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Thread: Surface Pro 3 arrived

  1. #51
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    A compact carriable MFD tethering solution for using in the field is an interesting aspect for many of us tech cam users. It's easier to understand a composition when you see it on a large screen.

    For me personally I'd love a compact portable solution to circumvent the really bad screens of most legacy backs (the only backs I can afford) where you can't even check sharpness, which do me is a desirable feature. However as the helpful responders above pointed out it's not possible as the legacy backs have firewire and Surface Pros don't, and there is no working converter on the market.

    I don't find Macs being a good solution for me, much too fragile for the type of hiking and various weather conditions I do. The Surface Pro is probably to fragile too, but there's a lot more likely to find robuster units in the Windows world than in the Mac world, but firewire is kind of dead for PCs :-\. So what I'm looking at is staying with the Aptus series for the time being which is the only legacy back that has working sharpness check.

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived


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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Thanks gerald, interesting unit, seems like it could work. I realize now that I've seen it before... memory is short sometimes .
    Last edited by torger; 21st August 2014 at 04:49.

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Interesting thread this, but why is it on the MF forum?
    If you read through the entire thread (as well as the preceding thread with the introduction of the Surface Pro 2 being used with the Phase IQ and Leaf Credo) you'll get a better understanding of why the Surface Pro is a game changer for those tethering on location with USB enabled MFDBs.

    It's especially valuable for those using technical cameras and MFDBs, though I've also found it helpful at times using the Phase DF on location as well.

    And certainly much more on point than, oh say, discussion about a beta Sony camera app for the Nex 5/6 and adding cute heart-shaped catch lights in the eyes.

    Ken

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    The Sahara slate is interesting especially the part about the LCD optimized for outdoor viewing. But I could only see a 4 gb ram max. There may be other models I missed. Aldo did not see a FireWire port.

    Paul

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Beautiful two shots Ken of the Cambo and kit- makes me want to go out and shoot now!! .

    Last time i forgot the stylus, makes life difficult - now I have two extras, one lives in my camera bag, the other in the elastic loop.

    Best

    Phil
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    The Sahara slate is interesting especially the part about the LCD optimized for outdoor viewing. But I could only see a 4 gb ram max. There may be other models I missed. Aldo did not see a FireWire port.

    Paul
    The link takes you to Sahara Slate PC i500 Tablet PCs (1st Generation) which have Firewire 400. But it looks like those have been discontinued.

    Would this 6-pin IEEE1394a (Firewire) power a Leaf Aptus back?


    The new Sahara Slate PC i500 Tablet PCs (2nd Generation) don't list firewire. These have upgradeable memory, so the included 4.0 GB can be upgraded to 8.0 GB or 16GB.

    Looks like they come with 32-bit Windows 7. Capture One Pro 7 requires 64-bit Windows.

    As for pricing, the new Sahara Slate PC i575 Intel Core i7-based model starts at US$2,149 (4GB RAM, 500GB HD).


    Without Firewire 800 and 64-bit Windows, these will not be what we wanted for tethering.


    --Steve.

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_cor View Post
    The link takes you to Sahara Slate PC i500 Tablet PCs (1st Generation) which have Firewire 400. But it looks like those have been discontinued.

    Would this 6-pin IEEE1394a (Firewire) power a Leaf Aptus back?


    The new Sahara Slate PC i500 Tablet PCs (2nd Generation) don't list firewire. These have upgradeable memory, so the included 4.0 GB can be upgraded to 8.0 GB or 16GB.

    Looks like they come with 32-bit Windows 7. Capture One Pro 7 requires 64-bit Windows.

    As for pricing, the new Sahara Slate PC i575 Intel Core i7-based model starts at US$2,149 (4GB RAM, 500GB HD).


    Without Firewire 800 and 64-bit Windows, these will not be what we wanted for tethering.


    --Steve.
    Steve - why is Firewire 800 required for tethering?

    Speaking to Phase One, I think I'm right in saying that all backs prior to the IQ series used 400 (certainly my Achromatic+ does). If you have a back with Firewire 800, then it's IQ series, and therefore also has a USB 3 port, so it's not an issue because you can use the Surface.

    The lack of 64-bit Windows would appear to be the deal breaker IF you weren't prepared to use an older version of Capture One for tethering, but what would be the problem with that?

