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Thread: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

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    Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    Hello Guys,

    Sorry one more bloody beginner question:
    Are there any differences in Mamiya D vs "normal" lenses. For Example: I have seen several Mamiya/P1 80mm. With LS with D only AF ?!?!?

    Are there differences?

    Thank you.
    regards
    mueller123

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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    To know the answer, you have to look at each lens in question, checking the Mamiya spec's for the older AF versions.

    There are basically 3 possible versions, besides the much older MF versions.

    1. The Mamiya AF version that goes back as much as 12 maybe 15 years in age. This includes the 35mm, 45mm, 55. All of these lenses have been rebadged as D versions over the years.

    The 35mm and 45mm both have the same number of elements and groups between the D and non-D versions. Supposedly the D versions have "better" QA and should have possible closer tolerances. Not sure on how much I believe that as I have tried both the 35mm D and 45mm D and own both the 35mm and 45mm non D AF versions. I did not notice any marked differences.

    The 55mm (not sure if it has a D version, but for sure has the LS version). The 55 AF is one of the best all round lenses I ever used with my DF. Very sharp but also considerably shallow DOF, even at F11. Wide open very shallow.

    The 80mm D added the chuck to allow you to turn AF on or off on the lens, it's a rotating ring. I own this lens and it's an exceptional lens. I also owned the previous AF version and my D version is better.

    The 55 LS seems to be a totally different lens as does the 110LS, I have not used either on of these, but all the reports are excellent.

    The 28mm AF, D and LS all pretty much are the same, just look up the numbers of elements/grouping. For the price, I am not very keen on this lens, and traded mine in for a 28mm Rodenstock tech lens, and have never regretted this, only wish that Rodenstock had developed this lens around a 90mm IC.

    The 75-150, still stands out as my by best, sharpest all round great lens. I have the AF non D version Mamiya branded version. Mine is sharp throughout the zoom range and besides being very heavy, I love it. Sadly I don't use it that much anymore since I have switched over to the Tech solution.

    The 240LS appears to be in a class by itself, expectational lens. It's on my wish list.

    Paul
    Paul Caldwell
    [email protected]
    www.photosofarkansas.com
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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    This question keeps coming up, so you might run a search.

    There are five levels of Mamiya lenses:

    MF
    AF non D
    AF D
    Phase One
    LS

    The gaps between the levels vary according to the specific lens model.
    In 80mm I would definitely stay away from MF and AF non D.
    I found no optical difference between Phase One and LS copies.
    AF D - the older copies are slightly less sharp, but the new ones in the stores are the same as Phase One.

    I would stay away from all the zooms pre Phase One.

    Do you want to know about specific models?
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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    Imo, your selection of lenses depends on your model of MFDB. If you have an older MFDB, most all the lenses available will work fine. Current model and higher megapixel MFDBs are generally going to require "better" lenses and a heavier hit to your pocket book. Formerly "loved lenses" may not pass muster with the latest greatest MFDBs.

    Additionally, MFDBs with slight crop factors (1.1 or 1.3) may further open up your selection of lenses. For example, some may complain of softness in the corners on the Phase/Mamiya 28D/LS using a FF 645 sensor MFDB, but with a P45+ or IQ140 this probably won't be an issue because of the crop factor.

    In general, you're better off with D series lenses (at least). Some D series seem to be slightly worked over, claimed better lens coatings, and QC. You do get a fancy silver band on the lens barrel, not to be missed by the fashion conscious. Other D series lenses are simply phenomenal, such as the 150 D. Schneider LS series lenses generally are on par with the D series, with the added bonus of leaf shutter. Some newer lens offerings are only available by SK LS such as the 240LS and coming 40-80LS. You need at least the DF body to take advantage of LS lenses.

    ken

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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    Hello Guys,
    thank you so much for the infos. My MFDB is between 22MPix and 40Mpix. Range because i have no back yet. I try to build up a system.
    I am a landscape guy and i think 35mm, 80mm and something over 100mm should be ok for the first step. 28mm i to wide (in my opinion). For Landscape a leaf shutter is not necessary!?! Is this right?
    mueller123

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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    If you're a "landscape only" kinda guy, you might want to consider foregoing the Mamiya/Phase AF/DF body completely and consider using a technical camera only (Alpa, Arca, Cambo). Full movements and top-notch glass from Schneider or Rodenstock.

