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Thread: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Might just shake things up.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    A lot of folks either forgot the Alpa night shot blog post, or they did not pay attention to it. I believe part of this same technology is being used by Phase One on the IQ250, as it basically can see in the dark. Alpa did a great night testing about 2 months ago with Live View on the IQ250.

    Phase One may have decided to keep the regular iso range on the camera to 6400 for their own reasons, however for the Live View to have the range it's showing in the Alpa test, there is a much higher iso being used.

    This was another reason I was tempted by the 250, since it was very apparent that a photographer would not suffer in low light with the Phase One live view on the IQ250, as you do with Nikon on the D800.

    More on the Alpa blog post here:
    02/06/14 Low light viewing of Live View on the Phase One IQ250–most impressive

    Paul

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    I wish it was mirrorless. Then I'de be excited. On the other hand, it needed to be announced with three LS lenses. Eduardo

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    I think the price point of the Pentax opens a whole bunch of possibilities for mirrorless, RF, EVF, etc. type produce and certainly, Sony has shown their willingness to go off the beaten path. Will be interesting to watch.
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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Nice preview at DPreview.

    I've just sold all my MF film stuff mainly because entry to MF digital was so high. Might have to think again.

    I do so like the way Ricoh Pentax and so dedicated to photographers. I have been very, very pleased with the Ricoh GR.

    LouisB
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    3 frames per second until it hits the limit of 10 raw frames.
    AMAZING!

    And 27 focus points!
    http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/engli...eature/02.html

    Unheard of in MFD, up untill now.
    Last edited by Giorgio; 15th April 2014 at 07:02. Reason: news
    Ciao,
    Giorgio Niro
    www.giorgioniro.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Wow one sensor just changed the whole MF industry. Now that folks is revolutionary . Way to go Sony and there is still rumors of them doing a ala Mamiya 7 style body with this sensor. Have to say it sorry but Nikon and Canon are about to die a very slow death. The really interesting part is all this before a Photokinia. You have to ask yourself where's Dalsa and others in this sensor market. I don't know but you really have to wonder where the bottom will fall out and what will rise to the top. Sony is obviously on a major push.

    This is something very significant to the MF market and I don't give a rats arch what others put some silly marketing spin on it. This looks extremely promising at this price point. 15 k and you have a major MF system with 4 or 5 lenses. That's damn impressive.

    Software is a worry though. Let's hope something pops up that is not Adobe based. ACR is just a kludge to me
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    You might as well face it now Guy, this camera is in your future

    Tom
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    LOL

    So is a bat to the head from the wife. LOL

    Painting new stripes on helmet. ROTFLMAO

    Seriously though it is very tempting no doubt and thats a big plus for Pentax as a lot of folks will be also. Good for them too, its about time to shake things up.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    I see Guy all over MF again

    This could all be very interesting. Even a fixed lens RX1R type offer seems feasible. Looking at the EVF in the new Fuji, anything could be possible.

    ...AND video in an MF body...with weather sealing??? Times are changing. I have heard rumours that Phase and Hassey get to cherry pick the sensors, but for 3x the price not so sure.

    While the body is better than any MF body out there, I still think a removable back is very much needed, lets hope Pentax or Sony do it. It could go nicely with my IQ180
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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Way to go Sony and there is still rumors of them doing a ala Mamiya 7 style body with this sensor.
    Damn, Guy, stop your teasing right now!

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    The specs look damn impressive on paper. Definitely looking forward to seeing images from this guy. Although not specific to the 645Z, I wish more MFD manufacturers would go the dual card-slot route like Pentax.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    I wish it was mirrorless. Then I'de be excited. On the other hand, it needed to be announced with three LS lenses. Eduardo
    I already have 2 of them in 75mm/2.8 LS and 135mm/4 LS.

    laopai
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Wow one sensor just changed the whole MF industry. Now that folks is revolutionary . Way to go Sony and there is still rumors of them doing a ala Mamiya 7 style body with this sensor. Have to say it sorry but Nikon and Canon are about to die a very slow death. The really interesting part is all this before a Photokinia. You have to ask yourself where's Dalsa and others in this sensor market. I don't know but you really have to wonder where the bottom will fall out and what will rise to the top. Sony is obviously on a major push.

    This is something very significant to the MF market and I don't give a rats arch what others put some silly marketing spin on it. This looks extremely promising at this price point. 15 k and you have a major MF system with 4 or 5 lenses. That's damn impressive.