    The model linked to can be upgraded to 8GB of RAM, and is listed as still available to "legacy" customers.

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Torger's back, the Leaf, only has the firewire connection.

    Steve, thanks for the info. I also wonder now for the price point if the 500GB drive is a 2.5 sized normal drive, or solid state. If the later that's a pretty good deal.

    Surprised they default to 32 windows however, and do they support the 64ibt OS (drivers).

    Paul

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Torger's back, the Leaf, only has the firewire connection.
    It's FireWire 800, and you can't use it with a computer that is only FireWire 400? Is that the problem?

    Kind regards,

    Gerald.

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    I think the bigger problem is the model with Firewire 400 is no longer made. As I recall the there are plug adapters to allow a 400 to work with a 800 plug, you still run at the slower 400 speeds.

    From looking at their site, I couldn't find a current model with Firewire and a 64 bit OS, version of windows.

    If that is still there, then yes, it should work and be a good fit, especially with the screen.

    Paul

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Imho, the Sahara slate misses the mark. It's weight is over 3 pounds compared to the ~2 pounds of the Surface Pro. At that point and price, I think it would simply be easier to go with a Macbook Air with the confidence that "you know it works" (Firewire/Thunderbolt) albeit not with the ease and form factor of using a Surface Pro and USB3 on location.

    I do believe there is another tablet with a suped up PC heritage that I ran across in my research/quest, but it was also pretty expensive.

    And with that in mind, shouldn't we all just be encouraging Torger to upgrade to that USB3 capable IQ/Credo series MFDB that he always wanted anyway? And think of all the money you'll be saving by buying an inexpensive Surface Pro instead...

    ken

    p.s. Seriously, IQ140 or Credo 40 (with USB3) might be within range and with similarly sized sensor to your current MFDB....

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    I have tried the new Surface Pro 3, with the i7 CPU.
    This CPU is a real i7, including a fast 40 core GPU - The Intel Pro 5000.

    Capture One 7 is running great. Even (sligthly) faster than the newest Macbook Pro - despite the i7 is a low power device. Capture One Icons are a bit small, and the pen is recommended for best control.

    -Lionel
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    A few more tips, and info.

    1. If you have a Surface 2, I would recommend you enable "hibernation". This is a feature that Microsoft has had since XP days, created for laptops. The main difference between hibernation and sleep, is that with hibernation, you will totally power off the unit, sleep still has a charge going. In the field, you don't need wifi, bluetooth or anti virus. So I bring up 2 up and disable all of this stuff before I head out, lauch C1 and hibernate the device. Thus when I power on, C1 is there just where I left it and all the other components I don't need are off, and will stay off as long as I select hibernate in the power off options. You will save a considerable amout of battery with this. Also the turning off the wifi helps alot since the connection is no longer actively seeking a connection, which it will do as long as it's on. By default hibernate is not an option on the 2, and you have to enable it under advanced features in power management.

    2. As much as I like the Surface pro 3, for a laptop, as Ken first pointed out, it's a bit big around the tripod. You have to be a bit more careful with it when using it tethered in the field. I have gone back to my Surface 2 for now.

    3. In outdoor temps of over 95 degrees F, the fan on the Surface 2 will come on. However this doesn't seem to really effect the battery life that much. Extended use in 95 to 100 degree heat seems to task the Surface 2 and will definitely task the Surface 3.
    I was testing yesterday with the 2 and IQ260, and after about 20 minutes my IQ260 was almost too hot to touch. Not sure if this is because the Surface 2 was set to charge or not. A back that hot can't be doing that well even at iso 50 in regards to noise.
    I have started using the 2 and IQ260 to setup the shot, then go to the card on the IQ260. This does breakup the shoot, but it seems to keep the overall heat down. I have also stopped charging the IQ260 battery when tethered.

