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New H5D -50c

TimothyHyde

Subscriber Member
Thanks to Steve H and the good folks at CI, I now have my H5D-50c. After a couple of days of shooting, I posted links to these images on a Hassey board, but thought they might be of interest to somebody here.

Here are a few without any adjustments at all, straight out of LR5. All were shot with the H5D-50c and HC100. The file names identifies the camera settings (e.g., the first was shot in the sun at ISO 100, f/7.1, at 1/800th.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/sun_iso100_f7one_800th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/shade_iso3200_f14_750th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/shade_iso3200_f5_400th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/shade_iso800_f7one_750th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/shade_iso400_f4five_800th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/mixed_iso3200_f20_640th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/mixed_iso1600_f14_640th.jpg

This last one I'm going to re-shoot with side by side with my H4D-60 before I send it off to Atlanta (trade for the H5D-50c). I have been trying to shoot this sculpture, The Pedlar, at the Hirshhorn for years. It is my sense that I've never been able to get it so cleanly before, and able to get the entire range of tonalities from highlights to shadows. That's my impression, anyway. It was shot in morning light at ISO 1600 (forgot to reset it from last night), cropped with some tweaks in LR5, HC50II.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/cropped_iso1600_f16_750th.jpg
 

jerome_m

Member
Thank you for the post. I would say that the level of noise at 3200 on these pictures is comparable to the level of noise at 1600 on the 31 or 40 mpix sensor (i.e. the sensors with micro-lenses). The colours are also a bit different to what I am used to.
 

Jay Emm

Member
Thanks to Steve H and the good folks at CI, I now have my H5D-50c.
Awesome! Very interested to learn more as you get to grips with the new camera. Am weighing the pros and cons - slight concern the color may be different to the wonderful CCD output so keen to hear your thoughts? Is True Focus II noticeably better than TF 1? (Which I find remarkable).

Thanks!
Jay
 

TimothyHyde

Subscriber Member
I've been asked for some comparisons between the H4D-60 and the H5D-50c. These first three pairs were shot at ISO 100 (which is base ISO for the H5D-50c; base for the H4D-60 is ISO50). All were shot within a minute of each other, and from the same stationary tripod. These are all straight out of LR5 with no corrections or sharpening.

With the HC 100
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/h4d60_iso100_f11_45th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/h5d50c_iso100_f11_40th.jpg

With HC 50 II
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/h4d60_iso100_f8_15th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/h5d50c_iso100_f8_15th.jpg

With HC 50 II
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/h4d60_iso100_f8_125th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/h5d50c_iso100_f8_125th.jpg

When I first used the new camera I had the impression that the colors were hotter--a little more saturated and vibrant--than my older rig, but this isn't evident when you compare them side by side at ISO100. The H4D-60 exposes 2/3 of a stop higher than the H5D-50c across all settings, but this is probably due to normal camera variation. I'll be damned if I can tell any difference in resolution or sharpness between these two cameras. The major differences are, of course, the crop factor and the ability of the H5D-50c to sing at higher ISOs.

If anyone is interested, I'll continue to posts comparisons, next at higher ISO and faces.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Personally, I'd like to see more.

From these samples, the first ones in each comparison seems to show a bit more detail and separation of subtile tones and color. Maybe due to the slight exposure difference? Or, assuming the 1st images were from the 60, is it due to a larger sensor and a bit more resolution?

However, the 50 looks promising given that it expands the ISO possibilities.

That new 50-II certainly is a great lens, I loved mine … hate to see it get cropped.

Either way, terrific tools to work with!

- Marc
 

RVB

Member
Thanks for posting these Tim,I've only looked at the HC50ii shots so far but the 60 seems to pack more resolution,perhaps the focus is slightly off on the cmos shot?

Rob
 

TimothyHyde

Subscriber Member
Here are two more pairs with the HC100. The first set was handheld. Interesting, even though the H4D-60 was 180th (as compared to 160th with the CMOS) it ran out of room with the highlights. Again, the 60 is at least 2/3 of a stop brighter than the 50.

Also interesting, I'm shooting Daylight WB. With the H4D-60, that converts to 5700 and 12 (temp and tint). With the H5D-50c it is 5900 and 26.

Manual:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/3_h4d60_iso100_f8_180th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/3_h5d50c_iso100_f8_160th.jpg

Aperture:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/3_h4d60_iso400_f11_50th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/3_h5d50c_iso400_f11_40th.jpg

None of these shots have been in exactly controlled setups, so they should be considered fairly preliminary and taken with a couple of grains of salt.

