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Thread: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

  1. #51
    Super Duper
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Not Japan, but South Korea. The letters were Korean not any of the three alphabets used by the Japanese.

    That, BTW, is a knock off that is made in Korea. It is by a company called PhotoClam and the model is called "Multiflex Head".

    Here is a pic:


    I am trying to get some pricing on that one, but I don't read/speak Korean.

    Here is the manual such as it is. There is one shot there where they are just showing off.
    There was an extensive thread on the Large Format Photography Forum regarding the C1 and Korean knockoff; appears that the knockoff goes for around $1,000 (2008 price I think I remember). Sorry but that’s the full extent of my knowledge on the knockoff.

    don
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  2. #52
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    I have contacted them to get more information including an eval unit. I am thinking if it is built well and priced right I may be able to set up a group purchase for these units.
    As soon as I get more information I will post it.
    Best Regards,

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
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  3. #53
    carbonmetrictree
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    For copying such a prestigious head, I would think a company would use a better name than PhotoClam. Something like PhotoSwiss or Arclam would be more suitable.

  4. #54
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    CopiedCube perhaps?
    I just got my cube and it seems very nice.
    I hope TSA will let me carry it on, since they refused (a long time ago) an exercise weight.
    Now I might have to get a G1 since it looks like it might fit in the leather case, or maybe I will re-purpose it as a jewelry box for my bride :-)
    -bob

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    I hope no one gets upset by this question, but how can someone who puts a copyright notice on his or her photos buy a Korean rip-off of the Cube? Or is this a licensed product?

  6. #56
    Pedro Mendes
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    I posted that Korean link as a joke.Personnally,knock-offs are not my cup of tea.
    Pedro

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    the asian knock-off market is not my favorite either, the only way to beat it is make your product as long as you can then move on before it gets copied/made for 1/4 what you can do it for.
    in my shop, i pay workers comp, un-employment ins., soc.sec, 401K contributions and top journeyman wages, as well as liability ins, etc; burdens that may not exist elsewhere

  8. #58
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    I just got an email back from them that stated:

    "Thanks for your interest in Multiflex but it is not available in the USA for sale."

    I guess that tells it all.

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
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  9. #59
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Okay I’ll fess up, I order the CUBE!

    After several years of procrastination I finally decided to order it this weekend sent in the order and it arrived here late yesterday afternoon, just in time for my shoot in the Redwoods. Instant reaction is that this beast is well made maybe to the point of being over-engineered; with very smooth movements.

    The CUBE arrived in its rich leather bag – what the hell were they thinking? The bag itself has to be worth several hundred dollars. Anyway after stumbling around for a couple minutes I got the hand of it – actually really got to know it shortly after I read the four page set of instructions. Jack was correct, suck it up and buy it after just a couple minutes you’ll like it. I used to have a leveling base along with a ballhead attached and got “near” perfect leveling; I can get perfect leveling with the fine tuning of the CUBE.

    I’ll post a couple images when I get the time.

    Thanks Jack!

    don
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  10. #60
    carbonmetrictree
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    I'm glad that this post has inspired folks to spend a couple grand on a head. I'll put my head on queue to be next in line.

    Haha, my work is done here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Creek View Post
    Okay I’ll fess up, I order the CUBE!

    After several years of procrastination I finally decided to order it this weekend sent in the order and it arrived here late yesterday afternoon, just in time for my shoot in the Redwoods. Instant reaction is that this beast is well made maybe to the point of being over-engineered; with very smooth movements.

    The CUBE arrived in its rich leather bag – what the hell were they thinking? The bag itself has to be worth several hundred dollars. Anyway after stumbling around for a couple minutes I got the hand of it – actually really got to know it shortly after I read the four page set of instructions. Jack was correct, suck it up and buy it after just a couple minutes you’ll like it. I used to have a leveling base along with a ballhead attached and got “near” perfect leveling; I can get perfect leveling with the fine tuning of the CUBE.

    I’ll post a couple images when I get the time.

    Thanks Jack!

    don

  11. #61
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Someone should fly to Korea and buy a bunch.. and bring them back..
    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    I just got an email back from them that stated:

    "Thanks for your interest in Multiflex but it is not available in the USA for sale."

    I guess that tells it all.

    Lance

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    one more thing, a little background on the manufacturer.
    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/06/prweb1049004.htm
    L
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
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  13. #63
    smei_ch
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    I have been reading this forum for some time, but until now never really feeled urged to post something.

