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Thread: Perfect tech cam companion ?

  1. #51
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    So I have been reading your contributions (thanks very much !), and researching different options. Here is a brief summary:

    1) Sony Alpha 7R + 24-70 f/4 + 70-200 f/4: total weight: 465g + 426g + 840g = 1.7kg. Image quality: oh yeah ! This does fit into my grand scheme of having a very good landscape body for my Canon gear (I do wildlife photography too, and then I take the Canon bag, with the 24-70mm, 70-200 and 500mm f/4 and 1Ds III body - and no, that's not necessarily lightweight). But the Sony combo is a bit on the heavy side, especially compared to the featherweight option 4.

    2) Canon 7D+18-200. This is because I already have a 7D, so adding a super-zoom would be easy. Weight: 820g+600g = 1.4kg. Image quality: so-so, at lead photozone isn't very positive about the zoom. But the sensor is probably pretty good. Improving the IQ would mean schlepping either the 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8II (that I already have), and that's a no go.
    I could also combine the Sony A7R with the Canon 70-200mm f/4 for example (which I don't have, but would allow to not invest too heavily into Sony, in the hopes that one day, Canon gets it's act together).

    3) Olympus OM-D E-M5 + 14-150 mm: 425g+280g = 0.7kg. Image quality: good to very good. It seems the zoom is pretty decent. I could split the focal range into two lenses instead of the super zoom, and that would probably significantly increase IQ (at a moderate cost in weight). But it's more hassle and an increase in bulk.

    4) Sony RX-10: 0.8kg. Doesn't look that attractive anymore considering the option 3 above. It's heavier, less zoom range, but I suspect the Sony lens is better that the Olympus 14-150mm. Any idea which would be sharper corner to corner ?

    I had a chance to have a look at 3) and 4) in a real store yesterday. The build quality of 3) seemed a bit flimsy compared to 4) - but maybe that's what you get, when you want really lightweight. I didn't really like the powered zoom of the Sony. Perhaps Sony's viewfinder was a tad better than Olympus'. The Olympus was really lightweight, and the zoom range quite nice.

    Choices, choices ! :-)

  2. #52
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    I use the a7r. I look at it as a backup camera in addition to a quick versatile camera. It does have the weight problem on the long end though. I think that is a key decision factor. If you want a lens longer than say 135mm, the M4/3 makes more sense.

    I want Sony to come out with 2 stellar primes for this camera: a 24mm f/2 and 200mm f/4 or even f/5.6. The 70-200 weighs almost the same as my canon f/4 IS.

    Gonna be a while I think...

    Dave
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  3. #53
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    Same here, A7R. Think it is the best size/quality compromise out there.

  4. #54
    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    LOL. But both the canon and sony US sites show US weight specs. So I didn't bother converting ... not that I would have -- too late to teach this old dog new tricks.
    Wayne, I was kidding of course, and glad it made you LOL.

    [OT] I have to admit, we've actually been slow in going fully metric here in Ireland. It took a generation really, to cover all aspects. First, we "decimalised" from "old money" (240 pennies in a pound/punt...not to mention shillings, farthings, thruppence, sixpence and half-crowns) to "new money" (100 pennies in a pound) in 1971, in conjunction with the UK. The currency transition to Euros with 100 cents was therefore painless, in 2002. (Meanwhile, the UK is still clinging to their pound )

    Metric weights and volumes lived alongside imperial ones at least into the 1990s, with cookery shows and recipes among the worst offenders for persisting to measure everything in ounces and pints. People here still tend to report their weight in stones and pounds, and their height in feet and inches, although medical staff will always use kg and meters or cm. The old glass pint bottle of milk became the Tetrapak litre of milk in the 1980s. While if you buy beer in a bottle or can, it will be 500ml; but buy it in a bar, it will still be a pint (568ml). It would be trivial to serve 500ml instead, but the invitation "are you going for a half-litre?" just doesn't have the same ring as "are you going for a pint?" ("a", of course, is generally used in the plural sense ). The key to successful national systemic transitions is to be sensitive to cultural norms.