    4. Sadly, as I thought, the i7 versions are running into overheating issues. These are with both the i7 256 and i7 512. Many users are having issues where the system fan is running a max. Some of the folks are also trying to run high end games on the Surface 3's which I would not try.
    My 3 does seem to run the fan during charging, but I have not yet seen the fan run at max any time, but I stayed away from the i7. Microsoft may come up with a design fix in the future.
    You can read more about various user issues here:Surface Pro 3 bugs keep coming as overheating complaints arise | PCWorld

    Paul

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    I've been using a SP2 for several months now both as a tether to my WRS as well as a smaller lighter travel computer with great success. I just upgraded to the SP3 this morning and will be taking that with me next week when we return to The Palouse to tether and review daily files and leaving the much larger Dell laptop at home.

    Wish me luck!

    Don

    Now I need to figure out what to do with the SP2....
    Don Libby
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Guy Mancuso is reviewing and shooting the Credo 50 right now. You know it's only a matter of time before he buys back into a technical camera.

    Sooooo, Guy. Have you seen what the Surface Pro can do with a USB3 enabled MFDB like the Credo 50 and mated with a tech camera? I know someone who has a SP2 for sale....

    ken

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Ken

    You should be ashamed of yourself
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Just finished loading the 3 up to where I want it. The process surprised me due to the cloud backup; got all the little things moved over and then downloaded C1-8. Spent a couple hours setting the thing up and walked away with no eye strain. I've got very high hopes for this.....
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Hope you enjoy Don! I just really enjoy mine.
    Are you running CP1-8 on it? If so, any issues on your trial tethering/other?
    Best,
    Bob

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Bob, I've had the machine less than 3 hours all of which have been spent setting it up my say (also travel time from the store) so far haven't tried it feathered. And yes running C1-8. At first blush all seems fine...
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Thanks Don. Sorry to be impatient. Hope to hear all goes well with your trip!

    Just curious: IQ1 or 2?
    Thanks and have fun,
    Bob

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    Thanks Don. Sorry to be impatient. Hope to hear all goes well with your trip!

    Just curious: IQ1 or 2?
    Thanks and have fun,
    Bob
    IQ160 soon to be replaced with an IQ180...
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Went out earlier this morning testing the Hartblie on my 7r full spectrum. Got home and found the rest of my SP3 orders had arrived. I'm now using the full size keyboard as well as the "docking" station. After setting everything up it was very easy to plug a USB 3 card reader and thumbdrive and begin transferring files before opening C1-8 and actually do some light processing, saving everything to the thumbdrive. The test today was seeing how well the SP3 performed in being able to actually see the images and doing light post. Glad I got the 256-7 (I pulled the 256 card from the 2 and am using it here for extra drive storage). No issues with WiFi or heat or fan or actually anything.

    Next test will be tomorrow seeing how well it does with the IQ160 files.

    Sitting in an easy chair with the SP3 on my lap typing this. Can't get over the light weight and over all form factor. I'll be doing some tethering soon although we have super crappy skies now and the urge to do any sort of landscape work escapes me.

    Don

    Ken, you need to upgrade!

    It's been pointed out I screwed up the spelling of the Hartblei. Thank you Mr. Gilbert...

    Added thought Oct 1st - the keyboard is much better than what I have on the SP2; both are the type keyboards, the newer one feels much more like a "real" keyboard and the mouse track is much better more responsive as good as my larger laptop.
    Last edited by Don Libby; 1st October 2014 at 07:15. Reason: Keyboard
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    From now on we call it a Hart-belly.....

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    Thanks Don. Sorry to be impatient. Hope to hear all goes well with your trip!

    Just curious: IQ1 or 2?
    Thanks and have fun,
    Bob


    Bob, finally got around to testing the tethering this morning. IT WORKS GREAT!

    I've decided not to wrap this inside a case instead just letting it all hang out. The SP3 is slightly longer yet thinner and I feel it fits much better in the Arkon mount.

    I was so confident this would work I placed the SP2 for sale before I tested the 3 this morning.

    Don
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Terrific Don!! Great news. I may upgrade to C1-8 today.
    Have a great time shooting. I'll have to look into what an Arkon mount is: if you have a link, I'd be appreciative.
    Bob
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    Terrific Don!! Great news. I may upgrade to C1-8 today.
    Have a great time shooting. I'll have to look into what an Arkon mount is: if you have a link, I'd be appreciative.
    Bob
    In order not to reinvent the wheel I'd suggest you go to Ken Doo's blog where he spells everything out and includes links. I also think those links are here as well on the thread he began regarding the SP and tethering.

