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Thread: Lee Big Stopper

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    Senior Member GMB's Avatar
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    Lee Big Stopper

    When I use the Lee Big Stopper (on the Leica S2), it screws up the white balance and colors. I tried to correct it but without success. Colors are always somewhat unnormal.

    Do others have similar experiences and ideas how to deal with this?

    Thanks.
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    Re: Lee Big Stopper


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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    It is IR contamination. Right now I am using Hoya ProND filters that have a Metallic ACCU-ND coating--there are other Hoya ND filters that have a "Pro" designation. I have also moved down to 6-stop ND filter which gives me enough control in all but direct sunlight. And I can see though the viewfinder to compose with a 6-stop filter. The Hoya line goes up to 10-stops. I am finding it easier to control color with this filter.

    Taken with a Hoya ProND 64X (6-stop) filter on a Pentax 645D with probably has the same color filter array on the CCD and Kodak sensors are actually more sensitive in the IR as the green and blue sensor pixels increase in transmittance at those wavelengths:



    You could also see if an IR cut-off filter helps your Big Stopper. I did this with a B+W ND filter, which helped a little, but B+W 10-stop filters are known for a lot of IR contamination.
    Will

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Agreed regarding the big stopper neutrality. IR cut helps - for daytime I'll use the 6 stop Pro Glass ND & big stopper as that has the IR block needed.

    I've recently started using the Formatt IRND filters that fit the LEE holders. There's a not inexpensive Joel Tjintelaar kit with 3, 6, 10 stop filters which is ideal for daytime long exposures. Resin vs glass but they are more neutral.

    Btw, I assume that you shoot a grey card or Passport card as a reference for WB adjustment? That also helps with the LEE particularly but IR block is important too.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    I have used the LEE Little Stopper and found , that all imges have a strong blue color cast , i can't get corrected by LCC . The LCC shot was taken without the stopper filter . WB was set to daylight . Any idea of how can this be corrected .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    I would shoot a colorchecker before the long exposure, that will give you a good start on a grey reference.

    When I go with the 6 stop LEE ( I don't use the 10 stop very often), I am usually shooting water, so I have a "white" point in the water or "grey" point in the rocks that will be around. After applying the LCC, I then try to get a starting point by clicking on a subject in the photo with the WB tool in C1 or on a point on the colorchecker.

    Paul

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Same experience with the Lee, I've since switched to the NISI "F-stopper pro" (available in 6 and 10 stops) with much better results regarding colors and cast.

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quote Originally Posted by Frederic View Post
    Same experience with the Lee, I've since switched to the NISI "F-stopper pro" (available in 6 and 10 stops) with much better results regarding colors and cast.
    I had a quick look to the NISI home page . I will check in more detail tomorrow .
    But what I found is , that they claim : 6 or 10 stops . No color cast .
    Thank you for the hint .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Hi

    An IR cut filter will help

    I had a similar problem (stacking ND filters) and Andrea at 2Filter - put me in touch with Ira Tiffen, Below is what he had to say. Address both Vari ND and Single Filters - Stacked or not.


    Hi, Phil,

    I don't have specific information regarding the IQ 180 and IR bleed. However, for both that camera back and the Canon camera it is likely that when using the stacked grads as you have the results would be better with an IR cut filter on the lens.

    The variable ND filter is comprised of dual polarizers. Polarizers of this type are dyed using iodine, which has attenuation in the far red and infrared that is different than the organic dyes used in the ND attenuator and the ND grad. The polarizers don't absorb much above 750 nanometers, but they do a better job than the dyes below that spectral region. That is why there is a difference in the result between the two filter options.

    I hope this explains the situation and your results to your satisfaction. If we can be of further assistance, please let me know.

    Thank you for your interest in our products.

    Best regards,

    Ira


    AND further

    Hi, Phil,



    Typically, infrared issues are made worse when using denser neutral density filters. This is because the dyes in these filters are not able to absorb light in the far red and infrared region as much as they do through the visible. The extra light transmitted in this region becomes a larger proportion of the overall the more the overall amount of light in the visible region is reduced, as it would be with denser ND filters. That is why we produce our Platinum IRND filters, which incorporate a special dye component that can handle the far red and infrared most effectively. However, this is not available with either our attenuators or our grads.



    You could obtain one of our IRND 0.3's instead of the regular ND 0.3, and it would have the IR absorbing component in it, but it would be only enough to handle the requirements of an ND 0.3, and maybe a bit more. It would not be expected to cover the same range in the infrared as would, say, a True-Cut filter. The True-Cuts come named after the point above which they stop transmitting light, in 680, 720, and 750. The True-Cut 680 starts reflecting light above 680 nanometers, and so is the strongest and most complete elimination of far-red and infrared of the three filters.



    It does come with one caveat - that as the strongest, it also produces the most difference in color from the center to the edge of an image the wider the field of view. This is because these filters are interference coatings on optical glass, which have the property of changing their transmission properties with the incident angle of light. As you turn one in your hand looking through it at different angles, you'll see it subtly change color. When mounted on the lens, there will be a certain difference in the angle of transmitted light between the center of the image, where the light passes almost perpendicular to the filter, and the edge, where there is more of an angle.