    Software is a worry though. Let's hope something pops up that is not Adobe based. ACR is just a kludge to me
    I had the 645D and as a camera body it was / is just superb. It is the only MFD camera that works great out of the box and intuitively for any DSLR user and has little if any quirks. The Leica S is somewhat like that also.

    That said, the Pentax 645 lenses are not great but are not bad, most are quite good at optimum apertures. There are no Leaf Shutter AF lenses though.

    Is it better than a PhaseOne back solution? for some, yes, for a lot of folks, no, but like most things you get what you can afford. And the 645Z seems like a great alternative. Hopefully it shakes things up and Phase lowers the IQ250 price to well under $20k.

    The Phase backs are much more versatile obviously and the tethering on the IQ backs is just a dream to work with (at least that has been my experience). My supervised shoots go much smoother. By design the phase backs can be use on several camera platforms with many different lenses. That is really a must for a lot of folks.

    I also prefer the larger sensor size of the 60 and 80mp backs (I own the IQ160). The smaller size of the 645D sensor is significant. But a lot of people might find it easier to work with a smaller sensor. Like most things it is a matter of preference.

    Overall having another MFD option is really good for us! Bring it on!
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgio View Post
    3 frames per second until it hits the limit of 10 raw frames.
    AMAZING!

    And 27 focus points!
    Feature 2?645Z | RICOH IMAGING

    Unheard of in MFD, up untill now.

    If all of them are at the center, as it appears to be the case, having 27 or 100 do little difference, except in the case of tracking moving subjects (like sports).

    Now, in the other hand, the camera is not only superior (in paper) to any other MF camera by a long margin, but competitive with the best DSLRs.

    The second question is the lenses, there is little point in a 50mpixels if the sensor /camera combination delivers 25mpixels.

    When released, If the lenses are good and the camera delivers, new buyers acquiring the H5D-50c or the IQ250 will need very specific needs (and we know some) to buy them, under the shadow of looking like Hasselblad Lunar buyers.

    Best regards,
    J. Duncan

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    This is probably bad news for Phase One. Very.

    I expect their never arriving new camera will have to go back and be reworked again, (3FPS? Multi point AF? Weatherproof? Quiet shutter? and... Price!!)

    Then the price of the IQ250 reviewed heavily downwards (expect some special offers/discounts soon) and even then not at 3fps. I'd imagine a new version of this back at Photokina with better features.

    I can't imagine many newcomers to MF spending $35,000+ on a Phase Outfit when this is on the table at $8500, with substantially better features. Really, the writing is on the wall for a major upheaval. And I say all this as a Phase owner of 3 backs over 8 years.
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Well its about time for MF market for another shakedown, IMHO.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    This is the semi-annual "writing on the wall" for Phase One.
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Well it will put pressure on them more in the area to actually give us a new body. This Pentax does a lot of nice things that only a DF on steroids could think about. Here is where Phase has a real issue. They need that new body now. I just read the specs on the Pentax and it's damn impressive for MF. Lots of very useful features that are unique to MF but pretty standard with 35mm companies. There are some real firsts here. The body as it is today will hurt Phase I have no doubt about that, so they really need that improved body. Backs are really not the issue at all as they are very full featured. The IQ 250 really lacks for nothing. They just need a body to go with it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    If you only read the forums the following cameras were destined to end Phase One's dominance in high-end photography:
    - Canon 1D
    - Canon 1Ds III
    - Canon 5D II
    - Nikon D800/E
    - Mamiya ZD
    - Red Epic
    - Red's roadmapped-but-never-shipped 6x17 camera
    - Pentax 645D (first gen)

    None of this is a slight against the 645Z. Just a reminder that, according to forums the sky is constantly falling, whereas according to public balance sheets Phase One's sales volume and profitability have increased every year since the financial crises.

    There is definitely room for more than one successful 50mp camera. In fact, the availability of more than one is almost surely a net-positive for all of them. That is to say, every time Phase, Hassy, or Pentax advertise their medium format offerings it raises interest and awareness that there is something above/beyond the commodity Canon/Nikon offerings.

    Remember, medium format is not fighting for 50% of the total market, or even 5% of the total market. They are fighting for a sliver at the top of the top, so growth/success is less about beating out the other medium format players and much more about reaching the 95%+ of serious photographers who assume they don't want/need/desire medium format because they've never used it or the last time they used it was many years ago.

