like the S2 the only option is to rent a system which in itself may be a great way to try all the various types of tech cameras and digital back out there.

    Don
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    398
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    The Leica S / S2 is a SLR Digital Camera. A really good one but its an SLR. If that is what you want / need then I would look into it. A technical camera system is much closer to what a 4x5 is. They can provide a lot of lens options and movements (front and rear). Best to work with a dealer. I use DT in NY. (sponsor of this site)

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    26
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_R View Post
    The Leica S / S2 is a SLR Digital Camera. A really good one but its an SLR. If that is what you want / need then I would look into it. A technical camera system is much closer to what a 4x5 is. They can provide a lot of lens options and movements (front and rear). Best to work with a dealer. I use DT in NY. (sponsor of this site)

    You make it seem as if 4 cm 5 cm and a technical camera are not one and the same. They can not be. But they also can be.

  12. #12
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by pesto View Post
    As a former 4X5 shooter, I am finding that I miss the involvement with the "process" with respect to my Leica S2 and have been seriously considering relieving myself of the Leica, heretical thought though that may be, in favor of a technical camera, the absence of a dark cloth and loupe not withstanding. Given that I have no close photographic friends to chat with I worry that I may well end up much as did Aesop's dog and his reflection and have come here in hope of some rational and helpful insight.
    Although the S2 reliably produces beautiful, high quality images, it often feels like little more than a snap shot camera from a users perspective; clearly the ultimate goal is to produce the best images possible, but as an amateur the experience has value as well. My critique is not of the S2 but more so of myself and my obsolescent cravings.
    I wonder if I am alone on this or if others have had similar misgivings. I am primarily a landscape and occasional architectural photographer and have a more than adequate Canon system for when I wish to work fast.
    It would be helpful to hear if anyone has any thoughts to share on this topic before I make a move that I may well regret, dropping my bone as it were..humm,perhaps that may be a bit more Freudian than what I had in mind
    Why did you buy the S camera in the first place? How extensive is your S kit?

    How do you use the S now? Do you use lighting? If not, why?

    What is at the core of your misgivings about jettisoning the S kit in favor of a totally different type set-up? You have admitted to these misgivings, what are they?

    IMO, creative needs come first, then the gear is fitted to that as well as possible.

    Most any system can be as simple or as complex to use as we want it to be. The S system can be expanded to meet other needs. For a while, I did exactly that using the H to S adapter and some Hasselblad H options in your case the HTS/1.5 Tilt-Shift adapter may be of interest. Here's my report on it:

    S2 and HTS/1.5

    The above is somewhat limited, and won't compare to a full blown tech system with a big bad digital back, but brings additional functionality to what you already have, and can revert to the DSLR form when needed.

    I'm of the school that if you go for T/S control, a rear standard is mandatory The folks at Dale have explored the S on an Arca Swiss 6X9 to good effect:

    Arca Swiss 6x9

    view camera adapter for S2?

    Perhaps contacting David Farkas at Dale can shed further light on any progress they made in this direction?

    All said, nothing will produce results like a good tech camera with the best optics available using the right MFD back and you most certainly will be engaged in the process a labor intense process I engaged in with a Rollie Xact-2 and Hasselblad mega back using a sliding ground glass adapter which now sits gathering dust due to changing photographic interests so, I should just sell it.

    If I has sold a S2 kit to get the above, I would have regretted it no end mostly because I probably couldn't get back into the S system financially these days. That is something to keep firmly in mind IMO.

    - Marc
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Technical camera shooting process is the sole reason I started with MF. Image quality is important, but if it had only been about that I would have shoot my landscapes with a D800E or Sony A7r which I think reaches an adequate quality level and resolution.

    So you're not alone that think the enjoyment of the shooting process is important. I wanted to shoot large format with movements and all, but not mess with film. Tech cam is then the answer.

    There are many tech cameras out there though and not all are as enjoyable to shoot with I think. Some have rather limited movements.