    Regarding the Arca cube: Arca calims to have patents for it, but how can they patent a double goniometer for optical devices when another company already owns patents on that?
    https://www.newport.com/store/genpro...ection=Pricing

    Regards
    Stephan

  14. #64
    carbonmetrictree
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    I'm guessing that Arca Swiss got the Cube passed for a patenet because their design is significantly different from theirs (in terms of shape, shifting knobs and the ability to shift each axis more than 5° and rotate the head 60°). My friends who have patented a few products have said that if a design is similar to another patented design, the new product must differ in functionality, and or have enough of a visual difference to immediately acknowledge that both products were made from separate manufacturers. It's kind of like digital backs, as they are all similar in shape, but they all have differences in the physical design and computer functionality.


    Quote Originally Posted by smei_ch View Post
    I have been reading this forum for some time, but until now never really feeled urged to post something.

    Regarding the Arca cube: Arca calims to have patents for it, but how can they patent a double goniometer for optical devices when another company already owns patents on that?
    https://www.newport.com/store/genpro...ection=Pricing

    Regards
    Stephan

  15. #65
    smei_ch
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Then you talk about a trademark design, not a patent.
    And in this case the functionality and construction are identical. If Arca has designed it to make 20 degrees versus against 5 degrees is absolutely irrelevant.

  16. #66
    carbonmetrictree
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Thanks for the correction.

    Quote Originally Posted by smei_ch View Post
    Then you talk about a trademark design, not a patent.
    And in this case the functionality and construction are identical. If Arca has designed it to make 20 degrees versus against 5 degrees is absolutely irrelevant.

  17. #67
    Leaf_NZ
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    This is the most beautiful head to use.
    Once you use it you know why you sent all that money.
    If you get it you will never go back.

    The only thing that i can say against it, is the locking screw that you tighten the head to the tripod strips.

    Other wise its the best

    Chris Young
    [email protected]

  18. #68
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    I just got an email back from the PhotoClam people and they sent me a link to the units on ebay:

    http://cgi.ebay.ca/Photo-Clam-Multif...1%7C240%3A1318

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
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  19. #69
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    I just got an email back from the PhotoClam people and they sent me a link to the units on ebay:

    http://cgi.ebay.ca/Photo-Clam-Multif...1%7C240%3A1318

    Lance
    So has anyone tried one of these? If not, I'm going to be looking for the best price new or S/H on the Cube...

    t

  20. #70
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Tim

    I got mine from B&H.
    Don Libby
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Robert White is a bit cheaper than B&H: http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product...1119&PT_ID=326 if it's convenient for you Tim.

  22. #72
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Robert White is a bit cheaper than B&H: http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product...1119&PT_ID=326 if it's convenient for you Tim.
    Looks like it's close to $400 cheaper than B&H...
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Creek View Post
    Looks like it's close to $400 cheaper than B&H...
    That's what I was seeing, Don. A decent price (if you can call it that) for folks on that side of the pond. There may be others as well because of the reduced shipping costs, V.A.T., and duty, etc.

    It looks like locals pay 15% V.A.T., but perhaps business users get a break. (?)

  24. #74
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    That's what I was seeing, Don. A decent price (if you can call it that) for folks on that side of the pond. There may be others as well because of the reduced shipping costs, V.A.T., and duty, etc.

    It looks like locals pay 15% V.A.T., but perhaps business users get a break. (?)
    I was wondering if anyone had tried the PhotoClam?

    I'm not VAT registered and the Robert White prices do not include the mandatory 15% VAT but even so the Cube form them works out slightly cheaper than B&H BUT their website implies that they are not in stock....

    I think the rational strategy for me is to get a better pod first, and try it with my frotto geared head (which is pretty precise) and then upgrade to a cube if that doesn't work. I am only 5' 9" and though I like to work at eye level, stability must be better lower, no? So I'll look into a Gitzo CF at my height range...

    Thanks for all the advice guys!
    Last edited by tashley; 15th March 2009 at 02:23.

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Look at series 3 studex gitzos.
    I find them adequately stable for MF.
    I just ordered the GT3541xls to replace my older shorter studex which I sold.
    Most of the time I don't need the extra height, but occasionally it is nice to have a longer leg or more for use in situations that are not very level. The only bad thing about it, if you can call it that, is that it needs a longish duffel to pack properly.
    I tried the Manfrotto geared head, but I found that the cantilevered joints added play, so I ended up with a cube.
    -bob
    Last edited by Bob; 15th March 2009 at 03:34.

  26. #76
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Look at series 3 studex gitzos.
    I find them adequately stable for MF.
    I just ordered the GT3541xls to replace my older shorter studex which I sold.
    Most of the time I don't need the extra height, but occasionally it is nice to have a longer leg or more for use in situations that are not very level. The only bad thing about it, if you can call it that, is that it needs a longish duffel to pack properly.
    I tried the Manfrotto geared head, but I found that the cantilevered joints added play, so I ended up with a cube.
    -bob
    Thanks Bob,

    Actually I was thinking the same thing: that cantilever, especially the top platform, does have a sort of rigid, reverberative, twangy sort of play to it that I think is best controlled in studio rather than outdoor conditions. It's just that the Cube is so astonishingly expensive and I personally dislike small manufacturers that rely on artisan mystique and silly prices to sell stuff that according to Jack's review were not properly produced, not returnable and have very slow customer service! I already decided not to buy an Arca camera because they didn't have a website on which I could check basic details! Still, needs must....
    Last edited by Bob; 15th March 2009 at 03:34.

