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Thread: Considering the HY6

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    Considering the HY6

    Some of you might know I sold my IQ260 a while back. Well it so happens that I sold all of my Phase gear as a package deal and all I have left is my trusty V system and the CFV39. As much as I love it, I need auto focus and higher resolution for studio shots. So I'm thinking of getting rid of it all together and select a fresh system. It's really liberating actually, as I've been locked into Phase for more than 3 years.

    Leaf/Rollei HY6: I lusted this system for so long I don't even remember. I just like the way it shoots and it suits indoor studio very well. One question I hope someone could answer for me: Does anyone use a HY6 digital back on their Alpas? I know Alpa makes a very pricey back adapter for HY6 but has anyone tried this combo? Compatibility to my Alpas would be very important.

    Also, does Schneider glasses have similar issues with HY6 backs beyond 60MP? I am looking at the Credo 80. or Aptus 12

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    If you can fire an HY6 back with a sync cable without being attached to the camera, it'll work on the Alpa. The interface is only a way of holding the back in the right position on the camera body. That's it.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    these backs are hard to come by preowned. I also worry about support since the Hy6 is discontinued

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Have put a Hy6 (or AFI as it is also known) back on Silvestri, Linhof and KG adapter plates. It goes fine, a bit snug, and some of these are a bit fussy for going back and forth (Silvestri likes using your fingernails), but the fit is there. The Leaf back goes on a tech camera without a cable. The Alpa plate looks very well made, but never tried it. You might contact Linhof & Studio, they have sold one.

    On the Hy6, the lenses and 80mb backs - not an issue. Contact Eric Hiss at Rolleiflex USA who uses this setup and also is a dealer for the camera. He's got his 80mb back (Leaf AFI 12) dialed in very well.

    FYI - The Schneider glass holds up very well against pretty good view camera glass. Two nice things: focus confirmation works well with the manual focus lenses, thus you can avail yourself to their earlier MF glass with confidence; also any distortion (say in 50mm) is simple, barrel type, readily fixed in C1. The rest of the glass is just excellent.

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    these backs are hard to come by preowned. I also worry about support since the Hy6 is discontinued
    As far as I know the HY6 is kicking and alive

    DHW Fototechnik GmbH

    Rolleiflex USA
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by Poul View Post
    As far as I know the HY6 is kicking and alive

    DHW Fototechnik GmbH

    Rolleiflex USA
    +1.
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Hy6 is definitely not discontinued.

    It was, for a period, very dicey for the parent company (including a bankruptcy restructuring). But all indications is they are now doing perfectly well, in no small part due to sales to China's emerging wealthy (where Rollei is a very strongly regarded brand).

    Leaf is also making new backs for hy6 mount and all indications are this will continue for at least the short and mid term.

    I think the hy6 can be best summed up with the observation that while it's somewhat hard to find hy6 owners, it is far far harder to find an unhappy hy6 customer.

    I'll admit I didn't fully understand until I did my first shoot with one - it's a very nice body.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Hi All,
    Yes the Hy6 is definitely still available and you can still buy one new and for about $1000 less than the Hy6 Mod2. Service of course is no problem on either.

    Doug is correct that they have strong sales into Asia and Russia.

    Also noteworthy, DHW also still offers all the TLR film cameras.

    Eric

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    Member Rollei6008i's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    I switched from 6008i to Hy6 mod2 for about a year & feel very satisfy with it & bought 2 more lenses AFD 80mm & AFD 180 . Many useful functions that 6008i never give. I am using leaf 10R & hoping a 6x6 digiback will come soon.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/5487774...57632572747737

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/5487774...57632572747737
    Last edited by Rollei6008i; 23rd February 2014 at 05:11. Reason: add photo links

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollei6008i View Post
    I am using leaf 10R & hoping a 6x6 digiback will come soon.
    It will not. Sorry
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    It will not. Sorry
    Technical issues or financial issue ??

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollei6008i View Post
    Technical issues or financial issue ??
    Hasselblad and Phase One won't do it as their own cameras don't support 6x6. Then Sinar remains and I don't think their motivation and ability is high enough.

    Technically it should be possible though, we have had backs of this size before, ie the Dicomed BigShot.

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by EH21 View Post
    Hi All,
    Yes the Hy6 is definitely still available and you can still buy one new and for about $1000 less than the Hy6 Mod2. Service of course is no problem on either.

