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Tethering with the Surface Pro 2: Enabling with the Phase IQ Series + Credo MFDBs

Don Libby

Well-known member
During the spring, fall and winter I'll normally shoot Zero Latency which is a big battery drainer; then when it get hot or I'm in a warmer location switch back to the one-shot cable. I had noticed a battery drain last month shooting in Valley of the Gods and the temps weren't quite reaching mid 70's yet.

All this reminds me that I need to replace a couple of my older batteries.....
 

kdphotography

Well-known member

Smoothjazz

Active member
I have followed you all down the path, and now have the Surface Pro 2 for my IQ 180 back. :eek:
I have just now gotten it set up, after spending a great deal of time getting the tablet set up, and also firmware upgrades.
I am new to tethering, and do not know exactly where to begin. I can open Live View on the tablet and see an image, but I don't think I have it set up right- it looks grainy, and also rotated 90 degrees.
What setting should I be using, and how can I set this up so that it automatically activates when I turn everything on? I don't want to be fiddling with computer screens in the field too much. I am hoping there is an easy way to do this.
Thanks for any suggestions.

John
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Hi John,

Welcome to the next level of Dante's Inferno. :ROTFL:

Assuming that you have all the necessary firmware updates on camera and MFDB, the workflow and approach really is somewhat subjective---and I hope to hear from others how they have added/modified their tethering setup with the Surface Pro---especially if better/higher quality tethering tool options are found. Please share!

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "settings" or that your image is "rotated 90 degrees."

USB3 and the SP2, imo, has made tethering on location simple and quite easy. My initial workflow on location is to set up the SP2 on my tripod using the Arkon clamp. Turn on the SP2. Start C1 Pro 7. Start a new Session and name it---location, date, whatever. Turn on the MFDB. Plug in the USB3 cord. Once your MFDB and SP2 are connected, C1 Pro 7 should recognize the MFDB automatically. It should be that easy. Unplug, plug back in---doesn't matter----C1Pro 7 should keep (re)recognizing the MFDB every time.

Frame your image and shoot away. You should have the full array of C1 Pro7 DB tools available to you, including (and not limited to) Focus Mask, Loupe tool, zoom (double tap with the SP2 digitizer pen is fastest), and live view (enabled from within C1 Pro 7).

You can change the Live View "quality settings" (refresh and brightness) from within the C1 Pro 7 live viewer screen. Live view on CCD sensors is still very limited compared to the CMOS IQ250, but the larger screen of the SP2 does make use of the IQ MFDBs live view more usable. I do not believe that the Leaf Credo firmware has been updated to allow live view yet.

You should not have to fiddle with screens, have to reboot, worry about FW repeaters, etc. The USB3 protocol has made tethering with (USB3 capable) MFDBs easy and enjoyable. Certainly the IQ/Credo screens are the best in the industry, but tethering with a larger SP2 screen simply provides another great "usability" option.

Probably the only real workflow change for most people is deciding how to best transfer their SP2 tethered session to their studio computer system hard drives. I use a USB3 flash thumbdrive and simply copy the session and transfer it to my studio system, for "normal processing" of the raw files.

ken

p.s. Feel free to call
 
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Paul2660

Well-known member
Ken:

In finally got to try this out in the field, and did come away with a few questions, and hoped to ask here.

First let me say, I was glad I had this solution, as I showed up on site, with only 1 battery, (it was already past 1/2), only a 4GB card. Oops. You would think I would check that.

1. My main question is when I got all attached, had C1 open, and the back attached, when I shot nothing happened. I had assumed that I would just start sending images to the same Capture folder I done when I briefly tested. C1 was open on this folder and no image appeared. I had to open a new session to get the images to start showing up. This folder was created as a "untitledseesion" folder and gave all the image that same name i.e untitledseesion02195.IIQ etc. No big deal, however I would love to not have the untitledsession in the name. I did not delete the folder named "capture" so now I have 2 folders, Capture and untitled session. Is there a way to avoid this so all the images will go to the capture folder?

