PENTAX 645D II

[peterv]

I guess it's about the price ...

 

[Ken_R]

The 645D was never really a big success mainly thanks to the D800E. The 645D just does not have much better image quality overall than the Nikon (dynamic range is even a touch less on the Pentax). Specially for landscape situations. It is one of the reasons I sold it. For working with people it is awesome though because of the good AF, superb handling and different color and generally shallower dof (has a different look even at mid apertures) although I much prefer the look of the Dalsa sensor in the IQ backs.

The 645D II changes this being that it has a 50MP sensor and Live View. So it separates itself nicely from the D800E for Landscapes. Should give up nothing to the Nikon in regards to Dynamic Range, High Iso / Long Exposure performance (if anything it might be better) and functionality (thx to Live View!) and of course 50mp is a significant increase from 36mp. Not huge, but significant enough, at least for marketing purposes and it should do very well against the D800E in side by side tests.

Of course, with the IQ250 you can use the amazing Rodenstock Lenses, Schneider LS lenses and with an FPS just about any lens made and extract even more performance out of the 50mp sensor. Digital Backs are just much more versatile, if you wish to explore and invest in more gear. It is just a very different beast. I also love how well the IQ works tethered and on supervised shoots with the iPad and CapturePilot.

The 645D felt like a big DSLR, which is not necessarily a bad thing in a lot of situations.

In the meantime I have been extremely satisfied with my IQ160. The image quality is just so good that it continues to just amaze me every time I open the files and work on them. I also love the large size of the chip. It just has that feel of a larger format when shooting people. Not quite to the 6x7 levels which I was used to with my Pentax 67's but pretty close. For landscapes the Arca offers awesome focal plane control with tilt so even when working with near far subjects I get great sharpness all across the frame. That was something one struggles with a DSLR like the 645D (no wide angle lenses available with shift/tilt) and it is one of the reasons I went with a tech camera.

All in all this is a great time for Medium Format Digital.

 

[Shashin]

I'm thinking that the 645D is aimed at a whole different customer segment than Phase One, and that there's very few that would actually choose between a Pentax and a Phase One system based on price. That is even if a Pentax would cost $5K and have the exact same image quality as the IQ250, the IQ250 would still sell well for $35K, as it gives access to the Phase One system which is so well established in some professional segments.

With the current 645D priced at $7K (it's release price was $9.5K in 2010) I would be surprised if 645D II becomes more expensive than $10K, unless they aim to run these two models in parallel for a longer period of time.

I think Pentax would fail to meet their current customers if they would price it at say $20K, and still not attract Phase One customers, so that would be a bad move.

No, not price, but certainly a factor. I chose Pentax over Phase. I am not sure the Phase system is worth a $15K premium, if this camera is $10K. And don't forget Hasselblad. I chose Pentax over Hasselbald too.

BTW, Pentax is looking for new customers, not trying to get other brands customers that have an established system. So, if you were looking for a new MFD DSLR and you had the choice among Pentax, Phase, and Hasselblad, I am sure the Pentax would be worth serious consideration.

 

[Michiel Schierbeek]

Looks like a very attractive camera again.
I wish Sony would make digital back's around there sensor themselves. That could stirr up those elite prices a little.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

What I find the most interesting of all in these releases is EVERYONE turned to Sony for the 50mpx Sensor. To me regardless of form factor on bodies this is truly unique and at the same time not a very good sign for the MF sensor players out there. We went from 3 to 1 sensor maker and the one left standing was the CMOS maker Sony. I find this very odd and also makes Sony holding the cards. I would watch it this stops Sony at nothing throwing this sensor in a body of there own or even a cut down version for there A series bodies.

Right now with the A7r they certainly have the tech to do just about anything and more important the balls to do it.

 

[torger]

No, not price, but certainly a factor. I chose Pentax over Phase. I am not sure the Phase system is worth a $15K premium, if this camera is $10K. And don't forget Hasselblad. I chose Pentax over Hasselbald too.

BTW, Pentax is looking for new customers, not trying to get other brands customers that have an established system. So, if you were looking for a new MFD DSLR and you had the choice among Pentax, Phase, and Hasselblad, I am sure the Pentax would be worth serious consideration.

How big is Pentax 645D in studio, fashion, commercials? I'm thinking that it's the space held by Hasselblad and Phase, and Pentax is more for the outdoor shooter, but I'm not sure.

I'd surely choose the Pentax over the Phase 645DF+ if I would have only one camera. But money aside I choose a Phase back with a tech cam over a Pentax for shooting landscape. I just love the tech cam workflow. But again, the reason I use MF is because of the tech cam. For DSLR-style of work I'm quite satisfied with my Canon, despite it's DR limits

 

[D&A]

Although I want to be as excited as anyone at the various improvements implemented in the new 645 D II, I'm tempering things just a bit till I see various files and image quality it produces. More DR is certainly welcomed although combined with CMOS output often leads to flat(er) looking files which often can't be simply adjusted and compensated for in post processing to match the punch and dynamic look of files like those from similar cameras with CCD output. The Leica M9 vs. MM is a case in point and it's all a matter of taste. Again for myself it's both an excited but tempered wait and see.

All the additional features and capability can't compensate for output of file quality and characteristics at base ISO if it doesn't at least match that of the original 645D.

I too would love to learn of the focal length range of the new ultra wide angle zoom and agree with those like Gary that have suggested more reasonably priced lenses that are weathered sealed. That's one of the hallmarks of the original 645D body as an all weather camera out in the field and there would be an assortment of lenses to match that weather sealed capability.

All in all an exciting time for Pentax medium format and medium format in general and a looking forward to any information gathered regarding the new body and len(s).