    For some years we had road signage with distances in km, but speed limits still displayed in mph. Took a bit of mental arithmetic to figure out how long it would take you to get there, travelling at a certain speed! Speed limits were eventually changed to km/h in 2005 - that, I think, marked the final step in national metric conversion. Part of the official reluctance to do it sooner was a fear that it might lead to more speed-related accidents (since the number for km/h is larger than the number for mph). In actual fact, road accidents have declined steadily in this period, to one of the lowest per capita in the EU .

    Ray

  5. #55
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    Yes, I think you are right. The problem is not to get a good and compact solution for the 24-70mm range. The A7R provides this with the Sony zoom.
    Getting longer focal lengths than that gets heavy and bulky though, with a FF sensor.
    I suspect this is because for the longer focal lengths, clearing the mirror box doesn't drive the lens size anymore. So a mirrorless camera doesn't allow the optical designer to shrink the longer focal length optics. Only solution to do that is to shrink the sensor size.

  6. #56
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    Everything has trade-offs or compromises, whether that be for weight, size, convenience, ease of use, focal length reach, lens quality, image quality, resolution/megapixels, etc.

    If not otherwise, we'd be able to use one camera for everything without compromise. Not possible really considering personal subjective tastes, and I think rather boring if such a solution were ever reality.

    I think the A7r appears to be a popular choice and for good reason. It's still on my short list of wants. But in the meantime, the more I read about the Panasonic GM1, the more I like its offerings in a rather tiny footprint. I don't plan on using more than one or two lenses with it---but consider that a rather small/light 45-200 lens on this tiny M4/3 combination provides a quite respectable reach (~90-400).

    Take a look at your list again, maybe expand it a bit. Then pick two.

    ken

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    I just wanted to share how ridiculously small the Panasonic GM1 is---you read the specs on how small it is, but not until it is in your hands do you realize how small this camera is! It's a capable camera, and will suit me fine as a tech cam companion and moreso as a casual snap shooter. I don't think anyone can/will make an interchangeable lens camera that's smaller. It's usable now but any smaller and you won't be able to push the buttons.

    I think I'm more in Guy's camp. The A7r is the best small high res camera, but at the risk gaining weight as a companion with more lenses to carry...

    A7r with the 55mm is on my short list. Ease of use and carry-around of the GM1 is just too cool to pass up.

    ken

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    A photo of a camera in a hand doesn't tell us much. For example, is that Don's hand?
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  9. #59
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    A photo of a camera in a hand doesn't tell us much. For example, is that Don's hand?
    You mean like a peanut in a catcher's mitt?
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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  10. #60
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    This GM1 is one minuscule camera ! I am a bit sceptical about making sharp long focal length images with such a small thing with only a screen to frame. I think (but perhaps I am wrong) that putting your eye to an EVF allows to better hold the camera in place (since you hold it close to you, and the eyecup provides extra stability). Just a screen ? You have to hold the cam with your arms straight, and that may not be the most stable configuration.
    But it is small, and certainly has a good image quality. Hmmmm.

  11. #61
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    I agree with miska regarding LCD vs EVF. I find that I use the EVF more than 95% of the time on both the NEX-7 and A7r. It's nice to have that LCD when I don't feel like crawling on my belly or standing on a ladder but for me nothing beats the EVF for composing.
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    The quick set up have set to see what is the distance from the end of lens to the Sony A7 infinity focusing plane.
    the distance is very close to 18 mm (+-0.1mm.)
    Therefore , sony A7 will be able to working with the lens which have the distance from the end of lens - Focusing plane more than 18mm.
    Sunchai.




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  13. #63
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    A little duct tape, and you're good to go.
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  14. #64
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by miska View Post
    Just a screen ? You have to hold the cam with your arms straight, and that may not be the most stable configuration.
    I don't hold my RX-1 very differently than many of my cameras--I certainly don't have my arms out straight (that is a tourist's technique not a photographer's). My elbows are tucked into my sides and the camera is about 12" from my face. I can, of course, hold the camera in many other positions from an eye-level camera. I have worked with so many different camera types that I am not particularly wedded to eye-level viewing.

