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Thread: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    So it is once more time to throw all overboard (almost).

    I have decided to just shoot analog for the coming two years with regards to my landscape photo.

    So I am now selling all my 645 Mamiya stuff + the P45+ back. It is not totally without remorse that I do this.
    But I do it to make things harder for my self as I actually has become to comfortable with this digital solution.
    I always try to make life harder for my self regarding my creative work. And it has always helped me on in my artistry.

    When I bought my firs really good printer, the Epson 4800 I realized that about 90% of my photos I had to throw away because they was not technically good enough for printing at 17 inch.
    Then I bought an Canon iPF8300 44 inch printer and immediately realized that I had to again throw away 90% of the remaning photos
    That also made me buy one big and fat Gitzo tripod

    And now to use 6x6, 6x12 and 4x5 and a little 8x10 for landscape. That means even fewer photos.
    But that is ok, I only need one good photo per" photo day” to make me happy.

    What happen after this two years I do not know. But I do keep my Mamiya RZD system with lenses and film backs and the adapter plate for digital backs i M-mount!
    And I do have the two tilt shift lenses for this system to mitigate the departure of my Hartblei 45mm Tilt/Shift lens for the 645 system.
    The Hartblei has become my absolute favorite lens for the 645 system.

    So I would just want to say thank you all here that has helped me gain knowledge and skill in using the medium format system and using a digital back
    Life is always so much simpler if you had the possibility to stand on the broad shoulders of others that has walked the samme path before you.
    And there is a lot of those shoulders on this site!!!

    But I will continue to pester you with analog photos

    Ray
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    Member GregMO's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Ray, best wishes to you & your artwork. If you havent already, check out large format photography forum.
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    I think that many of us totally understand. Even though we shoot digital there is still something magical about analogue photography and using the big film gear. People ask me why I still use an xpan or 617 or 4x5 at times and it's for the love of the process and engagement. That doesn't need $50k worth of gear to experience the photographic connection and the extra rigour of not seeing the results forcing you to slow down and truly commit to a composition is something that I know I enjoy.

    Good luck with your new endeavors and please share the images back here in the relevant forums.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    i totally understand
    may the ph-orce be with you ..
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    If I didn't have to use it for some of my client work I'd also sell all of my digital gear. I'm already using analog for almost 100% of my personal projects and some assignments too. I find the process much more rewarding and I definitely prefer the results. Enjoy!
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    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    A brave decision - best of luck!
    Do share your film images here!

    Ray -> Ray
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Best wishes! Looking forward to seeing your analog-only work!

    One of the best (and worst) parts of digital is how quickly it changes. So in 2 years you might love the new options. One of the best parts of film is that the major retraction-of-options that occurred when film left the mainstream has already happened, and there is every reason to expect that you'll be able to find/use whatever is on the market today for many years to come with minimal change. In some ways that's frustrating (if there is something you don't like it's very unlikely to be improved) and in some ways it's very liberating (you can reasonably expect to come back to it at any time and find it largely where it was when you left it. Although I haven't shot any film in 5 years I find it existentially compelling that I could whip my 645 pro TL out of its dusty case, buy some tmax, shake it around in some chemicals and get an image - little changes from the last time I used it.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    I love film and shoot it for 100% of my projects (I'm a professional documentary and fine art photographer). I use a Linhof Techno with a 6x7cm film back, a Linhof Technorama 612PCII, a Horseman 45FA and Mamiya 7II. I bought the Techno with an eye to digital capture when the IQ series of Phase backs were released. In the IQ160 and now, even better, the IQ260, I saw the first DMF backs with the resolution, file quality AND feature set I need for my work. Somewhere along the way though I bought an Imacon 949 scanner and, honestly, it's amazing and makes DMF very hard to justify. I think film offers astounding image quality if you are able to control most, if not all elements of the image processing chain. I'm very lucky to live 2mins walk from a good lab, so that helps my workflow a lot... I'm committed to getting a DMF back in the future, but I'm in no real hurry.