    I really like 8.1 - so much so that I have it on all 3-of my computers!
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Bob,

    Just for simplicity: Microsoft’s Surface Pro 2: A Game Changer for Phase One IQ Series and Leaf Credo Medium Format Digital Backs | Kendoophotography's Blog

    A shopping list for tethering with the Surface Pro is at the bottom of the blog article. Not all items have links, but you can easily copy/paste to search for the items on Amazon. The model number/description for the Arkon clamp is complete on the blog.

    ken

    p.s. Don's Surface Pro 2 is for sale here: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-...4675-00-a.html if anyone wants an inexpensive entry into tethering with Phase IQ/Credo MFDBs. It really is an extension of the LCD touch screen and is a great addition. WiFi can't compete with what the Surface Pro offers!

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Why this forum is so amazing! Thank you both Don and Ken!! And for all the great folks and companies who support this site. Thank you thank you!!


    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Bob,

    Just for simplicity: Microsoft’s Surface Pro 2: A Game Changer for Phase One IQ Series and Leaf Credo Medium Format Digital Backs | Kendoophotography's Blog

    A shopping list for tethering with the Surface Pro is at the bottom of the blog article. Not all items have links, but you can easily copy/paste to search for the items on Amazon. The model number/description for the Arkon clamp is complete on the blog.

    ken

    p.s. Don's Surface Pro 2 is for sale here: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs-...4675-00-a.html if anyone wants an inexpensive entry into tethering with Phase IQ/Credo MFDBs. It really is an extension of the LCD touch screen and is a great addition. WiFi can't compete with what the Surface Pro offers!

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    You can also click on the Amazon banner at the top of the GetDPI page when you search/shop for Surface Pro tethering items, which will also help support GetDPI.

    ken

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    SP3 - have microsoft improved the stylus/screen alignment with this version? It drives me nuts with my SP1 since text in menus is small and it's tough to hit exactly the right spot if the pen is tilted. The screen/cursor alignment isn't very good compared to my Wacom Cintiq for example.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Stylus? You can't control it by voice command?

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Stylus? You can't control it by voice command?
    I give it plenty of voice commands but it doesn't seem to respond to my english accent or at least not to my anglo-saxon profanities ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    SP3 - have microsoft improved the stylus/screen alignment with this version? It drives me nuts with my SP1 since text in menus is small and it's tough to hit exactly the right spot if the pen is tilted. The screen/cursor alignment isn't very good compared to my Wacom Cintiq for example.
    Graham, I would say the stylus is much more accurate, on pin point type selections than on the SP2. The Stylus is different design, not Wacom like on the 1 and 2.

    Keyboard is also a huge improvement, especially the mouse pad.

    Adobe CC loads the max screen resolution for the UI, which makes viewing the various things like menus, tool bar, brushes etc a bit hard to read since they are very small. This is not the case with C1 or LR. Not sure if there is a way to change the default settings on CC to make those items a bit larger. You can change the UI to load at 200%, but IMO that's too large.

    Paul
    Last edited by Paul2660; 3rd October 2014 at 15:00.

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post

    I really like 8.1 - so much so that I have it on all 3-of my computers!
    8.1???

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Win 8.1 is most current version. If you have a 2 or 3 surface the OS should auto update to the 8.1 version.

    I believe all the Surface 2 units were loaded with 8.1, all the 3 units are.

    Paul

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Win 8.1 is most current version. If you have a 2 or 3 surface the OS should auto update to the 8.1 version.

    I believe all the Surface 2 units were loaded with 8.1, all the 3 units are.

    Paul
    Thanks. Thought C1 Pro had released 8.1...

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    I had a senior moment when I wrote that. Thinking of C1-8 and Win 8.1 and ended up saying 8.1 instead of 8. Rereading this makes it sound like gibberish. Sorry for the confusion.

    C1-8 is a great update; so much so that I have it on 3-computers.

    Back to work now...

    Don
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Three things I like about the 3 are the screen size, improved keyboard and pen. The screen is slightly larger and has much better resolution which makes working on C1 a hell of a lot easier. The keyboard has a much improved touch pad and after getting used to where the new right/left mouse buttons are is no problem at all. I think the keys are slightly larger due to the overall size which is a good thing. I wasn't prepared for the pen as I had realized they changed it. The surprise was having a AAAA-size battery. I've checked Amazon and found they are available so no real worries on the battery. I like the feel of the pen over what I think was a smaller one on the 2. It also seems to be a little more responsive.

