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Thread: PENTAX 645D II

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    PENTAX 645D II

    It looks like Pentax is coming to play the CMOS MF game sooner than expected. We'll have to see if tomorrow's announcement is true.

    New Ricoh WG-20 and WG-4 compact cameras leaked, Pentax name is gone | Photo Rumors

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Very interesting news and would confirm that Ricoh will stay in the MF market.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    I had the 645D. It was/is a really nice MFD DSLR. Just wished that Pentax had the service and support in the US that was in tune with such an expensive camera and lenses (the newest ones).

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    There was an update* on the link above that mentioned Pentax 645DII to be announced tomorrow but it has since been removed. TBD

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Ricoh? Pentax is way more cool and recognized. Besides the Ricoh name is ugly, cheap and infantile in my language. I won't be buying any "rico" camera! Eduardo

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Maybe they want to reserve the Pentax name for the higher end products?

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    Ricoh? Pentax is way more cool and recognized. Besides the Ricoh name is ugly, cheap and infantile in my language. I won't be buying any "rico" camera! Eduardo
    I believe name change applies to compact cameras only. 645 and K series remain Pentax. I thought rico means rich.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by tsjanik View Post
    I believe name change applies to compact cameras only. 645 and K series remain Pentax. I thought rico means rich.
    I too thought that was Ricoh's stradigy too and one I think that would serve then well. The Pentax name in both 35mm SLR type cameras and as well as medium format is a storied name, even with many just starting out with their first photographic classes.

    Of course we also know what has happened to other familiar names like Minolta and Konica after acquisition and mergers too place.

    On a separate note I have no doubt a new 645D II will offer improvements in many areas that some have asked for and were expecting...but like the situation between the CCD M9 and new CMOS M, and the improvements the new M has brought, I believe there are going to be Legion of fans for the original 645D that are going to be reluctant to change for a wide variety of reasons. Of course we'll have to see what the new camera brings to the table and at what price.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by tsjanik View Post
    I believe name change applies to compact cameras only. 645 and K series remain Pentax. I thought rico means rich.
    Quote Originally Posted by tsjanik View Post
    I believe name change applies to compact cameras only. 645 and K series remain Pentax. I thought rico means rich.
    It does, but also means "sabroso" that is of good flavor. From there sexual innuendoes follow.

    It's also the masculine form so a male Photographer carrying a "rico" camera can be the target of jokes about been narcissistic.
    They go like that:

    Que esta ciego? como toma fotos ? (Are you blind? how do you take pictures)

    Or :

    Siga soando de ese lado "keep dreaming that side"

    So if you are coming to Costa Rica with a Ricoh camera don't be surprised of the funny faces

    It's just joking.

    Best regards,
    J. Duncan
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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    .............. I believe there are going to be Legion of fans for the original 645D that are going to be reluctant to change for a wide variety of reasons. Of course we'll have to see what the new camera brings to the table and at what price.

    Dave (D&A)
    I agree Dave. I'm very happy with the files from the 645D. It will take more than 50 MP and live view for me and we'll see if CMOS can maintain the "look" of the 645D files.
    Last edited by tsjanik; 5th February 2014 at 10:07.
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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    I don't know, Dave. I don't see the need to purchase a new camera just because a new model comes out. I don't feel limited by this model and I am very happy with the results.
    Will

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Will, please take time to watch "The Light Bulb Conspiracy" documentary. Your reluctance to buy the latest and greatest because it's the, err, well, latest and greatest, is very un patriotic and against the best intentions of the market economy.

    Shame on you.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Will, please take time to watch "The Light Bulb Conspiracy" documentary. Your reluctance to buy the latest and greatest because it's the, err, well, latest and greatest, is very un patriotic and against the best intentions of the market economy.

    Shame on you.
    Graham, now I'm feeling guilty. I just pre-ordered three 645D II's, ( two backups of course). Oh wait, who's economy is helped most by their purchase?

    All kidding aside I too agree with Tom and Will and have been very happy with the 645D and and have been completely satisfied by the quality of its files as well as the reliability and features of the camera. Sure there is always room for improvement but it will probably take something extraordinary to put the thought in my head of upgrading.

    Along conventional lines, something tells me the three most likely upgrades we'll see are the higher ISO performance, live view, and probably a faster processor to facilitate read/write and preview speeds. As for image quality from the CMOS chip, that's waiting to be seen.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 5th February 2014 at 12:49.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    I agree - if it ain't broke, don't fix it (or replace it). We're all guilty of chasing the shiny new toys.

    645D II with CMOS sounds cool though. I look forward to hearing more about it.