    Anyway, long and short of this post is that I see that Pro Centre in London has a used but as new Hasselblad X1 scanner in stock for not much more than you could sell your P45+ and DF. If won't scan your 8x10" negs, but will do everything else.
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    mostly i miss the magic of the darkroom (i shot black and white, 2-1/4 and 4x5) and the craft of fine printing. what i don't miss is the toxic part and the mess. i can find enough challenge with digital to keep me satisfied
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Fun! I'm sure you'll do whatever makes you happy doing it. Film vs digital capture is one of the smaller parts of doing photography. You can always change your mind and do something else when you feel it's the right time.

    I enjoy film, I enjoy digital capture. Neither is the sum total of photography. Both are good tools to work with.

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    This sounds great, good luck with it Ray, not that you'll need it! I have a Rollei tlr sitting on my desk that is such a pleasure to look through, I will be putting it in to service in the coming weeks, I was very lucky to stumble across a state of the art darkroom being removed from a local place due to not being used, it is literally perfect and includes everything from furniture to equipment! Just finished painting a big room in my cellar that will hold it all and should be installing it in the next fortnight.

    I know you're in the South but if you ever fancy a trip up to the North then you'd be welcome to come and play with the chemicals, it's beautiful up here!

    Mat
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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Thanks for all the kind words and good wishes!

    I think it is only possible on GetDPI to post such"declaration" that I did without it turning in to a full scale war between digital and analog in three posts or less
    This is a site with a very mature population!

    And it has , of course, nothing to do with what is best, it is only about what I have to do to force me to better develop my personal "artistic eye" at this moment.
    And Dough is absolutely right about the development of photography! There has never been any better time to be a photographer than today. And in two years time i am 100% sure that it will even be better!
    But it is of course a hard time to, from this almost bottomless sea of possibilities, select the perfect system just for me.

    But if I find out that I have made a wrong choice, it was actually I who made this choice.
    It is in the end, not the system producer I can blame for my choices, only my self for not doing the proper research!
    I could make a long list of what I not "easily" could use my AFDlll system for.
    But I made that list before I bought the system so there was no bad surprises after I bought into this technology.
    So I am not selling my system because it is bad, but because I have to do some thing else that the system can not handle in terms of film format
    So it is not with any hard feelings I leave this system, It has given me loads of pleasure and results.

    If I in two years time decide to go back into a digital back, I am sure it will be with a technical Camera. And I do know that it is not the best system for sport photography..
    And I do know that if I buy a 80 Mpixel back I will automatically be a member of this group of masochists, regarding lenses, that try to handles this kind of resolution in combination with movement

    Thanks for the invitation Mat!
    It is hard in Sweden to really know what people mean by north and south, unless a place is given in the country as a reference
    But my work often brings me to the "real" north!

    And it is truly the best of times for analog photography!
    If we keep our eye open, we can all the time find amazing deals regarding this kind of equipment!

    Ray
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayhand View Post
    ...
    But it is of course a hard time to, from this almost bottomless sea of possibilities, select the perfect system just for me.

    But if I find out that I have made a wrong choice, it was actually I who made this choice.
    ...
    Isn't it? I have the "perfect system just for me" ... Five times over now:

    - Hasselblad (SWC, 500CM+80+150), and a little pocketable Voigt' Perkeo II.
    - Leica R lenses and Leicaflex SL/Sony A7 bodies to use them on.
    - Olympus E-M1/E-1/E-PL1 and a bunch of outstanding lenses.
    - Polaroid SX-70/Spectra/Land Cameras with a bunch of cool accessories.
    - Leica M lenses and M9, M4-2, CL, GXR bodies to use them on.

    I'm so overstuffed with gear now that there's little new which can whet my appetite. All of what I have already works so well I cannot really justify whatever new stuff appears as being "better" for any practical reason that affects my photography. There's no challenge in buying gear. Any mistakes I have made, I made—no manufacturer's spin or marketing pushed me. The gods know I should sell half (at least) of what I have. If it weighs me down, it will go.

    The challenge is in making photographs, and using them to produce the stories, the books, etc that I find satisfying. I've got several efforts going on and some things are beginning to gel again. That's what makes me happy and keeps me going.

    Onwards is the only direction...