2. As my battery was already at 1/2, I told the back to allow charging at first at low then moved to high. This saved the day, as I stupidly also have the wifi still turned on and that does drain the back. I was able to get in around 90 minutes of shooting before the battery in the back started to blink and cause the usual issues. My question, is you obviously have to have a battery in the back even tethered? I tried to run just tethered, but with no battery and the back would not come on. After the battery starts to blink the USB connection to the SPro2 becomes a bit iffy. So I un-tethered and finished out just writing to the card. Even then I had to power on an off several times to finish as the back would only write one file before acting up.

3. I started with the power setting on the SPro2 at power saver, and this does slow down the image write time to about 4 to 5 secs and slows down even more in a burst. What power setting do you use? I switched to balanced and it seemed to do an OK job.

4. Delete, I was never able to delete an image. I had a couple of mistiming situations and wanted to just delete the images. Selecting the image and then delete nothing happened, tried later just in normal workflow C1 and still nothing. Have to figure that out.

5. Tried to work on a few images, but the colors were a bit off, and the screen/win8 currently is not color managed. At least I have not profiled it. Do you have yours color managed? if so what software did you pick and how is that working?

Observations:

You better expect to get a lot of questions. I was setup in a public spot and people just didn't understand what was going on.

The SPro2 view at 100% is FAR better than the iPad over capture Pilot and wireless, really no comparison. I should have done a bit more homework on this I guess as looking back the 160 would have been the place to stay. The SPro2 is a mirror like the Ipad, but you can move it around most of the time to see it or put your arm around over it. It's easy to place it with the Arkon arm you suggested. Arm is secure and stays put.

The images load on the SPro2 darker than on the back screen, I had noted this also on the iPad, so this takes a bit of getting used to. However when opened in C1 all is fine. This issue can cause a bit of concern when looking at LCC"s

Setup is a bit more time consuming especially when attempting to move, lower, reposition the tripod. The SPro2 out riding on the arm can cause a bit of balancing problems, so I just started powering off the back, disconnecting and then moving the tripod around. This would be the same with the iPad. I need to get the case you mentioned.

Make sure you have the pen pointer in the field, as I quickly released that my finger would cause more harm than good unless double clicking to see 100%. Note to self, go get another one of these.

Currently I have the 64GB Micro card and the copy over time took about 7 minutes to backup from the SPro2 to card 7GB so about 1GB a minute. Not the fastest, but need to double check that write time. Considering an external Flash USB3 flashdrive which should be alot faster.

It's going to take a bit of getting used to not having the images on the back, however even review on the SPro2 is much faster.

I ended up putting the thumbnails on the right side, and taking the tool panel off, then floated the navigator tool on the full screen. This is all you really need to see, check. You can save this as a named workflow. I would love to only have one row of thumbs but could not minimize the view to only 1 row.

More to follow.
Paul
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Hi Paul,

Here it seemed we were all concerned about conserving the SP/SP2 battery life, but you've shown the flexibility of the battery maintenance option to extend the life of the MFDB battery when in a pinch. Nice! Btw, yes you do need a battery in the MFDB when tethered to the Surface Pro.

I've found myself with ample battery with the SP2 so am not really concerned with conserving its battery life. I haven't been using the battery saver feature and simply use the recommended balanced power setting. I also tend to keep the screen brightness up higher, and also use it on the highest brightness setting when outside. Bumping up brightness may address why your images load darker? You probably could calibrate the SP2 monitor, but I don't since my post processing will be on my main workstation, and for me the SP2 screen colors are good enough.

When you open up C1 Pro 7, and then connect the MFDB via USB3, the last open folder or session should be where your images are being placed into. In other words, if you shut down C1 Pro 7, go to a new location, restart C1 Pro 7, you should only have to simply plug in the USB3 cord and all images should continue into the last session.

If not, you probably need to do some initial housekeeping in C1 Pro 7. When you start a new session, the initial pop-up box should allow you to do that housecleaning, telling C1 Pro7 what you want to name the session, where you want the captured images to be stored, etc.