    I also find "silly" things like 4:3 sensor format, symmetrical distortion free lenses and large image circles to be important for the enjoyment of the process. I hate to stitch, which I think is a destroyer of shooting process enjoyment, the carefully with movements framed one shot image is my thing. The LCC part is a bit of a turnoff in terms of process, but I've learned to live with that and I'm no longer disturbed by it. Accepting LCC is what makes the great large format optical designs possible.

    I use a Linhof Techno which is basically a scaled down 4x5" field camera. I have a thorough review of it on the net if you're interested. The challenge with it is ground glass focusing, if you can cope with that you have a very flexible package, which is quite economical too if you want many lenses thanks to low cost lens mount. A multi-lens also becomes lighter and more compact than many of the alternatives.

    I have six lenses in my system and want 2-3 more. Being able to use a suitable focal length instead of having to crop or compromise perspective is for me also an important part of the enjoyment of the shooting process. I do crop quite often though like going from 4:3 to 5:4 (especially in portrait mode) or doing some minor adjustment in framing, but I'm generally very close to the finished product right there on the ground glass when sliding in the back and pressing the shutter, and that's important for me.

    As soon as I start with huge cropping or stitching I feel "why don't I just get a stitching head and a D800E", I've done some stitching work with a proper head and DSLR and it's very effective, high res, reproject perspective to simulate movements etc, but far from as organic and enjoyable to work with as with the one-shot perfectly framed image out in the field.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Back tilt has been dropped in field tech cameras. The Linhof Techno does not have it either. The reason is that to keep the high level of parallelism that these smaller formats require in a light compact camera it's very difficult to have tilt/swing both front and back.

    It's less important with back tilt in landscape than in product shoots. If you happen to need it occassionally you can achieve it by tilting the camera up the desired amount, tilt lens to level and shift the back up. The Techno have an extra bubble level to help out in this process. Too cumbersome if you use it often like in product shoots, but okay if you use it occassionally in landscape. So I would not worry about missing back tilt. In the studio though, I would want to have a full-featured view camera with movements of front and back like an Arca-Swiss M-Line or Linhof M679.

    As an amateur enjoyment of the hobby comes first. If having the "wrong" gear in terms of quality or creativity or whatever still makes shooting more fun, it's the right gear for you.

  15. #15
    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    807
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    This is an option,and of course Sinar is now owned by Leica,so can can expect further integration..
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    This is an option,and of course Sinar is now owned by Leica,so can can expect further integration..
    Those options are nice for the studio but not very practical in the field. Heavy to carry and slow to set up as you may need to split the body in order to pack it. Light in the landscape is a fleeing opportunity, so having a reasonably speedy setup process is important I think. I have a friend that actually uses a Sinar 4x5" with digital back to shoot some occassional landscape, but he does not do it often due to that it's a bit too cumbersome to bring and set up.

  17. #17
    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    807
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Those options are nice for the studio but not very practical in the field. Heavy to carry and slow to set up as you may need to split the body in order to pack it. Light in the landscape is a fleeing opportunity, so having a reasonably speedy setup process is important I think. I have a friend that actually uses a Sinar 4x5" with digital back to shoot some occassional landscape, but he does not do it often due to that it's a bit too cumbersome to bring and set up.
    True,it's no lightweight ....

  18. #18
    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    807
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by pesto View Post
    As a former 4X5 shooter, I am finding that I miss the involvement with the "process" with respect to my Leica S2 and have been seriously considering relieving myself of the Leica, heretical thought though that may be, in favor of a technical camera, the absence of a dark cloth and loupe not withstanding. Given that I have no close photographic friends to chat with I worry that I may well end up much as did Aesop's dog and his reflection and have come here in hope of some rational and helpful insight.
    Although the S2 reliably produces beautiful, high quality images, it often feels like little more than a snap shot camera from a users perspective; clearly the ultimate goal is to produce the best images possible, but as an amateur the experience has value as well. My critique is not of the S2 but more so of myself and my obsolescent cravings.
    I wonder if I am alone on this or if others have had similar misgivings. I am primarily a landscape and occasional architectural photographer and have a more than adequate Canon system for when I wish to work fast.
    It would be helpful to hear if anyone has any thoughts to share on this topic before I make a move that I may well regret, dropping my bone as it were..humm,perhaps that may be a bit more Freudian than what I had in mind
    "It would be helpful to hear if anyone has any thoughts to share on this topic before I make a move that I may well regret, dropping my bone as it were..humm,perhaps that may be a bit more Freudian than what I had in mind "

    I have also thought about trying a tech cam,but would be very reluctant to sell my S gear, One reason is the glass is excellent and the body feels like a 5Dmk3,which makes it quite unique compared to the other medium format system's (Pentax is also light but I believe no leaf shutters)

    The other is that the S glass keeps getting more expensive and buying back in would be tough.