Finally, I'll shoot some deep shadows and low light conditions for comparisons.
 

jduncan

Active member
Here are two more pairs with the HC100. The first set was handheld. Interesting, even though the H4D-60 was 180th (as compared to 160th with the CMOS) it ran out of room with the highlights. Again, the 60 is at least 2/3 of a stop brighter than the 50.

Also interesting, I'm shooting Daylight WB. With the H4D-60, that converts to 5700 and 12 (temp and tint). With the H5D-50c it is 5900 and 26.

Manual:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/3_h4d60_iso100_f8_180th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/3_h5d50c_iso100_f8_160th.jpg

Aperture:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/3_h4d60_iso400_f11_50th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/3_h5d50c_iso400_f11_40th.jpg

None of these shots have been in exactly controlled setups, so they should be considered fairly preliminary and taken with a couple of grains of salt.

Finally, I'll shoot some deep shadows and low light conditions for comparisons.
Thanks, I was waiting for people shoots. If you could make a pair with a colored person it will be great (The Hasselbads are renown for that application).

What about your experience shooting? it's there any difference you can persive or it's just a H5D-50 with a cropped cmos sensor ?

Best regards,
J. Duncan
 

gazwas

Active member
Thanks for posting these really interesting comparisons.

Looked at all your examples and I preferred the look and colour of the 60 on every shot. The really difficult decision however would be do I prefer it enough over having the massive advantage of shooting much higher ISO's on the 50c???
 

tjv

Active member
Thanks for sharing!
In the first set of comparisons, it seems like the 50c shots are slightly out of focus? I think Rob mentioned this above too? Certainly, the subsequent samples you posted suggest that detail is not at all lacking. When reviewing those, it seems to me that the main difference between the two is more dynamic range from the 50c and a very slight, and I mean very slight, difference in colour rendition.
 

TimothyHyde

Subscriber Member
I'm not looking at these on a calibrated monitor (yet), so can't be confident saying definitive about the color. I do sense that I'm getting more dynamic range with the H5D-50c, though it could be a function some of highlights blowing on the 60 when attempting to match the pair.

Looking at the first set of images again, I think at least some of the softness is operator error. ugh. Generally, during the week I've been shooting it, I'm pretty happy with the resolution of the H5D-50c.

Gazwas, I'm getting ready to test side by side at higher ISOs, but I'm guessing it will not be a "massive" difference. I sense it's about two stops, maybe three in some circumstances, or only one in others. That is enough for what I want to accomplish in low light with the camera, I think, and also allowing me to handhold in certain critical circumstances.
 

Jay Emm

Member
Likewise, thanks Tim - really appreciate seeing these files.

I sense a little more vibrancy from the CMOS, but that may also be a factor of the slight exposure variations noted. To date the "Natural Color" of the H-series CCD sensors has been (IMO) remarkable - so my interest is in seeing how this plays out on CMOS. Chances are very little in it so I should not over think it, but nevertheless interesting!

Also useful to see the crop effect. Thanks!
 
Last edited:

fotografz

Well-known member
Tim,

Regarding images with the exif data left intact:

The exposure variance may be directly attributable to the fact that with all sets of comparisons the 60 camera is set to spot metering and the 50 camera is set to center-weighted average.

When I work with Hasselblads, my tendency was to shoot center-weighted for most general shots unless in adverse lighting conditions requiring spot.

It would be interesting to see higher ISO shots from the 50 in more adverse lighting … most CMOS cameras can do higher ISOs in decent lighting.

The H4D/40 I had was pretty good at 1600 with that Kodak sensor.

I prefer the 60 shots in most cases here, but only you know what you're after and how you shoot. The 60 back is pretty formidable when set to ISO 50 in studio scenarios, and very good at 400 … but if you are more into hand-held, lower available light work, the 50 may be just the ticket … plus you get an H5 camera!

Good luck!

- Marc
 

TimothyHyde

Subscriber Member
That's a little embarrassing. Somewhere along the line I must have accidentally changed the metering from center to spot. Thanks for your eagle eye, Marc. I would have not thought of checking that.

Okay. I'm not sure how instructive this will be. Even without metering disparity, it is difficult to compare the two cameras in rapidly-dying light. I decided to use a grey card to remove the WB variable, and just compare the two at higher relative ISOs. It produces pretty ugly colors, as a result, but it allows some comparison. I tried to control here by histogram rather than use identical exposures settings because the sensors really behave differently in low light. Obviously this comparison in particular would be better in a studio, in controlled lighting.