    A little surprised about the negativity towards Ricoh as a brand though. The Ricoh compact film and digital GR cameras have been excellent and highly regarded. It's not like we're talking about hiding our cameras in paper bags here (**cough** Hasselblad Lunacy ** cough **)
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    This looks like firmer information (though lacking detail at this stage):

    Ricoh promises 'reference products' including CMOS 645D at CP+: Digital Photography Review

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    If there is one improvement I want, it is the ability to turn off the dark frame behaviour associated with long exposures. I see the benefit of this function, but give us the choice to turn it off. That way I can use the system with star trail stacking!
    Ed Hurst, www.spiffingpics.com
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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Hurst View Post
    This looks like firmer information (though lacking detail at this stage):

    Ricoh promises 'reference products' including CMOS 645D at CP+: Digital Photography Review
    The wide angle zoom, now that's something that really gets my attention.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Yes - that would be very appealing indeed. That has been pre-announced as being in their roadmap for some time and this announcement doesn't specify a date, so it's nothing more than a promising statement of intent... I wonder if it will cover full frame 645 or not. The original 25mm DFA did but the revised 25mm DA does not. It might provide indications of likely sensor size strategy.

    Calling it 645D 2014... Hmmm...

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    I will certainly be looking at how this body performs before rushing to buy it. I am very happy with my 645D. A little more resolution, further improved high ISO performance, quicker read/write speeds, etc. are all well and good, but the overall IQ will have to be clearly improved before I spend significant money. What will colour response and DR be like? What about noise at base ISO? The 'character' of the files?

    I do feel that 40MP is not enough sometimes, but 50MP is not much of a jump. And the other benefits... jury's still out in my book. I want to love it though and will be carefully watching it, wanting to want it!

    The best thing about this is the commitment it shows to the Pentax MF product line!

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Hurst View Post
    Yes - that would be very appealing indeed. That has been pre-announced as being in their roadmap for some time and this announcement doesn't specify a date, so it's nothing more than a promising statement of intent... I wonder if it will cover full frame 645 or not. The original 25mm DFA did but the revised 25mm DA does not. It might provide indications of likely sensor size strategy.

    Calling it 645D 2014... Hmmm...
    Ed, I agree that this confirms Ricoh's commitment to the 645D, which is good, in particular for those of us already invested in the system.

    Tom.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Hope you're right about that zoom Tom. All the press release seems to say is that the lens will be exhibited in Feb, with market launch 'to be determined'. When it does come, I wonder how its performance will compare with the 25mm DA/DFA lenses and the 35mm A/FA lenses.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    The wide angle zoom is really good news. I have been tempted to get the 25mm lens but perhaps it would be wise to wait for the zoom if they can indicate a time frame for its release.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    I could not say it better than JD. Rico means rich but imagine having car named "Wealthi". In Mexico "Hacerse rico" has many funny and down very dirty sexual connotations. Believe me, Ricoh is a bad name for a camera in many spanish spoken countries. Eduardo
    Quote Originally Posted by tsjanik View Post
    I believe name change applies to compact cameras only. 645 and K series remain Pentax. I thought rico means rich.
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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    How come you always load your Pentax
    When I'm in the nude? - Michael Franks

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Read the latest link provided above most certainly gets one thinking about some of the possible advantages of the new model...yet at the same time that's exactly what happened when the new Leica M was announced with all its technological advances. It came down for some in how well they implemented these new features and did they add to the shooting experiences and capability of the camera and lastly and most important was the image quality improved.

    To date it's been somewhat of a mixed bag in my opinion. Some good and some not so good . I'm afraid that on paper, lots of things look promising but in the long run, whether it was worth upgrading or not isn't always clear cut. Time will tell though and I want to remain positive.

    One thing I'm excited about is the ultra wide angle zoom. A number of times I've thought seriously about the 25mm. It's possible this new zoom may cover thus focal length in a somewhat slower lens with possibly more distortion that the 25mm and of course at a higher price. Simply an alternative to the fixed 25mm.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Last edited by gerald.d; 5th February 2014 at 20:07.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Thanks, Gerald.

    A 645D with an articulating screen and three user settings on the exposure mode dial. The drive mode/WB/etc buttons moved to the four-way controller because of the screen design. But with live view, the screen is going to be a nice feature. Makes a good place to hold cookies too.
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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    The holes on the prism housing are interesting. Stereo mics??? Is this going to have video? Interesting.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    The new lens.

    http://news.kakaku.com/prdnews/cd=ca...571/imageno=2/

    It may have image stabilization like the DFA 90mm.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    This is all interesting stuff! Can't wait to see files from the camera - and in particular, side-by-side comparisons with the original 645D. RAWs at base ISO and various high ISOs, including some long exposures.

    Reeeeeally hope it lets us entirely turn off the dark frame behaviour for long exposures...