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Super Duper
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Enjoy, just enjoy! I've always loved your work. It's a very specific way of seeing and you have a great eye. I can only imagine just how good your work will be when you are kicking back, relaxing and just having the fun of your life!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    It sounds like you are going away, but there is no need for that. We we will always enjoy your contributions as we always have.

    The pity of this is the apparent need to feel we need to justify what we shoot and with what. Since when has film or any other photographic technology not created compelling images? Personally, I am for interesting pictures, no matter their origin.
    Will

    http://www.hakusancreation.com
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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    I come from a”non-Photographic environment” regarding to art.
    All my artistic friends are painters, musicians’ , writers and so on.
    So for me I have been fostered in an environment where the tools was of almost no importance.
    It was only the result that was of interest.

    So I often describe my self as a builder of pictures, as opposed to being a photographer.
    It is only the result I am interested in, The specific tools I use for a given projects are just means to an end.
    The only problem is that after a lot of different projects, I always end up with a lot of different tools.

    So Godfrey, I will not give any disclosure about the almost pathologichal amount of equipment I have.
    But it is time to cull the herd

    And no, I do not plan to go away from here, there is no better alternative on the web!
    So, as I said before, I will continue to pester you with my photos, but only analog for the coming two years.

    Thank you so much for your kind words Ben!
    I will do my best not to disappoint you.

    Ray
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    Senior Member rayyen's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Ray, congrats to your new move! I'm no bold enough like you to dispose all digital system in one time but I confess I do still in love with my analog system, 4x5, Rollei 6x6 and Leica 135, and once in a while I steal some time to hang out with them during a casual weekend, analog is fun. Good photos depends on passion and effort, digital or analog, are second in my humble opinion. Enjoy shooting, enjoy your time. Looking forward to see more analog works from you :-)
    Ray
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    www.raymondchak.com
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    @OP: Good luck !

    And, if in 2 years you decide to move back over to the dark side, digital (excluding MF) will be 4x as good as it is now, and 1/4 the price - it's a win, win, win situation.
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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayhand View Post

    I have decided to just shoot analog for the coming two years with regards to my landscape photo.

    Wonderful news from an artist I admire; I cannot wait to see your work.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com
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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    F8orburst: Hush, don't reveal my secret plans

    Darr, you do humble me with your kind words!

    Ray

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Ray, I couldn't agree more. I'm not coming from MF digital and I'm not doing landscapes, but for most of my portrait work, film is where I'm going. When I need digital, the Panasonic GH3/4 do everything that I'll need for now and possibly forever. When I need passion, there are so many nice, affordable cameras and so many nice kinds of film, not to speak about formats, available to cater for that. Most of the photos that have made a deep impression on me were made with film. Actually, I can't remember a single digital photo of which I can say that the artistic value touched the deep of my soul. Not because they don't exist, because they probably do, but it does seem like the process around film photography helps photographers give more, express more.

    The infamous Erwin Puts posted a consumerism rant on his FB page a couple of weeks ago. Although I don't always follow his reasoning, I do agree with many of his statements. Digital photography is consumerism by nature. The never ending upgrades and new cameras possibly aren't much worse than the consumption of film and chemicals for traditional photography, at least not from an environmental point of view, but the cultural consumerism is. The ability to take millions of photographs for free doesn't help express whatever message the photographer is trying to convey. I would rather take one photo that tells a story than a million that don't, even if that one photo is technically inferior with more grain and less "realistic" colour.

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Jorgen,

    Um, how you use your digital camera is up to you. Just because you buy one doesn't mean you have to take a bazillion photos every time you pick it up. And just because everyone else might doesn't mean you have to as well.

    I shoot with my digital camera very similarly to how I shoot with my film cameras (except Polaroids, where I shoot a lot less than with anything else). A morning walk usually nets between 15 and 35 exposures, 35mm film or digital.

    I've heard so many of these "film is superior", "film is more emotive", "film is the way to go for real photography" things over the years it's become an annoying old myth. For myth it is.

    I enjoy working with film and I enjoy with digital capture. The end result is as expressive and wonderful from either as I care to make it.

