The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Help Selecting an Alpa setup.

young'ee

New member
i think you should have a hard look at the IQ250 if WYSIWYG is important
I was thinking that too when i first started on the whole FPS thing - but reading, reading, reading many threads it seems one can adjust to framing/focusing fairly readily.

As well there is the whole SP2 thing going on which is a brilliant idea - i know that earlier backs are FW800 but if this works

https://www.nitroav.com/store/nitro...3.0-superspeed-professional-hub-repeater.html - EDIT - OK this wont work !

then we may be able to adapt a FW back to USB3 and use the SP2 for framing/focus ?

I'm all for an IQ250 5 years from now when they are 10K. I have no issue with spending on the camera and lenses - they will be going strong when the IQ 850 is released - but the backs are way over priced in my opinion. This is no longer 2001 - the tech is mature now so these guys are just milking the market. But the camera and lenses - no problem - it costs what it costs. Quality never was cheap. Electronics age and become worthless. I'm in a high tech industry and the new models just never stop coming. Still, sales make the world go around and these back makers have their costs and expenses to deal with too, so ...who can say? All i can say is i am not ready to lose 20K on a back in the next 2 years. I see the Alpa and lenses as a very very long term investment that i can pass on to my kids and them their kids. Cant say that about a back no matter which side of the fence one may be on, on this subject.
 
Last edited:

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Regarding backs and take this from a guy that had 5 of them. This upgrade process can be killer on wallet. Steve works for my dealer CI and he can get you anything you want new or used. Now if I had life my way when I entered this I wish the IQ backs where out than but I went P25, P30, P40, IQ 160 than IQ 140 and shot everything in Phase at one time or another. I would kill to have that IQ 160 back in my bag as it was the best in overall value and image quality and to me the sweet spot is 60 mpx. I would seriously consider jumping in at least at that level as you will constantly want to upgrade if you don't start there. Be it a used Credo 60 or IQ 160 you won't find that need to upgrade that often . Personally I would jump in at least this level of back and you will be starting at a point where not much will ever be better. And that itch as we all have it won't be so bad to keep upgrading. Bottom line everyone here wants you in a good system right out of the gate as we all been down this road and the upgrade path can be a rough road on finances. Its great that the dealers take upgrades don't get me wrong as its a great way to get a great back but start at something that has real value today. I would just not reach to far back in time here.
 

young'ee

New member
Yep - hear you on this Guy.

Yeah an IQ160 is not so bad, just not going down the road of an IQ2XX - at this stage anyway.

I've not shot ANY of these backs - never even actually seen one in real life.

I also think, from what i have read, that 60MP is about the sweet spot.

I need to get my feet wet. Def going for the Alpa system. Want to order it in the next few days.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
IQ260 has long exposure capability although IQ180/280 has the ability to shoot at ISO35. Regardless, you can't go too wrong with any of the IQ series, which does afford the ability to shoot tethered USB3 to the Surface Pro 2.

Hearing your war stories, I'd opt for the Alpa STC, which I think would be easier to grab and run under gun fire.... :ROTFL:
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Lessee. You're looking at an Alpa Max or XY and an FPS.

Everyone knows that it means an IQ series MFDB is in order.

Go big or go home.

:ROTFL:

(Dante is ruthless)
 
I see a lot of you suggesting the IQ. I went for a P65+ and bought better lenses. In buying my P65+ I got a huge deal and saved enough in comparison to the IQ160 to afford several rodi lenses. Backs are backs... I always tether into my computer, so the screen meant nothing to me.

But if you have the money to buy an IQ, definitely go for it as they are much nicer. I have shot with the IQ280 and IQ250, and both are quite nice. I have not yet had the chance to shoot a 260, but I have heard amazing things about them.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
I see a lot of you suggesting the IQ. I went for a P65+ and bought better lenses. In buying my P65+ I got a huge deal and saved enough in comparison to the IQ160 to afford several rodi lenses. Backs are backs... I always tether into my computer, so the screen meant nothing to me.

But if you have the money to buy an IQ, definitely go for it as they are much nicer. I have shot with the IQ280 and IQ250, and both are quite nice. I have not yet had the chance to shoot a 260, but I have heard amazing things about them.
Whoa---you just bought a brand new RRS TVC-43 and only have a P65+?

You deserve a new IQ260 to go with that tripod.

Go big or go home.

:ROTFL:

(Dante is ruthless indeed)
 
Yea,
I use tripods all day long. My back too. But the advantage of the IQ160 over the P65+ is absolutely nothing in my line of work. I actually believe the P+ series to be more rigid than the IQ series. The IQ's feel like they would break a lot easier and seem lower quality with exception to the screen.

