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Considering the HY6

Geoff

Well-known member
Enjoy the 45º finder quite a bit. Good for general use, handhold for sure. Adds some weight over the WLF, but good for inclement weather. Easy on/off. I think it was modified from the 6008 version, with changed mount and internals as well, so its lighter. Eric can talk better about focusing with it; it works well for me. The WLF (and lupe) has a bit more magnification, but there is enough in the 45º to make it quite workable.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
At the time I used it, I found that the Hy6 was a very good camera, though the back was rather miserable. I am sure they are better now. I had a Sinar E54LV...some liked it, I found the results from the M9 significantly better in every way other than pure low-iso resolution. The handling was terrible, but the color and image character were so bad that I never got on with the files...I always brought along a film back and always chose those images! I don't have a single e54lv image in my portfolio.
I had a full kit of Rollei lenses and shot on Rollei for a long time on film. The camera itself is well-laid out, easy to handle, and very nice to use. There was no 6060 back when I was shooting (I waited YEARS!!!), but I would say the Hy6 is superb to shoot film on...probably one of the best film cameras ever made, at least for studio or work where weight is not an issue...the camera and lenses add up to a LOT of weight.

The lens quality is as high or higher than anything else made in the film era...BUT...as amazing as they are, the Leica S lenses put them to shame, particularly in the wides. The 35mm S vs the 40mm Curtagon I had would be a bloodbath. For example, I had the 110/2 Planar on both the Rollei and the Hasselblad 203FE. I shot the Hasselblad version on the S2 in comparison to the 120 Summarit, and the results were not pretty. The Summarit is sharper across the entire image plane at 2.5 than the Planar at f/8!! No, there is nothing wrong with the lens...the S lenses are just in a different league. Sure, the 150mm Tele-Xenar and 90/4 will do better, but it is something to consider. I know Rollei are making some new digital spec'ed lenses, but as the backs get better and better, they become truly necessary to get the most out of the cameras. The older lenses can have beautiful character and very good performance (particularly at middle apertures), but "designed for digital" is a real moniker, at least in some cases. Keep that in mind when you put together a system. I am not saying get an S camera, as from your workflow it does not sound like it would be a good fit, just that if you want to get the most out of 50+ megapixels with old lenses, you are not going to do it. If everything can be shot at f/8-f/16, you are in better shape.
 

Geoff

Well-known member
At the time I used it, I found that the Hy6 was a very good camera, though the back was rather miserable. I am sure they are better now. I had a Sinar E54LV...some liked it, I found the results from the M9 significantly better in every way other than pure low-iso resolution. The handling was terrible, but the color and image character were so bad that I never got on with the files...I always brought along a film back and always chose those images! I don't have a single e54lv image in my portfolio.
I had a full kit of Rollei lenses and shot on Rollei for a long time on film. The camera itself is well-laid out, easy to handle, and very nice to use. There was no 6060 back when I was shooting (I waited YEARS!!!), but I would say the Hy6 is superb to shoot film on...probably one of the best film cameras ever made, at least for studio or work where weight is not an issue...the camera and lenses add up to a LOT of weight.

The lens quality is as high or higher than anything else made in the film era...BUT...as amazing as they are, the Leica S lenses put them to shame, particularly in the wides. The 35mm S vs the 40mm Curtagon I had would be a bloodbath. For example, I had the 110/2 Planar on both the Rollei and the Hasselblad 203FE. I shot the Hasselblad version on the S2 in comparison to the 120 Summarit, and the results were not pretty. The Summarit is sharper across the entire image plane at 2.5 than the Planar at f/8!! No, there is nothing wrong with the lens...the S lenses are just in a different league. Sure, the 150mm Tele-Xenar and 90/4 will do better, but it is something to consider. I know Rollei are making some new digital spec'ed lenses, but as the backs get better and better, they become truly necessary to get the most out of the cameras. The older lenses can have beautiful character and very good performance (particularly at middle apertures), but "designed for digital" is a real moniker, at least in some cases. Keep that in mind when you put together a system. I am not saying get an S camera, as from your workflow it does not sound like it would be a good fit, just that if you want to get the most out of 50+ megapixels with old lenses, you are not going to do it. If everything can be shot at f/8-f/16, you are in better shape.
Stuart -
Well put and I respect your insights. I have not compared the Schneider Rollei lenses with the S2, but someone else (PeterA) did and suggested the Leica's were better but not shamefully so. Its likely true, as they are more modern in design by close to 15 years…. and while the AFD Rollei lenses are better, still, the Leica is likely superior. Especially these new wides.