    Have you considered keeping your S gear and selling the canon to buy a used P45 and tech cam..??

    Rob

  19. #19
    Senior Member alajuela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Shanghai / Miami
    Posts
    552
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    124

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    There are many fine answers here about the “joys” of the process with a TECH camera whatever brand.
    The complete process will not be the same as a 4X5 ground glass, BUT if you like to compose images, then this is a close to heaven you will get in a portable set up.
    It is easy to get lost in the process of capture for its own sake; I find this truly a joy, regardless if the image is “print worthy”., that is a separate chapter.

    Only you know if you have to sell your fine S2. hope not.

    My advice is, if you can afford it, then you owe it to yourself. Tech is GREAT !!!

    PS. Although not as portable as a TECH a F Metric A/S is also very cool!!
    Last edited by alajuela; 2nd February 2014 at 05:46. Reason: To be clear

  20. #20
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Hi,
    before I owned the S I had a Sinar 33MP back with a Hy6 and with an Sinar Artec.
    I enjoyed using the Artec when I used it but I didnt use it very often, and I also liked the Hy6 but I saw various advantages of the S (for my use) and couldnt justify the S AND a tech cam+digital back.

    If we talk pure IQ I believe Leica offers such nice wides that the difference in IQ caused by the lens alone shouldnt be the point any more.
    The S has the advantage that it is weather proof and quite portable, I bring it in a backpack and can carry it for some hours.

    I would lie if I said I would not miss the process of using a techn camera sometimes. But I believe that if I have enough time to setup a tech cam and if I do this as a non-proffessional I can also do the REAL thing and use large format for those occasions.
    My plan is to use 5x7 and to mostly do analog contacts plus, and I even plan to eventually get into wetplates for some things.

    So my suggestion: if you liked 4x5 why you dont keep the S and add a 4x5.

    On the other side why not rent a tech cam as others suggested, and check it out.
    Only you know which photos you take how often and which camera works best and which you enjoy most.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  21. #21
    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Posts
    807
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Hi,
    before I owned the S I had a Sinar 33MP back with a Hy6 and with an Sinar Artec.
    I enjoyed using the Artec when I used it but I didnt use it very often, and I also liked the Hy6 but I saw various advantages of the S (for my use) and couldnt justify the S AND a tech cam+digital back.

    If we talk pure IQ I believe Leica offers such nice wides that the difference in IQ caused by the lens alone shouldnt be the point any more.
    The S has the advantage that it is weather proof and quite portable, I bring it in a backpack and can carry it for some hours.

    I would lie if I said I would not miss the process of using a techn camera sometimes. But I believe that if I have enough time to setup a tech cam and if I do this as a non-proffessional I can also do the REAL thing and use large format for those occasions.
    My plan is to use 5x7 and to mostly do analog contacts plus, and I even plan to eventually get into wetplates for some things.

    So my suggestion: if you liked 4x5 why you dont keep the S and add a 4x5.

    On the other side why not rent a tech cam as others suggested, and check it out.
    Only you know which photos you take how often and which camera works best and which you enjoy most.
    What about shooting film with a tech cam or 4x5 if its not used that often...?

  22. #22
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    What about shooting film with a tech cam or 4x5 if its not used that often...?
    For shooting film I would say a tech cam is too expensive and offers relativly small film-size for the money.
    You dont need all that precision for film IMO.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  23. #23
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    971
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Back tilt has been dropped in field tech cameras.
    Actually Alpa has back tilts if you mount the adapter behind the camera. With std and tele lenses you can have both lens and back tilt; you need 2 tilt adapters for that, which gets expensive. But I agree it is a rarely used feature, and not something that would enter into most people's decision criteria.

