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Tethering with the Surface Pro 2: Enabling with the Phase IQ Series + Credo MFDBs

Steve C

Member
I appreciate all the ideas shared on this forum and would like to add to the discussion of tethered shooting in the landscape. For the last six months, I have been using a Sony Tap11 Windows 8.1 tablet in a variety of outdoor environments. I simply put it in a ~2oz nylon tripod tray made by Trek Tech (buy on Amazon) at the end of the first section of my 3 series Gitzo, where it stays permanently attached. If it is sunny, I put a small dark cloth over the tablet in the tray and peak inside to see the image. If it is raining or snowing, then the tablet goes into a 2 gallon Ziplock bag, sealed except where the USB3 cable goes out. The touch screen works fine through the Ziplock. The biggest problem I still have is that the icons in Capture 1 are so small that I generally have to use the pen to access menu options and to exit the program. Also, I haven't figured out how to 2 finger scroll or get contextual menus in Windows without a keyboard. A couple of nice features available in Mac OS don't seem to be present in the Windows version of C1 v7.2. Come on Phase, help us here and Apple, give us a tablet with OS 10! Overall, I am very happy with the setup and the fact that it substantially outperforms both the IQ280 display and Wifi iPad at a much lower upgrade cost. I tend to use the tablet for about half of my setups and certainly any that require tilt or precise depth of focus.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
I've had enough requests that I thought I should make my IQ/Credo Tethering to Surface Pro 2 Shopping List available here.

1. Microsoft Surface Pro 2 with 256/512 SSD storage, 8GB RAM. (Microsoft store)

2. Classic Shell - Start menu and other Windows enhancements is a free program. Optional but I think it cleans up the messy Win 8 interface.

3. Sandisk (fastest) has a new micro SDXC 128GB card. This is good for "back-up storage" or even to boot other programs (slower) like MS Word, when you want to preserve storage on the main SSD.Amazon.com: SanDisk Ultra 128 GB microSDXC UHS-I Card with Adapter (SDSDQUA-128G-G46A): Computers & Accessories It was on special for $119 on Amazon, now it's $199 or more. Not really needed if you get the 512K SSD, but maybe if you have the smaller 256 SSD. It depends on how much you will be in the field. I use a 64GB as my backup in the slot. I also keep a folder of Phase IQ firmware and the Phase Uploader software stored here.

4. Sandisk Flash (thumb) drive USB3---to transfer files to your main workstation for processing. SanDisk 64GB Cruzer Extreme USB 3.0 Flash Drive SDCZ80-064G-A46
There is also a new 128GB thumbdrive available from Sandisk. SanDisk 128GB Extreme PRO USB 3.0 Flash Drive SDCZ88-128G-A46

5. 3 ft USB3: Amazon.com: Cable Matters 2 Pack, SuperSpeed USB 3.0 Type A to B Cable in Black 3 Feet: Electronics

1.5 foot USB 3: Amazon.com: NEW Technology 1.5 Ft USB 3.0 A-male to B-male Gold Plated Cable: Electronics

6. Film screen protector: Amazon.com: amFilm Premium Screen Protector Film Clear (Invisible) for Microsoft Surface Windows RT and Pro/Pro 2 10.6 inch Tablet (2-Pack)[in Retail Packaging]: Computers & Accessories

7. Manvex case: Amazon.com: Manvex Leather Case for the Microsoft Surface PRO Tablet **NOW COMPATIBLE with the SURFACE PRO 2 / ALSO WORKS with both Microsoft Keyboards!** | Built-in Stand with Multiple Viewing Angles with Stylus Holder - Black/Gray: Computers & Acce

8. Arkon C-clamp for tablet: Amazon.com: Arkon Heavy-Duty Aluminum C-Clamp Universal Tablet Mount (10-Inch) (TAB804): Computers & Accessories

9. Type 2 keyboard and the Arc Soft Mouse from the Microsoft Store.
These really are not needed for tethering but do make using the SP2 for other purposes easier.