    I've done a bit of processing in C1-8 on the 3 and like having both a larger screen as well as the resolution. The limited testing I've done tethered using just the pen and my finger leads me to believe there won't be a huge problem in the field.

    I haven't tried PS-CC on it and not certain I will. The main reason I have this is to tether and have a means of saving daily files until I get back in the studio. This is very close to a laptop for me however since I haven't figured out a try and true method of color calibrating the monitor I'll hold off doing any real work on it.

    Don
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Darn it ... I knew it was expensive hanging around the likes of Don & Ken (aka the enablers).

    Loading up the new i5 256GB SP3 right now.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    I had a senior moment when I wrote that. Thinking of C1-8 and Win 8.1 and ended up saying 8.1 instead of 8. Rereading this makes it sound like gibberish. Sorry for the confusion.

    C1-8 is a great update; so much so that I have it on 3-computers.

    Back to work now...

    Don
    I was wondering, because I really don't know anybody that's exactly ecstatic about Windows 8.... ...which is why I recommend and like using Classic Shell on my SP2. So now that you've clarified the matter, we know it's C1 Pro 8 you're talking about having on all your computers!

    ken

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Darn it ... I knew it was expensive hanging around the likes of Don & Ken (aka the enablers).

    Loading up the new i5 256GB SP3 right now.

    Wwhat---no Core i7?

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    I was wondering, because I really don't know anybody that's exactly ecstatic about Windows 8.... ...which is why I recommend and like using Classic Shell on my SP2. So now that you've clarified the matter, we know it's C1 Pro 8 you're talking about having on all your computers!

    ken
    You could always run OSX on the Surface Pro (2 for sure, 3 is still being worked on)

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    I was wondering, because I really don't know anybody that's exactly ecstatic about Windows 8.... ...which is why I recommend and like using Classic Shell on my SP2. So now that you've clarified the matter, we know it's C1 Pro 8 you're talking about having on all your computers!

    ken
    Glad we got that cleared up
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Wwhat---no Core i7?
    Kind of surprised as well Graham I figured you for an i7 type guy
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    C1-8 is a great update; so much so that I have it on 3-computers.

    Don
    Now all we need is a firmware update from Phase One so that the IQ1's can take advantage of the multi-focus capabilities of C1-8. I sure hope it doesn't take as long as the firmware for USB3 took...
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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Bob,

    Would that be the multiple focus meter views in live view or is there anything in tethered capture that will bring up multiple views - say a foreground/background view for tilt adjustments?

    Day 2 - FINALLY windoze has finished it's updates, SP3 firmware updates, etc etc. Every time I get a new non-Mac laptop I remind myself how much I truly loathe windows ...

    Now off to do some tethered testing again. I think that I need an anti-glare cover for the SP3 though as it's a mirror in bright sunlight.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Bob,

    Would that be the multiple focus meter views in live view or is there anything in tethered capture that will bring up multiple views - say a foreground/background view for tilt adjustments?
    I don't know if it works in Live View, but it seems to me you can mark 3 focal points on an image and when you take the next image, it will show you all three at once. Per the Phase One page it says it currently only works on IQ backs,
    Capture One Pro features
    but it actually DOESN'T work on IQ1 backs. Doug Peterson stated a firmware upgrade will be out "soon"... When you try to do multi-point focusing on the captured image while tethered, you get a pop up error message saying you need a firmware update.

    Since it doesn't work, I can't tell if it works with live view or only after the shot. IMO only when viewing the shot can you really tell... but that may just be my poor eyesight.

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Bob,

    I tried it with my IQ260 fw 5.11.36 which appears to be the latest public firmware version and the live view focus point selection gives me the same error regarding firmware update required.

    I guess we're in version limbo at the moment where Phase One haven't updated publicly the back firmware to match the capabilities of C1 Pro 8.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Surface Pro 3 arrived

    Sorry it's not working for at least the 2's amongst us...
    Fingers crossed as it would be amazing for tilt!

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