    Doug is correct that they have strong sales into Asia and Russia.

    Also noteworthy, DHW also still offers all the TLR film cameras.

    Eric
    wasn't there an option to upgrade Mod1 to Mod2s? That program has been discontinued?

    Also I hear that leaf backs can swap mounts. does that mean I can buy a Leaf mamiya mount and send it to leaf to get it modified into Hy6?

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    wasn't there an option to upgrade Mod1 to Mod2s? That program has been discontinued?

    Also I hear that leaf backs can swap mounts. does that mean I can buy a Leaf mamiya mount and send it to leaf to get it modified into Hy6?
    No mount swaps to the HY6/Afi platform.

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    It will not. Sorry
    Never say "Never"! :-)

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    wasn't there an option to upgrade Mod1 to Mod2s?
    DHW definitely still offers the upgrade to Mod2 and I can facilitate this for customers. Some caveats however:

    1) Some of the oldest bodies can not be updated.
    2) Upgrade cost varies and depends on whether you choose to go with the all black body panels and which firmware version you are starting with.
    3) Some Sinar bodies may not be eligible for upgrade - please check first.

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Yes, never say " Never" . I agree .

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Hy6 is definitely not discontinued.

    I'll admit I didn't fully understand until I did my first shoot with one - it's a very nice body.
    I once almost went for an AFI but right at that moment heaven fell down and suddenly the future of that body became very murky. Today I still lust for it, the moment P1 drops that awful Mamiya contraption in favor of the Rollei I would not hesitate to switch to P1. The Rollei is the only body I consider to be better than the H series body.
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    "murky" may be more "-ve" thinking , at least , Rolleiflex is still in Germany and not like OTHERS .

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by EH21 View Post
    2) Upgrade cost varies and depends on whether you choose to go with the all black body panels and which firmware version you are starting with.
    Eric,
    Is this something new? I thought they couldn't change the panels. What about the viewfinders, I don't suppose they can repaint those?


    BTW to those with experience with the 45degree prism finder, what is it like? Is it possible to use handheld while holding the camera vertical? I'm wondering if the view is better than the 90degree finder, which is mirror based, and is it more precise for focusing manually.

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Enjoy the 45 finder quite a bit. Good for general use, handhold for sure. Adds some weight over the WLF, but good for inclement weather. Easy on/off. I think it was modified from the 6008 version, with changed mount and internals as well, so its lighter. Eric can talk better about focusing with it; it works well for me. The WLF (and lupe) has a bit more magnification, but there is enough in the 45 to make it quite workable.
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    At the time I used it, I found that the Hy6 was a very good camera, though the back was rather miserable. I am sure they are better now. I had a Sinar E54LV...some liked it, I found the results from the M9 significantly better in every way other than pure low-iso resolution. The handling was terrible, but the color and image character were so bad that I never got on with the files...I always brought along a film back and always chose those images! I don't have a single e54lv image in my portfolio.
    I had a full kit of Rollei lenses and shot on Rollei for a long time on film. The camera itself is well-laid out, easy to handle, and very nice to use. There was no 6060 back when I was shooting (I waited YEARS!!!), but I would say the Hy6 is superb to shoot film on...probably one of the best film cameras ever made, at least for studio or work where weight is not an issue...the camera and lenses add up to a LOT of weight.

    The lens quality is as high or higher than anything else made in the film era...BUT...as amazing as they are, the Leica S lenses put them to shame, particularly in the wides. The 35mm S vs the 40mm Curtagon I had would be a bloodbath. For example, I had the 110/2 Planar on both the Rollei and the Hasselblad 203FE. I shot the Hasselblad version on the S2 in comparison to the 120 Summarit, and the results were not pretty. The Summarit is sharper across the entire image plane at 2.5 than the Planar at f/8!! No, there is nothing wrong with the lens...the S lenses are just in a different league. Sure, the 150mm Tele-Xenar and 90/4 will do better, but it is something to consider. I know Rollei are making some new digital spec'ed lenses, but as the backs get better and better, they become truly necessary to get the most out of the cameras. The older lenses can have beautiful character and very good performance (particularly at middle apertures), but "designed for digital" is a real moniker, at least in some cases. Keep that in mind when you put together a system. I am not saying get an S camera, as from your workflow it does not sound like it would be a good fit, just that if you want to get the most out of 50+ megapixels with old lenses, you are not going to do it. If everything can be shot at f/8-f/16, you are in better shape.
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    At the time I used it, I found that the Hy6 was a very good camera, though the back was rather miserable. I am sure they are better now. I had a Sinar E54LV...some liked it, I found the results from the M9 significantly better in every way other than pure low-iso resolution. The handling was terrible, but the color and image character were so bad that I never got on with the files...I always brought along a film back and always chose those images! I don't have a single e54lv image in my portfolio.
    I had a full kit of Rollei lenses and shot on Rollei for a long time on film. The camera itself is well-laid out, easy to handle, and very nice to use. There was no 6060 back when I was shooting (I waited YEARS!!!), but I would say the Hy6 is superb to shoot film on...probably one of the best film cameras ever made, at least for studio or work where weight is not an issue...the camera and lenses add up to a LOT of weight.

