Game changer? Pentax 645 II - 10k USD for 50Mpx CMOS, 3fps, ISO 200k+

[johnnygoesdigital]

Wow!

Some legitimate criticism based on experience, but holy moly some of it is really reaching. The vitriol is palatable like someone killed your dog or something

Hey, we all select our tools for the job at hand, and that process is a mix of experience, logic, finances, and a wee bit of desire

All kidding aside, the Pentax looks to be a fine tool. However, not a tool suited to everyone.

Frankly, I cannot recall any camera system I bought into for the camera alone. Lenses first, camera second. Sometimes one even puts up with a lesser camera because the lenses are so good.

Sometimes people either do not have the money, or they simply do not want to spend more than needed even if they do have the money. After retiring, I have sympathy for both points of view.

If one doesn't have the ability, need or the desire to buy Phase One, or Leica or Hasselblad … or if one of them left a bad taste in your mouth, the solution is simple … don't buy it.

Every negative point can be countered by those who had a different experience … which makes for bad blood, and numbered lists of grievances answered by laundry lists of positives.

- Marc

Based on your criteria, you invest in lenses first and I think we can agree that prices on MFD lenses equate to a substantial part of that investment. If the second purchase is the camera itself, how can anyone begrudge another if after all that, it doesn't function as advertised? You've more or less committed to that brand with your lens investment. Some of us have followed your model, so let us vent a little because we can't be in the business of buying and selling photography equipment...we're here to sell photographs.

 

[bensonga]

The 645 II will be a welcome addition to the MF scene, just as it's well liked predecessor was. I just hope that Pentax USA decide that they want to support it here.

Yup, more support from Pentax USA, including selling some of the existing FA lenses here, as is done in other markets around the world, would really help.

Gary

 

[D&A]

Yup, more support from Pentax USA, including selling some of the existing FA lenses here, as is done in other markets around the world, would really help.

Gary

Agree with all you wrote. As well intentioned Ricoh/Pentax in Japan is, Pentax USA is unfortunately a different entity and nothing like their former self who would be attentive to the needs of both the general consumer and the pro's they supported. I've had first hand experience with them for many years both before an after all the acquisitions.

All I can say is Pentax USA is the very weak link in chain, especially when it comes to supporting their MF products. They need to wake up and smell the roses if things are really going to take off (relatively speaking), and people have confidence they will have someone to turn to if they run into a problem after spending $10,000 and more. This unfortunately hasn't been the case with the 645D for the most part.

Dave (D&A)

 

[fotografz]

Based on your criteria, you invest in lenses first and I think we can agree that prices on MFD lenses equate to a substantial part of that investment. If the second purchase is the camera itself, how can anyone begrudge another if after all that, it doesn't function as advertised? You've more or less committed to that brand with your lens investment. Some of us have followed your model, so let us vent a little because we can't be in the business of buying and selling photography equipment...we're here to sell photographs.

Agreed. However, you have to investigate if the camera is then suitable before initially investing in all the optics. By suitable, I don't mean it has to be the latest greatest, do it all wonder cam.

That also don't take into account some monumental failure of the camera and poor service afterward. That is inexcusable and well worth venting about.

I've been lucky over the years I guess … 5 or 6 V cameras, 3 Mamiya RZ Pro-IIs, 2 Mamiya 645s, 2 Contax 645s, nine Hasselblad H cameras, and now the Leica S2P I currently use.

A few hiccups along the way, but always quick and uncontentious service.

Knock on wood

- Marc

 

[fotografz]

Rob,

The form factor is such that when holding the camera with gloves on, the fingertips were the only positive contact I had with this camera. In comparison, the Hasselblad H has a battery grip I could wrap my hands around. What I did like about the S was that I could be covered in snow, and I didn't care about the camera.

Which is why I immediately add an adjustable hand strap to all my cameras. After you carry one of these bigger cameras around for a whole day, including any Pro 35mm DSLR, holding onto them gets difficult.

- Marc

 

[bensonga]

Agree with all you wrote. As well intentioned Ricoh/Pentax in Japan is, Pentax USA is unfortunately a different entity and nothing like their former self who would be attentive to the needs of both the general consumer and the pro's they supported. I've had first hand experience with them for many years both before an after all the acquisitions.