    It's only money.

    ken

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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by mueller123 View Post
    Hello Guys,
    thank you so much for the infos. My MFDB is between 22MPix and 40Mpix. Range because i have no back yet. I try to build up a system.
    I am a landscape guy and i think 35mm, 80mm and something over 100mm should be ok for the first step. 28mm i to wide (in my opinion). For Landscape a leaf shutter is not necessary!?! Is this right?
    mueller123
    The tech cam solution suggested, while great, can be pretty expensive.

    Leaf shutter is definitely not necessary.
    22/40 backs can be 44x33mm or 48x36mm - not the same lenses apply.
    For 44x33 you might need a 28mm.
    28mm D is OK for me, many here complained about it - I do not understand why.
    35mm is iffy in all versions, and starts to be acceptable only in Phase One D generation.
    80mm also I would strongly suggest Phase One D.
    Both 35 and 80 Phase Ones are different from the initial batches of Mamiya D.
    I don't know really why you would need a 100mm, but then again I don't do landscapes.
    Phase One Macro 120mm D MF is pretty good - but the next AF version is even better.
    The 120mm TS lens is probably better for landscapes but very expensive.

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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    Hello Guys,
    thank you for your very good infos. They are very useful. Here are some two pictures of the Mamiya 45mm. They are sold used very different amounts. And they should be very simmilar? Is this right?

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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    The top picture is the 45D and the bottom picture is the 45AF (non D).
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    In 45 the D is much better and I would stay away completely from non D.

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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    OK? There should be differnt opinons in this part. Are there some comarisons on the web to see the differences.. Have you test it?

    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by shlomi View Post
    In 45 the D is much better and I would stay away completely from non D.

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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    I have, and I doubt very much you will find other opinions on this one.

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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    for landscape the old 55AF mamiya is really good at F8 / F11

    in 45, you need the D really !

    the 80D is good

    at F8 F11 the old 150AF is not so bad, and really affordable !

    But, new versions are even better… but for that amount of money :

    For landscape, i'm using an ARCA RM3D with my leaf back anyway !
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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by shlomi View Post
    28mm D is OK for me, many here complained about it - I do not understand why.
    The 120mm TS lens is probably better for landscapes but very expensive.
    If the 28D is OK for you, you either have a 1.3 crop back or a copy of the lens you should guard with your life. That said, I did use one copy of the lens on a Credo 60 that was a Capture Integration demo lens, and it was good enough for me, so perhaps there is an extreme amount of sample variation. The 120 is a lens that doesn't quite work, but I can't tell you why, I think it might be a size/balance thing. It may be OK out of the studio, but for table top work it is a fail. That's why you never seem them in the wild. IME, both of these lenses are what sell tech cams, or Hasselblads.

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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    I find the 120mm quite good. It's not a lens meant to be shot wide open (most macros are not). And, like most macros, diffraction limitations can be a major annoyance if you want to get a lot of DOF. But at it's prime (f/8-f/13 or so depending on the back) it's a stellar lens.

    As for seeing them out in the wild, I guess I never see them prancing with antelopes, but it's probably in our top four or five selling lenses (after the 55/80/110).

    The 28D/28LS are good very-wide lenses for an SLR design. But all heavily retrofocus designs are inherently hard to make awesome. Then add to that the tendancy for medium format shooters to be pushing them to 60mp or even 80mp of performance and you'll quickly see why the Rodenstock 23HR/28HR/32HR and Schneider 28XL are so well regarded.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Mamiya/Phase One lens D or normal?

    i have a 120 D and 120 non D… both are similar and really good for artwork reproduction (with a dm33).

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