If it puts things in perspective, I consider my back one of the least important (to upgrade) of all my gear. Well can't upgrade my camera or lenses anymore ;)

I will be upgrading my lights before the back...

Whoa---you just bought a brand new RRS TVC-43 and only have a P65+?

You deserve a new IQ260 to go with that tripod.

Go big or go home.

:ROTFL:

(Dante is ruthless indeed)
 

kapil Syal

New member
I'm living vicariously through your quest - and thanks to the wonderful knowledge sharing that this forum is so famous for. I don't (yet) actually own a tech camera, or a MFD back - yet I'm sharing some thoughts and concerns that i have had, during my own researches:

1. I live in India, and the climatic conditions (ranging from Hot and Dusty, to hotter and dustier) with some serious rains thrown in - well... made me ease up on the MFD gear. I don't know quite what the conditions are like in Africa, but do give this a thought.

2. Regardless of how much gear you can afford to buy, and how many Sherpas (sherpas? in Africa?) to carry it - it would be great to have a small bag always handy, with a Core System. For me this would be an Alpa STC, Leaf Aptus II - 10 (for the wide format), a 35SK + 60 SK.

3. Unless you go the IQ 250 route (and it sounds like you don't want to) - you will have to account for some serious long exposure times, once the sun is down. The experts here will point out there are only a handful of backs that do exposures longer than about a minute or two.
Personally - the thought of those clear night skies over African deserts … I'd want serious long exposure and/or high ISO capability. (Or a Sony A7 as back up!)

4. Re: 'investing' in Alpa and lenses, expecting that they will last a long time, but opting for older backs -
Well, firstly, expect the technologies in DBs to change, and maybe, render some wonderful gear incompatible (like some of the great SK lenses are currently out in the cold with the latest 80mp backs).
Second - with the kind of image quality coming out of Sony A7/r and Nikon D800 and Zeiss lenses etc - i wonder if anything lens than a modern 60 mp MFD is worth all the hassle - you know, framing, exposure, focusing, centre filter LCC..

good luck with your quest - i wish it was me :) !
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
There is no way to "adapt" FireWire to USB. It comes up every once in a while on the forum and the answer is definitively no.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I'm living vicariously through your quest - and thanks to the wonderful knowledge sharing that this forum is so famous for. I don't (yet) actually own a tech camera, or a MFD back - yet I'm sharing some thoughts and concerns that i have had, during my own researches:

1. I live in India, and the climatic conditions (ranging from Hot and Dusty, to hotter and dustier) with some serious rains thrown in - well... made me ease up on the MFD gear. I don't know quite what the conditions are like in Africa, but do give this a thought.

2. Regardless of how much gear you can afford to buy, and how many Sherpas (sherpas? in Africa?) to carry it - it would be great to have a small bag always handy, with a Core System. For me this would be an Alpa STC, Leaf Aptus II - 10 (for the wide format), a 35SK + 60 SK.

3. Unless you go the IQ 250 route (and it sounds like you don't want to) - you will have to account for some serious long exposure times, once the sun is down. The experts here will point out there are only a handful of backs that do exposures longer than about a minute or two.
Personally - the thought of those clear night skies over African deserts … I'd want serious long exposure and/or high ISO capability. (Or a Sony A7 as back up!)

4. Re: 'investing' in Alpa and lenses, expecting that they will last a long time, but opting for older backs -
Well, firstly, expect the technologies in DBs to change, and maybe, render some wonderful gear incompatible (like some of the great SK lenses are currently out in the cold with the latest 80mp backs).
Second - with the kind of image quality coming out of Sony A7/r and Nikon D800 and Zeiss lenses etc - i wonder if anything lens than a modern 60 mp MFD is worth all the hassle - you know, framing, exposure, focusing, centre filter LCC..

good luck with your quest - i wish it was me :) !
You hit the secret sauce . Bottom line Nikon and Sony are players and if your taking the under 40mpx path I would be hard pressed to tell you there is a huge difference. Sure its there but so is 30k in your pocket. In today's world I would not buy a back under 50 mpx. I know not a popular comment on the MF forum but I been here and done that and shooting the Sonys now. The only way I would go back is 60 mpx back or more. Look at it this way big money diffrence so make it a big IQ value distance too.
 

jlm

Workshop Member
wasn't there a toughness test on the IQ backs when they came out? i don't think they are wimpy!

the larger sensor, the IQ screen and focus mask, the 60mpx, USB3...pretty compelling
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
IQ backs seem pretty sturdy, but I think an argument can also be made that the case on the IQ1 series is going to be stronger than the IQ2---my understanding that the top of the IQ2 MFDB is a plastic or synthetic material so allow the WiFi connection....

ken
 

Ken_R

New member
Come on guys - STOP IT - STOP IT - STOP IT !! I was set on an Aptus II.....now i'm considering an IQ !
Honestly if you are going to be using your camera out and about like you have mentioned I would not get anything less than a Leaf Credo or Phase One IQ back. They are the ONLY digital backs that have a nice screen. Most other screens are just junk. That is just essential for checking focus. Also, the IQ backs (and IIRC the Credo as well) have live view. It is a bit grainy and refreshes slowly and color is whack but works GREAT for composing images and even for checking focus a tad. The IQ backs add focus mask which is very useful for comparing focus between two or more shots.