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Any indication Will on the focal length range of that new lens? Can't see it anywhere. The product roadmap chart they produced a while ago suggested an approximate range, but would be good to know precisely.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    It's great to see that Ricoh is still committed to the 645D and I hope they sell a lot of the 645D II models. However, my biggest wish is that they would release more new and affordable lenses for the 645D. Lenses in the same price range as the 55mm SDM (ie under $2k). Not everyone wants to spend $4-5k for a lens. I'd be happy if they just sold new FA lenses here in the USA again, so we didn't have to buy used ones.

    Gary

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    I'm really eagerly about the final price... 10.000 dollar / 7.500 Euro would be a border, where guys who would prefer Phase One could think about...
    I had read this price somewhere... So I'll actually pray...
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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Surely based on the IQ250 pricing, even $15K would be an absolute bargain for this?

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Live view just rocks with manual lenses and focusing from a tripod. As a landscape shooter I could not imagine being without it. Oh well, while I have it on my DSLR I am without it on my Linhof but then I have a 20x loupe on the ground glass.

    Anyway I think live view is a great addition, all us "young" photographers that never has seen an analog camera considers live view to be a natural component of any camera. With this the Pentax 645D becomes a great choice for anyone that wants "a better DSLR", ie you can upgrade from your 135 system to this and it will have about the same feature set, you don't need to sacrifice any of the key base features everyone's expecting from a current DSLR.

    On the other hand if you already own the 645D and are used to work without live view there's probably little reason to upgrade. But I do think that the features a CMOS can provide will make the 645D sellable to a wider market, and that will be good for everyone interested in this system.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Surely based on the IQ250 pricing, even $15K would be an absolute bargain for this?
    I'm thinking that the 645D is aimed at a whole different customer segment than Phase One, and that there's very few that would actually choose between a Pentax and a Phase One system based on price. That is even if a Pentax would cost $5K and have the exact same image quality as the IQ250, the IQ250 would still sell well for $35K, as it gives access to the Phase One system which is so well established in some professional segments.

    With the current 645D priced at $7K (it's release price was $9.5K in 2010) I would be surprised if 645D II becomes more expensive than $10K, unless they aim to run these two models in parallel for a longer period of time.

    I think Pentax would fail to meet their current customers if they would price it at say $20K, and still not attract Phase One customers, so that would be a bad move.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    If the 645D does video, and does it well, it has the potential to really shake things up.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    The holes on the prism housing are interesting. Stereo mics??? Is this going to have video? Interesting.

    What about rain, even a little?
    Having the holes pointing up does not seems a wise decision.


    Best regards,

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    I was pretty decent at math in school, but I'm having a tough time figuring out the error in the following equation. As far as I can tell, it's on the right hand side:
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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    I guess it's about the price ...

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    The 645D was never really a big success mainly thanks to the D800E. The 645D just does not have much better image quality overall than the Nikon (dynamic range is even a touch less on the Pentax). Specially for landscape situations. It is one of the reasons I sold it. For working with people it is awesome though because of the good AF, superb handling and different color and generally shallower dof (has a different look even at mid apertures) although I much prefer the look of the Dalsa sensor in the IQ backs.

    The 645D II changes this being that it has a 50MP sensor and Live View. So it separates itself nicely from the D800E for Landscapes. Should give up nothing to the Nikon in regards to Dynamic Range, High Iso / Long Exposure performance (if anything it might be better) and functionality (thx to Live View!) and of course 50mp is a significant increase from 36mp. Not huge, but significant enough, at least for marketing purposes and it should do very well against the D800E in side by side tests.

    Of course, with the IQ250 you can use the amazing Rodenstock Lenses, Schneider LS lenses and with an FPS just about any lens made and extract even more performance out of the 50mp sensor. Digital Backs are just much more versatile, if you wish to explore and invest in more gear. It is just a very different beast. I also love how well the IQ works tethered and on supervised shoots with the iPad and CapturePilot.

    The 645D felt like a big DSLR, which is not necessarily a bad thing in a lot of situations.

    In the meantime I have been extremely satisfied with my IQ160. The image quality is just so good that it continues to just amaze me every time I open the files and work on them. I also love the large size of the chip. It just has that feel of a larger format when shooting people. Not quite to the 6x7 levels which I was used to with my Pentax 67's but pretty close. For landscapes the Arca offers awesome focal plane control with tilt so even when working with near far subjects I get great sharpness all across the frame. That was something one struggles with a DSLR like the 645D (no wide angle lenses available with shift/tilt) and it is one of the reasons I went with a tech camera.

    All in all this is a great time for Medium Format Digital.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    I'm thinking that the 645D is aimed at a whole different customer segment than Phase One, and that there's very few that would actually choose between a Pentax and a Phase One system based on price. That is even if a Pentax would cost $5K and have the exact same image quality as the IQ250, the IQ250 would still sell well for $35K, as it gives access to the Phase One system which is so well established in some professional segments.

    With the current 645D priced at $7K (it's release price was $9.5K in 2010) I would be surprised if 645D II becomes more expensive than $10K, unless they aim to run these two models in parallel for a longer period of time.