    G

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Godfrey,
    No, I don't need to take a bazillion photos with digital cameras, but on the other hand, if I'm only going to take 12 or 36, film is such a beautiful medium and the slow pace and wait for the films to be processed make the experience larger to me. Also, I do shoot a lot of wasted frames with digital that I would never consider wasting film on. Maybe I lack discipline, but in that regard, I'm not alone.

    When that is said, I'm also rather fed-up with the never ending hunt for more and better technology. For me, it's a distraction, and it brings little new to the table from a creative point of view. As mentioned above, I'm in no way dumping digital, but with m4/3 and the best bodies of that system, I see little reason to strive for more in that area, at least not until something really exiting is brought to the table.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Jorgen,

    Um, how you use your digital camera is up to you. Just because you buy one doesn't mean you have to take a bazillion photos every time you pick it up. And just because everyone else might doesn't mean you have to as well.

    I shoot with my digital camera very similarly to how I shoot with my film cameras (except Polaroids, where I shoot a lot less than with anything else). A morning walk usually nets between 15 and 35 exposures, 35mm film or digital.

    I've heard so many of these "film is superior", "film is more emotive", "film is the way to go for real photography" things over the years it's become an annoying old myth. For myth it is.

    I enjoy working with film and I enjoy with digital capture. The end result is as expressive and wonderful from either as I care to make it.

    G
    I'd just add that film is just ... film. Just another artistic medium. Not better, not inferior, just different and equally valid today.



    (I'm a slut and enjoy them all, be it iPhonography, film, digital, big digital, big film, even bigger film etc)
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Godfrey,
    No, I don't need to take a bazillion photos with digital cameras, but on the other hand, if I'm only going to take 12 or 36, film is such a beautiful medium and the slow pace and wait for the films to be processed make the experience larger to me. Also, I do shoot a lot of wasted frames with digital that I would never consider wasting film on. Maybe I lack discipline, but in that regard, I'm not alone.

    When that is said, I'm also rather fed-up with the never ending hunt for more and better technology. For me, it's a distraction, and it brings little new to the table from a creative point of view. As mentioned above, I'm in no way dumping digital, but with m4/3 and the best bodies of that system, I see little reason to strive for more in that area, at least not until something really exiting is brought to the table.
    They're different. Sometimes I want a film camera for that 12 or 36, sometimes a digital camera. Nothing takes a photo that looks like a Polaroid other than a Polaroid, same for an SWC, and I can't take the pinhole photos I've been enjoying lately with anything other than a Sony A7. I also can't see what I wanted out of my Leica R lenses on anything other than a Leicaflex/Leica R or Sony A7/r.

    I agree with you about the never-ending-hunt for "more and better." It's been a long time since I went for more and better ... My ancient 2003 E-1 is still a wonderful camera. I've bought lots of new things looking for something, but "more and better" wasn't really it. The current top of the line in mFT is indeed wonderful. I think the times are well past the tipping point where simple "more and better" notions of resolution and sensitivity are a diminishing part of why I might get the urge to buy more gear.

    G

  26. #26
    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    As Godfrey said "They're different."

    That what is all about for me!
    Digital has been extremely important for me in my work.
    It has allowed me to really go overboard regarding the number of photos I take to test and understand what can be done in a certain photographic situation.
    Yes, I could have done that also with film, but to a much higher cost and a much longer time ( and No, I do not want to discuss the cost of all my digital equipment compared to film cost ))

    But now I am at a different place and I do ned another discipline and another aesthetics. But I will always be grateful to digital for what it given me.
    Jorgen stand by his m4/3 and I do understand him, I say the same about my Fuji system. I will keep this system for my "snap shot" need.
    It is for my large lanscape photos that I will go 100% analogue.

    I really do not need any new digital system, Honestly (except the Fuji X-Pro2 and the... )
    And I really do not need any new analog sytem, I just need to stand more in the light!

    I have been working with vocational training for more than 20 years in my own company.
    And I am a total sucker for that level of professionalism that is beyond explanation, the tacit knowledge.
    So grab a glas of red or a Talisker/Oban and enjoy a dans of a professional.
    Of what was before photoshop.

    The magic of analog photography - By: Nathalie Lopparelli - YouTube

    It is worth 15 minutes of your life!

    Ray

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayhand View Post
    ..., I just need to stand more in the light!


