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Give Phase One their due--IQ250 high iso examples on DT blog

P

Paul2660

Well-known member
Digital Transitions, just posted this:

ISO Sweep: IQ250 - DT Blog

I can't speak to all 35mm DSLR's, however this is far superior to my D800e at even 3200. The file that DT has posted shows that the shadow area on the 6400 image is starting to fall apart, but the parts of the image that are in good light, are very good. 1600 and 3200 look very good.

It's sad that Phase currently is not offering a competitive upgrade/downgrade/whatever grade from the 260 to this back. Seeing this comparison, I could easily part with 10MP to have the range this chip has. Tech camera shifting is another issue, but that is something that needs to be tested more, and hopefully in an outdoor environment. I would like to see more tests with the 40mm Rod, and the 60mm Schneider.

Long term, it's clear Sony has quite a lead in chip technology. If they are working with Phase One on a full frame that handles tech shifts that would be excellent, however I have to wonder if the next chip will come from Dalsa. They don't have the same history with CMOS (at least in this market) so the question will be can they get the same amazing DR.

Kudos to Phase One, this is quite a back.

Paul Caldwell
 
jerome_m

jerome_m

Member
I fail to be impressed. It is good, but not better than a D800 at 1600-3200. There is a hint of banding in the shades at 1600 and up. The noise reduction gives a strong watercolour effect. Even at iso 100, the shades are noisy.
 
G

gerald.d

Well-known member
I've got a set of shots outside at nighttime from 100 ISO/20 seconds all the way to 6400 ISO.

The 400 ISO shot I've posted here and is also on ALPA's front page right now. If anyone is interested in the RAWs (for personal investigation only of course), let me know.

Kind regards,

Gerald.
 
D

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Jerome,

Before you make any conclusions I suggest you compare a 30x40 print (or a 8x10 crop from a 30x40 inch file) made by a D800 and an IQ250 with your preferred processing and noise reduction settings.

PM me for matched raw files if you wish to do such a comparison.

Of course because the reason having good ISO1600/3200 on an IQ250 is important is NOT to "beat" a D800 in super low light (IQ would have no f/1.X lenses, no IS, can't focus on a black cat in a coal mine) but rather so that someone who wants to shoot medium format (for all the other pros/cons) need not be afraid to continue shooting with it when they hit ISO800.

As a side note, the JPGs were made with shadow recovery, highlight recovery, and exposure/contrast adjustments. Feel free to request the raws to make your own adjustments and analysis.
 
jerome_m

jerome_m

Member
dougpeterson said:
PM me for matched raw files if you wish to do such a comparison.
Click to expand...
You mean you took the same picture with the IQ250 and a D800? Else, how are we supposed to compare "matched raw files"?

I any case, if that can please you, I would expect the IQ250 to be better than the D800 on prints. The technology is similar (Sony) and the sensor is almost twice as big so it should collect almost twice as much light. So it should be a bit less than 1 eV better. This is good, but not revolutionary and not enough to compensate for the absence of f/1.4 lenses.
 
T

tjv

Active member
Nice shot, Gerald.

I've probably missed another post, but what is your considered first hand opinion of the IQ250 compared to your IQ260? (I think that's the back you usually use?) Always good to get a real users perspective on things.

I wish I could afford a DMF back and to test myself, but alas that day is a while off. The arrival of my daughter in February has put a few things in perspective. In the mean time, I will stick to using my Techno with Kodak Portra and scanning with my Imacon 949. I will say though that some generous forum members supplied me with some Hasselblad CFV-50 files to look at and they were stunning, both in terms of detail and colour, even at relatively long exposures. I always thought 60mpx would be my magic resolution, but looking at these samples 50mpx would probably be good enough. I can imagine that the IQ250 would be the perfect back for a good many people here, it's just that there is an overwhelming number of technical camera users on these forums who, understandably, are focusing on the micro lenses on the sensor that might negate it's usefulness in their particular workflow. Whether that be a perceived or real problem, there's not a lot to dislike about the IQ250. And who knows, maybe there'll be a microlensless chip released soon?

Back to Gerald's shot, I guess this is the perfect example of what this back should and does excel at and why the Alpa FPS might just be the technical camera platform of the future.

gerald.d said:
I've got a set of shots outside at nighttime from 100 ISO/20 seconds all the way to 6400 ISO.

The 400 ISO shot I've posted here and is also on ALPA's front page right now. If anyone is interested in the RAWs (for personal investigation only of course), let me know.

Kind regards,

Gerald.
Click to expand...
 
G

gerald.d

Well-known member
tjv said:
Nice shot, Gerald.

I've probably missed another post, but what is your considered first hand opinion of the IQ250 compared to your IQ260? (I think that's the back you usually use?) Always good to get a real users perspective on things.

I wish I could afford a DMF back and to test myself, but alas that day is a while off. The arrival of my daughter in February has put a few things in perspective. In the mean time, I will stick to using my Techno with Kodak Portra and scanning with my Imacon 949. I will say though that some generous forum members supplied me with some Hasselblad CFV-50 files to look at and they were stunning, both in terms of detail and colour, even at relatively long exposures. I always thought 60mpx would be my magic resolution, but looking at these samples 50mpx would probably be good enough. I can imagine that the IQ250 would be the perfect back for a good many people here, it's just that there is an overwhelming number of technical camera users on these forums who, understandably, are focusing on the micro lenses on the sensor that might negate it's usefulness in their particular workflow. Whether that be a perceived or real problem, there's not a lot to dislike about the IQ250. And who knows, maybe there'll be a microlensless chip released soon?

Back to Gerald's shot, I guess this is the perfect example of what this back should and does excel at and why the Alpa FPS might just be the technical camera platform of the future.
Click to expand...
Hiya -

Nope, you've not missed a post...