    I think Pentax would fail to meet their current customers if they would price it at say $20K, and still not attract Phase One customers, so that would be a bad move.
    No, not price, but certainly a factor. I chose Pentax over Phase. I am not sure the Phase system is worth a $15K premium, if this camera is $10K. And don't forget Hasselblad. I chose Pentax over Hasselbald too.

    BTW, Pentax is looking for new customers, not trying to get other brands customers that have an established system. So, if you were looking for a new MFD DSLR and you had the choice among Pentax, Phase, and Hasselblad, I am sure the Pentax would be worth serious consideration.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Looks like a very attractive camera again.
    I wish Sony would make digital back's around there sensor themselves. That could stirr up those elite prices a little.
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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    What I find the most interesting of all in these releases is EVERYONE turned to Sony for the 50mpx Sensor. To me regardless of form factor on bodies this is truly unique and at the same time not a very good sign for the MF sensor players out there. We went from 3 to 1 sensor maker and the one left standing was the CMOS maker Sony. I find this very odd and also makes Sony holding the cards. I would watch it this stops Sony at nothing throwing this sensor in a body of there own or even a cut down version for there A series bodies.

    Right now with the A7r they certainly have the tech to do just about anything and more important the balls to do it.
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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    No, not price, but certainly a factor. I chose Pentax over Phase. I am not sure the Phase system is worth a $15K premium, if this camera is $10K. And don't forget Hasselblad. I chose Pentax over Hasselbald too.

    BTW, Pentax is looking for new customers, not trying to get other brands customers that have an established system. So, if you were looking for a new MFD DSLR and you had the choice among Pentax, Phase, and Hasselblad, I am sure the Pentax would be worth serious consideration.
    How big is Pentax 645D in studio, fashion, commercials? I'm thinking that it's the space held by Hasselblad and Phase, and Pentax is more for the outdoor shooter, but I'm not sure.

    I'd surely choose the Pentax over the Phase 645DF+ if I would have only one camera. But money aside I choose a Phase back with a tech cam over a Pentax for shooting landscape. I just love the tech cam workflow. But again, the reason I use MF is because of the tech cam. For DSLR-style of work I'm quite satisfied with my Canon, despite it's DR limits

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Although I want to be as excited as anyone at the various improvements implemented in the new 645 D II, I'm tempering things just a bit till I see various files and image quality it produces. More DR is certainly welcomed although combined with CMOS output often leads to flat(er) looking files which often can't be simply adjusted and compensated for in post processing to match the punch and dynamic look of files like those from similar cameras with CCD output. The Leica M9 vs. MM is a case in point and it's all a matter of taste. Again for myself it's both an excited but tempered wait and see.

    All the additional features and capability can't compensate for output of file quality and characteristics at base ISO if it doesn't at least match that of the original 645D.

    I too would love to learn of the focal length range of the new ultra wide angle zoom and agree with those like Gary that have suggested more reasonably priced lenses that are weathered sealed. That's one of the hallmarks of the original 645D body as an all weather camera out in the field and there would be an assortment of lenses to match that weather sealed capability.

    All in all an exciting time for Pentax medium format and medium format in general and a looking forward to any information gathered regarding the new body and len(s).

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Does anyone know how long it took Phase to get the chip from Sony to the time they announced/delivered the IQ250? I am curious now how long these product cycles are going to be. It seems like it is going to accelerate quite a bit quicker now and we could be seeing some full frame CMOS sensor results come Photokina. Does Dalsa make CMOS sensors?

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by markymarkrb View Post
    Does anyone know how long it took Phase to get the chip from Sony to the time they announced/delivered the IQ250? I am curious now how long these product cycles are going to be. It seems like it is going to accelerate quite a bit quicker now and we could be seeing some full frame CMOS sensor results come Photokina. Does Dalsa make CMOS sensors?
    My guess would be 18 months give or take a few.

    Phase had the IQ chassis well developed so it is not like they had to engineer a new camera/back platform for it.

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    Re: PENTAX 645D II

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    What I find the most interesting of all in these releases is EVERYONE turned to Sony for the 50mpx Sensor. To me regardless of form factor on bodies this is truly unique and at the same time not a very good sign for the MF sensor players out there. We went from 3 to 1 sensor maker and the one left standing was the CMOS maker Sony. I find this very odd and also makes Sony holding the cards.
    +1

    To my eye the big deal with the 250 is that for the numbers to work, Sony had to be able to sell the sensor to multiple manufacturers. I would not expect to see a whole range of CMOS sensors appear in P1 backs anytime soon, since it looks like Sony will only produce a new chip when it can find multiple DB manufacturers to use it.

    Custom development of one (Sony) CMOS sensor for one DB manufacturer seems unlkely.

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