    Ray
    Yup... me to

    Nice video. I wish there was a lab like that around here. Unfortunately not.

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Yup... me to

    Nice video. I wish there was a lab like that around here. Unfortunately not.
    I used to work for a lab like that ... early 1980s. Most are long gone.

    Personally, I never found much magic in being in the dark swishing chemicals around. It was an "ooh-aaah" experience for me once when I was 7 years old, and after that it was just 'that pain in the butt I have to do to see my photographs'. I mostly shoot film these days for scanning, and then have great fun playing with the images that film records. I'm *much* happier editing photos in the light ...

    Whatever turns you on!

    G

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    Senior Member alajuela's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayhand View Post
    As Godfrey said "They're different."

    That what is all about for me!
    Digital has been extremely important for me in my work.
    It has allowed me to really go overboard regarding the number of photos I take to test and understand what can be done in a certain photographic situation.
    Yes, I could have done that also with film, but to a much higher cost and a much longer time ( and No, I do not want to discuss the cost of all my digital equipment compared to film cost ))

    But now I am at a different place and I do ned another discipline and another aesthetics. But I will always be grateful to digital for what it given me.
    Jorgen stand by his m4/3 and I do understand him, I say the same about my Fuji system. I will keep this system for my "snap shot" need.
    It is for my large lanscape photos that I will go 100% analogue.

    I really do not need any new digital system, Honestly (except the Fuji X-Pro2 and the... )
    And I really do not need any new analog sytem, I just need to stand more in the light!

    I have been working with vocational training for more than 20 years in my own company.
    And I am a total sucker for that level of professionalism that is beyond explanation, the tacit knowledge.
    So grab a glas of red or a Talisker/Oban and enjoy a dans of a professional.
    Of what was before photoshop.

    The magic of analog photography - By: Nathalie Lopparelli - YouTube

    It is worth 15 minutes of your life!

    Ray
    Hi Ray

    Nice video - Thank you

    I think its great you will have a functional and operational darkroom.

    Darkroom is a great place to wander and get lost.

    Wish I could see what you put on your wall

    All the best

    Phil

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I used to work for a lab like that ... early 1980s. Most are long gone.

    Personally, I never found much magic in being in the dark swishing chemicals around. It was an "ooh-aaah" experience for me once when I was 7 years old, and after that it was just 'that pain in the butt I have to do to see my photographs'. I mostly shoot film these days for scanning, and then have great fun playing with the images that film records. I'm *much* happier editing photos in the light ...

    Whatever turns you on!

    G
    If comfort was my first priority when taking photos, I would use the Nokia for photography, sell my other gear and spend the rest of the money on Laphroaig... and possibly a bottle or two of Talisker

    The chances are rather slim that I will do wet printing, now or in the future. I have neither the space nor the time, and the largest bathroom of my apartment is being inhabited by a female who isn't to eager to share the space with smelly chemicals and other stuff (although the number of bottles in that room can compete with most laboratories ). Scanning and digital printing mostly give me the results I'm after anyway, and working on those skills will most probably bear more fruit

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Ray,

    Interesting video, it takes me back to my first B&W printing in the photo labs at UCLA. Later, because I loved the color photos of Ernst Haas, I printed Cibachrome in my basement. No glamor in color printing, no image appearing before your eyes; everything in the dark or sealed processors. I still love a Cibachrome print and if I could produce one on an inkjet I would. I stopped using my 67II when I purchased the 645D. Do I take better pictures ? - Maybe, I take more for sure, but I certainly miss the processed film arriving in the mail. I won't go back to film, but I understand why you might.

    Tom

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    I actually ran a color darkroom for a very long time. When I returned to the States, the cost of chemistry and its disposal made it prohibitive to run. So I went from medium-format film to medium-format digital. What I miss most are the film formats like the square of the 6x12. I know I can crop, but that is not the way I work--I just am so used to frame in the camera.

    And then there are those funky film cameras like the Widelux swing lens panoramic camera. Or the Fujifilm 16-lens "golf" camera.

    If anyone is looking for a medium-format or 4x5 color enlargers, let me know...