On a lens by lens basis - here is some user feedback on the Schneiders, most of these MF lenses, not AFD. Don't own all these (I wish) but have borrowed from friends and used at length. All from review with 33mp back and in some cases compared to view camera lenses. Its informal, but then again, there isn't much discussion about this lens lineup, so here's something at least:

40mm - decent, good center 2/3 sharpness, soft on edges. Not in the same league as 35XL.

50AF - sharp edge to edge, but has barrel distortion. Can be cleaned up in C1. Have used on line art as a copy lens (!) with good success. f 2.8, so a bit bigger.

55PC - was out of favor for a long time. With tilt truly zeroed, its good at f11-16, but not for other apertures. Very heavy, but has movements in both directions, plus auto metering.

60 f 3.5 Curtagon - somehow, my favorite lens. Not sure why/how, but it brings clarity to the game all the time. Some CA if you shoot into the sun.

80 f2.8 AF - very good, all apertures.

90 Macro - super sharp. Eric's favorite, but not mine - it compares for sharpness very well with Rodie 90 HRW (older version), but somehow I seem to get caught with a lack of DOF with this lens. Not sure why.

110 (Zeiss) - older lens configuration, not in the same league for sharpness with the Schneiders, but has good aura.

150 Telexenar - was out of favor, until dialed in with focus adjustment. Now its a go-to lens, with a lot of practicality. Truly sharp.

150 f4.6 (on bellows) - lovely tones, and even better than the Tele-xenar. Holds up vs. 150 Apo Sironar for sharpness and tonality. This lens finds light where you only think it might be.

180 (manual) - not enough experience to judge, but seems to deliver well. Not small. Also f 2.8.

300 - amazing lens - crystal clear. But heavy and hard to use - as the max shutter speed is 1/500. I've had more "nope, not this time" shots with this lens than any other, but when you get it right, its very good. Spider webs sharp at 50 yard.

There were also some zooms made - 75-150 and 140-280, which I've not used. I don't think they are quite in the same league as the primes.

Eric has shot with the 60-140, and while there is barrel distortion at the wide end, it cleans up easily. His shot with an 80 mp back of ducks from about 80 yards revealed feather definition on the ducks…. absolutely too much! THis lens also comes as an AFD, which is really intriguing, if it weren't so darn big.

Your point about the higher res backs is valid, but Eric's shot with the AFI 12 back (80mp) and I think he's not found any lack on the lenses. He's done many detailed tests, not yet published, and perhaps he'll chime in. But truth to tell, haven't tested it at that resolution - but only to say very strong results on the Leaf 7.

Your comments on the 40 and 110 are valid. I'm not sure those same comments apply across the whole line up. Again, these comments are for the Schneiders, don't think the Zeiss lenses (of older design) are in the same league. Mind you, some of the Schneiders have different iterations, first as manual PQ lenses (which are most of the above), then some AF, and then finally some AFD. The only AF lenses used have been the 50 and the 80.

One other thing to keep in mind is that many of these can be bought used in good condition for $1-2k, with only a few more than that. Makes assembling a kit that much more possible.

Hope this helps.
 
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sandrahmart

New member
Hy6 is definitely not discontinued,, It was, for a period, very dicey for the parent company including a bankruptcy restructuring.
 

EH21

Member
It looks like Geoff has made great start to a list of the lenses for the Rollei and I agree with a fair amount of what he wrote - though not entirely.

I've been testing as many of the Rollei 6000 and Hy6 lenses as I can with Imatest and hope to publish a comprehensive document sometime this year.

What I can say is some general guidelines - the Rollei Schneider lenses are sharper wide open than the Zeiss lenses for the platform though the Zeiss lenses reach the same sharpness when stopped down. Schneider lenses typically have less distortion and also simple distortion that is easily corrected with software - unlike the Zeiss with mustache type distortion curves.

The schneider lenses were color matched and have the same characteristic rendering which seems to be more neutral than the Zeiss. The Zeiss has well the Zeiss look which some people like. That part is truly personal preference.