I just find it absurd to spend a lot of money on a nice camera body and lens setup only to have to deal with a crappy lcd screen. Might as well just get a budget setup. Obviously for studio use it is not such a big of an issue but for those of us who use the camera mostly untethered it is a huge issue. The Credo/IQ backs changed the game in that regard.

Regarding specific digital back choice it is a bit tricky. If you want the best value and your exposures will mostly be 20 seconds or faster and you will be using wide angle lenses then the IQ160 is the best value right now, then the IQ180. For exposures in the 1 minute or longer range up to an hour then you are looking at either the P45+ (lcd is crappy like I mentioned) or the superb IQ260. The 60 and 80mp have the largest sensors so you will get the widest angles of view with any lens you mount.

If you are mostly going to do cylindrical panos (rotating with a pano head or base around the nodal point of the lens) then the IQ250 is a superb choice since you might get by with a longer focal length. It has the most capability in regards to low light photography at high iso , long exposures and dynamic range (clean shadows) compared to any back ever made, period. Downside is that it is a smaller sensor with small pixels that do not play well with tech wide angles. BUT combine the back with the FPS and the Canon 17mm and 24mm TSE-II lenses and the results reported by some have been excellent.

Of course, money no object for wide angle shots in decent light it is just hard to top the results you will get with the 60 or 80mp backs and Rodenstock lenses. If you are looking for the ultimate high resolution single shot files that is the choice.

Be advised that shooting a back and tech camera setup is a bit more involved than using a dslr but do your part and the results will amaze you I promise.
 

darr

Well-known member
I shoot a MAX with four Schneider lenses and have no interest in upgrading my P45 back at this time, and I can afford to do so if I wanted too. :D

I have read the screens on the newer backs are not that good for focusing, and live view is a joke. Have I read these postings wrong? Why do some IQ shooters use a Surface Pro or similar device instead of their back screens if the upgrade for the screens are worth it? Everyone has their priorities and mine has always been the love for the tech camera and lenses and that is where I put my money. Digital backs will come and go and purchasing a new one is something I would not do unless there was no other option. As long as I produce satisfying work with my P45, I will not upgrade. The magic bullet I am looking for is something that cannot be bought.

You will love the ALPA camera line. I had shot with Arca Swiss tech cameras for many years and had four different Arcas, but once I acquired an ALPA, Arca lost my business. They are both beautifully designed camera lines, but there is something about the "click" of ALPA's engineering that once experienced, is forever remembered, at least with me! :)

Take a deep breath and call more than one dealer for your ALPA. The best US ALPA dealer left the business a couple of years ago. Look for someone in Europe or closer to you in hopes they can assist you better for supply as ALPAs are made in Europe. Have fun!
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
ALPA are more than happy to deal direct with customers who are not served by a dealer.

There's no dealer here in the UAE, and I've only ever had what can honestly be described as "perfect" service from them.

Kind regards,

Gerald.
 

young'ee

New member
Hi Kapil,

Agree with much of what you say - have had very similar thoughts.

Re the heat and dust - yep that's what we have here. I've been to India and i would say you have it worse then us in this regard. Depends on what you call heat - we really only have 2 months a year that heat builds up - just before the rains start. Dust is part of living in the tropics.

how many Sherpas (sherpas? in Africa?) to carry it - it would be great to have a small bag always handy, with a Core System. For me this would be an Alpa STC, Leaf Aptus II - 10 (for the wide format), a 35SK + 60 SK.
Yeah - you're right - no sherpas here Per SE. You're in India - you know the life style - everywhere the British went they left the colonial lifestyle behind them. So here there is a man for every job. I've got 4 garden boys who work in the garden around the house everyday. 1 or 2 of them will be coming on trips with me - to carry gear - setup camp - security etc. So carrying this gear is not a concern to me - i wont be carrying it. But i agree, a smallish set of gear could be handy. I will probably go Sony A7r for that. These cameras and backs are tools - that's why you put together a tool box - to have the right tool for a particular job.