Dave (D&A)

 

[markymarkrb]

Does anyone know how long it took Phase to get the chip from Sony to the time they announced/delivered the IQ250? I am curious now how long these product cycles are going to be. It seems like it is going to accelerate quite a bit quicker now and we could be seeing some full frame CMOS sensor results come Photokina. Does Dalsa make CMOS sensors?

 

[Ken_R]

Does anyone know how long it took Phase to get the chip from Sony to the time they announced/delivered the IQ250? I am curious now how long these product cycles are going to be. It seems like it is going to accelerate quite a bit quicker now and we could be seeing some full frame CMOS sensor results come Photokina. Does Dalsa make CMOS sensors?

My guess would be 18 months give or take a few.

Phase had the IQ chassis well developed so it is not like they had to engineer a new camera/back platform for it.

 

[f8orbust]

What I find the most interesting of all in these releases is EVERYONE turned to Sony for the 50mpx Sensor. To me regardless of form factor on bodies this is truly unique and at the same time not a very good sign for the MF sensor players out there. We went from 3 to 1 sensor maker and the one left standing was the CMOS maker Sony. I find this very odd and also makes Sony holding the cards.

+1

To my eye the big deal with the 250 is that for the numbers to work, Sony had to be able to sell the sensor to multiple manufacturers. I would not expect to see a whole range of CMOS sensors appear in P1 backs anytime soon, since it looks like Sony will only produce a new chip when it can find multiple DB manufacturers to use it.

Custom development of one (Sony) CMOS sensor for one DB manufacturer seems unlkely.

 

[D&A]

What I find the most interesting of all in these releases is EVERYONE turned to Sony for the 50mpx Sensor. To me regardless of form factor on bodies this is truly unique and at the same time not a very good sign for the MF sensor players out there. We went from 3 to 1 sensor maker and the one left standing was the CMOS maker Sony. I find this very odd and also makes Sony holding the cards. I would watch it this stops Sony at nothing throwing this sensor in a body of there own or even a cut down version for there A series bodies.

Right now with the A7r they certainly have the tech to do just about anything and more important the balls to do it.

Although I realize different cameras that utilize the same chip such as the D800 and A7r often have different imaging attributes due to electronics and optics used, there certainly is a similarity or family resemblance as to image characteristics. This in itself has me a bit worried with regards to all these MF cameras now using the same 50mm Sony chip. At the price points of some of the MF cameras, one would hope to see great diversity in image look from them.

Whether that's the case is to be seen but like Guy I to am a bit worried when it now comes down to a single chip maker for implementation.

Dave (D&A)

 

[torger]

I think CMOS vs CCD is a myth, and it's all about CFA (plus raw converter and profiling) which I think can be different between manufacturers even if the base sensor is the same. Thus I'm not too worried.

 

[Shashin]

How big is Pentax 645D in studio, fashion, commercials? I'm thinking that it's the space held by Hasselblad and Phase, and Pentax is more for the outdoor shooter, but I'm not sure.

I'd surely choose the Pentax over the Phase 645DF+ if I would have only one camera. But money aside I choose a Phase back with a tech cam over a Pentax for shooting landscape. I just love the tech cam workflow. But again, the reason I use MF is because of the tech cam. For DSLR-style of work I'm quite satisfied with my Canon, despite it's DR limits

Sure, folks have preferences. While Pentax is new to the MFD market, it was not in the film market in commercial and fashion photography. I don't think there is such a thing as indoor or outdoor cameras. Steve McCurry used Hasselblad MFD cameras for his documentary work. I have use the Pentax in the studio--when I was looking to buy the camera, I found some videos of commercial photographer trying out the 645d for fashion.

Now the big question is also price. If Pentax hits $10K again, many photographers that thought MFD was too expensive to enter would be interested. There are very few photographers, professional or amateur, that can drop $35K on a camera. I imagine Hasselblad is going to be closer to Phase in price.

 

[Shashin]

What I find the most interesting of all in these releases is EVERYONE turned to Sony for the 50mpx Sensor.

That way, when Sony goes bankrupt, we are all :banghead:.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Although I realize different cameras that utilize the same chip such as the D800 and A7r often have different imaging attributes due to electronics and optics used, there certainly is a similarity or family resemblance as to image characteristics. This in itself has me a bit worried with regards to all these MF cameras now using the same 50mm Sony chip. At the price points of some of the MF cameras, one would hope to see great diversity in image look from them.

Whether that's the case is to be seen but like Guy I to am a bit worried when it now comes down to a single chip maker for implementation.

Dave (D&A)

Me too Dave. I'm not liking the fact they are all relying on one chip maker. And as Will said above . Hello

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Right now Bob mentioned too me Sony stock is not so hot right now due to many factors outside the camera side. Being aggressive they may just do something radical here.

Let's face it even if you own Phase you still want Hassy, Pentax, Leica, Sinar and Leaf in the market as a end user.

 

[RVB]

Me too Dave. I'm not liking the fact they are all relying on one chip maker. And as Will said above . Hello

Still a good chance that Leica will turn to CMOSIS for the next S chip...

Rob

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I have no doubts Leica will, the writing is on the wall with the M240. They will leverage that chip.

 

[Uaiomex]

The success of this camera could trigger very interesting possibilities for the market and of course, for users as well. Sigma could start an Art series line for 645 cameras and tilt adapters could sprout to use with "true" MF lenses for correction or flat stitching. Or maybe they already exist?!!!
Eduardo

 

[Ed Hurst]

Zork does an adaptor that allows the use of Pentax 67 45mm lenses on smaller medium format systems with movements.