1/125 Flash Sync Speed...

[dougpeterson]

All very valid information Doug but not exactly a good enough reason for us to all go out and spend £35,000 GBP on a Phase One system over the Pentax. In the context of the original question, 1/125th second flash sync should prove quite adequate on the new Pentax, especially for studio work.

1/125th second sync also means the type of strobe equipment needs to be much less exotic and affordable. More Senso or Acute rather than Scoro or Pro8a levels of investment.

Everyone's needs and budget will be different.

Though notably faster-than-125 sync doesn't remotely require a £35k entry price.

A new Leaf Credo kit is $13,995 for 1/1600th sync and a Phase One h20 on a Hassy 500 would provide 1/500th sync for under $2k - far less than the Pentax (with obvious other disadvantages like having no LCD!).

My point is only that everyone's needs are different. If you shoot only stopped down in a dim studio then flash sync isn't even worth a single dollar. If you might benefit from a higher sync speed it's still only one of many things to consider, including price.

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Separately, how does faster sync *require* better flash units? When using entry-level strobes you simply opt not to go to the max available shutter speed. It will still work fine at 1/250th and usually even 1/500th - yielding more flexibility than a hard 1/125th limit (which as described in this thread will be very useful in some situations and entirely irrelevant in others). Also there are a LOT of cheap options for fast duration strobes. In my case the overwhelming majority of my my use of fast flash sync comes in the form of adding a small amount of fill when shooting outdoors at weddings where I'm using a Canon 580 speedlight which is a (comparatively) very inexpensive flash unit. You don't think about that unit as providing a lot of light until you're able to shoot with it outdoors at ISO200 at f/2.8 by virtue of a leaf shutter allowing setting shutter speed to 1/1600th without effecting the flash exposure. At my last wedding I also brought profoto B1 heads. These aren't cheap, but they are battery powered and powerful and are nowhere near the cost of a profoto d4 or pro-pack.

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Yes, but the Hasselbald 500 does not shoot HD video or go to 200,000+ISO, nor does the Credo with the outdated DF camera. The Pentax @1/1600th in HSS will do just fine with power output. If strobe duration is more important then you should look at the Paul Buff's Einstein 640.

 

[gazwas]

A new Leaf Credo kit is $13,995 for 1/1600th sync and a Phase One h20 on a Hassy 500 would provide 1/500th sync for under $2k - far less than the Pentax (with obvious other disadvantages like having no LCD!)

Considering the OP is asking about the new CMOS chipped Pentax those comparisons are pretty irrelevant.

Separately, how does faster sync *require* better flash units?

To get the full advertised 1/1600sec sync without limitation you need better specified, which normally means costly flash equipment. If I have a studio full of studio packs I'm not going to be swapping to Canon speedlites. I'm imagine most existing studio packs over 5 years old will not offer compatability with the high sync speeds over 1/250th sec without some form of trade off.

 

[fotografz]

Nothing alters the fact that you are stuck with 1/125 top sync speed. Okay for some. Not okay for others.

When working in bright ambient, over-coming the sun, and/or back-lit subjects, it is more lighting power one needs, not less. Shutter speed knocks down the ambient exposure, and a fair amount of lighting is then needed to light the subject in balance … which HSS is almost always too weak to do. NDs do not mitigate use of 1/125 with longer MF lenses and potential motion blur.

So, when outdoors in bright ambient requiring some decent level of lighting power, comparing the PCB Einstein to something like a D1, the t 0.1 durations are the same at full power. But, practically speaking both work just fine for most anything up to really fast subject motion. I've yet to run into an issue working with a Profoto Acute 600B L @ 1/1000 sync.

BTW the Einstein's are nice, and an excellent choice for many applications, but most certainly are not NOT the fastest duration strobe of ANY as mentioned … the Hensel Speed Max has the shortest @ t.0.1 duration of 1/66,660, and does it a minimum power setting that is higher than the Einstein's … it can also do 31 pops per second, and has a flash tube rated to 40,000,000 pops … so it is built for continuous duty on an industrial scale, if that's what is called for. If not, then just rent something.

- Marc

 

[kapil Syal]

Re - the use of ND filters to help balance flash and bright ambient lighting - effectively boosting the flash sync speed limits.

sorry , i just don't understand how that works (or could be made to work)
The ND filter goes on the lens - it will cut ambient And flash power . Equally.
I simply don't understand how this can change the equation...

 

[pophoto]

Thanks for all the input, I guess my next question would be, what strobes will offer HSS with the Pentax?

Also the Hensel Speed max seems really interesting, but the price less so, I wonder if the monolight will work well with other strobes in the mix?