    This difference, of course, increases with wider lens angles. While there is no precise rule, in general you should be okay with these above a 50 mm focal length, and may be okay with the True-Cut 750 above 35mm. Testing is recommended before critical shoots.



    I wish that the situation were simpler, but as you know, changing technology, while making some aspects of life today possible, also makes others more complex.



    Please let me know how it goes with you.



    With best wishes for the New Year!

    Ira
    Philip
    www.pg-pg.com
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    Senior Member alajuela's Avatar
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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Hi

    One other bit of information also from Schneider Optics - Which is where Ira is at as VP - really nice guy. .

    This morning we were able to check the IR filters with the camera and have come to the conclusion that the IR 680 #68-121156 should resolve the issue. Please note that as you stack densities the problem grows more evident.

    Hope this helps,

    Thanks

    Phil

    PS - I also have the Big Stopper - but you might like the Heliopan ND3.0 which is 10 stops.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ensity_ND.html

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    I use the Schneider Platinum IRND filters (4x4" size) and really like them. There is still some IR contamination with the 6 stop filter but it is subtle and easy to correct. The 4 stop filter is very neutral. I sometimes combine the two for extra ND filtration and the results are still very very good. Awesome filters.

    I have tried other brand's ND's and the IR contamination can be quite severe with some.

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_R View Post
    I use the Schneider Platinum IRND filters (4x4" size) and really like them. There is still some IR contamination with the 6 stop filter but it is subtle and easy to correct. The 4 stop filter is very neutral. I sometimes combine the two for extra ND filtration and the results are still very very good. Awesome filters.

    I have tried other brand's ND's and the IR contamination can be quite severe with some.
    Presumably these will work with the Lee filter holders ? Or have you bought the Schneider holders as well ?

    Thanks.

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    I searched the net for that BIG/LITTLE stopper issue and found many entries . The issue seems to be more serious with the resin stoppers and less with ND glas filters . But which one is the best ? ? ?
    Also I had a call with HELIOPAN and was told , that a IR cut filter might solve the issue , depending on the digital back and their IR filters in front of the sensor . But also might not bring a solution or only very little .
    It seems , that there will not be a 100% solution for the color cast issue with the 6 stop and 10 stop ND filters . Glas filters will be better , that is for sure .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quote Originally Posted by MILESF View Post
    Presumably these will work with the Lee filter holders ? Or have you bought the Schneider holders as well ?

    Thanks.
    Hi, The holder looks similar to the Lee holder but I think it is modified a bit since I believe the Schneider glass filters are a bit thicker. But the design is identical and the adapter rings for the lens filter threads are the Lee rings. (I have the Wide Angle ones).

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    Senior Member GMB's Avatar
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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Thanks to all for the helpfull comments. Not sure what I will do. May be shoot B&W only.
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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quote Originally Posted by GMB View Post
    . . . . Not sure what I will do. May be shoot B&W only.
    I feel very much the same and think , that the LEE Little Stopper was a total waste of money . There are some brands offering glas ND filters , 100x100 mm
    and they all claim that their ND filters produce either neutral colors or no color shifts . And these filters are rather expensive . Too expensive for more testing when you can't return the filter if the test fails .

    Might be that one and the same ND filter shows different results for PHASE , HB or LEAF backs .

    Does anybody have experience with CFV-39 and CFV-50 backs using 6 or 10 stop ND filters ? ? ?
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Agreed regarding the big stopper neutrality. IR cut helps - for daytime I'll use the 6 stop Pro Glass ND & big stopper as that has the IR block needed.

    I've recently started using the Formatt IRND filters that fit the LEE holders. There's a not inexpensive Joel Tjintelaar kit with 3, 6, 10 stop filters which is ideal for daytime long exposures. Resin vs glass but they are more neutral.

    Btw, I assume that you shoot a grey card or Passport card as a reference for WB adjustment? That also helps with the LEE particularly but IR block is important too.
    I always just convert to B&W with the Big Stopper because of color issues. I have the Formatt Joel Tjintelaar 3,6,10 stop kit that Graham mentioned above. The attached pic is with my Hassy H4D-40 and the 6 stop IRND from the Formatt JT kit. I can post more examples if anyone would like. I've been meaning to do a side by side test with the big stopper and the Formatt 10 stop IRND for the forum but haven't gotten around to it.

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    I use the Big Stopper and have no issues when I use a WhiBal card as a white balance reference. I then process with LCC as usual, but do not use that for white balance...

    Bob

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    I use the Big Stopper and have no issues when I use a WhiBal card as a white balance reference. I then process with LCC as usual, but do not use that for white balance...

    Bob
    Bob, would you please share with us your workflow of taking WhiBal card with Big Stopper on the lens? Same exposure time as the scene you are about to take? Or you have a better suggestion?

    Thanks for sharing.