All I can say is Pentax USA is the very weak link in chain, especially when it comes to supporting their MF products. They need to wake up and smell the roses if things are really going to take off (relatively speaking), and people have confidence they will have someone to turn to if they run into a problem after spending $10,000 and more. This unfortunately hasn't been the case with the 645D for the most part.

Dave (D&A)

Hi Dave. What, if anything, do you think current owners of the 645D can do to encourage Pentax USA to move in this direction? Do you think it would be helpful for us to contact them? If so, who in Pentax USA would be the best person for us to contact?

Gary

 

[kdphotography]

What, if anything, do you think current owners of the 645D can do to encourage Pentax USA to move in this direction? ....
Gary

Buy the Pentax 645D II. And then buy two of everything.

:ROTFL:

 

[gazwas]

My point was only that the sky is not falling for Phase/Leaf/Hassy and that, as counter intuitive as it is, having a lower-end product enter a market segment often helps the dominant players.

I'm sure if the Pentax takes off Doug, you'll be the first dealership flying the Pentax flag.

Can we all not play nice and respect each others choice based on performance/user suitability rather than how much we paid?

 

[dougpeterson]

I'm sure if the Pentax takes off Doug, you'll be the first dealership flying the Pentax flag.

Can we all not play nice and respect each others choice based on performance/user suitability rather than how much we payed?

No disrespect was meant by my phrasing - as I've said several times in this thread alone I think the Pentax is a fine camera and I suspect the second iteration will be as well. I only meant on spectrum of options it's at the lower end of pricing.

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

H5D has weather sealing.

 

[alajuela]

No matter how well she performs in bed---she's still ugly. Well, maybe with the lights off...

We're just being tongue in cheek fun here and it doesn't matter except where the Pentax performs (paper bag handy or lights out). I'm serious here---I'd like to see how the Pentax 645D II would be as a converted IR camera. That's IR with live view. That's huge. Graham? You got room in that camera cart land rover ...

Hi going down the IR road -- does Pentex have an adapter for Mamiya lens?
This sound cooooool.

 

[tsjanik]

..............I always wondered why Leica never offered a adapter to use Pentax 645 lenses on the S camera as they do for Mamiya 645 lenses. ............
Dave (D&A)

Interestingly they do offer an adapter for Pentax 67 lenses.

 

[alajuela]

I used the word "trash" as a verb: as in to bad-mouth or criticize. I think you'd agree that your post was critical, no? My point was more that this thread his sunk to the level that fans of one product or another say "bravo" when the "enemy's" product is criticized.

I believe your are mis- categorizing jagsiva's post, “trash” as a verb or noun, is not appropriate. Reading his post, there are no undue verbs, or adjectives.

I own Phase equipment; happen to be happy with it. Yet I certainly want to know about other’s experience ie. Achromatic back. I don’t see one critical word about any brand other than what jagsiva owns.

My experiences with Phase has been limited, but all good, I happen to have a great Dealer in Capture Integration, which as noted in many many post, is at least 50% of the satisfaction equation, in making these decisions, and working out problems.

Let’s not define personal experiences into easy to digest categories such as “fanboy”, enemy etc. Then say we are at that level.

There are some good posts here without polarizing people into convenient camps.

I am interested whatever new equipment is introduced, and the opinions of it. As far as the Pentex is concerned, I have seen great images from some of our members, and know some people who own the 645D, we hang out together sometimes, we don’t compare systems, we compare images.

My 2 cents

 

[ondebanks]

Hi going down the IR road -- does Pentex have an adapter for Mamiya lens?

No, because the Pentax 645 has a longer flange distance than the Mamiya 645, i.e. you cannot focus a Mamiya lens to infinity on a Pentax, even if the adapter had zero thickness.

Pentax should pull a Leica and offer fully operational H mount, Contax 645 mount, and … (he, he) … Leica S mount adapters.

I do agree if Pentax offers adapters for Hassy, S and other MF manufacturers lenses, they are likely to increase their user base for the new camera.

If Pentax 645 II comes up with Leica S and Hasselblad H adapters, it will be a game changer!

