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Printing Medium format images

flyrcairplanes

New member
Everyone has their own opinion on this, but back to the OP, I hope you do take the time to learn the printing process for your current work. By either taking a class or two or by purchase of a printer and learning as you go. I feel you will get a much more positive feeling by seeing a final "paper" print and the fact that you took that image from either a scanned film negative or slide, or a digital capture to paper.

Paul
thanks Paul. I do hope to print my own work at some point. As I learn about the process one important element is what type of system has a long "shelf life". I don't print on a daily basis and I don't want to have to throw away expensive unused inks or dyes when I have a prolonged period without a lot of printing.
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
Guy your 7900 is tempting. Unfortunately all my cash is caught up in travel for the rest of the year and no one wants to buy the studio lighting I've been trying to offload locally. It's been a buyers market for anything photo related for awhile now.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
thanks Paul. I do hope to print my own work at some point. As I learn about the process one important element is what type of system has a long "shelf life". I don't print on a daily basis and I don't want to have to throw away expensive unused inks or dyes when I have a prolonged period without a lot of printing.
From my experience, the Epson's prefer daily use even the newer models. I leave mine one all the time except when a thunderstorm is expected. If I don't have a series of prints scheduled, I will run a pattern that I picked up from Wayne Fox, who posts on this forum quite a bit. He has a multicolored test print that exercises all the nozzles.

The Canon line up handle clogs differently in that they map out the clog and allow the user to replace the head.

Also +1 on the Charles Cramer classs, he had stopped doing them for a while, I am glad to see he is back with a schedule. However Jeff Shewe has put a lot of time into the Digital Print, and to his credit it's written in a very user friendly format, a ton a great help in that book.

Paul
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Guy your 7900 is tempting. Unfortunately all my cash is caught up in travel for the rest of the year and no one wants to buy the studio lighting I've been trying to offload locally. It's been a buyers market for anything photo related for awhile now.
What kind of lights and your location. You can PM me
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Maintaining constant humidity ~40-60% is ideal---and I've found that this is a much more important consideration for Epson printers than realized. I've had zero issues with my 9900 and K7 converted 9890, as well as an old 4800 that I'm trying my best to kill as an excuse to get a new printer, but she won't die or clog. :D

Guy's Epson 7900 is a good deal from a known source---and also a good printer candidate for conversion to a B&W K7 piezography printer.

ken :)
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I just run a clean heads monthly and it stays in good shape. The Epsons seem to do okay sitting around at least mine has not had any real problems but I have had to clean the heads twice sometimes from sitting. I'm also in a very dry climate which may not be the best environment although my office does have AC.
 

D&A

Well-known member
I always print my own images, just as I used to do all my own darkroom work. It's all about control!

The most important ingredient IMHO is a first class profiling system. I use Eye 1 for my display and for making paper profiles.

Although I use C1 for Raw processing, I prefer to print from PS where I can use Pixel Genius's sharpening algorithms and Canon's 16 bit plug-in. (I use a Canon Image Prograf printer.)

But even then, there is art involved! For large, complex images I will make a small version first as a proof and then cook the final version to taste.

I remember what a thrill it was to watch an image appear in the developing tray in my darkroom days. Now I experience the same anticipation watching the paper emerge from the printer!
Well said and I too following quite closely the steps you outlined. The art of printing in my opinion takes as much careful set up and preparation as it does when preparing to carefully to photographically a landscape. I won't repeat the excellent advice given by other in this thread but take your time and work with small sized images first till you achieve the results that you're hoping to obtain. Materials such as paper and ink can get expensive, so work on a smaller scale until you're ready to print larger.

Like photography, a combination of good reading material in the art of ink jet printing combined with actual hands on experience and experimentation with your printer and materials of choice, will facilitate your learning curve.

Out of all the RIPS I've worked with, Colorbyte Imageprint is by far the most intuitive versatile RIP I've used.