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    A heavy ball head is an alternative that is much more rigid.
    Something like the BH-55.
    Arca has improved the defects that Jack mentioned in his LL review, but I still can't figure out why the leather case. The lever clamp is also very good now IMO. A cloth bag would have served as well. I understand your point on the boutique style, and I was very reluctant to spend that much, but having done that, the pain passed quickly and now all that remains is the joy. I would not, due to its exposed gears, take it out in blowing sand.
    -bob

  28. #78
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    I still have my Acratech ballhead for those times when I need very fast movements like shooting wildlife; it stays connected to my older, Gitzo GT2540.

    We had some blowing wind and sand last week in Monument Valley and I used the Cube everyday without any problems with the exposed gear. I also used it in January both in the Redwoods and on a couple days at the beach where I had drizzle and slight sandy conditions. I also experienced gear failure when the top of my tripod separated sending my camera and Cube onto the sandy beach while I was returning to my car. All in all the Cube has stood the pressures of wet, windy, sandy, and stupid conditions without giving me any problems.

    The neat leather container stays in my studio workshop where I'm now using it to collect quarters.

    Just had this thought as I was about to close - I am willing to expose my gear to any type of conditions that I'm willing to expose myself to. If it's too harsh for me then I figure it'll be too harsh for my gear, otherwise we're out there together; then again I am a landscape photographer...

    Don
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Creek View Post
    . . . we're out there together , , ,
    Don
    Beautifully stated Don, I like this idea!

  30. #80
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Agreed -- I buy my stuff to use it. And let's not forget, the exposed gears on the Cube means they are equally exposed for cleaning, which BTW is a breeze
    Jack
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Creek View Post
    The neat leather container stays in my studio workshop where I'm now using it to collect quarters.
    Love it!... A $400 leather bag/box to hold $46 worth of quarters!

    Thank you! Arca-Swiss.

  32. #82
    Super Duper
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Love it!... A $400 leather bag/box to hold $46 worth of quarters!

    Thank you! Arca-Swiss.
    I was wondering if someone would pick up on that.

    Don
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  33. #83
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Speaking as an ALPA* owner, I feel I can say this: I think it's insulting to include the leather case with the Cube. I think $2000 without the case would still allow A-S to get by, and I doubt that many of the people who buy the Cube use the leather case to carry it.

    * ALPA sells plastic lens and body covers for about 80 dollars each. A fair price might be twelve. I own one.

  34. #84
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Right, Stephen. I think a reinforced Optech type of bag would be fine for most users. Heck get Tumi to make something for $90!


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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    That makes two Korean companies who have ripped off Arca Swiss designs... Markins being the first. Their ball heads are direct knock-offs of the Arca Swiss B1 ball head, right down to the tension gear on the large adjustment knob.

    When I last spoke with Arca's US Rep she offered "that's why we have a legal team", whatever that implies, as Markins has been doing this for years. It would be interesting to see if both the Markins and Cube rip-offs are made in the same factory.

    The design similarities are too close to ignore. I personally would never patronize any company displaying such a flagrant violation of patents.

    Lawrence

  36. #86
    DougDolde
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Too bad Really Right Stuff doesn't make something like the Cube.

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    could anyone summarize the gitzo pod lineup?

    explorer, studex, mountaineer names are not so revealing
    2 series and 3 series helps a bit, but where does my 1325 mountaineer fit in, for example?

  38. #88
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    could anyone summarize the gitzo pod lineup?

    explorer, studex, mountaineer names are not so revealing
    2 series and 3 series helps a bit, but where does my 1325 mountaineer fit in, for example?
    I agree... and the only website that's worse than Gitzo's is Arca's...

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Explorer is the "crane-type" 'pod that allows one to cant the center column at any angle. The legs are also infinitely adjustable, i.e. they are not limited to the three leg positions.

    The Systematic is the line that allows a flat top without a center column, or can accept an optional column. It has somewhat broader shoulders because of this center "boss".

    The Mountaineer is the more traditional leg set with the "normal" shoulders where the legs attach. They're more compact when folded in that the shoulder area is not as large around.

    Not sure if that helps. A lot of us refer to the series' numerically, i.e. series 1, 2, 3, 5 in that it communicates the relative size and strengths. Normally this would refer to the part numbers in the 1Xxx series as "series 1", 2Xxx as "series 2", etc.