10. Tripod Stone bag. A cheap alternative for holding the SP2 on the quick. I haven't bought or tried this option but maybe this is something others might find attractive. Vanguard SB-100 Stone Bag SB-100 B&H Photo Video

11. Malwarebytes Anti-Malware. Plays well with Windows Defender. Malwarebytes : Free Anti-Malware

If you happen to find better options or tethering pieces, please make sure to share your personal set-up and experiences.

Ken
 

shlomi

Member
I tried out a laptop (Win Vista x32 on it) with a ExpressCard 34 slot in the past + my Phase One P20.

Yes. I was able to connect this combination (additional power with battery in the back) . Was possible to do a firmware-update this way.
I had installed C1 v5 on it (x32) - but never got a connection with this to my back. I don't know why... :angry:

But I never got waked up a Leaf. With this you need more power than the ExpressCard could deliver.
Ok. You could use this:
https://captureintegration.com/product/fw800-firewire-powered-hub/

But I don't think in the field... :poke: :rolleyes:

I think, there is no real way with ExpressCard + Windows on a laptop / tab with no gen firewire-port.

I think if you want to use a Leaf Back in the field think about two things: a macbook or an upgrade to a Credo/P1 IQx. :deadhorse:
You don't need the hub to power the FW.
The express card has a small power socket on its side.
The power cable doesn't come with the express card - you need to go to an electric store and get/make a cable with AC/DC transformer and AC plug.
Once the express card is powered, the the back works.
 

young'ee

New member
The express card has a small power socket on its side.

The power cable doesn't come with the express card - you need to go to an electric store and get/make a cable with AC/DC transformer and AC plug.

Once the express card is powered, the the back works.
Shlomi,

Are you saying the express card needs external power from a DC source while out in the field? - If so, how did you do that?

Sounds awkward.
 

shlomi

Member
Shlomi,

Are you saying the express card needs external power from a DC source while out in the field? - If so, how did you do that?

Sounds awkward.
I am almost always in a building.
Outside you can try without the power, if the macbook battery is strong enough you can work off it, otherwise no tethering. Generally I didn't tether outside of a building because I am not a betting man.

You can also work off your car's battery, with a simple power converter, or one of those flash DC power packs can also work. I also had a 8*AA casing connected to a DC power plug but I never got to use it. For sure the latter is the cheapest, simplest and easiest solution. The casing costs $3 on eBay.
 
I've been doing the same thing with my Wacom Cintiq Companion since PPE. Surface never crossed my mind.

Had considered the modbook for a while (OSX would allow me to control Profoto Air heads through C1P) but couldn't justify dropping an additional 1k for little added functionality.

To anyone needing FW: modbook is your answer.

Mac Tablet - Tech Specs | Modbook Pro
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Wacom Cintiq was not a consideration for me as the comparable Cintiq is a bit larger and about twice the weight of the Surface Pro 2. It does have some great specs, especially for graphics artists, but a four pound tablet means also using a heavier duty clamp as well. I believe the SP2 has a longer battery life, but overall it is the balance of performance and small form factor (relative light weight) that makes the Surface Pro 2 the better choice, imho.

The performance and ease of USB3 changes everything, and I don't think it's over reaching here to say USB3 tethering options are going to get better yet. Rumor on the the Surface Pro 3 is higher performance and lighter weight at only 1.5 lbs. Wayne may just get his 1 pound tablet sooner than he thinks---it just might not be from Apple, though. ;)

ken
 
Wacom Cintiq was not a consideration for me as the comparable Cintiq is a bit larger and about twice the weight of the Surface Pro 2. It does have some great specs, especially for graphics artists, but a four pound tablet means also using a heavier duty clamp as well. I believe the SP2 has a longer battery life, but overall it is the balance of performance and small form factor (relative light weight) that makes the Surface Pro 2 the better choice, imho.