I only had an hour or so to test the back - mine (well, work's) should arrive next week so I'll be able to really put it through its paces then.

For me, the key thing about this back is not so much that it solves problems, but creates new opportunities.

If you don't need to shoot with the wide tech lenses, and are comfortable using the Canon TS-E's on the FPS instead (I have NOT had sufficient time to test this properly), then I'd say it was the perfect MFDB.


Kind regards,


Gerald.

/edit
Files are now on Dropbox.

CF000217 - ISO100, 20 seconds
CF000218 - ISO200, 10 seconds
CF000219 - ISO400, 5 seconds
CF000220 - ISO800, 3 seconds
CF000221 - ISO1600, 1.5 seconds
CF000222 - ISO3200, 0.7 seconds
CF000223 - ISO6400, 0.3 seconds

This was a personal test focusing very much on a specific personal requirement, so I can't guarantee they'll address anyone else's specific needs, but they may be of interest.
 
Last edited:
K

Kolor-Pikker

Member
gerald.d said:
Files are now on Dropbox - I'm not familiar with the tool, but I think you need to PM me your email address in order for me to share them.
Click to expand...
Assuming you have the Dropbox program installed, you just go into the Dropbox folder where the files are stored, right-click on each file and select "copy public link" with the blue box next to it. Once you've copied a link, you can select the associated text (e.g CF000217 - ISO100, 20 seconds) and paste the link in using the blue globe icon in the post tools, then people can download the file just by clicking on the text.
 
S

shortpballer

Member
You are on the wrong forum my friend. People on here are not looking for iso performance... We see the detail and small differences that set our work as photographers apart from others. The small difference that even clients may never see, but the differences that make us proud to work with medium format.

The IQ250 is a step forward for medium format users. Its not necessarily a step that is meant to move 35mm users to medium format, but rather a step to give medium format users a little more than they had before.

I would personally never give up my medium format look for 1.4 lenses nor high iso. But that's just me ;)

I'll take the look of my 90HR at f5.6 over any 1.4 lens available on the market. Yea I can't shoot it in the dark, but I can't see in the dark neither ;)

And as a last note, I can shoot 1.2 with the IQ250!!!! ... Thank You Alpa FPS!

jerome_m said:
You mean you took the same picture with the IQ250 and a D800? Else, how are we supposed to compare "matched raw files"?

I any case, if that can please you, I would expect the IQ250 to be better than the D800 on prints. The technology is similar (Sony) and the sensor is almost twice as big so it should collect almost twice as much light. So it should be a bit less than 1 eV better. This is good, but not revolutionary and not enough to compensate for the absence of f/1.4 lenses.
Click to expand...
 
Z

Zerimar

Member
I'd love to be able to afford the upgrade from my P45+ to this back to shoot some star trails and some low light stuff with my 100 f2.2.. It'd probably be pretty amazing at doing both. It's around 26k to upgrade to from a P45+ though, huh?
 
jerome_m

jerome_m

Member
shortpballer said:
You are on the wrong forum my friend. People on here are not looking for iso performance... We see the detail and small differences that set our work as photographers apart from others. The small difference that even clients may never see, but the differences that make us proud to work with medium format.
Click to expand...
I am not looking for high iso performance. I am perfectly happy with iso 50.

I just failed to be impressed by the IQ250, that's all. I failed to be impressed on detail and small differences...
 
N

Nick-T

New member
Would you guys be kind enough to put 'Cross Posted" in the subject when the same thread (with the same comments!) is also posted on another forum (Luminous Landscape in this case).

Thank you and have a nice day.
 
K

Ken_R

New member
gerald.d said:
Hiya -

Nope, you've not missed a post...

I only had an hour or so to test the back - mine (well, work's) should arrive next week so I'll be able to really put it through its paces then.

For me, the key thing about this back is not so much that it solves problems, but creates new opportunities.

If you don't need to shoot with the wide tech lenses, and are comfortable using the Canon TS-E's on the FPS instead (I have NOT had sufficient time to test this properly), then I'd say it was the perfect MFDB.


Kind regards,


Gerald.

/edit
Files are now on Dropbox.

CF000217 - ISO100, 20 seconds
CF000218 - ISO200, 10 seconds
CF000219 - ISO400, 5 seconds
CF000220 - ISO800, 3 seconds
CF000221 - ISO1600, 1.5 seconds
CF000222 - ISO3200, 0.7 seconds
CF000223 - ISO6400, 0.3 seconds

This was a personal test focusing very much on a specific personal requirement, so I can't guarantee they'll address anyone else's specific needs, but they may be of interest.
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting those up. I downloaded them all and opened them up in C1P7. They looked superb. The base iso one (iso 100) looked amazing. Very deep file. Super clean shadows. Perfect night cityscape location for a test. I mean, this is the type of shot high iso is not necessary since everyone that takes this shot will be using a tripod and base iso but it really gives one an idea of the high iso capability of the IQ250.
 
K

Ken_R

New member
gerald.d said:
Base ISO is no good for that shot when you're looking to take an image every 15 seconds ;)
Click to expand...
iso200 was very very close. Up to iso 800 was quite clean after that color noise was pretty high. I removed all noise reduction. The color noise reduction in C1 worked very well though. Of course the image starts loosing detail as one goes up in iso but it is very gradual up to iso 800.

For people shots I would NOT feel uncomfortable using iso 1600 or even 3200. Amazing for a 50mp MFDB.

I too was surprised at the edge to edge detail of the 17mm TS-E. Wow. A bargain of a lens since it is basically a Medium Format Super Wide angle in 35mm clothing. Shame that NONE of the Medium Format Camera/Lens manufacturers have ever made a lens like this. And for $2500. There is no excuse.
 
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