    Look at Ken R: it was the Pentax 645D, at their attractive cost of entry, that brought him into medium format, but he ended up selling it and getting a Phase One. Would he have tried the (more expensive) Phase One system if he hadn't waded into the waters more gently with the Pentax first? I guess you'd have to ask him, but my bet is no. Many of our customers are like this. They end up with an IQ180 or similar as a result of a "gateway" system (D800, Pentax 645, entry-level p1 back) which whets their pallets for better image quality.

    Dante's inferno indeed.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    even if phase comes up with an competitive new body.
    there is still the humongous price difference.

    8.5k vs. maybe something around 40k for an not even announced body.
    thats one expensive über body, and focus mask of course!... 30k.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Doug lets be a little real here they also had nothing really much to compete with either so they have enjoyed the success and good for them and no one will ever say there backs are not the best in class, thats a given and we all agree. But that DF does not help there cause and we all know that too. They other fact is money is money and there is zilch of loyalty when it comes down to the almighty dollar. They can keep anyone at bay with a new body but lets also say there has not been a new body like this that has some of these feature sets we have never seen in MF, that alone can cross breed people. And lets be honest it will make people think before dropping there mother load too as nothing like this has been around in the past, so Phase can stay on top but this will undercut them some just like every damn photographer out here in the free world gets undercut daily by cheaper shooters. I know I deal with that constantly and when the rubber hits the road for us Pros we are looking for deals too. Not always but we need to watch our P&Q's too. The bottom line here nothing from anyone has come out with some powerful features yet until this and just the AF points alone which drives us all up the wall is pretty powerful. Its time to wake up and get that damn new body out the door. Promises only last so long

    Now I say that having owned 5 Phase backs and every body they made if that choice came today and I am a fan of Phase we all know that BUT and there is a big BUT here now. This is revolutionary in this market and that speaks loudly.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn View Post
    8.5k vs. maybe something around 40k for an not even announced body.
    thats one expensive über body, and focus mask of course!... 30k.
    And...
    - P1's color look when coupled with C1
    - an entire line of modern autofocus leaf shutter lenses
    - sync speed of 1/1600th
    - availability of overnight loaner warranty
    - availability in rental
    - knowledge of techs/assistants on a particular system
    - buffer depth
    - tethering speed, stability, tethering features
    - availability of vertical grip (very useful for catalog houses where often for hours each day you shoot nothing but verticals)
    - compatibility with tech cameras
    - compatibility with view cameras
    - on camera features like focus mask, customizable exposure warning, customizable/movable grids/guide

    etc

    Again - not saying the 645Z isn't a nice camera. I'm just pointing out that there are many attributes of a camera; a point nearly all threads like this seem to miss. In some of them the Pentax 645Z will suit some users better; in other attributes the P1 system will suit some users better.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Some samples on Flickr

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/13877295864

    Downloaded the full-size files (they are slightly cropped) and look pretty good in C1.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    just saying...
    for most of us, there will be a limit of what we are willing to pay for what ever feature. most people will think even harder than ever before, given the features and 30k.

    im in the mfdb market just for the movements, so i will never get a pentax.
    im happy with that old back that i bought on the used market, two years old, 900 exposures by the original owner, not a single scratch... for 1/3rd of the retail price.

    others need the flash sync or whatever feature and "need" to shell out several thousands of dollars to do their job. and they probably don't even care about it, as long as it saves them from running into trouble!

    others will love or need those af points pentax is offering now.
    just buy three of them for peace of mind and still save some cash...


    the game hasn't changed, its the options that have changed.
    a lot.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Phase One has an entirely different business model and way of developing cameras, they don't have any mass market cameras to borrow tech from. It costs a lot more money for them, and thus a lot more money for their customers.

    I think there are quite many customers where 8k vs 40k actually don't matter too much, and Phase One can survive on that -- but to do so they must have a better offer than the competition. They do have a number of good features, but now with the 645Z I don't think IQ250+645DF+ is the best way to show it. IQ260 on an Alpa shooting architecture, then we have something that differs.

    I have a hard time seeing why a wedding photographer would choose a IQ250 instead of a 645Z, even if the 645Z would be the more expensive system. Some will still do of course, but l think the 645Z may become an even tougher competitor than the D800 was.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    If you only read the forums the following cameras were destined to end Phase One's dominance in high-end photography:
    - Canon 1D
    - Canon 1Ds III
    - Canon 5D II
    - Nikon D800/E
    - Mamiya ZD
    - Red Epic
    - Red's roadmapped-but-never-shipped 6x17 camera
    - Pentax 645D (first gen)
    Sorry Doug but all of those cameras you list did have a major effect on what professional photographers purchased and a great many did drop MFD in favour of these smaller but much highly specified and flexible formats.