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

You'll note Marc, I said the Einstein 640 is ONE of the fastest .
The Hensel at almost $5000 and is only 400 w/s, is not a bargain either.
Also, please explain how HSS is weaker than leaf shutters

 

[gazwas]

Re - the use of ND filters to help balance flash and bright ambient lighting - effectively boosting the flash sync speed limits.

sorry , i just don't understand how that works (or could be made to work)
The ND filter goes on the lens - it will cut ambient And flash power . Equally.
I simply don't understand how this can change the equation...

ND cuts the strength of the sun and you up the power of the flash.

 

[gazwas]

Thanks for all the input, I guess my next question would be, what strobes will offer HSS with the Pentax

Never used HSS but the new Profoto B1 is supposed to be getting HSS support this year but not sure how camera specific it will be and when it will arrive?

 

[fotografz]

Thanks for all the input, I guess my next question would be, what strobes will offer HSS with the Pentax?

Also the Hensel Speed max seems really interesting, but the price less so, I wonder if the monolight will work well with other strobes in the mix?

That mono-light was mentioned in context of frequent production studio use and need … for which it is "over-built" to handle, thus the price. You get what you pay for. Otherwise, if you have the occasional need for really fast flash durations, my suggestion is to just rent.

Most any light will work with others. I mix Hensel, Profoto and Elinchrom all the time. The only issue may be one of modifier mount … although I use Elinchrom modifiers on Profoto a lot because Elinchrom makes an EL to Profoto adapter.

- Marc

 

[pophoto]

Never used HSS but the new Profoto B1 is supposed to be getting HSS support this year but not sure how camera specific it will be and when it will arrive?

I have read this, but I think (I may be wrong), the HSS will only be applicable to the Canon?

 

[pophoto]

That mono-light was mentioned in context of frequent production studio use and need … for which it is "over-built" to handle, thus the price. You get what you pay for. Otherwise, if you have the occasional need for really fast flash durations, my suggestion is to just rent.

Most any light will work with others. I mix Hensel, Profoto and Elinchrom all the time. The only issue may be one of modifier mount … although I use Elinchrom modifiers on Profoto a lot because Elinchrom makes an EL to Profoto adapter.

- Marc

I never knew Hensel made such a fast Monolight, so I was interested in learning about it, thank you!

Do you know what the built in radio is compatible with?

 

[fotografz]

Re - the use of ND filters to help balance flash and bright ambient lighting - effectively boosting the flash sync speed limits.

sorry , i just don't understand how that works (or could be made to work)
The ND filter goes on the lens - it will cut ambient And flash power . Equally.
I simply don't understand how this can change the equation...

You are right. NDs cut both, effectively increasing the need for strobe power.

The difference in using high speed shutter sync is that it cuts exposure of the ambient while having little to no effect on flash exposure because the flash duration is almost always faster than the shutter speed.

However, when using high shutter sync, it is important to read up on the t1 durations for any given strobe to see what the durations are for various power levels. For example, a Profoto D1 mono is about t1 of 1/800 at full power, so exceeding that with the shutter speed just clips the light.

- Marc

 

[Uaiomex]

Hi, regarding the 645Z I'm only concerned about synchro-sunlight with posing subjects as I would not use this rig other than for glamour portraits and possibly weddings.
As far as I undestand, for over-powering the sun matching subject exposure with background, at 1/125th seems possible with powerful studio strobes with long power cords or powered from batteries. Correct or far from reality?
For accomplishing this, how will the Einstein E640 could help? I have regular 640w AB's.
In the probable case that I wanted to turn noon into an afternoon or evening, what else sort of trick could work with the Z?
Thanks for your answers everyone.
Eduardo

According to specs. the Pentax 645z will shoot @1/4000th using strobes with HSS.The Paul Buff E640 strobe has one of the shortest durations of any light. This light is usually the choice for liquid photography where freezing action is key. You do not need leaf shutter lenses for high sync anymore.

Also, you can boost the cameras ISO for more control of ambient. Faster shutter speeds allow for better hand held photos.

 

[fotografz]

I never knew Hensel made such a fast Monolight, so I was interested in learning about it, thank you!

Do you know what the built in radio is compatible with?

This specific strobe comes equipped with Hensel's Strobe Wizard which allows remote adjustment at the camera. It syncs up to 1/250 with focal plane shutter cameras (/125 with 645 MF cameras), and to 1/500 with leaf-shutter cameras.

