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Thread: Hasselblad V body question

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    Hasselblad V body question

    Howdo all,

    A little background - since I moved from my Contax645/120mm Makro set-up (for macro fieldwork) to 35mm digital I have become disillusioned/dissatisfied with the quality of the images I'm getting. In short all digi' shots lack the 3d effect and tonality that 645 film gave me (for reasons I am now well aware of). While the 35mm images are fine for magazines etc. (good resolution, colour, etc.) I want to get back to that 'wow' factor.

    To this end I'm considering the Hasselblad V system, largely because there are loads around (and the lenses are a lot cheaper than more 'modern' systems as and when I add to it).

    Having not ever owned anything Hasselbladdy (other than a 250mm Super-achromat for my Contax) can I ask some stupid questions?

    My idea is to attach my Schneider 120mm macro-apo-digitar to the Hasselblad. Connecting it to the camera isn't a problem but I would like to know if the camera can be operated with the leaf shutter lens via a PC cable and if not, can the camera be operated like a view camera with the lens operating independently. Please assume that a digital back will ultimately be used but also film in emergencies. I'm guessing a purely mechanical model would be better than a battery dependent one?

    The alternative, of course, is to buy one of the Zeiss 120mm macros but I would rather save myself a few hundred £/$/Euro's if I can.

    What do you all reckon?

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Duff
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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Hi Duff,

    I have the complete V system (except for a couple of odd lenses), shooting film for over 50 years and digital for the past decade.

    The V-series bodies can be pre-released, which brings the mirror up and opens the body curtains.
    The pre-release is the little button sticking down below the wind crank.

    You can then fire an in-the-lens shutter to make the exposure.

    After firing your lens shutter, push the release button on the body to complete the release cycle.
    You then wind the body to return the mirror and cock the magazine release as usual.

    - Leigh

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    If you are looking to transition to MFD on a budget, a Pentax 645Z or even the older 645D would be well worth looking at. They are more integrated and modern cameras than the cheaper and older V system backs and more like the Contax 645 you are used to. Using the V system and an older digital back will be like going back in time for you...not just in the sense that your lenses and exposure will be manual, but in the sense of poor battery life, bad displays, poor ISO performance etc. (I am assuming you would not use this with a current generation MFDB).

    The Pentax 645 also has less expensive lenses and film bodies available if you need them.

    As for your macro apo digitar, as Leigh suggests, you can probably get it to work on the V camera (I have not tried non-hasselblad lenses on my hasselblad), but my concern would be the rear-element and mounting system. The flange to focal distance on the V is 74.9mm, so that would be fine on a 120mm lens as long as the rear element and focusing helical don't get in the way. Pentax 645 is 70.87mm. The advantage it has would be its own focal plane shutter, so all you would need would be stop down metering...no need to worry about syncing.
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Why not get a Contax 645 again? It's what you say you miss, after all. And nearly all the same digital back options are available as for Hasselblad V mount. It's also got one of the shortest flange to focal distances in medium format (64 mm), and a focal plane shutter, which as Stuart points out, are both key to adapting unusual lenses.

    Ray

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Thanks Leigh, Stuart and Ray for the replies. Much appreciated

    Leigh - nice, precise answer! Thanks for confirming. Makes the V body pretty much what I'm looking for. I'll probably go for a 503CW.

    Stuart - not so much looking for MFD on a budget (well, sort of). Just like to use a good lens on different systems if I can - saves space and weight when travelling and of course money. The digital back that I require is one that can also be used on my Plaubel 69D view camera (only has Hasselblad H, V, and Mamiya mounts), so mustn't have microlenses, and would much prefer one with big pixels for the attributes they have. I'm also selling off some high-end gear that should fund all the Hasselblad gear I require. I don't like going back to an older system but I have noticed that sometimes a manufacturer will drop something that is perfect for one's requirements (such as the aforesaid MFDB attributes, and modularity) for something that is commercially more viable. Hasselblad V's and older MF backs tick all the boxes so...

    Yup, the 120mm apo-digitar is one of the very few that can be retro-fitted to another 'reflex' system (I think the 80mm was the only other apo-digitar if I recall). Back-flange is certainly one of the issues but also the width of the rear element - won't fit past the adapter one is using. The 120mm macro will be used on a bellows and either side of 1:1 so back-flange wouldn't be a problem. And yes, looks like it'll be used as you describe

    Ray - yes, I certainly thought about picking up a Contax again. Sadly, prices have gone up on good conditioned kit but the main problems are the rarity of MFDBs in a Contax mount, spare parts are limited and will eventually run out, and (the killer for me) there is no Contax mount for the Plaubel 69D so I can't swap the MFDB between systems. I do miss my Contax though

    Thanks again all.

    Cheers,
    Duff

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Hi,

    I feel something is missed in the discussion. You need to wake up the back before the exposure. The Hasselblad bodies all do this. With a lens shutter you need to use a wake up cable and release the shutter within 5 seconds of waking up. If you push to early you only get a partial image.