    Phase have been fortunate that while Pros have been leaving in droves, many well heeled amateurs and dedicated enthusiasts have replaced (surpassed) their numbers and boosted Phase Ones balance sheet enabling Phase to continue to develop a really great range of digital backs.
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    @Doug,

    while a lot what you say about Phase is correct, I am not sure the customer intimacy and service are where they should be for the price point. I do speak from personal experience, and in a lot of cases, the gap is filled by the dealers.

    For numbers in the 6 figures, I expect to at least get a straight answer.

    Now at 8.5K, I will be a far more patient man

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Last word from me as i don't want to get took far into this but after leaving MF awhile back this has been the first thing that has opened my eyes towards MF since than. I simple can't get back to the dollars it takes but this opens a door slightly and Im hoping this turns out to be a winner. MF needs a shot in the arm and this is good for the industry and bottom line for me is I NEED this industry to survive. Nikon and Canon look pathetic and its making me nervous. Good luck folks
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Service is not as good everywhere. In Europe the market is so fragmented that dealers are tiny and are only used to very specific use cases. Trying out a tech cam and get good advice for that here in Sweden -- good luck. As a user around where I live you actually need a forum like this to get any decent support and advice.

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    Senior Member Chris Giles's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Biggest issue I have with Pentax. Customer support and servicing.

    Hasselblad is about 6 weeks when it needs to go off.
    Phase (no idea I'm Hassy)

    Canon CPS there and back in four days for anything big or small.

    I can see myself using the 645Z for weddings, like the couple shots but then I may not be bothered and even more so, I may just wait for Nikon to release something MF.

    Because I do think it's on the cards. As it's already been said, Sony just shook everything up and will want to sell as many sensors as possible.

    I would like to know what's being said in Canon HQ right now and I'm sure both Canon and Nikon will be watching the 645Z's progress into the market closely.
    Chris Giles Photography

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Even if this new Camera does not fit to an HCam - I fullheartedly welcome this new piece of hightec ! While reading through the specs I started drooling - did you see the Multiexposure stuff ? I mean - really - huh what ?
    __________________________________________________ ________
    Select the composite mode according to your expressive intentions
    Multi-exposure


    Set the amount of shots (from 2 to 2,000) and merge them into a single image. Each time the shutter button is pressed, exposure is adjusted and images are merged, and you can check the results in detail on the LCD screen. You can select the composite mode from three options to match your varied expressive intentions.
    [Composite Mode]
    ● Average
    Creates a composite image with the average exposure. You can easily enjoy multi-exposure photography without adjusting the exposure for each shot
    ● Additive
    Creates a composite image of the cumulatively added exposure.
    ● Bright
    Compares each shot, selects the bright sections and merges those selected sections. Because the dark sections are left as-is, this is effective for photographing the moon, fireworks, or illuminated buildings and other objects when you want to highlight the contrast.
    __________________________________________________ ______

    I salute great engineering, if this is on normal japanese large series standard (which I don´t doubt much) the best thing about service will be: not needed much of it.

    Damn, this is a cool camera..... and even if they would have sold it for 50% more it would be nice, but 8000€ incl. VAT ? Jeeeez.....

    Greetings from Germany
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    ●_________________________________________________ _______

    ..........I salute great engineering, if this is on normal japanese large series standard (which I don´t doubt much) the best thing about service will be: not needed much of it.......................

    Greetings from Germany
    Stefan
    +1. I would like to see Pentax restore their repair facility in Colorado for US owners, but after 3.5 years with the 645D I have needed service exactly zero times.

    Tom
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    I have been out of the mix for a while, though having owned a 645D and going through almost a dozen used 645 FA and A lenses, I did end up with a very usable system for my needs though when I had the opportunity at the time, now almost 4 years ago to get into a Tech View camera, I have never looked back.

    Fast forward to today, the new 645Z looks very tempting, yet I am worried about QC for all the lenses Ricoh has re released also at a substantial price. 50mp very demanding on the glass. I was just looking on ebay for 645 lenses and they are all still priced very low, Though buyer beware, based on what I use to own, the 35/3.5 A lens, FA 75/2.8 45-85 FA zoom, FA 120 macro and FA 300/4 lens these may all work with the new sensor though I am sure only at optimal aperture.

    Maybe Ricoh will put in place a much higher QC in place yet I doubt it.