Rightly or wrongly, and time will tell, the MFDB is purely for landscapes where a lot of time and effort is put in to get to a spot and setup the gear - ideal scenario for big gear. Far less people around in that type of situation as well which is a huge benefit of shooting in far away places in the bush (OK apart from the snakes - Black Mambas are a huge problem in the bush here). But there are definitely times when a small unobtrusive camera is the way to go - i would NEVER take the big MFDB into a village and try to get people shots like that - would be a total and complete disaster - would have 200 children and 50 adults all surrounding me asking for money. Stealth is the way to go in those situations. So on this point i agree - a small kit is essential for some scenarios.

As for the backs and which one is right - i have no idea! I can load a 120 back with film blindfolded but using a DB...hmm, a learning curve ahead. I am not against the IQ2xx series - not at all. Its just that i note the rapid deprecation of these backs. We need to have them for sure but that does not make them a good investment - they're not. I have no need or desire to be on the bleeding edge of technology. I think its like buying a CPU - go for the very latest and you pay and pay and pay......then 6 months later you can buy the very same CPU for a LOT less. I am sure there are business cases where it makes perfect sense to buy the latest or a technical case where the IQ250 is much needed - but none of this applies to my case - this whole thing is for kicks. The days of me working behind a camera to pay the rent are long gone.

At this point i dont think i have the need for really long exposures. That might change but at this time i cant see it. In any case there is always the P45+ for that. I really think the sweet spot on these backs is 60MP. Its a shame we cant get FW800 to cross connect to USB3 in some way because if we could then using a tablet for a screen to compose and focus is a brilliant way to go. Alas, its not going to happen. Still, it just means a laptop instead of a tablet - not the end of the world.

I definitely see how the Nikon D800 and now the Sony A7r are encroaching on MFDB territory - but like many have said - its about more then just the sensor. I dont want to peer into a tiny viewfinder and use 35mm camera bodies - i prefer the joy of working with MF gear. Its just a whole different feeling/way to work. I have a long history of working in Pro labs - i owned a Pro lab back in the day. Even with film, there is something abut working with big negs Vs 35mm negs. Prints just had a different feel to them if they were printed from a 6x7 neg Vs a 35mm neg. Not having experience in digital yet i dont know how this feels compared to the old days but from what I've read it seems to be the same sort of thing.

This is one of the huge advantages i see in the FPS system - change the lens on the front to get different "looks". FPS goes a step further.....change the sensor on the back to get different sensor "looks". Start with a P45+ now, cut your teeth on Digital, learn why things work and dont work for you and then armed with knowledge go drop 30K on a back - i think this is a wise way forward. The camera system costs what it costs - like anyone i'd prefer not to spend that much if i could help it, but fact is this Alpa system is in the high end of the camera world - that's going to cost - no way around this , so it is what it is. But the backs are a whole other story - i don't see value here at all. Its jsut a sensor and the sensors will continue to evolve - i'm going to let someone else pay for the cutting edge - i'll happily sit on the trialing edge thanks - 6 or 7 years ago the P45+ *WAS IT* the very best, the coolest etc.....now you can buy them for 5K (seen a number on ebay for that sort of money). I could be totally wrong because i am so far behind when it comes to digital its stupid, but it seems to me the incremental advances from one back family to the newest back family may be only a 5% improvement on the last gen. A P45+ or a P65+ is 90% of the way there in quality compared to the latest and greatest. That last 10% of quality is very expensive - i see no value in paying 500% more to get the final few percent of quality.

The camera and lenses - whole different story.

The Camera system and lens will last a life time - the backs - not so much. Backs will come and go, the lens will be used by my great grand children (if i chose maker wisely)
 

young'ee

New member
OK so scratch this qestion....... search is your friend.

Found this - explains everything .http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-...7-anyone-stitching-panos-mf-digital-back.html



Can an Alpa user (Dan, Gerald, Darr,shortpballer, others (sorry if i missed you)....), explain to me how stitching works on an Alpa (I'm pretty sure i am on top of this but just checking in case I've got the wrong idea).

I can stitch L/R on the STC ..., and on the Max i can do the same amount of stitch L/R but also get Top and Bottom (what is the term for this?) stitch movements.

On the X/Y - i get extra L/R (25mm) and the same Top/Bottom as the Max? Plus the X/Y has geared movements - but is twice the size/weight of the max.

Is the extra L/R stitch ability useful in real life over and above the 18mm of stitch on the STC?

Is it possible to stitch an image L and R and then stitch Top and Bottom as well? - only reason i can see for that is cropping ability - i don't think i will be printing large prints - however one never knows. Given the time and expense to get these images (it would never make commercial sense to do this - so its hobby only for now....famous last words) it makes sense to take an extra 10 mins to get a Top and Bottom stitch.

I've not stitched before so total newb to this. Aim is to get the right tools to do this to an OTT level - whether my skill set ever gets to that level remains to be seen, but i do want to have the right tools for that level of panorama making.
 
Last edited:
Top