    The lens quality is as high or higher than anything else made in the film era...BUT...as amazing as they are, the Leica S lenses put them to shame, particularly in the wides. The 35mm S vs the 40mm Curtagon I had would be a bloodbath. For example, I had the 110/2 Planar on both the Rollei and the Hasselblad 203FE. I shot the Hasselblad version on the S2 in comparison to the 120 Summarit, and the results were not pretty. The Summarit is sharper across the entire image plane at 2.5 than the Planar at f/8!! No, there is nothing wrong with the lens...the S lenses are just in a different league. Sure, the 150mm Tele-Xenar and 90/4 will do better, but it is something to consider. I know Rollei are making some new digital spec'ed lenses, but as the backs get better and better, they become truly necessary to get the most out of the cameras. The older lenses can have beautiful character and very good performance (particularly at middle apertures), but "designed for digital" is a real moniker, at least in some cases. Keep that in mind when you put together a system. I am not saying get an S camera, as from your workflow it does not sound like it would be a good fit, just that if you want to get the most out of 50+ megapixels with old lenses, you are not going to do it. If everything can be shot at f/8-f/16, you are in better shape.
    Stuart -
    Well put and I respect your insights. I have not compared the Schneider Rollei lenses with the S2, but someone else (PeterA) did and suggested the Leica's were better but not shamefully so. Its likely true, as they are more modern in design by close to 15 years…. and while the AFD Rollei lenses are better, still, the Leica is likely superior. Especially these new wides.

    On a lens by lens basis - here is some user feedback on the Schneiders, most of these MF lenses, not AFD. Don't own all these (I wish) but have borrowed from friends and used at length. All from review with 33mp back and in some cases compared to view camera lenses. Its informal, but then again, there isn't much discussion about this lens lineup, so here's something at least:

    40mm - decent, good center 2/3 sharpness, soft on edges. Not in the same league as 35XL.

    50AF - sharp edge to edge, but has barrel distortion. Can be cleaned up in C1. Have used on line art as a copy lens (!) with good success. f 2.8, so a bit bigger.

    55PC - was out of favor for a long time. With tilt truly zeroed, its good at f11-16, but not for other apertures. Very heavy, but has movements in both directions, plus auto metering.

    60 f 3.5 Curtagon - somehow, my favorite lens. Not sure why/how, but it brings clarity to the game all the time. Some CA if you shoot into the sun.

    80 f2.8 AF - very good, all apertures.

    90 Macro - super sharp. Eric's favorite, but not mine - it compares for sharpness very well with Rodie 90 HRW (older version), but somehow I seem to get caught with a lack of DOF with this lens. Not sure why.

    110 (Zeiss) - older lens configuration, not in the same league for sharpness with the Schneiders, but has good aura.

    150 Telexenar - was out of favor, until dialed in with focus adjustment. Now its a go-to lens, with a lot of practicality. Truly sharp.

    150 f4.6 (on bellows) - lovely tones, and even better than the Tele-xenar. Holds up vs. 150 Apo Sironar for sharpness and tonality. This lens finds light where you only think it might be.

    180 (manual) - not enough experience to judge, but seems to deliver well. Not small. Also f 2.8.

    300 - amazing lens - crystal clear. But heavy and hard to use - as the max shutter speed is 1/500. I've had more "nope, not this time" shots with this lens than any other, but when you get it right, its very good. Spider webs sharp at 50 yard.