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    If anyone is looking for a medium-format or 4x5 color enlargers, let me know...
    "Fortunately", the shipping cost would be prohibitive, and again... available space has been reduced lately

    I need a house
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Ray, that is a brave decision, considering you produce wonderful imagery with what you have and at the same time the cost of entrance to medium/large format film photography is low, why not do both? Although, I can understand that a full commitment to a specific media is not a bad thing, especially when it comes to art.
    I would not stand a chance in my commercial work to go back to film, but I might brush off my old trusty Linhof SuperTechnica 4x5 for old times sake....and load it with velvia sheetfilm. There is no doubt that a 9x12cm transparency is beyond big DBs in terms of 'feel'. I have never shot B&W sheet film (how could I miss that..?)
    Yeah, why not....I think this thread kicked my behind and....
    Guys, any recomendations on 4x5 sheets...???
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  35. #35
    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Thanks Dan for your kind words!

    Yea, why not keep both?
    Well it is one part as you guessed, a question about full commitment.
    And I can completely submerge myself into this because there is no commercial considerations for me to take.



    If there is no digital back to lean on when that ”special” light arrives, then I HAVE to step in and think on a more focused level.
    If I am shooting a grand sunset at the beach, I can no longer take 500 shoots, I will maximum have 10 sheets of 4x5 with me.

    A interesting thing I really learned last augusti during my annual 4-weeks stay at the island, Öland,
    was that I got the best photos when I went to the beach and decided on the best location for the evening shot.
    Then I put up my camera, adjusted everything as I wanted it and then sat on my little 3-legged camping chair and waited.
    And the rest was up to nature, what kind of sunset I would get. And no matter of me running around on the beach al the time,
    testing new compositions could change the outcome of the sunset!

    So I did stay with the selected spot! And I actually selected ONE photo from each evening, no matter how many I did take.
    It was really simple, I just had to pick the best photo! All the other photos was for nothing.
    I could as well just leave my camera in position and put a timer to take photo every 30 seconds and then collect the camera and afterwards try to do some kind of "artistic selection".

    So when you sit and wait maybe around two hours each evening at the beach for one month, you do have some time to think about what you do...
    And I really started to question why I took the absolute majority of the photos I took. And the sad answer is: Just because I could and as a kind of guarantee, and it was just a complete waste of photons.
    So I realized that I just have to wait until the scene in front of me is what I want and then take the photo. And if the scene does not light up in the right way, then I do not take any photo.
    It is as simple as that.

    So I decided to take back the initiative but also the responsibility for my ”Art”. That I had to stay there and be responsible for a choice here and now.
    Suddenly it was a trill ones more to make that choice out of the infinte amount of possibilities.
    To really SEE again.

    And of course it is possible to limit our self to come back with maximum 10 photos on the memory card of the digital camera.
    But the question is if we really do that?
    I dont..

    End of rant

    In a post above I said that I really did not need any more analog camera. But because this is GetDPI, I suspect not one soul here believed me.
    And of course you are right, as always, I do need just ONE more camera.

    I do love square photos, and I also have a soft spot for 6x12. But due to the fact that I do more and more panoramas like 1:3 or 1:4, I was thinking of a 6x17.

    So my question to those of you who have used a 6x17 camera, is it wort the extra size of the camera compared to a dedicated 6x12?
    And the issue with center filter for the lenses, is it really a issue?
    And all the other questions I have forgotten to ask about 6x17???

    Ray
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayhand;

    And I really started to question why I took the absolute majority of the photos I took. And the sad answer is: Just because I could and as a kind of guarantee, and it was just a complete waste of photons.
    So I realized that I just have to wait until the scene in front of me is what I want and then take the photo. And if the scene does not light up in the right way, then I do not take any photo.
    It is as simple as that.

    So I decided to take back the initiative but also the responsibility for my ”Art”. That I had to stay there and be responsible for a choice here and now.
    Suddenly it was a trill ones more to make that choice out of the infinte amount of possibilities.
    To really SEE again.

    And of course it is possible to limit our self to come back with maximum 10 photos on the memory card of the digital camera.
    But the question is if we really do that?
    I dont..