The performance and ease of USB3 changes everything, and I don't think it's over reaching here to say USB3 tethering options are going to get better yet. Rumor on the the Surface Pro 3 is higher performance and lighter weight at only 1.5 lbs. Wayne may just get his 1 pound tablet sooner than he thinks---it just might not be from Apple, though. ;)

ken
I needed something for editing as well. Using a mouse or trackpad is totally foreign to me - I've been on a Cintiq for years now (12WX since 2009, 24HD since 2013) so being able to edit on the go in the way I've become accustomed (+screen accuracy) was massively important.

Any chance you could link to one of these heavy duty clamps? Just picked up a Tether T :/
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
My search for clamps focused on the Surface Pro 2. The Arkon tablet clamp weighs one pound and works well for the SP2, but it won't work for larger tablets. At four+ pounds I'd be hesitant to use a small clamp, and am unsure of other offerings. Tether Tools is an option, but I liked Nine-volt's Digiplate Lite better. Heavier duty mounting options for sure, and both add more weight to your pack.

You could process or edit on the SP2 as well, but I think most here choose to use larger computer workstations for ease, comfort, efficiency and performance.

ken
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
I read a bit more on the suggested spec's on the Surface pro 3. The screen resolution, will be in the 2550 x 1600, like on a 30" monitor. This to me will be eye strain problems again. That is a jump from the 1990 x ? on the S pro2. I don't know if they will offer more than one screen, I doubt it as so far that has not been the case and that just makes manufacturing and warranty/repair harder.

I like the 1.5lb weight as that gets closer to the iPad retina with the Apple cover. Note, if you add the Lifeproof Nuude case to the iPad (full size) then the weight becomes about the same or the Otter box.

Personally I like the current screen resolution as it's just about right for the size of the screen.

Paul
 

cunim

Well-known member
Thanks to Ken and all for the informative discussion. Today I tried it. Loaded the latest C1 version. Mounted the SP2 to the tray on the Foba stand. LCS in front, camera on right. Now I have a nice cockpit feel as I sit in front of all this.

Started to make images and I was happy. It worked! Much easier to deal with than a laptop, shooting desk, etc. I got out the shooting table and set up a real subject. Started making movements and taking lots of shots to adjust for those. So nice.

And then reality hit. The live view image would not refresh. Just sat there holding an old image. Only thing that brought it back to life was a cold boot of the camera, and that only made things OK for a few shots. For the next hour I struggled to make C1 work with this system and then gave up. Now C1 is not exactly stable, but it was not like this last time I ran it with my Dell laptop.

Things were great for the first half hour or so. I'm hooked. Tomorrow, I will get back into it and try to understand what the hypercritical part is. Could be the SP2 (8GB, though lots of battery left), or the back (need to check V1 or V2), or the new C1 version, or the LCS, or sunspots or..

Oh well.
 

jimban

New member
...And then reality hit. The live view image would not refresh.

I've had this problem too when the MFB battery was at less than 30% charge. Putting a fresh battery in the back seemed to fix it.

jim
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Latest IQ Firmware is 5.11.36

There is also a new C1 Pro 7 update---but I'd wait to see after it's been fully tested/implemented before updating. I noticed that the notes on it refer to addressing Live View.

Live View is "okay" for me on the SP2, but I still rely more on Focus Mask. The SP2 has definitely got me trying Live View more, whereas before it just wasn't worthwhile at all. Now Live View is actually a workable option--far from perfect, but at least with the SP2 I can use it now.

ken
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Like Ken I use focus mask much more than live view however I've found it much better using it on the SP2 than just on the back.

The other thing is I've noticed using live view slows me down which is another reason I don't use it much.

Don
 

cunim

Well-known member
For my work, the key attribute of a tethered computer is that it be like a GG screen. I want to quickly focus far, tilt or swing near, evaluate far... and so on. As you know, it's an iterative process requiring close examination of the image at multiple points. Easy on 8 x 10, a nightmare on digital.

The IQ screen is just too small to use with anything other than a bit of tilt. What thrilled me about the SP2, when it worked, is that it came closer to feeling like GG than any other tethering system I have tried.. I can get a decent zoom going in the main view, and then just drag the navigator box to far and near points while making quick adjustments. Live view is critical.