    I would use a Planar 120/4 on the Hasselblad, they are dirt cheap.

    Here are two close up images with that lens:

    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...nar_120_macro/

    The raw files here in DNG, but the original IIQ file is embedded and can be extracted using Adobe DNG Converter.

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by Duff photographer View Post
    Howdo all,

    A little background - since I moved from my Contax645/120mm Makro set-up (for macro fieldwork) to 35mm digital I have become disillusioned/dissatisfied with the quality of the images I'm getting. In short all digi' shots lack the 3d effect and tonality that 645 film gave me (for reasons I am now well aware of). While the 35mm images are fine for magazines etc. (good resolution, colour, etc.) I want to get back to that 'wow' factor.

    To this end I'm considering the Hasselblad V system, largely because there are loads around (and the lenses are a lot cheaper than more 'modern' systems as and when I add to it).

    Having not ever owned anything Hasselbladdy (other than a 250mm Super-achromat for my Contax) can I ask some stupid questions?

    My idea is to attach my Schneider 120mm macro-apo-digitar to the Hasselblad. Connecting it to the camera isn't a problem but I would like to know if the camera can be operated with the leaf shutter lens via a PC cable and if not, can the camera be operated like a view camera with the lens operating independently. Please assume that a digital back will ultimately be used but also film in emergencies. I'm guessing a purely mechanical model would be better than a battery dependent one?

    The alternative, of course, is to buy one of the Zeiss 120mm macros but I would rather save myself a few hundred £/$/Euro's if I can.

    What do you all reckon?

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Duff

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Thanks for the heads-up Erik. I'll remember that.

    I'll give my adaptation a go as and when I get the equipment. It won't cost many anything, only time, but if it fails or is too inhibitive then I'll definitely fall back on one of the 120mm macros.

    ...and thanks for the links

    Cheers,
    DP

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    I feel something is missed in the discussion. You need to wake up the back before the exposure. The Hasselblad bodies all do this. With a lens shutter you need to use a wake up cable and release the shutter within 5 seconds of waking up. If you push to early you only get a partial image.


    I would use a Planar 120/4 on the Hasselblad, they are dirt cheap.

    Here are two close up images with that lens:

    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...nar_120_macro/

    The raw files here in DNG, but the original IIQ file is embedded and can be extracted using Adobe DNG Converter.

    Best regards
    Erik
    Last edited by Duff photographer; 7th August 2014 at 06:43.

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    The old S-Planar 120/5.6 actually outperforms the Makro-Planar 120/4 at close-up distances.
    Leica Monochrom, Olympus EM-5, Ricoh GR

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Get a copy of Ernst Wildi "The Hasselblad Manual" preferably the Fifth Edition, that is the last analog only edition. It has every thing that you need to know about Hasselblad V systems. The Sixth is also OK but has the "new" H system also. In each addition, the is a chapter on Hasselblad macro systems.

    Just looked at Amazon and used Fifth editions are available for about $15.00. (10 years ago I paid $50 for a used Fifth and was happy that I found one)

    Steve

    PS: If you turn into a V system gear head there is Richard Nordin's "Hasselblad System Compendium"

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Haven't bought any Hassy stuff for about 5-6 years but this discussion got me somewhat interested again in V system macro. Just ordered a 135mm 5.6 CF Makro in ex cond for about 1/2 the price for similar lens 6 years ago.

    Steve

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Quote Originally Posted by SHV View Post
    Haven't bought any Hassy stuff for about 5-6 years but this discussion got me somewhat interested again in V system macro.
    Just ordered a 135mm 5.6 CF Makro in ex cond for about 1/2 the price for similar lens 6 years ago.
    Do you have the bellows to go with it?

    - Leigh

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Hi,

    I checked the MTF data and it certainly seems to be the case:

    http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/pdf/lds/C120.pdf

    http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/pdf/lds/CFi120.pdf

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by pgmj View Post
    The old S-Planar 120/5.6 actually outperforms the Makro-Planar 120/4 at close-up distances.
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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh View Post
    Do you have the bellows to go with it?

    - Leigh
    It's somewhere around the house, haven't seen it since I moved a few years ago. It's the "newer" automatic bellows (40517).

    Steve

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Quote Originally Posted by pgmj View Post
    The old S-Planar 120/5.6 actually outperforms the Makro-Planar 120/4 at close-up distances.
    Sshhh!


    Quote Originally Posted by SHV View Post
    Get a copy of Ernst Wildi "The Hasselblad Manual" preferably the Fifth Edition, that is the last analog only edition. It has every thing that you need to know about Hasselblad V systems. The Sixth is also OK but has the "new" H system also. In each addition, the is a chapter on Hasselblad macro systems.
    Thanks Steve. I've managed to find both quite cheaply and as you say, the 5th edition is more useful. Thanks.
    Last edited by Duff photographer; 8th August 2014 at 10:55.