    End of rant

    In a post above I said that I really did not need any more analog camera. But because this is GetDPI, I suspect not one soul here believed me.
    And of course you are right, as always, I do need just ONE more camera.

    I do love square photos, and I also have a soft spot for 6x12. But due to the fact that I do more and more panoramas like 1:3 or 1:4, I was thinking of a 6x17.

    So my question to those of you who have used a 6x17 camera, is it wort the extra size of the camera compared to a dedicated 6x12?
    And the issue with center filter for the lenses, is it really a issue?
    And all the other questions I have forgotten to ask about 6x17???

    Ray
    Ray, you will look back and be glad how much simpler this will make your life to just wait patiently for the 1 shot & not come home with so many unneeded extra images.
    Regarding the 617, I have a Gaoersi 617. It comes with masks to shoot 617, 615 or 612 along with shift function. You might want to look into it. I use that camera the most, then my 4x5 & 5x7 cameras are running 2nd. Given the fact you will be shooting landscapes, the camera is useful in weather/wind conditions that a bellows camera wouldnt manage.
    Center filter- if using 90mm or wider on 617 it's useful. Definitely with slide film, not a requirement if shooting color/B&W negative film. I would use it unless you really need the extra 2 stops.
    If you would like more info on lenses & stuff..shoot me a PM.

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Its going to suck.. and you going to love it Welcome back to analogue..

  38. #38
    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Well Sergei, we all know that you are not a Real Artist if you dont suffer constantly for your art

    Thanks for the info Greg. I will send you a PM with some technical questions.
    I was hoping someone would said that is was just a waste of time, 6x17, and that 6x12 was all I needed...
    The 6X17 cameras are big, they must be as long as a 5x7 camera on the long side i think.
    But that of course takes care of the suffering part...

    I am glad you seems to use your Gaoersi 617. That's confirms my experience with the Chinese made cameras. I are looking at 6x12 or 6x17 cameras by Dayi.
    I have their "technical" 4x5 camera that I am very pleased with. And I choose it exactly because of the problem with bellow on 4x5 field cameras on a windy beach.

    Ray

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Ray, if you want to shoot 6x17cm, just have a look at the 8x10 and stick horizontal splitter in there (so basically you get two 4x10 from single sheet). I used it and its awesome. All the good things of being able to use large view camera without having to deal with highly specialized equipment. 8x10 film is easier to scan(or contact print) than medium format too. Also that gives you ability to shoot landscapes with telephoto lens, which is how they were intended to be shot back in the days, till everyone decided that wide angle is only way to go (which is what you getting with typical 6x17 helical mounts). Just saying.

  40. #40
    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    I do have a Sinar P 8x10 and a "cut up" dark slide for 4x10.
    And I do agree with you about the possibility of using different lenses.
    I was originally a telephoto person, but I have widen my horizons slightly today

    But stormy beaches and such places is the problem.

    Ray

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Ray, if you are interested in a 617 camera, just get a Shenhao 617. Then you can have a "lightweight" kit with a 4x5 and a 617 and they share the same lens!

    (that's what I have but truth be told, I have not taken both cameras out together yet. Hmm...)

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    The Shenhao 617 is a beautiful camera.

    But as a brocken record, I just repeat the same thing
    I can not use a camera with bellow on the windy beach!

    I just got back from a sunset on the beach that I photographed with my two Mamiya 6.
    And I was hanging on to the tripod in the wind so the camera would not blow over..

    So maybe a 6x17 made of concrete

    Ray

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    This is an interesting proposition. In an earlier thread, I was wondering about panoramic film formats and the equipment and surprisingly found that MFD ( IQ280) cropped is currently sufficient enough to give me the print sizes needed ( upto 3m long side ).

    However,

    I have been trialling 35mm film again and some of the bird shots made with velvia and ektar still have the ability to make my jaw drop. In regards to this, I wonder if you have thought of how exactly you are going to digitize your film ?

    Just wondering whether the setup (Lightbox + MFD + macro lens + stitching ) would compare favourably to commercial Flextight X1 / X5 scans.....