The standouts of the Zeiss offerings for the Rollei are probably the 40mm FLE PQ, 80mm Planar, 110mm f/2.0 (which I think is actually quite sharp wide open), and 120mm PQS (early versions suffer from flare - later versions much better). Oh and the 30mm distagon since its unique to the line up.

The standouts of the Schneider line up? Well basically all of them! 40,50, 55, 60, 60-140, 80, 80/2, 90, 150, 180, 300 … oh and the 1.4x longar which is excellent!

The 40mm f/3.5 SA is the only one that isn't sharp edge to edge near wide open. The surprise is the 60-140mm zoom. You have this big lens and are thinking do I really want to carry this around? And then you see the files. This lens is amazing! It could be one of my sharpest lenses.

Most of the lenses (including the zeiss offerings) are reaching very high sharpness values in Imatest. I know that Stuart has written how his Leica S lenses are killing everything but in my testing with the 80mp AFi-ii back some of the lenses are hitting the theoretical limits - .5 cy/px at MTF 50.

I don't discount anything Stuart has said, however probably a Hy6 camera with 80mp back is going to out resolve a leica S or S2 picture with the same framing. I'd be interested to pit the 60 curtagon or 90mm APO against any Leica comparable focal.
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Geoff and Eric make very good points! I forgot about the 60mm Curtagon, and I agree, it is a killer lens. The 80mm AF I had was also excellent. I doubt that there will be any problem using these lenses on a high resolution digital back! I only meant that my personal experience has been that lenses that I had which were very very sharp and well-behaved on film have not always held up on high resolution digital. The purpose-built digital lenses have advantages not only in resolution, but also in contrast, lack of aberrations and so on. This makes sense, of course, as they are being designed for a different medium, and in some cases, decades later! Though the S lenses are better than anything I have ever seen from other makers (I have had a large Hy6 system, Leica R and M, Hasselblad 200 series, Mamiya 7, Nikon etc), this is not about Leica vs the world...other makers are definitely doing this as well...just look at Schneider's new lenses, Zeiss Otus and so on.

As for comparisons, I have a V adapter for the S2, so I can shoot a comparison of the 120mm S versus the 110mm Planar or the 180mm S vs Hassleblad 180mm V, 70mm vs 80mm Planar, 50mm vs. the 30-90 zoom at 50mm etc. It is not directly comparable, but not so far off in my experience.

As for the Hy6 with an 80mp back outresolving the S series, of course! Certainly on the center. But if you are using an old lens at anything other than the optimal aperture, I bet you the S shot looks better! Megapixels are not everything, the overall contrast, lack of aberrations (especially color) and corner to corner performance outweigh most megapixel differences, especially between 40mp and 80...being 10 and 24 would be another story...And that's not about being a fan-boy, it's about choosing lenses that can handle the resolution and medium! Put the right lens on the Hy6 with an 80mp back, and you are of course going to exceed the S series in resolution. That's all I am saying...don't think you will get the most from the Hy6 by picking up a cheap 50mm distagon on ebay.
 

Geoff

Well-known member
60mm Curtagon shot and crop. Iso 50, f16. Lots of water reflection.
PS - the loss of sharpness in the small crop is due to reduction for the web. Happy to send image at true size if someone wants.
 
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Geoff

Well-known member
Not sure - as I don't use it. For the manual lenses, I just set it for each lens (they are not the same, you find them by testing your own lens once) and its a pretty quick thing to set - takes about 10 sec. The auto save for the AF lenses is (I think) on the Mod2.
 

EH21

Member
Hi Geoff ,

The lens offset adjustment (auto save the offset value)also appliable to the older AF (not AFD) ??
Hi,
I think you are asking if the Hy6 Mod2 will store the AF offset for the AF 50 as well as the AFD 50? I'll check that and report back in a day or so as I also have the older AF 50.
Eric
 

Rollei6008i

Member
Eric,

I want to ask a question but you may find embrassing , do you tested that the image(optic) quality of manual focusing 50mm F2.8 PQS is same as AFD's ?
 

mmbma

Active member
Just pulled the trigger. thanks for everyone for your comments. Got the Mod2 demo from Eric and an Aptus 12 from Steve Hendrix. It's been a LONG decision: I was going back and forth comparing prices, getting used quotes, and even involved a dealer from the UK! I have to say that Eric and Steve have been incredibly patient with me, both finding time to write and call over weekends, to get me to this place.

Now comes the 1 week wait.
 
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