    Call me old school but I still like the look of CCD over CMOS no matter what the mp is. For me being a base ISO shooter the look of CCD has always appealed to me.

    50mp is intoxicating with real LV, wow, if Ricoh could have only ditched the OVF for EVF then wow, I maybe very tempted, though now having a tilting LCD and a good loupe, very interesting.
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Last word from me as i don't want to get took far into this but after leaving MF awhile back this has been the first thing that has opened my eyes towards MF since than. I simple can't get back to the dollars it takes but this opens a door slightly and Im hoping this turns out to be a winner. MF needs a shot in the arm and this is good for the industry and bottom line for me is I NEED this industry to survive. Nikon and Canon look pathetic and its making me nervous. Good luck folks
    Guy, all you say is true and I agree with it, but there is one thing that cannot be overlooked. As you know I am a big fan and a user of the Pentax 645D system. It's performance and operation has been near flawless but Pentax's USA service on their medium format products has been virtually non existant. It's something to keep in mind and hopefully this too will be addressed by Ricoh.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    I have been out of the mix for a while, though having owned a 645D and going through almost a dozen used 645 FA and A lenses, I did end up with a very usable system for my needs though when I had the opportunity at the time, now almost 4 years ago to get into a Tech View camera, I have never looked back.

    Fast forward to today, the new 645Z looks very tempting, yet I am worried about QC for all the lenses Ricoh has re released also at a substantial price. 50mp very demanding on the glass. I was just looking on ebay for 645 lenses and they are all still priced very low, Though buyer beware, based on what I use to own, the 35/3.5 A lens, FA 75/2.8 45-85 FA zoom, FA 120 macro and FA 300/4 lens these may all work with the new sensor though I am sure only at optimal aperture.

    Maybe Ricoh will put in place a much higher QC in place yet I doubt it.

    Call me old school but I still like the look of CCD over CMOS no matter what the mp is. For me being a base ISO shooter the look of CCD has always appealed to me.

    50mp is intoxicating with real LV, wow, if Ricoh could have only ditched the OVF for EVF then wow, I maybe very tempted, though now having a tilting LCD and a good loupe, very interesting.
    Steven and I have been through the teething pains of the 645 optics on the 645D body and I too doubt that QC for each lens sample is going to change very much.

    I too completely agree with Steven that the look of the CCD is quite unique and have some concerns that the CMOS based 645Z won't quite match the image characteristics that some of us cherish about CCD based sensors. The 645D at base ISO had a look that I found particularly attractive and natural. I look forward to working with images from the 645Z and their similarities and differences.

    Dave (D&A)
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Dave,
    Maybe next year I will come out to DC for cherry blossom festival and shoot the 645Z and do a side by side comparison with the 645D.
    Apparently this was a good year for the cherry's of course the year I go with you sucks... Figures not your fault though :-)

    Question, have you seen the new prices on B&H for the re released FA lenses? Wow !! Not cheap. It will be interesting to see of Ricoh has re formulated any of the FA glass. Probably not....
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    Dave,
    Question, have you seen the new prices on B&H for the re released FA lenses? Wow !! Not cheap. It will be interesting to see of Ricoh has re formulated any of the FA glass. Probably not....
    I was curious about prices for the Pentax 645 FA lenses as well. Dave mentioned that the current prices are very similar to what these lenses sold for in the past, when Pentax USA offered them for sale with the 645 film cameras. I just had a look at the prices of the few legacy Mamiya 645 AF lenses available (ie not the "D" versions). Prices of the Pentax 645 FA lenses are very competitive with the Mamiya 645 AF lenses. Pentax also offers many more lenses in this relatively affordable price range than Mamiya does.

    Just one example...at B&H Photo, the Mamiya 645 35mm AF lens is priced at $2,490 while the Pentax 645 35mm FA lens is priced at $1,597.

    Once again, Pentax is setting down a marker for "value priced" medium format cameras....now in the digital realm.

    Gary
    Last edited by bensonga; 15th April 2014 at 20:08.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Some samples on Flickr

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/13877295864

    Downloaded the full-size files (they are slightly cropped) and look pretty good in C1.
    I was expecting to be blown away by these full size samples, but to me they look lackluster. Is it just me?
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Hi Brad. I certainly wasn't blown away by these sample images either. I did download and print a couple of the images on 13x19 inch paper and they look pretty good. I'm looking forward to seeing some better images in the future...perhaps from GetDPI members. Any volunteers?