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Ray, sorry, missed that post :-)

    OK, I did own a Fotoman 617 for 3 months. It was good for what it does. The camera is big of course, but it's the lenscones that are bigger. I sold it and got the SH PTB617. There is no advantage to the Fotoman except for the stability.

    Like yourself, I have a metal 4x5 for "windy" work, although mine is the Gaoersi, not the Dayi. I have not done much long exposure as I would like, so it has not been used much, but I'd highly recommend Gaoersi if the specs suit you.

    And no, a 612 won't do. If you think you need/want a 617, getting a 612 will just cause you to wonder "ah darn, if only I have that extra 5cm..." besides, you can crop to a 612 with a 4x5 :-O

    It's true that it's much more difficult to sell used film equipments now so it's a gamble.

    For scanning 617 (and 4x5), I just use my V700. It should not have problems with up to 2m long. 3m you may want to drum scan it.

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    For select images, I send my film to Lenny Eiger for drum scanning. He uses an Aztek Premier.
    An 8000 dpi scan will yield a 617 image with roughly 17k x 52k pixels which is 6gb file. Only a few scanners on the market will optically scan up to 8000 dpi tho.
    Remember, not all scanner operators are equal & it takes skill to pull out all of the detail in film.

    Here is a scanner comparison you might find interesting:
    Collaborative Large Format Scanner Comparison
    Last edited by GregMO; 19th August 2014 at 10:40.

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    The reason I is hoping for a 6X12 is the smaller format
    But I do have a Sinar Zoom roll film holder that I use for 6X12 on my 4X5.
    Kludgy, but it works.

    I do my scanning on my Epson V700 with adjustable film holder and anti newton glass.
    That combination let me print 1X1 meter from Mamiya 6 photos.
    So 1x2 meters would be no problem from a 6x12, and from a 6X17..

    I am now thinking about the Plustek 120 scanner that would let me scan up to 6X12.
    It seems to have a bit more resolution compared to my Epson V700.

    I have forbidden my self to think about drum scanners, I really do not need such a apparatus in my life.
    Seems to be some thing that would cost me a lot of time.
    And I have enough of that kind of stuff already!

    But maybe I should try to send some negatives to be scanned on a drum scanner.
    To se for my self how much extra detail I would get?

    Ray

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    I am lucky to have first bought the Epson V700 and soon also the Plustek OpticFilm 120. In my scientific mind I wanted to measure the performance of my scanners so eventually I ordered the USAF 1951 from Silverfast. The results from my measurements are : V700 at wide transparency (8x10)- Useful 2000-2100 dpi, V700 filmholder (35mm-120-4x5) 2400-2600dpi and Plustek Opticfilm useful 3900-4300dpi. But these results are from the sharpest possible film - probably Lith film - not everyday film and certainly no color film. So in the real world I can not get this much detail on my pictures on normal film. To be sure I use 3200dpi on V700 and 4000dpi on the OF120 not to loose any detail, but the real pictorial detail is probably about 2000dpi. Thats the downside of film and scanners. Getting it all on film isn't easy.

  48. #48
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    For 120 scanning, it may be a good idea to check the Braun FS 120 scanner as well. Now, this website seems to be a bit "Plustek unfriendly", but the Braun does get a very positive review:

    Detailed review scanner Braun FS-120 for scanning medium format 120/220 films and 35mm films

    I have tried neither, so I don't know.

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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    A good decision, Ray (IMO).

    I shoot film in 35mm (Nikon), 6x6 (Hasselblad), 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10 formats.

    Permit me to suggest Fuji Neopan Acros black-and-white film.

    It's made in all those formats except 5x7, and only in 100 speed.
    We can't get 8x10 here in the States, but perhaps you can over there.

    Acros is an absolutely amazing film with very fine grain, excellent shadow detail, beautiful gray scale, and wide exposure latitude.
    It's impossible to block up the highlights, particularly when developed in a compensating developer.

    Good luck with your efforts. Please let us see some of them.

    - Leigh
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    Re: Goodbye digital back, Hello analog film (for now)

    Acros is my preferred B&W film, especially for long exposures due to it's almost lack of reciprocity failure and 12 stop DR. That said, Portra 400 is my preferred film, especially in MF or LF, since it has DR that my poor IQ260 can only dream of.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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