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Leaf AptusII-12 damaged...advice?

Egor

Member
EH21: Yes we took pictures of everything, but I was too afraid of ESD damage to the sensor to fire it up. As it was, the decision to remove the filter at all, was not recommended, but I couldn't think of any sensical reason to allow broken glass shards to fall against the sensor and made a quick executive decision to remove the filter. All of this within a few seconds so I think I handled it well but hindsight is always 20/20
So I have no idea if the unit was working before sending out.
I also have no reason to believe anyone is trying to deceive me or rip me off in any way. Like I said, I have always been treated well by my vendors and this particular sales rep. He has emailed me, probably read this thread, that he is working on my problem behind the scenes and is trying to get more info from Israel for me to work with.

I guess one of the things I am asking advice on here is "what would you do?" kind've thing...I am assuming that the back really is busted $15k worth to fix, and if so, should I have it fixed and returned as essentially a new AptusII-12 with 0 actuations and a warranty for $15k? (pretty good deal I think all would agree, right?) or...cut my losses, get the back back and get a used P65 or equivalent and move on...possibly even getting some money for the non-working Aptus or trade value from my vendor?

These are the questions I am grappling with today, as I go thru the "5 stages of grief" thing I believe I am currently at Stage#3: Bargaining ;)
 

f8orbust

Active member
I would probably scrap it. Why? Well ... not sure how capital allowances (CA) for business work in the US, but here (UK) I would figure out what's left to claim of the CA - the more, the better - and go from there. So, thinking aloud here for a moment - if it was bought new for $40k ... and you've claimed $10k in total so far as a CA (over successive tax years here) ... means you have $30k left to claim. Scrapping it means you can claim the entire $30k this FY - in real terms that would have given you about $6k off your tax bill (@20%). Add this to the $15k you can 'save' by not repairing the Aptus, plus whatever you can get by putting the broken Aptus on eBay (you'll be surprised) and you have $21k + eBay sale to play with. I've seen used IQ180s go for this privately, so that might be an idea. CI have a couple of used IQ160s for $22k - or maybe get a used P65 and put the rest towards accident insurance.

Of course, if there's little left to claim as a CA in the Aptus, this changes things a bit - lowering your overall budget.

Jim
 

f8orbust

Active member
There's a user here (Vieri) who was trying to sell a gold-package Aptus II 12R for ages, and ended up sending it to a dealer (newoldcamera). Looks like it - or one very similar - is still there, listed at $19.7k. Since it's a buyer's market, you may be able to negotiate.
 

Egor

Member
Good points, Jim, I will have to see what has been depreciated so far. I have been thinking along same lines and considering options. I too, have seen sub-$20K IQ180's and even a sub-$10k P65....soooo...will just have to wait and see what my dealer has to tell me tomorrow and what my bookkeeper says are my tax ramifications. I am very interested in what the "real deal" is on the damages and will press for more info.

Est. tax rate of 20% may be low, I was thinking more like 35% + local and state liabilities as well...its not pretty, tax wise, here in CA :) but could work to my advantage. Although my studio is a corp. soooo...it gets complicated
 

f8orbust

Active member
One final thing - I don't say scrap it lightly - I'm a big believer in reuse, repair, recycle - we've only got one planet after all. But, $15k for a repair of an electronic device, most of the components of which are plug 'n' play + the odd soldered cable. Seriously? Sure these things cost $40k new because they've got to recoup R&D from a (relatively) small number of people, plus everyone involved in the supply chain has to make a living. Understood. But then, when someone who has spent a king's ransom on one of these gets in trouble - as with you - they've got to cut some slack. A lot of slack infact. Bill for parts only perhaps? Yeah I know we should all have accident insurance but hey, make a $15k claim this year and see what next year's premium will be (if they'll reinsure you...).

Keep us posted on how you get on - will be interested to see how this pans out.
 

Egor

Member
Thanks, everyone here, for the great advice and co-misery ;)
I have spoken to my sales rep (he was working behind the scenes for us) and have also received pics of the scratches on the sensor and more detail of the damage to the firewire assembly.
My dealer has given me some good options to consider, including just fixing the firewire and IR filter and "live with the scratches" (see attached)
So am still in Stage#3 of the stages of grief, "Bargaining" phase. I have many options to consider and greatly appreciate everyone here's help and advice. I will keep you updated on what we decide...just for closure sake, eh? :)
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Yes that looks similar to the mark on my Aptus sensor, although perhaps larger in your case. It was invisible when looking at the sensor but showed up when you shot an LCC or white field with the back. It's a bummer.

I did wonder when I sent mine in whether it was made worse because they asked me to leave the broken IR glass in place and not remove it before shipping. The glass spalls off the back when it breaks plus the gap is pretty small between it and the sensor.
 

Egor

Member
My studio manager has mapped out the damage on the full res raw captures received from Israel.
Not exactly what you want to see on your gazillion dollar 80MP MFD back, but not entirely unfortunate as these things go, I guess.