I've been interested in this light for some time now, but am waiting in hopes they will incorporate Profoto AIR like Hensel has done with most of their other recent lighting. My Hensel Porty 1200L has both Strobe Wizard and Profoto AIR receivers built-in … so I can trigger a mix of Hensel and Profoto lights with one transmitter that provides remote adjustments.

Hope this helps,

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

Also, please explain how HSS is weaker than leaf shutters

Focal plane shutters expose the sensor as a narrow slit when the sync speed is exceeded. HSS divides the flash output into a series of individual pulses (stroboscopic effect) as that shutter slit moves over the sensor. Multiple weaker bursts to evenly expose the whole frame adds up to less flash exposure over-all.

A leaf shutter captures the same level of flash output in one exposure over the whole frame.

Taking the nonsense out of Flash sync and High Speed Flash sync. | Shooting Phase One


- Marc

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

So, when outdoors in bright ambient requiring some decent level of lighting power, comparing the PCB Einstein to something like a D1, the t 0.1 durations are the same at full power.-fotografz

That's true, but as soon as you reduce power for either light, the Einstein 640's duration is dramatically shorter, thus better for speed. The d1's shortest duration is 1/1070, and the Einstein E640 is 1/13,514. The E640 is also considerably lighter too. Profoto doesn't publish t 0.1 for the D1's, at least I can't find it.

 

[fotografz]

So, when outdoors in bright ambient requiring some decent level of lighting power, comparing the PCB Einstein to something like a D1, the t 0.1 durations are the same at full power.-fotografz

That's true, but as soon as you reduce power for either light, the Einstein 640's duration is dramatically shorter, thus better for speed. The d1's shortest duration is 1/1070, and the Einstein E640 is 1/13,514. The E640 is also considerably lighter too. Profoto doesn't publish t 0.1 for the D1's, at least I can't find it.

Also true. PCB publishes the t1 durations for Profoto D1 and a few other mono-light comparisons, and I trust they are correct. FYI, the Einstein t.1 at full power is 1/588 in action or color mode, and fastest @ 1/8000 in color mode (which I'd select to avoid color shifts in Action mode at lower power levels)

In most cases these really fast durations are useful only in a darkened studio because the light output is extremely low … like 2.5W/s for the Einstein.

However, the context wasn't about flash duration in a blacked out studio, it was about delivering the higher amount of light needed to work in bright ambient. For all practical purposes, even at full power, either strobe would be barely enough to do that job given use of modifier and/or distance to subject … not to mention keeping the ISO as close to base for the highest image quality… which is usually the point of using MFD in the first place.

Rule of Thumb says 1200W/s is usually needed when the sun is really bright, at the daytime beach, or the sun is actually in the frame … so, were I to use a mono-head in such conditions with a focal plane shutter camera, I'd bring the D1/1000, not the D1/500.

RE: weight: Personally, I'm not a fan of mono-lights for outdoor location work … at least not mobile location work, because all of them are too big and top heavy, especially on the end of an assistant held mobile boom arm. Profoto 600B lithium, Broncolor Move, Elinchrom, etc. battery-pack/head kits are better solutions IMO because the heads are small, and the pack can be used as ballast to help anchor a stationary stand.

The exception to that may be the new self contained Profoto B1, but only IF I shot Canon and wanted TTL control of the strobe.

Most of these modern strobe solutions work just fine in a vast majority of applications. Wedding and event shooters may have more need for certain performance characteristics because they do not always have control of when or even where they may have to take a portrait or group photo. It's also a nice option for certain creative use of lighting or changing lighting conditions.

- Marc

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

I'd be curious if the new Pentax 645z will work with Hypersync so you can use the full power flash of the E640. The tiny vagabond mini battery and the E640 is actually much smaller and lighter than the AcuteB2 Air for portable use, but i think for the OP's use of flash sync for now, would be to use ND filters and a combo of higher ISO. The Pentax is supposed to be very good at higher ISO's, so even at 800 iso with an ND should yield good results.

 

[pophoto]

HyperSync is PocketWizard Control TL tied, so unless someone gives them a Pentax 645Z for testing and enough user base to back it up, I don't think we will see it! I presented them a question recently about the Sony A7R, with it's 1/160, but the problem was with their propriety hot shoe tied to Sony's way....so while possible, it's not happening soon!

I have been in contact with PW over the years and they have helped me reach 1/8000th sec with no clipping on my Canon and Nikon! Trick was their beta firmware and S-heads from Elinchrom.

HSS is also tied to the flash also, so I was thinking how it is achieved with DMF and Profoto gear?

Yes, ND is definitely an option! Unfortunately my other option is a use my RZ ProII system and get a digital back for it since I already have a small collection of lenses, but that's another topic altogether!