    Michael
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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Hi Michael,
    Pretty simple: I just hold the WhiBal in front of the lens and expose at the same aperture, shutter speed and focal point as the image. It's of course a blurred image usually with my thumb in it!

    In CaptureOne color tab, I'll click on the grey area with the eyedropper. Pretty basic but seems to work well on both my MFDB and Leica. Of course if I'm in very different light than the subject, this doesn't work well and I'll try different areas of the image to find the color balance I want. For landscapes it's more about what I want to show than 99% accuracy as would be desired in the studio...

    I'm not a pro, but this seems to work very well for me.
    Bob

    Quote Originally Posted by mike6272 View Post
    Bob, would you please share with us your workflow of taking WhiBal card with Big Stopper on the lens? Same exposure time as the scene you are about to take? Or you have a better suggestion?

    Thanks for sharing.

    Michael

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Does anyone know the thickness of the Schneider platinum IRND filters? Are they 2mm thick and will they fit the Lee holder for 4x4 sized filters?

    Thanks
    Paul

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Hi Paul,
    It's 4mm thick. You need to order a pair of Lee 4mm guide from B&H... Hope it helps
    Mark

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Does anyone know the thickness of the Schneider platinum IRND filters? Are they 2mm thick and will they fit the Lee holder for 4x4 sized filters?

    Thanks
    Paul

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Thanks, I was hoping they would be 2mm like the Lee Glass ND filters.

    Paul

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Thanks, I was hoping they would be 2mm like the Lee Glass ND filters.

    Paul
    Having 2mm and 4mm slots would certainly make for complexity and I'm not sure I can get my head around how many adapters I might need to make good use of wide angle lens hood, push on 100mm, standard adapter etc. let alone where to pack them in my bag.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Btw, worth noting that the Schneider filter holder has 4mm slots with plastic friction screws to secure the filters from slipping out under their own weight.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Does the Schneider filter holder mount with the Lee rings? or do you have to purchase a Schneider ring.

    Thanks
    Paul

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Lee rings.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    I would shoot a colorchecker before the long exposure, that will give you a good start on a grey reference.

    When I go with the 6 stop LEE ( I don't use the 10 stop very often), I am usually shooting water, so I have a "white" point in the water or "grey" point in the rocks that will be around. After applying the LCC, I then try to get a starting point by clicking on a subject in the photo with the WB tool in C1 or on a point on the colorchecker.

    Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    I use the Big Stopper and have no issues when I use a WhiBal card as a white balance reference. I then process with LCC as usual, but do not use that for white balance...

    Bob

    Color checker or WhiBal shots might be a partial solution , but are not very comfortable nor practical . I do hate such things .

    I have two HELIOPAN ND screw in filters onsite . ND 0.9 and ND 1.2
    None of them , not even stacked together , produces a blue color cast .
    What I see is almost as neutral as without ND filter . LCC corrects that .

    I was tempted by LEE's easy filter push in procedure . But I changed my mind . As you have to work with ND filters from a tripod anyway ,
    I now prefer the "screw in" and no color cast over the easier push in and get the blue cast , you can't get rid off .
    This might be valid for my CFV-39 and CFV-50 only . I don't know .
    I regard my LEE LITTLE STOPPER as superfluous . .

    Should we have a thread for ND filter images ?
    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    The Lee NH 0.9 glass filter is also excellent. I use it along with the 0.6. Neither of these show any color cast that I can see.

    But as you mentioned the Heilopoan filters are excellent also.

    I prefer the Lee setup since I can use the Lee wide angle hood also.

    Paul

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    I've used the Lee Big Stopper for years with no issues. Perhaps your getting stray light through the eye piece. Try shooting with the VF closed when shooting long exposure times.

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    The Lee NH 0.9 glass filter is also excellent. I use it along with the 0.6. Neither of these show any color cast that I can see.

    But as you mentioned the Heilopoan filters are excellent also.

    I prefer the Lee setup since I can use the Lee wide angle hood also.

    Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    I've used the Lee Big Stopper for years with no issues. Perhaps your getting stray light through the eye piece. Try shooting with the VF closed when shooting long exposure times.
    For my ALPA I have designed and made an adapter to hold the LEE wide angle hood without using the filter thread . So screw in filters are no issue for me , except the inconvenience to screws them on .

    There is no stray light as I use a technical camera with a OVF .
    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Here is a great explanation on how the same filter can perform differently depending on which camera/sensor you use it on.

    AbelCine Expo: Filters for Digital Cinema - YouTube

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Correction is possible in post

    H5D, 50mm HC50 II. Lee Big Stopper.

    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post

    There is no stray light as I use a technical camera with a OVF .


    My comment was for the OP and his S2. Good to know about the Alpa though.

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quentin-

    Always a good composition... Nicely done!

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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Quentin-

    Always a good composition... Nicely done!
    Thanks - I try my best

    This is part of a new series from Cornwall.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Lee Big Stopper

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Correction is possible in post

    H5D, 50mm HC50 II. Lee Big Stopper.
    If it is IR contamination, then water and rocks are easy to correct. Foliage becomes much harder because of its IR response. And that changes with season and time of day.

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