    There were also some zooms made - 75-150 and 140-280, which I've not used. I don't think they are quite in the same league as the primes.

    Eric has shot with the 60-140, and while there is barrel distortion at the wide end, it cleans up easily. His shot with an 80 mp back of ducks from about 80 yards revealed feather definition on the ducks…. absolutely too much! THis lens also comes as an AFD, which is really intriguing, if it weren't so darn big.

    Your point about the higher res backs is valid, but Eric's shot with the AFI 12 back (80mp) and I think he's not found any lack on the lenses. He's done many detailed tests, not yet published, and perhaps he'll chime in. But truth to tell, haven't tested it at that resolution - but only to say very strong results on the Leaf 7.

    Your comments on the 40 and 110 are valid. I'm not sure those same comments apply across the whole line up. Again, these comments are for the Schneiders, don't think the Zeiss lenses (of older design) are in the same league. Mind you, some of the Schneiders have different iterations, first as manual PQ lenses (which are most of the above), then some AF, and then finally some AFD. The only AF lenses used have been the 50 and the 80.

    One other thing to keep in mind is that many of these can be bought used in good condition for $1-2k, with only a few more than that. Makes assembling a kit that much more possible.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Geoff; 27th February 2014 at 08:38.
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Hy6 is definitely not discontinued,, It was, for a period, very dicey for the parent company including a bankruptcy restructuring.

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    It looks like Geoff has made great start to a list of the lenses for the Rollei and I agree with a fair amount of what he wrote - though not entirely.

    I've been testing as many of the Rollei 6000 and Hy6 lenses as I can with Imatest and hope to publish a comprehensive document sometime this year.

    What I can say is some general guidelines - the Rollei Schneider lenses are sharper wide open than the Zeiss lenses for the platform though the Zeiss lenses reach the same sharpness when stopped down. Schneider lenses typically have less distortion and also simple distortion that is easily corrected with software - unlike the Zeiss with mustache type distortion curves.

    The schneider lenses were color matched and have the same characteristic rendering which seems to be more neutral than the Zeiss. The Zeiss has well the Zeiss look which some people like. That part is truly personal preference.

    The standouts of the Zeiss offerings for the Rollei are probably the 40mm FLE PQ, 80mm Planar, 110mm f/2.0 (which I think is actually quite sharp wide open), and 120mm PQS (early versions suffer from flare - later versions much better). Oh and the 30mm distagon since its unique to the line up.

    The standouts of the Schneider line up? Well basically all of them! 40,50, 55, 60, 60-140, 80, 80/2, 90, 150, 180, 300 oh and the 1.4x longar which is excellent!

    The 40mm f/3.5 SA is the only one that isn't sharp edge to edge near wide open. The surprise is the 60-140mm zoom. You have this big lens and are thinking do I really want to carry this around? And then you see the files. This lens is amazing! It could be one of my sharpest lenses.

    Most of the lenses (including the zeiss offerings) are reaching very high sharpness values in Imatest. I know that Stuart has written how his Leica S lenses are killing everything but in my testing with the 80mp AFi-ii back some of the lenses are hitting the theoretical limits - .5 cy/px at MTF 50.

    I don't discount anything Stuart has said, however probably a Hy6 camera with 80mp back is going to out resolve a leica S or S2 picture with the same framing. I'd be interested to pit the 60 curtagon or 90mm APO against any Leica comparable focal.

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    Member Rollei6008i's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Highly expecting your document for your lenses !!

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Geoff and Eric make very good points! I forgot about the 60mm Curtagon, and I agree, it is a killer lens. The 80mm AF I had was also excellent. I doubt that there will be any problem using these lenses on a high resolution digital back! I only meant that my personal experience has been that lenses that I had which were very very sharp and well-behaved on film have not always held up on high resolution digital. The purpose-built digital lenses have advantages not only in resolution, but also in contrast, lack of aberrations and so on. This makes sense, of course, as they are being designed for a different medium, and in some cases, decades later! Though the S lenses are better than anything I have ever seen from other makers (I have had a large Hy6 system, Leica R and M, Hasselblad 200 series, Mamiya 7, Nikon etc), this is not about Leica vs the world...other makers are definitely doing this as well...just look at Schneider's new lenses, Zeiss Otus and so on.