If I did landscapes I think focus mask would be enough. Or perhaps there are tricks that I could use to make it work in more applications? Getting off topic there. Perhaps we should open a new thread "Making effective use of live view with tethered systems".
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
It's "on-point" to talk about tethering and using Live View with the SP2. I find what makes it unique is the ability to use the touch screen capability of the SP2 as a more usable extension of the smaller IQ screen.

I'm interested in hearing about other experiences in using the SP2, new or novel tethering bits/pieces/tools, and adapting to new workflows----including Live View!

:) ken
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
The more I use SP2 tethered the more I learn and like. I had no real thought that being tethered (just something I never thought of doing before) basically transferred all the functions from the IQ's screen to the SP2 much larger screen. Focus mask, double tappig, and live view are just a small part of whats been opened up for me by tethering. Again I'm a landscape/wildlife/nature photographer not a studio, portrait, wedding, product guy so my experiences are slightly different from the likes of Ken, Cunim, and others.

I had a conversation with Ken yesterday about this. I've kept the IQ back set on black & white preview and use both screens to check the process of the file capture however the more I use the SP2 the less I glance at the back other than to double check battery status.

We need more discussions on live view and tethering here....
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
For my work, the key attribute of a tethered computer is that it be like a GG screen. I want to quickly focus far, tilt or swing near, evaluate far... and so on. As you know, it's an iterative process requiring close examination of the image at multiple points. Easy on 8 x 10, a nightmare on digital.

The IQ screen is just too small to use with anything other than a bit of tilt. What thrilled me about the SP2, when it worked, is that it came closer to feeling like GG than any other tethering system I have tried.. I can get a decent zoom going in the main view, and then just drag the navigator box to far and near points while making quick adjustments. Live view is critical.

If I did landscapes I think focus mask would be enough. Or perhaps there are tricks that I could use to make it work in more applications? Getting off topic there. Perhaps we should open a new thread "Making effective use of live view with tethered systems".
The SP2 form factor is great for working on location. You've got the SP2 attached to a large Foba studio stand. Any reason you opted for the SP2 over say a larger touch screen tablet or touch screen laptop (with more power) on that nice studio stand?

I'm still working on getting a handle on Live View for my purposes. The loupe tool in C1 Pro 7 sounds a good option for your work as well...

ken
 

cunim

Well-known member
The SP2 form factor is great for working on location. You've got the SP2 attached to a large Foba studio stand. Any reason you opted for the SP2 over say a larger touch screen tablet or touch screen laptop (with more power) on that nice studio stand?

I'm still working on getting a handle on Live View for my purposes. The loupe tool in C1 Pro 7 sounds a good option for your work as well...

ken
Ken, I have a a 15" Dell on a rolling desk, monitor on a swing arm and so forth. That is great but every additional bit of useful kit is also one more thing to get in the way. Popular automotive quote - "Simplicate and add lightness".

With the SP2 I just leave the clamp thingie on the Foba, pop in the SP and good to go. May sound a bit silly, but it feels liberating having everything bolted onto the one device that gets rolled into position without a whole bunch of stuff beside it. To tell the truth, I would probably not have gotten the SP2 just for that. I do plan to use it outdoors, mounted on a leg of a tripod.

Oh, by the way, the software stability problems appear to result from allowing the battery in the back to drop to the 20% range. Strange this, because I have a Tekeon battery feeding the back via the FW port, and power coming in on the USB3 port. Why should the battery drop at all? Will figure that out at some point.

Peter
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
That totally makes sense, Peter. Of course for in studio, there are those new big "all in one" type tablet touch screen computers (Dell 18" - 27"), and the gear slut in me starts pondering, "what if..." :loco: Not going there---staying with the SP2!

Not sure of the MFDB battery drain issue. Maybe someone else can chime in here... I guess you could also set the MFDB to receive a maintenance charge when being tethered, which would then draw from the SP2's battery, and if needed, leave the SP2 plugged in? Too many wires for me. Maybe the FW port is not receiving the supplemental charge because you're tethering off the USB3 port?

ken
 
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