All these comments miss the (same) technical point. Just as Mamiya lenses won't focus to infinity on a Pentax, neither will Leica S lenses focus to infinity on a Pentax - or on any other MF SLR camera, in fact.

But that is precisely what makes the Leica S the ultimate lens whore for other manufacturer's lenses. (And I mean that as a good thing! )
For example:

I always wondered why Leica never offered a adapter to use Pentax 645 lenses on the S camera as they do for Mamiya 645 lenses. This always perplexed me.

- that is indeed doable. I don't understand either why Leica haven't done it. Maybe it's just a case of "haven't done it....yet".

Ray

 

[bensonga]

And if someone would make a full frame 6 x 6 sensor I would mortgage my house in a heartbeat.

I wouldn't mortgage my house for one, but I might sell a kidney....only if it would fit on a Hassy V body.

Gary

 

[bensonga]

Buy the Pentax 645D II. And then buy two of everything.

:ROTFL:

:facesmack: Why didn't I think of that? I'll discuss this plan with my wife tonight. :salute:

Gary

 

[D&A]

Interestingly they do offer an adapter for Pentax 67 lenses.

That's what is perplexing. If anything, I would have thought Leica would have first made an adapter to use Pentax 645 lenses on their S camera rather than an adapter for Pentax 67 lenses...if for not other reason, the size of 645 lenses is more appropriate for the S body. It's a wild guess but maybe Leica sort of looked at the Pentax 645 system with the newly introduced 645D and thought maybe Pentax 645 lenses or the system as a whole would be seen as "the medium format digital competition. This is in contrast to Pentax 67 lenses which offered no threat (so to speak) in any way to the Leica S system.

Dave (D&A)

 

[D&A]

Hi Dave. What, if anything, do you think current owners of the 645D can do to encourage Pentax USA to move in this direction? Do you think it would be helpful for us to contact them? If so, who in Pentax USA would be the best person for us to contact?

Gary

Gary, just months prior to the 645D body being released for sale, is when my final of many formal working relation contacts within Pentax USA ended. Even my fairly recent causal contact has left prior to the fall of 2013. I may re-establish something in the near future but I first want to see what develops while they are still reorganizing. In the meantime, any correspondence we might send to them with regards to their working more closely with the growing numbers of 645 D and 645D II users (once the camera is released), couldn't hurt. As the saying goes, strength in numbers.

Dave (D&A)

 

[PeterA]

I look at the previous 'regulars' who carried the P1 flag real high and they are no longer users of P1 gear- of course for 'very good reasons'.

LOL

When photography went digital the die was cast. People HAD to pay for bleeding edge smoke and mirrors for a long time AND put up with 4th rate service from little cottage industry companies..

Party is OVER folks - in fact it was OVER when Sony delivered the killer kidney punch to P1 and Hasselblad via the D800

all that remains is for Sony et al to quietly dismember what is left of a dead or dying market segment over the next few years..

but hey guess what? your 60K system still makes the same quality shots it did when you bought it - that has to be good news right?

LOL

 

[Egor]

Can't sleep tonight for some reason, so peanut gallery will chime in
I like this new camera from Pentax and all the new Sony chip camera action because of the live view.
But, as you may have read in my other post, my Aptus recently suffered a fatal blow in the studio so over the last few weeks we were forced to do hundreds of product shots with the the D800e as well as canon's top offerings.
We are not dummies at profiling, lighting, and C1 raw post. Let me get that out of the way immediately.
Sorry, but the color and contrast of the images from the Sony chip were so far off the mark that it cost us over 100 addl. man hours in post to render acceptable images to our clients.
...and even then these were noticeably inferior to what they had been getting straight out of the Aptus box.

I do not have an IQ250 or this new Pentax and perhaps it is far superior to the D800 chip, or perhaps it is the lenses or a combination; but if it is the same, then thanks but no thanks.

I have seen the sample images so far from the iq250 but nothing strikes me as acceptable for product shooting or art repro (which is what we do mostly).
Having said that, I will be one of the 1st legion to embrace the new cheaper tech if it can deliver in what we do in our studios. I have no dog in the hunt, and I would rather not spend the $$ that the current CCD tech costs.