    As for comparisons, I have a V adapter for the S2, so I can shoot a comparison of the 120mm S versus the 110mm Planar or the 180mm S vs Hassleblad 180mm V, 70mm vs 80mm Planar, 50mm vs. the 30-90 zoom at 50mm etc. It is not directly comparable, but not so far off in my experience.

    As for the Hy6 with an 80mp back outresolving the S series, of course! Certainly on the center. But if you are using an old lens at anything other than the optimal aperture, I bet you the S shot looks better! Megapixels are not everything, the overall contrast, lack of aberrations (especially color) and corner to corner performance outweigh most megapixel differences, especially between 40mp and 80...being 10 and 24 would be another story...And that's not about being a fan-boy, it's about choosing lenses that can handle the resolution and medium! Put the right lens on the Hy6 with an 80mp back, and you are of course going to exceed the S series in resolution. That's all I am saying...don't think you will get the most from the Hy6 by picking up a cheap 50mm distagon on ebay.
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    60mm Curtagon shot and crop. Iso 50, f16. Lots of water reflection.
    PS - the loss of sharpness in the small crop is due to reduction for the web. Happy to send image at true size if someone wants.
    Last edited by Geoff; 1st March 2014 at 06:21. Reason: note about web images
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Hi Geoff,

    Your mentioned 50 AF , you mean the new AFD 50 or old AF 50 ??

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    The older 50 AF.

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Hi Geoff ,

    The lens offset adjustment (auto save the offset value)also appliable to the older AF (not AFD) ??

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Not sure - as I don't use it. For the manual lenses, I just set it for each lens (they are not the same, you find them by testing your own lens once) and its a pretty quick thing to set - takes about 10 sec. The auto save for the AF lenses is (I think) on the Mod2.

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollei6008i View Post
    Hi Geoff ,

    The lens offset adjustment (auto save the offset value)also appliable to the older AF (not AFD) ??
    Hi,
    I think you are asking if the Hy6 Mod2 will store the AF offset for the AF 50 as well as the AFD 50? I'll check that and report back in a day or so as I also have the older AF 50.
    Eric

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Exactly, sorry for my misunderstanding wordings .

    Thank you , Eric.

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    Member Rollei6008i's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Eric,

    I want to ask a question but you may find embrassing , do you tested that the image(optic) quality of manual focusing 50mm F2.8 PQS is same as AFD's ?

  36. #36
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Just pulled the trigger. thanks for everyone for your comments. Got the Mod2 demo from Eric and an Aptus 12 from Steve Hendrix. It's been a LONG decision: I was going back and forth comparing prices, getting used quotes, and even involved a dealer from the UK! I have to say that Eric and Steve have been incredibly patient with me, both finding time to write and call over weekends, to get me to this place.

    Now comes the 1 week wait.
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  37. #37
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Congrats. You'll be pleased.

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Congrats. You'll be pleased.
    I gotta say I haven't been this excited for a piece of new gear for years. After trying out the Hassey V, DF+, Leica S2, i've decided that this is what I really want.

  39. #39
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Best camera ever with a Leaf 12. Lucky bastard!

  40. #40
    Member Rollei6008i's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Great to hear, One more user of Hy6 mod2 , I always feel lonely here.

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    Re: Considering the HY6

    +1 on the congrats - you will love the system! I unfortunately have not had the time the past half year or so to get my system out, but decided to check in here to see what the latest was. Really, really glad to see we have an official U.S. dealer now for Hy6 / Rollei gear!

  42. #42
    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollei6008i View Post
    Hi Geoff ,

    The lens offset adjustment (auto save the offset value)also appliable to the older AF (not AFD) ??
    Hi,
    I just tested this, and yes the Mod2 does remember the AF offset value for my AF 50 f/2.8 as well as the AFD 50.
    Regards,
    Eric

  43. #43
    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollei6008i View Post
    Eric,

    I want to ask a question but you may find embrassing , do you tested that the image(optic) quality of manual focusing 50mm F2.8 PQS is same as AFD's ?
    The older manual only focus 50mm f/2.8 is different optically than the AF and AFD 50mm f/2.8 and in fact it also weighs almost twice as much as the newer ones.

    My impression is that the newer lenses are sharper, but have a bit more distortion. The distortion is easily correctible as its a simple curve. I have Imatest values for only the AF 50/2.8 as this is the only one I currently own.