For example, my tethered images folders are saved to the SP2's "Picture" folder. So on the new session box, the location line reads: c:\Users\ken\Pictures Inside, each session is saved into its own named folder for easy transfer to my main workstation later. On the below lines in the new session box, you can set or name the subfolders. My raws or captures go in the "Captures" folder. The "captured name" line is at the bottom. I leave the new window box unchecked. Once you set these parameters, they should remain the same unless you change them. I leave mine set, so for every new session, I simply name the session. I hope this addresses your questions.

Your work space should also remain the same. I usually leave the thumbnails or viewer off to maximize viewing of the tethered image. If I want to review, I will select "show viewer" and my thumbnails are on the right side of the screen. To delete images, select the image thumbnail, and click on the trash icon above your selected tools. You can also select delete from within the file menu bar. These deleted raw image files will be removed and kept in your session trash folder. Others with more experience tethering might be able to offer better use tips!

I'm keeping an eye on prices on the better/faster USB3 thumbdrives. There is a quality/speed difference between so-called USB 3 thumbdrives, and Sandisk seems to be near the top. PNY has a pretty fast 256GB USB3 thumbdrive that I just saw for about $100 at TigerDirect. Definitely better to transfer files---that microSD card is slower and too small for my fingernails to grab.

:) ken
 
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Paul2660

Well-known member
Ken:

Actually I wasn't paying close attention to the screen as C1 did exactly as you said, tried to bring me to the last open session, I just did not see it on the screen due to the reflections. The first shot I took actually went to the correct location, but since I was in battery saver mode, it takes a bit longer to write about 5 seconds.

I did some more testing the other day, and I have set now to go to the folder named Capture One. This is a bit better as the images now just have the name Capture and file number

My big concern about images being split between the card and tethered is not as big a concern as I at first thought as the images still carry the actuation number, so you can dump them all in the same folder, and they stay in order. Not a big deal after all. Plus, it's a lot better to look over the image on the SPro2 anyway. Just don't try to work on them, at least I don't think it's that good an idea as I don't have the monitor color managed yet.

Only issue I have found, is that you have to be careful not to setup so that the screen is getting hit by the sun 100%, as it will cause the SPro2 to over heat and shut down, but at least it gives you a warning and starts to shutdown. I had been testing here in Arkansas in 100% humidity, and 85 degree heat and the sun was beaming directly down on the screen.

The SPro2 does have a fan!! :angel:

Pretty impressed with the battery life of the SPro2 as I was able to get just over 2 hours of tethered shooting with a lot of look up for focus starting at 100%, and ended at 79%. I started in battery saver mode, but moved quickly to balanced.

As much as I would like to say "yes this is great, but the 260 has wifi and it's just as good or close", I can't. I tested again and basically the 2 are worlds apart.

1. Hit and miss wifi connection via adhoc,
2. Considerable drain on the battery for the wifi
3. Viewing the images at 100% is pretty much a waste as you are looking at at jpg and Capture Pilot can't load the view at 100%, you need to shrink view down by as much as 1/3.
4. Time to load the view at 100% can be as much as 10 Seconds, this seems to get longer, the more you work, and the painting of the image is tedious at best.
5. Both SPro2 and Ipad screen are mirrors outdoors, but the SPro2 seems to still have a slightly better and more readable display
6. Having the actual file with C1 sharpening applied, well lets just say, is "priceless" and is a huge time saver (with SPro2)
7. Being able to move around the image quickly and hitting the corners fast lets just say "is priceless also" (with SPro2)

Already found 1 external battery solution for the SPro2 that uses a modified microsoft plug, and may be getting that soon.

Net, I should have waited on USB3 for the IQ160. The 260 to me just doesn't have enough image quality improvements between iso 100 and 400 to make the cost worth it. If Capture Pilot worked faster, and gave a much better preview, then maybe. But really this is for another topic.

Kudos to you Ken, great idea.

Paul
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Paul,

Can you share the information on the external battery solution for the SPro/2?