Dave (D&A)
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Ken and I live in two totally separate environments him along the coast and I'm in the desert. We think it becomes humid anytime after 8% (Guy can relate to this). Totally agree with Ken on the humidity. I keep the studio set at around 40% and have had no problems with the 9900 (the 9800 and older 4000 were more forgiving).

Guys printer is a steal. If I had more room and needed a smaller print format I'd gobble it up.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Geez dont rub it in Don, heading out now to go shoot more Blue Palm trees in the field. Bringing a towel with me, gonna need it. LOL
 

D&A

Well-known member
If Guy could shove that thing on a pallet, I'd strongly be considering it too. Alternatively, if he's willing to make the drive east to deliver, the least I could do is have a burger and fries with a cold one ready when he arrives....LOL!

Dave (D&A)
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Im coming to NY i think July 20th but a truck is bringing all our stiff for the show. I can put it on the truck. No problem
 
From my experience, the Epson's prefer daily use even the newer models. I leave mine one all the time except when a thunderstorm is expected. If I don't have a series of prints scheduled, I will run a pattern that I picked up from Wayne Fox, who posts on this forum quite a bit. He has a multicolored test print that exercises all the nozzles.

The Canon line up handle clogs differently in that they map out the clog and allow the user to replace the head.

Also +1 on the Charles Cramer class, he had stopped doing them for a while, I am glad to see he is back with a schedule. However Jeff Shewe has put a lot of time into the Digital Print, and to his credit it's written in a very user friendly format, a ton a great help in that book.

Paul
Paul, I don't recall Charlie had stopped his class since I know him since last 12 yr. or so. He was teaching with Bill Atkinson before. Bill dosen't teach anymore, Charlie is doing with Rex Naden since then.

I think Charlie's class and Jeff Schewe's book are two different thing. Both can help. Since you mentioned, I will read Jeff Schewe's book for technical interest, and thanks for sharing it.

Probably you have taken Charlie's class as well. What I like from Charlie's class is how to artistically interpret an image. How to treat color, tone and density. How to desaturate was most important lesson I have learned probably. How human brain interprets an image in short term and long term and the role of color saturation. Now I need to rework on many of my images :).

Nothing compares with when Charlie looks over your shoulder and provides his critiques and suggestions. He doesn't allow to make large print, unless he makes sure everything is right and you need to graduate from each size before moving to next size print of the same image.

Another important thing is, he gives his own images as exercise to work on an shows techniques he had applied to make those museum quality prints. You start working on your images during mid-way of the class. Wish his class could have been for longer duration (beyond 3 full days).

I have seen very few passionate photography instructors like Charlie, Michael Frye and Keith Walklet.

Subrata
 
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Craig Stocks

Well-known member
I have a bit of a different opinion. I do all of my own printing on a large Epson, and I also do a lot of finishing post processing with Capture One, Lightroom and Photoshhop. But there is little if anything I do differently for print versus web. My post processing is to create the best image I'm capable of producing. I think most people simply glance at images online but really look at a physical print, so we tend to be more critical and discerning of prints, but the same weaknesses are there in an online version too... we just don't notice.

In short, I don't see printing as hard. What's hard is creating the ideal finished image. Actually printing the image is pretty straight forward and mechanical, but we tend to be more critical of the result when we really see our image.

The only real differences in my workflow are color space (ProPhoto RGB for print and sRGB for online) and final sharpening.
 

RBull

New member
Hope this does not sound too much like a sell, but my company has been offering larger format custom printing for photographers for over 15 years.
We have (3) 60" Canon IPF 12 color Pigmented Ink printers, and are one of the very few Hahnemühle Certified print shops in the USA. We always include test prints with every order, so its truly a collaboration between artist and printer. Bullivant Gallery
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
This is a good point, and it is indeed the case for many different images. That said, this is part of the job description...at least for my work. Being a good printer is not just making sure the image on the screen matches the final print, although that is a very important skill. Most clients have an idealized image in their head, and it is the printer's job to work with them to draw that out. So the file preparation is indeed the bulk of the work for most clients.