    However, I would not use it for really long lenses simply because tracking a moving object is trickier. But then I have never practiced...

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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    Somehow, the idea of using an A7R in crop mode is growing on me. At first, I though, no way I'm going to sacrifice so many pixels ! But then, most m43 cameras are 16 Mpix-ish, not so different from the 15Mpix of the A7R in crop mode. For the Sony, an attractive all around crop zoom could be the 18-200mm (probably not very sharp, but still ok). And the A7R takes also Canon FF lenses if needed.
    Hmmm.

  16. #66
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    My tech cam companion and backup.

    A7R + FDn20/2.8 + FDn35/2 + FDn85/1.2L
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    The Panasonic GM1 is a great little camera to pack along. My girlfriend has taken my GM1 under her wing, so the Sony A7r is looking to be the better tech camera companion for me.

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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    happy news from Cambo.

    Sunchai.

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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    If you weren't in need of a zoom and providing upto iso 400 is OK, the Sigma Merrills might make the list.
    I had the DP2 and was well and truly astounded at the IQ. I think there is a thread on here as well.
    The first time I saw a dp2 file, I was sold on the future promise of the line.
    Colour accuracy can be a bummer sometimes though.

  20. #70
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    I thought very hard about the Merrills. But they don't do it for me because:
    1) I don't want a raw converter per camera brand. If it's not supported in LR, then I don't want it.
    2) they don't provide enough focal length coverage, I'd really like something up to ~200mm FF equivalent.
    If point number 1 was solved, I think I would still have a really hard look at Sigma though...

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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunchai View Post
    happy news from Cambo.

    Sunchai.

    Ahhhhhhhhh

    That awakes my mechanical passions .
    A one axis goniometer stage in the front , a two axis linear stage in the back , two adapter plates and a WA bellow . Starting tomorrow .
    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunchai View Post
    happy news from Cambo.

    Sunchai.

    WOW!!!

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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    Oh my!! I own an Apo.Grandagon of the same length. My copy (maybe all copies were) is digital grade. Thanks for sharing.
    Eduardo

    P.S. Is this the MF sub forum? Hard to tell!



    Quote Originally Posted by Sunchai View Post
    The quick set up have set to see what is the distance from the end of lens to the Sony A7 infinity focusing plane.
    the distance is very close to 18 mm (+-0.1mm.)
    Therefore , sony A7 will be able to working with the lens which have the distance from the end of lens - Focusing plane more than 18mm.
    Sunchai.





  24. #74
    Senior Member rayyen's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    I'm waiting to try the new RX100Mk3, I think it will be a good companion with my tech cam.
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyen View Post
    I'm waiting to try the new RX100Mk3, I think it will be a good companion with my tech cam.
    Won't you need five of them? If you only get one companion for one tech cam sibling, the other four in the family will be jealous.

  26. #76
    Senior Member rayyen's Avatar
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    no la... they are all my friend's camera : ) we go shooting together last Sunday ;D
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    I am thinking about the Sony A7S, if the dynamic range is as good as the rumor says!

  28. #78
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    I have gone into the µ4T system right from the beginning . Panasonic .Today I use the GX1 as my companion . The only disadvantage I can see is , that my hands are too big for that little beauty . Often I also use the iPHONE .
    Regards . Jürgen .
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  29. #79
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    Re: Perfect tech cam companion ?

    After thinking for a while, I finally bought an Alpha 7R and a Metabones adapter (for Canon lenses). It's a really small cam, not a lot larger then most m43 offerings (yes, they are smaller, some even really tiny. Actually maybe even a bit too small, but not *that* much). I will start by using my Canon lenses (they are actually bigger than the camera itself), and if I notice they are really too heavy, I can still get something like a Sony 18-200 and use the camera in crop mode (or even the Canon lenses and massively crop - there's some margin before getting down to ~16 Mpix, which is what you get on most m43).
    Thanks all for your ideas and suggestions - this has been entertaining :-)

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