I wanted to compare the cameras with deep shadows, and with strobes, but I'm running out of time. Brother Hendrix is going to be asking for the H4D-60 (which I traded in) to be shipped before he has to invoice me for both of them. I wish I could afford them both, as I really like the H4D-60.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h4d60_iso400_f4_4sec.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h4d60_iso800_f4_2sec.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h5d50c_iso400_f4_1sec.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h5d50c_iso800_f4_.6sec.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h5d50c_iso1600_f4_.4sec.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h5d50c_iso3200_f4_5th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h5d50c_iso6400_f4_10th.jpg
 

tjv

Active member
Perhaps it's not the object of the test and sorry for pointing it out, but as with your first samples, it seems the 50c is snowing some pretty dramatic front focus here?
 

fotografz

Well-known member
That's a little embarrassing. Somewhere along the line I must have accidentally changed the metering from center to spot. Thanks for your eagle eye, Marc. I would have not thought of checking that.

Okay. I'm not sure how instructive this will be. Even without metering disparity, it is difficult to compare the two cameras in rapidly-dying light. I decided to use a grey card to remove the WB variable, and just compare the two at higher relative ISOs. It produces pretty ugly colors, as a result, but it allows some comparison. I tried to control here by histogram rather than use identical exposures settings because the sensors really behave differently in low light. Obviously this comparison in particular would be better in a studio, in controlled lighting.

I wanted to compare the cameras with deep shadows, and with strobes, but I'm running out of time. Brother Hendrix is going to be asking for the H4D-60 (which I traded in) to be shipped before he has to invoice me for both of them. I wish I could afford them both, as I really like the H4D-60.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h4d60_iso400_f4_4sec.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h4d60_iso800_f4_2sec.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h5d50c_iso400_f4_1sec.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h5d50c_iso800_f4_.6sec.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h5d50c_iso1600_f4_.4sec.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h5d50c_iso3200_f4_5th.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23138385/4_h5d50c_iso6400_f4_10th.jpg
No problem Tim, testing stuff is never easy.

I took the above ISO 400 shots from both cameras, layered the 50 over the 60 version, lined up the trash cans then zoomed in to 50% and clicked the H5D50c layer on and of in the layer dialog box to compare.

If you were relatively consistent with your focus point on the subject, then the 50c is front focusing pretty badly … which is extremely rare with a Hasselblad H that has been calibrated at the factory. Since it seemed to have done that with more than one lens, and the 60 seems on the money, then it has to be the 50c camera.

I urge you to do the same layered comparison, then maybe do a tripod test in studio to be sure.

That aside, the ISO 3200 and 6400 images are pretty good. A slight density adjustment and ever so slight saturation tweak brings back the color seen in the lower ISO files.

- Marc
 

tjv

Active member
Could this be due to a badly calibrated camera, in terms of sensor to flange distance? Pretty rare for Hasselblad, although not unheard of.
 

TimothyHyde

Subscriber Member
Don't apologize for pointing out focus errors; whether mine or the camera's, I need to know. I see the front focusing pretty clearly on the H5D-50c shots, now that you point it out and I'm actually looking at the last set of images rather than rushing to post them. I set the focus once in the near darkness with each camera, raised the mirror, used a release cable, and changed the exposure/ISO settings but never re-adjusted the focus. (I use the AE-L button on both cameras for AF single drive). I suspect either I simply missed the focus (my guess) or have some setting wrong. Given that I've only had the camera a few days, and the steps it went through before I got it, it seems likely that it's me and not a faulty camera. I'll sort that out tomorrow. Either way, thanks for the extra effort Marc and TJV.

All that aside, I think I can get a couple more stops with the H5D-50c, which is why I'm giving up my beloved H4D-60.
 

jerome_m

Member
Thanks a lot for publishing these tests. When you have the time, could you redo the low iso colour tests with matched exposure, please?
 

jerome_m

Member
All that aside, I think I can get a couple more stops with the H5D-50c, which is why I'm giving up my beloved H4D-60.
You should get at least one stop more with the 50c over the 60, since it uses micro-lenses and the 60 does not. But may I suggest you try to play with the noise reduction function in Phocus before you give up on the 60? In my experience, it works very well and should improve your iso800 samples considerably.
 
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