A lot of the artists I work with often have a very good idea of what they want, but they don't have the technical skills to get their files there. Or if they do, they often do it in destructive ways. Many times people will come in with other prints or artworks and want you to match it. Getting the images right before printing is much of the job. I have some clients who bring me a fully prepared file that just needs to be adjusted for the paper and printer quirks, but roughly 75% of my clients wind up having me do more substantive processing on the files...not just people who are not technically inclined either...

As for the printing itself, there are some technical challenges, but the most important skills are visual and interpersonal: developing an eye for what can improve images, knowing when and how to deal with clients -- for example, when to try to suggest fixes for problems you see and when to just hold your tongue, and steering people towards papers and formats that best suit their intentions and aesthetic.



I have a bit of a different opinion. I do all of my own printing on a large Epson, and I also do a lot of finishing post processing with Capture One, Lightroom and Photoshhop. But there is little if anything I do differently for print versus web. My post processing is to create the best image I'm capable of producing. I think most people simply glance at images online but really look at a physical print, so we tend to be more critical and discerning of prints, but the same weaknesses are there in an online version too... we just don't notice.

In short, I don't see printing as hard. What's hard is creating the ideal finished image. Actually printing the image is pretty straight forward and mechanical, but we tend to be more critical of the result when we really see our image.

The only real differences in my workflow are color space (ProPhoto RGB for print and sRGB for online) and final sharpening.
 

RBull

New member
Being a good printer is not just making sure the image on the screen matches the final print, although that is a very important skill. Most clients have an idealized image in their head, and it is the printer's job to work with them to draw that out. So the file preparation is indeed the bulk of the work for most clients.

A lot of the artists I work with often have a very good idea of what they want, but they don't have the technical skills to get their files there.
That's an excellent point. My personal background is in photography, degree, ran a commercial ad studio for 15 years, and then transitioned into the printing business, mostly from the demand of others wanting a "visual partnership" that photo labs don't offer (in fact most don't want to talk to you at all…just upload your images and we'll let the computer spit out your print).

The advantage of a collaboration with a great printer is multi fold; first, they can objectively look at your image from a technical and artistic point of view. Second, they have the experience of printing for many different artist and different types of work on a variety of medias, and are hopefully experts at color managed workflow. Also, they will have larger printers (typically) and stock a variety of medias so you can quickly test ideas.

There are many advantages, and I think the most challenging part is for the artist/photographer to realize they are NOT giving up any control over the final print they are actually adding a HUGE amount of control to it by having such a creative partner to work with.


_______________________________________
Fine Art Printing for Photographers: www.BullivantGallery.com
 

Stuart Richardson

Active member
I completely agree...the control point is very good as well. I take as much control as the client wants -- for some they just give me the raw files and have me do everything else, but most have a clear idea of what they want, but are often not completely aware of all the possibilities.

For example, I recently did a job for a gallery here where the work consisted of pairing star trail images with portraits of a dying man. The portraits were just of the head, floating moonlike in a black space. The client had initially wanted a standard Hahnemühle matte paper, but to me the silveriness and slight shine of Photo Rag Satin seemed like a better choice. It is a bit of an oddball paper, but it fit extremely well for this work. I did a small test for him, and he agreed that it was a much better fit than either a standard matte paper or a luster/gloss paper. The client knew what they wanted, and would have been happy with a fine art matte paper, but once they saw a new option, they were even happier.

I certainly do not want to persuade anyone against printing for themselves, as I think that is great thing to do. Many people, however, are simply not of that mindset. Even for those that are, working with a good printer is like having a non-judgmental advisor. They give you another set of eyes and can confront you with options you might not have considered. If you then decide not to go that route, that's fine, but it can be very helpful.

When I was learning darkroom printing at ICP, I studied with Brian Young, who is their master printer. I remember presenting him with a "finished" print. He said it was good, but suggested a few different tweaks -- a slightly different exposure, a bit more burning at a different grade etc. I went back into the darkroom and did it again, and wow...it was much better. I had thought I was done, but the advice was spot on. I try to emulate that approach in my work. It may take a few more decades, but one day I will get there!
 
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