    Jim made some great points about how Live View will change the landscape (hehehe...) of how we use these tools and the value of various design features. I still like the small-package benefits associated with some technical cameras like the Factum, STC, and small Cambo.

    Pesto, I would urge you to thoroughly test the shooting process with a technical camera before you go and sell the S2. That Leica is a wonderful system, and it would be a real shame if in 2 or 5 years you wanted to get back into that. Tech cameras are very different, but a great pleasure for many of us.

    Dave
    How glorious a greeting the sun gives the mountains! - John Muir

    davechewphotography.com

  24. #24
    Senior Subscriber Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Englewood, CO
    Posts
    2,489
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1248

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Douglas,

    As an owner of both Leica S2 and Tech cameras, I would strongly recommend you not to sell the Leica yet. I know you can afford to have both systems.
    Tech cam has clear advantage on the wide side but less on the tele side and the 120/180mm are just fantastic. You may be disappointed to find out the IQ is not as different as much as you would think of. Sometimes it is much more pleasant to use the S2. Today it's 5 degrees F in Denver and I am going out shooting now with my Leica S2 and will leave the tech cam at home.

    Have a nice day!

    Pramote
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  25. #25
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Carmel/Tucson
    Posts
    2,355
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by alajuela View Post
    ....

    My advice is, if you can afford it, then you owe it to yourself. Tech is GREAT !!!

    ....
    Quote Originally Posted by Landscapelover View Post
    Douglas,

    .... I would strongly recommend you not to sell the Leica yet. I know you can afford to have both systems.
    ....
    Have a nice day!
    Dante's influence is hard to suppress.

    Honestly, it's hard to beat the flexibility/convenience of having two systems. I have no love for my Canon DSLRs, but they are like a necessary evil. The Phase DF and Cambo work great with being able to swap the same MFDB. In much the same vein, (insert grimace here) your S2 is like the DF and a tech camera is just calling your name. There is much to be said about the enjoyment of the photographic process---and nothing beats a tech camera in this regard.

    If you can make it to an event like Capture Integration in Carmel (less than three weeks!)---that's your best bet to try a wide variety of camera systems, MFDBs, and lens combinations in a single sitting over several days.

    ken

  26. #26
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,502
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Every camera that has lens movements has back movements. The back movements are simply limited by the front ones.

  27. #27
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,502
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    The monorail flatbed thing is really personal preference and availability. I prefer flatbed designs, but I have used monorails in the field with great success. The smallest, most compact view cameras have, in fact, been monorail designs, of which the Sinar P series cameras are not examples.

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, USA
    Posts
    358
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    A heart felt thank you to all who have so thoughtfully responded to my post, I never expected that I would have received so many and such insightful replies, you have given me quite a plateful too ruminate upon.

    I do agree that my best course at this point would be to get my hands on a tech camera of one stripe or another ( at this point the Arca Swiss RM3di is very attractive based upon specs and concept, but …???) and see how we get along although I wonder if a couple of days of shooting will tell the tale; I expect that there will be a rather steep learning curve with these cameras.

    My fond best regards to all,

    Douglas Benson

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    The thing with tech cams is that they are very specialized, not as all-around as a SLR type of camera. Being specialized it's more important that the particular feature set they have match well with your own taste. As you've already seen in this threads there are many different approaches to tech cams as one would expect.

    I wouldn't say that the learning curve of using a tech camera is particularly steep if you know camera movements from the 4x5" days, but choosing a system of the ones that are out there so you get one that suits your particular taste and style the best can be quite tricky.

    I would suggest that you read about these cameras as much as you can off this forum and other sources, in addition to trying them out. When you read forums you get ideas of things to look for so you can make a better evaluation when you test the system for yourself. For example, the RM3Di has a very fine focusing ring. Some love it, some think it's way overkill and ALPA's focusing ring is a better tradeoff between speed and precision.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  30. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    26
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    4 cm 5 cm... Inches! It's 10.2 cm 12.7 cm, obviously.