On a side note, its nice to know that you arent supposed to even look at these sensors directly for fear of damage of some kind....but writing directly on them with a grease pencil is A-OK! ?? ;)
 

torger

Active member
Only damaged on the side of the sensor? Looks usable to me. You could even crop away that part and have lots of megapixels left. Applying LCC when needed should help too I guess.

Looking at the 100% crop the marks look rather narrow too, gathered dust on the sensor in normal shooting is often worse than that.

I know some backs have the possibility to register damaged pixels in the back itself so the raw processor can compensate for that, with this narrow damage I think it would do a quite decent job, and as it's on the side it's probably not going to be a big problem. I think Phase One backs can do that. Not sure with this Aptus though.
 

Egor

Member
Update: The repair guys in Israel "refused" to partially repair and return, to let it live out its life with a scratched sensor, so I have taken them up on a very good offer to trade in my broken AptusII-12 and should be getting my brand new Credo-80 (with warranty) in a week or so.
Been reading up on the Credo (wasn't that the green lizard loan sharjk guy in Star Wars? Han Solo shoots him under the table in the 1st episode)... and we are getting excited about it. One "feature" the Credo does NOT have, is an "easy-to-quick-release" button on the side, which proved "problematic" on the AptusII to say the least. ;)

R.I.P., AptusII-12...we had good times together, you will be missed :(
 

tjv

Active member
I'm pleased you're happy but a little bemused by Leaf's service and repair policy.
$15K is absolute daylight robbery in my mind.
However, may you have many years of good service from your new back!
 

Ken_R

New member
Update: The repair guys in Israel "refused" to partially repair and return, to let it live out its life with a scratched sensor, so I have taken them up on a very good offer to trade in my broken AptusII-12 and should be getting my brand new Credo-80 (with warranty) in a week or so.
Been reading up on the Credo (wasn't that the green lizard loan sharjk guy in Star Wars? Han Solo shoots him under the table in the 1st episode)... and we are getting excited about it. One "feature" the Credo does NOT have, is an "easy-to-quick-release" button on the side, which proved "problematic" on the AptusII to say the least. ;)

R.I.P., AptusII-12...we had good times together, you will be missed :(
Very nice that it worked out in the end. The Credo 80 is an awesome back!
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Congratulations on the inadvertent upgrade to the Credo! That's how I ended up with my P40+ after the Aptus, although I did keep the Aptus and sensor spots :)

A good friend of mine absolutely loves his Credo's - much more than the IQ series in fact. The leaf colour rocks IMHO.
 

yaya

Active member
Eric, I think you have made the right decision. If you took the Aptus back without sorting out the sensor issue, you would have to work around it on a daily base (cropping, retouching, whatever...) but the re-sale value of the back would have drop considerably.

I think you're going to be very happy with the Credo. Looking forward to seeing some new images from it!

BR

Yair
 

Egor

Member
Thanks, Yair. Yes, we are excited about the new back and are all watching videos and reading up on it here at the studio to be up to speed upon its arrival. Looks like it will be a great back! We have $1000 invested in many FW800 cables all over the studio (the kind with the right angle end that fit the Aptus) and I am trying to figure out if they will fit the Credo as is, or if we are going to have to pull them all and reverse them setup wise.
Any thoughts?

I came to the same conclusion you stated, reluctantly. I was all ready to live with scratches on the Aptus sensor and buy a second "used" system as backup. Would really like 2 systems here, to be honest. Guess I will do that at some point, if all goes well this year, perhaps a Credo 40 or 60. I really believe in redundancy, and most of what we shoot here doesn't require 80MP, but does require the quality and accuracy of MFD (I have spent an additional 60hours in post over the last 3 weeks correcting color and contrast on Canon and Nikon files we have been using since the disaster)
 

yaya

Active member
Yes you can reverse the FW800 cables, the straight end fits nicely into the Credo's FW port!

Enjoy!
 

Egor

Member
Yes, we will probably move to USB3 eventually, but our MacPro towers (6 of them fully loaded) do not have USB3 cards...yet.

As with most things, its not the materials cost, but the labor cost that is considerable.
The 30ft FW800 cables ($200/ea) are strung up thru the ceiling and pop down where the cameras and computers are to get them out of the way of stylists and shooters. So reversing them will cost, but I guess it must be done. Sounds like the right angle end won't fit the back but should plug into the computers just fine. At least the new Credo's aren't "powered" by the FW connection
 

yaya

Active member
Or you can reverse the studio JJJJ

The Credo CAN be powered through FW or by its battery, or power+charge at the same time
 

Egor

Member
HaHaHa...Thanks, Yair...Is that "out of the box" thinking or just good ole' Brit Wit? ;)

The "not so" Funny thing is that the reason we switched from 27in iMac shooting stations to MacPro Towers and specialized Leaf 30ft FW800 cables was FOR the AptusII-12!! grrrrr :)
 
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