  44. #44
    Member Rollei6008i's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Many thanks to your serious reply .

  45. #45
    Member Rollei6008i's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    I walk around the 2nd shop in HK & I just find the MF 50 2.8 , it really heavier as you are saying, I finially bought a new AFD .

    Many thanks indeed .

  46. #46
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Hi Eric,

    I want to know the new Roolei lens - 35mm Flektagon lens PQS , when will it be on production & any prototype made for our vision ?

  47. #47
    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by EH21 View Post
    in my testing with the 80mp AFi-ii back some of the lenses are hitting the theoretical limits - .5 cy/px at MTF 50.
    Eric,

    It's brilliant that you are systematically testing all these lenses and that you are intending to publish your extensive results.

    I just want to correct a possibly misleading conclusion in the above statement: ".5 cy/px at MTF 50" is very impressive for that setup, but it is not the "theoretical limit" of the lens. It is a useful practical limit for that particular system (sensor + optics), but a higher MTF 50 at 0.5 cy/px is both theoretically attainable by the optics and desirable [assuming effective software solutions exist to deal with the inevitable aliasing of details above the Nyquist frequency, when there is no AA filter].

    In particular, your result gives no guarantees or expectations -
    (a) that the lens would hit the same MTF at the Nyquist frequency with smaller pixels,
    (b) that the lens is hitting its true performance limit (diffraction limit), or
    (c) that it would deliver diffraction limited performance at many or all of its aperture stops.

    Ray

  48. #48
    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by ondebanks View Post
    Eric,

    It's brilliant that you are systematically testing all these lenses and that you are intending to publish your extensive results.

    I just want to correct a possibly misleading conclusion in the above statement: ".5 cy/px at MTF 50" is very impressive for that setup, but it is not the "theoretical limit" of the lens. It is a useful practical limit for that particular system (sensor + optics), but a higher MTF 50 at 0.5 cy/px is both theoretically attainable by the optics and desirable [assuming effective software solutions exist to deal with the inevitable aliasing of details above the Nyquist frequency, when there is no AA filter].

    In particular, your result gives no guarantees or expectations -
    (a) that the lens would hit the same MTF at the Nyquist frequency with smaller pixels,
    (b) that the lens is hitting its true performance limit (diffraction limit), or
    (c) that it would deliver diffraction limited performance at many or all of its aperture stops.

    Ray
    Hi Ray,
    Thanks for the input. On some of the tests, the values were actually over .5 but I assumed that I had done something wrong such as overdone the capture level sharpening. I think I came to the conclusion that 1 pixel could only represent 1/2 a line pair at best, so assumed .5 was the max possible. But I haven't had enough time to really dig into this which is also a reason why I haven't published anything so far since I want to make sure it's done really as best as I can. I got some guidance from Norman Korren on capturing the test files and made a test chart 8feet wide to accommodate the higher resolution backs. And your right about the pixel size as well. Norman likes to use lp per picture height as well as cy/px for that reason I guess.

    Couple other potential pitfalls to my testing: 1)Focus distance: The chart is fixed and I try to fill the frame - so this gives only one focus distance - about 2-10 meters focusing distance through the range of lenses. 2) Sample size: I have only tested one or two copies of each lens in most cases second hand. 3) actual focusing on the test charts - this has proven to be quite a challenge in practice especially for the wide open tests. The apex of the focus is apparent - very slight changes in chart to camera distance (1mm) can affect the results.


    Imatest doesn't generate MTF style charts as many people are familiar with. How do you suggest I present the information?

    Thanks,
    Eric

  49. #49
    Member Rollei6008i's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    I have a question about the ' Focus sensor setting " in Hy6 mod2 , -- Full , Medium & small , according to the manual, it is 70px , 50px & 30 px respectively. But, is there any indications which area(s) that I pointed to for the focusing reference points ? ( or , only in the middle of the focusing screen).

    Will Hy6mod2 producing a better contrast screen such like Hasselblad's eariler optical fiber screen(which heard about that is produced by oem minolta) ? It really helpful for better manual focusing.

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    Member jerryreed's Avatar
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    Re: Considering the HY6

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    these backs are hard to come by preowned. I also worry about support since the Hy6 is discontinued
    As owner of the SINAR Hy6 and the Rolleiflex Hy6 mod 2, please accept my assurance that the Hy6 is still sold and supported.

    Jerry

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