  31. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, USA
    Posts
    358
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    The thing with tech cams is that they are very specialized, not as all-around as a SLR type of camera. Being specialized it's more important that the particular feature set they have match well with your own taste. As you've already seen in this threads there are many different approaches to tech cams as one would expect.

    I wouldn't say that the learning curve of using a tech camera is particularly steep if you know camera movements from the 4x5" days, but choosing a system of the ones that are out there so you get one that suits your particular taste and style the best can be quite tricky.

    I would suggest that you read about these cameras as much as you can off this forum and other sources, in addition to trying them out. When you read forums you get ideas of things to look for so you can make a better evaluation when you test the system for yourself. For example, the RM3Di has a very fine focusing ring. Some love it, some think it's way overkill and ALPA's focusing ring is a better tradeoff between speed and precision.
    Hello Torger,
    Thanks for your thoughts. This truly has proven to be a great resource , everyone has been very helpful.

    Douglas

  32. #32
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    198
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    The back movements are simply limited by the front ones.
    You can say the same about girlfriends
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  33. #33
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Every camera that has lens movements has back movements. The back movements are simply limited by the front ones.
    Well ... that's not entirely true when it comes to tilts.

    Certainly it doesn't matter for rise/fall/shifts alone. Rear tilts will have a different effect on foreground/background perspective and the opportunity for foreground looming than front axis tilts at the lens or front of the body.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  34. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    83
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Just found this posted during the search and it may be interesting to see.
    It is the smart Flex system, mounted on top of the Sinar P2 Base.
    as the camera plate is adjustable.
    the camera image plane can be adjust to matching with the Swing and Tilt
    axis of the P2 camera base.

    Sunchai.

  35. #35
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA
    Posts
    2,275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Won't the bellows interfere with the grip when hand holding?

  36. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    446
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    I prefer a digital view camera because I like movements and stay mostly in the studio. If I weren't so averse to the dark room I would probably just use the 8 x 10 Sinar. Mind, I have never taken the view camera outside. Too lazy.

    I lack the ability to shoot and run with any camera so, for me, taking quick shots is DSLR territory. However, I rarely care about those pictures. Useful souvenirs.

    I suppose that is about where you are with the S2. Your DSLR handles souvenirs and you want S2 or better image quality for the shots you care about. Sadly, you miss the technical involvement that 4 x 5 gave you. I say sadly, because you will spend a bunch of money. If shift and front tilt for landscapes will solve the boredom, stick with the tech camera. If you really miss full movements and your interests are changing towards static studio work, look for something with standards. My 2 cents.

  37. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Little Rock AR
    Posts
    1,927
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Seeing as how the rig dwarfs the S or S2, what is the weight? I can't imagine carrying that around very far.

    Looks like a great way to allow shift with excellent lenses however.

    Paul Caldwell

  38. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    398
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Seeing as how the rig dwarfs the S or S2, what is the weight? I can't imagine carrying that around very far.

    Looks like a great way to allow shift with excellent lenses however.

    Paul Caldwell
    Looks functional for longer lenses but doesn't look very convenient. A Sony A7R combined with an Arca M2 offers about the same image quality as the Leica and since the camera has no mirror and excellent live view it is a MUCH more usable rig. Money no object of course a PhaseOne back is even more ideal. The IQ250 has amazing live view and should work great with longer tech lenses.

  39. #39
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Such a setup is only useful for macro and long lens work. Anything normal or wide is a non starter.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

  40. #40
    Senior Member alajuela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Shanghai / Miami
    Posts
    552
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    124

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Hi

    If this is what is being considered (not tech), my opinion is nothing bests Arca Swiss, the F-Line metric, the MF and the M line are just perfect.

    my 2 cents

    Phil

  41. #41
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    83
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Leica S2 vs Tech Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Won't the bellows interfere with the grip when hand holding?
    The set up are using Apo-digitar 4.5/90mm mounted on Cambo recess lens board.
    And Hasselblad Distagon 4/40mm lens.
    Both of set up have focus at infinity (the shortest bellow)
    The red line showing the difference space of both set up.
    The space is ok and the bellow is flexible. The bellow will not be conflict to camera with this set up.
    Sunchai.



Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •