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ALPA Rumors 2014

jotloob

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

Yes , me too .
I could imagine , that the FPS is split into two units (shutter unit + electronics) and the electronics can be controlled from your iPHONE .
Haha just kidding .:ROTFL:
 
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narikin

New member
Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

I would love a smaller FPS.

Often I find myself leaving the FPS behind in favor of the TC, just for size and simplicity of use. I prefer the functionality of the FPS, but it seems to have been shaped by the need to be a shutter unit in a stitching-shifting situation, rather than formed purely as stand-alone camera. Personally I'd love that priority to be changed in a 'TC-FP' or whatever they wish to call it.
 
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vjbelle

Well-known member
Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

How about an FPS that has a completely vibration-less shutter instead of the clunker it has? Now that would be a real accomplishment!!

Victor
 
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gerald.d

Well-known member
Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

vjbelle said:
How about an FPS that has a completely vibration-less shutter instead of the clunker it has? Now that would be a real accomplishment!!

Victor
Click to expand...
Recently I've been shooting plenty of images with a 600mm focal length (Mamiya 300mm/2.8 & 2x teleconverter) on the FPS at relatively low shutter speeds with a lot of success.

The shutter has mass. It moves. It stops.

Basic physics says that there's going to be some energy that has to be dissipated somehow. You simply need to ensure the camera/lens combination is absolutely locked down (I use a rail with both lens and camera bolted to it), and increase the mass of the entire imaging system (i.e. use a decent tripod, and weigh it down).

Kind regards,

Gerald.
 
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vjbelle

Well-known member
I can appreciate your experiences but mine were very different. With my 100mm and 150mm Digitar's I saw evidence of shutter vibration that wasn't there/disappeared when using the leaf shutter. Its very easy to move from one shutter to the other as I'm sure you know. So..... I don't own an FPS and won't until I see that this shutter has been dramatically improved.

Victor
 
R

rupho

New member
My vote goes for a "FPS shift" : Let's marry the convenience of an electronic shutter with the versatility of a MAX or at least STC. Question is: does this work from an engineering point of view and would this cannibalize sales of the 6 series?
 
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narikin

New member
Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

vjbelle said:
How about an FPS that has a completely vibration-less shutter instead of the clunker it has? Now that would be a real accomplishment!!

Victor
Click to expand...
Have you ever seriously used an FPS? It seems not. The shutter is absolutely *not* a "clunker" its very good, relatively discreet (considering its size) and far better than the loud noise of a Phase or Hasselblad body. Or for that matter the Sony A7R, imho.

what Focal Plane Shutter is 'vibration less'? I don't know of one.
 
N

narikin

New member
rupho said:
My vote goes for a "FPS shift" : Let's marry the convenience of an electronic shutter with the versatility of a MAX or at least STC. Question is: does this work from an engineering point of view and would this cannibalize sales of the 6 series?
Click to expand...
You can marry the FPS to an STC or Max already, so this is not going to happen.
 
R

rupho

New member
narikin said:
You can marry the FPS to an STC or Max already, so this is not going to happen.
Click to expand...
But it's a rather pointless exercise since there are very few lenses that shift in this set up 120XL and 90HR come to my mind, the 50HR is the shortest 34SB lens but it hits the FPS internals with just 5mm of movement.
No wide angle lens can be shifted , the 50 is the widest to my knowledge when the FPS and STC/Max are combined
In any case I know I am dreaming here but I bought tHe max for movements and the FPS for the electronics a combo would make my (working) day
 
thrice

thrice

Active member
I'd love if they could update the swa with rear lateral shift without sacrificing the vertical front rise. Landscape panoramic monster.
 
V

vjbelle

Well-known member
Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

narikin said:
Have you ever seriously used an FPS? It seems not. The shutter is absolutely *not* a "clunker" its very good, relatively discreet (considering its size) and far better than the loud noise of a Phase or Hasselblad body. Or for that matter the Sony A7R, imho.

what Focal Plane Shutter is 'vibration less'? I don't know of one.
Click to expand...
I *HAVE* owned an FPS. Very past tense! Returned for shutter vibration issues. If you're happy spending over $11,000.00 for shutter vibration then that's your business..... I'm not. For that kind of money there should be zero vibration issues. Alpa know's of this issue and was quick to move from the longer lenses to shorter lenses to mitigate it. I'll take another look if/when they ever go electronic.