Regarding value for money, if you don't need long exposure support then I'd agree that the field tethered IQ160 and USB3 really is the sweet spot and excellent value for money (comparatively! :ROTFL: ). The WiFi support in the IQ2 backs is still a work in progress IMHO and Capture Pilot vs C1 Pro on a tablet are worlds apart for image review. The cableless connections are useful but by no means a perfect solution yet.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Thanks, Paul. It sounds like your next project needs to be a SP2 sunshade to help block the Arkansas sun! The IQ260 does have long exposure capability, so it still remains a valid reason to upgrade. (hey I'm trying to soften that blow to your pocketbook). :D

Please do share the external battery solution (hope it works!) which is probably most important for SP1 users. I did find resources that state successful use of the Vagabond Mini Lithium battery to charge the Surface Pro (using the SP normal charger adapter plugged into the VML), but the VML is about 3.5 pounds and probably ok to charge back at camp/car but not to hike with.

ken
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Ken

Sadly I am not even sure the IQ 260 can get closer to 1 hour exposures. I have not taken mine there yet. But based on the exposure that DT took indoors with their testing, I saw a to of stuck pixels on the 260 shot. Briefly DT had some shots taken in long exposure mode and they looked pretty bad. Nothing like what the O45+ could do. I often took my P 45+ to 45 minutes with amazing results. I need to test the 260?here before it gets too warm but my eagerness dropped after looking at DT's testing.

Better solution for me would be the 180 as I could still get 20MP sensor plus.

Paul
 
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kdphotography

Well-known member
Paul,

The middle section of the sun shade measures approximately 7" x 10". This may be all the screen that you need. It fits perfectly inside of the Manvex case for travel. Easily slides into the top holding prongs of the Arkon clamp to shade the SP2. This is the easiest solution.

If you want to add the side walls to your sun shade for more coverage (see post #2 and #18), the side walls measure approximately 7.5" x 7". I left a 1/2" space between the side wall and the middle main section where they attach. Black gaffers tape on both sides to attach. This spacing allows the side walls to flex and move freely, using the Gaffers tape as a hinge. It also folds flat for storage inside the Manvex case. I cut out a notch on the left sidewall for the USB3 port.

Small velcro tabs (squares) were adhered to the bottom corner of the side wall nearest to the SP2. Matching velcro adhered to the inside corner of the Manvex case near the sidewall. A strip of velcro then connects these two squares (side wall to Manvex case) giving the sunshade support and rigidity. (hope that makes sense).

ken
 

jlm

Workshop Member
pulled out some hair before i figured this one out, but when you update your IQ-160 back firmware to the newer version that has USB-3, your old CF cards don't work unless you reformat them.

surprised me: back would not take a shot: tried normal latency, zero latency, power off/on, battery out/in different battery, different CF card, changed lenses (once had a bad PC connection on the shutter cause this), changed storage to CF, Auto, etc. re-formated card in camera: voila. same thing with other old cards, re-format and it works
 

gebseng

Member
Very interesting! Has anyone tried a lighter/smaller/cheaper win8/usb3 tablet like the asus transformer book? ASUS Transformer Book T100 Convertible Notebook Tablet, Specs & More
A smaller screen, atom processor and only 2gb ram, but maybe sufficient as a single-purpose device for tethered live view?
A quick update on this earlier suggestion of mine: the Asus TransformerBook T100 is definitively NOT useful for our purpose. Even though it sports a 64bit processor, Windows 8.x will only work in 32bit, due to the lack of 64bit drivers. This means that C1 7.x can't be installed. C1 6.x can be installed on 32bit Windows 8.x and runs sort of OK on the T100, but does not support Live View over USB.

best,

geb
 

weinlamm

Member
Das onebody know why the surface 2 hasn't GPS? I had a look on it - but without GPS it's not what I'm looking for. Don't want to carry two different types of tabs with me.

My idea was to find perhaps some interesting trees (or something else in this kind) with a tablet - but for this I would need to have GPS. And I don't want to have two systems in my bag...
Seems that I'll have to wait (and hope) for a surface 3...
 
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