    Edit to add this link: http://reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/item...atus=0&Tp=&Bc=
    It allows a simpler way to get a feel for the styles on one page.
    Last edited by Dale Allyn; 15th March 2009 at 16:33.

  40. #90
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Explorer is the "crane-type" 'pod that allows one to cant the center column at any angle. The legs are also infinitely adjustable, i.e. they are not limited to the three leg positions.

    The Systematic is the line that allows a flat top without a center column, or can accept an optional column. It has somewhat broader shoulders because of this center "boss".

    The Mountaineer is the more traditional leg set with the "normal" shoulders where the legs attach. They're more compact when folded in that the shoulder area is not as large around.

    Not sure if that helps. A lot of us refer to the series' numerically, i.e. series 1, 2, 3, 5 in that it communicates the relative size and strengths.

    Edit to add this link: http://reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/item...atus=0&Tp=&Bc=
    It allows a simpler way to get a feel for the styles on one page.
    So can a three series Mountaineer be had without a centre column as others here have suggested this might be more stable? Or does one have ot get the systematic? Me confused!

  41. #91
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Yes, Tim, there is a three series Mountaineer. It has the larger leg diameter and the clutch-type grip on a center column. I don't recall if there's a column-free version. I've not looked.

  42. #92
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    My read (and a quick look at B&H and RRS) is that the Mountaineer always has the center column, either "rapid column" or geared.

    Here's a pretty thorough chart: http://reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/Item...GT3531&eq=&Tp=

  43. #93
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    I'm prepared to be corrected, but (1) the center column on some (or maybe all) current Gitzos can be removed, and (2) I doubt that the mere presence of the column makes the tripod less stable. I'd think that as long as it isn't extended, the center column should not affect the tripod's stability. It comes off without tools, so you can remove it, or leave it on and not use it.

    Jack?

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Stephen, if one removes a column from a tripod intended for a center column, how does one attach a head? This is where the Systematic offers a mounting plate in lieu of a hole for the center column. I have seen regular length center columns and extra short columns, or the leveling base, but not a mounting plate for the models intended for use with a column.

    Gets confusing to write out, and read, eh? Feels like I'm rambling here. Sorry.

  45. #95
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Stephen,
    You are correct.
    At least the mountaineer line has a removable center column, but more narrow shoulders. They are modular to the extent that in some cases longer and shorter columns are available, but they all tighten with the same clutch style device.
    The studex line accepts a broader line of accessories with its more modular mechanism for changing center columns. The size of the center plate is dictated by the diameter of the video bowel type head mounts that are available. Other center column options include a leveling option, and different lengths of geared and clutch style columns.
    The studex line is most stable with no column at all.
    -bob

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Bob, is there a mounting setup for the Mountaineer with no column, or just the very short column to replace the normal one? I've only seen it with the short column as a light weight and ground-hugging option. Maybe there's one that's just a couple of inches to attach. (?)

    This is where I was getting hung up.

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    My read (and a quick look at B&H and RRS) is that the Mountaineer always has the center column, either "rapid column" or geared.

    Here's a pretty thorough chart: http://reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/Item...GT3531&eq=&Tp=
    Dale, thanks for your help. I'm still lost despite it mind you! Their model designations are very confusing and even their own graphic at the bottom of the link you posted does not tie in with their actual product codes!

    Jack says he has the 3541XLS and I have found that same model at the top of the page here

    http://www.parkcameras.com/c/81/Carb...ds.html?Page=3

    But the model designation chart at the bottom of this page:

    http://reallyrightstuff.com/rrs/Item...3541LS&eq=&Tp=

    has a description of an 'EX' LS but not an XLS...

    Jack says he uses his without a column but the model number he quotes seems to have one in the descriptions I can find... my head hurts!

    But thanks or trying to help... Gitzo should hire you!

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    all of the short columns or long columns collapse to the same height which is dictated by the height of the clutch mechanism. The short columns are offered so that the tripod legs can be spread so that the tripod head be brought lower to the ground without the remnants of the center column extending beneath the clutch mechanism from striking the ground.
    The STYLE of center column remains the same as when the tripod was bought, however with the studex, the style can be changed as well.
    -bob

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    If you're still confused call David at Dale labs (or pm dfarkas on this forum) and he will explain it. He sells them all and is very familiar with their product line.

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    Re: Arca Swiss C1 Cube

    Tim, Jack and I have the same model: it's the GT3541XLS. The "X" denotes "EXTRA long", the "4" denotes four leg sections. I am thrilled with this leg set. If you have any questions or want see something specific on it let me know and I'll try to help.

    The EX code usually refers to the Explorer series, which is that "crane-type" column model. And the chart does NOT show the "X" designation for Extra long.

    HTH

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