Victor
 
V

vjbelle

Well-known member
gerald.d said:
ALPA have posted an interesting focal plane/leaf shutter comparison on their website -

ALPA of Switzerland - Manufacturers of remarkable cameras - News

This definitely concurs with the experience I've been having lately shooting with the Mamiya 300mm/2.8 and teleconverter - if you take care, the impact of possible vibration caused by the focal plane shutter can be mitigated.

Kind regards,

Gerald.
Click to expand...
Gerald..... did you notice - no 1/15, no 1/30, no 1/60. I wonder why?? At 1 sec or 1/4 second vibration is just about mitigated. 1/125 is at the edge of vibration. As I've said before I shoot with my 100 and 150 Digitars. The digitar's are basically 1 f stop lenses (f11). This means that its easy to be in the *real* danger zone for vibration (1/15 - 1/60). The Alpa test is pure propaganda.

Regards.....

Victor
 
G

gerald.d

Well-known member
Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

vjbelle said:
I *HAVE* owned an FPS. Very past tense! Returned for shutter vibration issues. If you're happy spending over $11,000.00 for shutter vibration then that's your business..... I'm not. For that kind of money there should be zero vibration issues. Alpa know's of this issue and was quick to move from the longer lenses to shorter lenses to mitigate it. I'll take another look if/when they ever go electronic.

Victor
Click to expand...
As I've already mentioned - I don't have any problems with shutter vibration from the FPS at focal lengths up to 600mm as long as I take care with how everything is set up.

Couple of examples, both 300mm, 100% crops.

First, focused on the Moon, shutter speed 1/6th of a second:



Second, focused on the building, shutter speed 0.7 seconds:



This was on a light Gitzo tripod with no additional weighting.

Maybe I'm not being critical enough, but I'm not convinced those images show any issues from shutter vibration?

I'm not being deliberately argumentative, I'm genuinely perplexed as to why you had so much trouble - it's a real shame to miss out on the benefits of the FPS system if there's an issue that can be resolved with a particular shooting technique.

I've got a nice wide selection of lenses that I can call on - what focal length and shutter speed were giving you problems? I'd be interested to see for myself whether I have the same issues with a particular combination.

Kind regards,

Gerald.
 
V

vjbelle

Well-known member
Re: ALPA rumors Photokina 2012

gerald.d said:
I'm not being deliberately argumentative, I'm genuinely perplexed as to why you had so much trouble - it's a real shame to miss out on the benefits of the FPS system if there's an issue that can be resolved with a particular shooting technique.

I've got a nice wide selection of lenses that I can call on - what focal length and shutter speed were giving you problems? I'd be interested to see for myself whether I have the same issues with a particular combination.

Kind regards,

Gerald.
Click to expand...
Gerald,

When I had my FPS I was thrilled for once having the ability to dial in a shutter speed in tenth's if I wanted and have my f stop of choice. No more being forced into whole f stop's for shutter speed changes. I was willing to take on the extra bulk and weight. For the first two days I busy just getting into every aspect of the FPS and was completely overjoyed with what it could do. Then...... I started to look at my images from my IQ180 at 100% and was taken back that they were soft. I'm pretty good at nailing focus but blamed it on focus - took more images and looked again and sure enough they were soft. In fact they were soft everywhere - I couldn't find *any* in focus area (f11). So, I decided to see if maybe, just maybe there were shutter issues. I was using my STC in combination with the FPS and mounted my 150mm Digitar and shot my house from about 150 feet. The FPS was set to 5 second delay. I then switched shutters and shot with the STC and cable release (same shutter speed for both). Examination showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was significant shutter vibration with the focal plain shutter which was *completely* absent when using the leaf shutter. That was it for me..... it all just really started to make sense..... they were using the same shutter that Mamiya supplies to Phase and that camera is completely useless with longer lenses in the danger shutter speed zone (I own one!!). There's no reason why the FPS would be any better...... and if there was a fix it would have been implemented by now with a firmware upgrade. Obviously it can't be done. Alpa bragged about their shutter being vibration free and I bought it hook line and sinker. It took me three days to figure out that the opposite existed and I sent it back for a refund. Anyone who posts about these shutters not being completely vibration free and we should all just live with it *can* live with it..... I'm not. Not for that kind of money...... and I can easily afford it. For your sake I'm glad you are pleased and I hope the FPS brings you great pleasure. Didn't work for me......

Victor
 
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