    Gary

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    For many 8K or 30K price makes no difference. Both are too high. We are forgetting that the most expensive consumer level DSLRs are 3k and average amateur or pro photographers are not willing to pay more for a camera. That's why I think that this Pentax will not change much in DSLR market.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Samples look very "digital", like NR is too high and detail is lost, or JPG compression has ruined the subtle tone? Is that just me?

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    as a pentax owner both dslr and 645d am very happy to hear this new. the camera seems fabulous but i want check the samples to see if the ccd magic is gone.
    anyway i think i will buuy the camera in the medium future.
    in my opinion pentax can change the market really with three fundamental steps

    1- produce new lenses at affordable cost. if they can produce camera at 1/4 the cost they can lower a bit the price. The fa lenses are amazing, not all but most, but they shall introduce maybe new fa with silent focus and stabilizer.
    2-Leaf lenses. They had in the past. we don't need every lens in the line up with leaf capability, just the 35 55 75 and 120 or 150. the original lenses cost new 1000 to 1900 dollar. make them 500 more expensive for leaf version, like phase one and pentax line hop will be great
    3-lot of cheap solution for medium format in the used market. thousand of medium format camera who wait the right inexpensive back. if they can sell a complete camera for less than 8400 dollar at starting price, we must expect the sony sensor can be as low as 1000 dollar. they have all the technology to produce a digital back to be used with old 645 n cameras and many other medium format camera, included view and tech camera. do different version for different sensor. starting at 10000 for the 80 million pixel to 4500 for the 50 million.
    4- improve support system.all in all i have the 645d and never had problems. in addiction with the same money of iq250 you can buy three 645z so no problem to leave without body for an important job. the need for fast support will become irrelevant.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Samples look very "digital", like NR is too high and detail is lost, or JPG compression has ruined the subtle tone? Is that just me?

    i agree but it must be the compression.
    anyway i suspect the cmos sensor will kill all the magic from the ccd sensor has i was used with the 645d. is sony is cmos, we will have a kind of image with great dr shadow recovery, but less capability of managing highlight especially specular. i have not seen raw samples from phase or gassy but i suspect the sony sensor will produce similar images of sony ff or apsc with just more resolution.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Samples look very "digital", like NR is too high and detail is lost, or JPG compression has ruined the subtle tone? Is that just me?
    I sure do hope no one's forgotten the A7r launch, when all everyone did was complain about the soft, digital-looking sample images coming from beta hardware?
    The truth will come when ordinary people start getting their hands on retail units.
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    The first sample pictures always suck, regardless of camera. Canon and Nikon are the true experts of dissappointing samples at product launch, but other manufacturers are not far behind

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    This is why I am cautiously optimistic about the CMOS based 645Z vs the current CCD 645D. I recall the excitement I had when the Leica M240 was annoyed with its plethora of features and new higher ISO performing CMOS sensor. Unfortunately I thought like some others some aspects of image quality were lost when compared to the previous CCD based M9. Of course trade offs when all things are considered when certain cameras are upgraded from CCD to CMOS (in my opinion and from comparative observations made).

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    Dave,
    Maybe next year I will come out to DC for cherry blossom festival and shoot the 645Z and do a side by side comparison with the 645D.
    Apparently this was a good year for the cherry's of course the year I go with you sucks... Figures not your fault though :-)

    Question, have you seen the new prices on B&H for the re released FA lenses? Wow !! Not cheap. It will be interesting to see of Ricoh has re formulated any of the FA glass. Probably not....
    Steven,

    I was just down at the Tidel Basin the other day to view the trees and unlike last year when we went (which was a rare bust in terms of blooming), this year was good, but still a bit subpar. I was thinking of you and hoping we'd be able to get together some year and meet again to go down. So hopefully next year is the year we're armed with the 645D and/or 645G.

    As for B&H prices on lenses, I haven't looked at them yet, simply the prices Ricoh posted for the FA lenses they will offer. Most from what I recall are approx 20-25% higher than their last selling price when imported into the US...but there are exceptions of course. I don't expect any changes to the optical formula or coatings but maybe a bit better attention to final adjustment of the lens for adjustment and accurate focusing on the 645 D &G.
    Just doing this would go a long way to improving their performance on these digital bodies even with their current design.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 16th April 2014 at 06:12.

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    Senior Member Chris Giles's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax 645Z - oh boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    The first sample pictures always suck, regardless of camera. Canon and Nikon are the true experts of dissappointing samples at product launch, but other manufacturers are not far behind
    Ohhh yeah, so true.
    Chris Giles Photography

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