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Under the category of FWIW and odd Hasselblad stuff, my 135mm 5.6 Makro arrived today. I have been doing home remodeling for the past 2 years (now phase VIII, IIRC) and because of a lot of dry wall dust and other dirt, the camera gear has been in boxes for a few years. Got out some of the Hassy gear for fun.

    Steve
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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Quote Originally Posted by SHV View Post
    Get a copy of Ernst Wildi "The Hasselblad Manual" preferably the Fifth Edition, that is the last analog only edition. It has every thing that you need to know about Hasselblad V systems. The Sixth is also OK but has the "new" H system also.
    What does the Fifth Edition contain compared to the Third Edition? That's what's on my shelf. :-)

    thx
    G

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    I just got back into a Hassie system for shooting film (also dragged my Drum Scanner out of mothballs). Picked up a cherry 500cm, 50mm and a couple A12 mags at KEH for dirt cheap. I really love the 500 series! One thing to watch out for, as I vaguely recall from my brief time with a 500c and P45+... not all lenses sync well with the wakeup cable and the digi-back. We had all our lenses converted to whatever the more modern flash sync system was and some still didn't sync properly with the back, causing half frames and sometimes no image at all. I would just watch out for older series lenses... FWIW.

    CB

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    What does the Fifth Edition contain compared to the Third Edition? That's what's on my shelf. :-)

    thx
    G
    The "Third" has chapters on Instant film, Copying and Unusual Light Sources, which the Fifth omits. The Fifth has more info on 200 series cameras and some "newer" lenses. Without doing a page by page review to be certain, there doesn't appear to be much practical difference.

    Steve

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Barrett View Post
    I just got back into a Hassie system for shooting film (also dragged my Drum Scanner out of mothballs). Picked up a cherry 500cm, 50mm and a couple A12 mags at KEH for dirt cheap. I really love the 500 series! One thing to watch out for, as I vaguely recall from my brief time with a 500c and P45+... not all lenses sync well with the wakeup cable and the digi-back. We had all our lenses converted to whatever the more modern flash sync system was and some still didn't sync properly with the back, causing half frames and sometimes no image at all. I would just watch out for older series lenses... FWIW.

    CB
    Unless your are a collector, I would pass on "C" lenses and buy high grade CFs. For the "value", most newer Hasselblad lenses, with some exceptions, are quite inexpensive.

    Steve

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Quote Originally Posted by SHV View Post
    The "Third" has chapters on Instant film, Copying and Unusual Light Sources, which the Fifth omits. The Fifth has more info on 200 series cameras and some "newer" lenses. Without doing a page by page review to be certain, there doesn't appear to be much practical difference.

    Steve
    Thanks! Good to know, I'm happy with my "Third" ... :-)

    I just ordered a CF Makro-Planar 120mm f/4 + hood. I was realizing the other day that one of the things holding me back from using the 500CM all that much was that the Planar 80 and Sonnar 150 do not focus all that close: I have to carry close-up lenses, which I find interrupts my shooting to keep switching the close-up lens on and off the camera.

    I suspect that once the 120mm arrives it will be the lens I have on the camera most of the time, just like the 35mm Macro is my most-used lens on the Olympus E-1.

    G

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Quote Originally Posted by pgmj View Post
    The old S-Planar 120/5.6 actually outperforms the Makro-Planar 120/4 at close-up distances.
    I agree with your comment as I went through this 6-7 years ago, owning and using both a CFi/4 and C/5.6...on paper the MTF favours the C close up, agreed, but I ended up selling the C and still use the CFi. Reasons? I couldn't see the difference practically in my slides; the extra stop of light was a bonus and even more so the better depth of field seperation wide open; then there is the capacity for higher flare supression and contrast in strong light from internal flare improvements; lastly, newer improved parts and ergonomics. I think I've made previous comments that Zeiss is on record as stating that (at the time) the 120 makro planar has better colour correction than most makers' APO lenses (trawl photonet - Kornelius)...it makes very beautiful pics in all incarnations and though these days perhaps it may not be the last word in resolution, it is often underrated. Buy with confidence, I reckon.
    Another feather in its cap...I distinctly remember some years ago Leica showcasing its ?S1 with guess which lens on the front? (Someone else may remember the details more accurately).
    Last edited by arionelli; 16th August 2014 at 13:54.

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I just ordered a CF Makro-Planar 120mm f/4 + hood. I was realizing the other day that one of the things holding me back from using the 500CM all that much was that the Planar 80 and Sonnar 150 do not focus all that close: I have to carry close-up lenses, which I find interrupts my shooting to keep switching the close-up lens on and off the camera.

    I suspect that once the 120mm arrives it will be the lens I have on the camera most of the time, just like the 35mm Macro is my most-used lens on the Olympus E-1.
    The CF Makro-Planar 120mm arrived last evening. Looks to be in EXC condition, just a couple of marks from use and a slightly worn front lens cap. I like the ergonomics and feel ... Yes, this will likely be my go-to lens for the 500CM.

    I'll have a chance to test it out this weekend—looking forward to it.

    G

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Okay, you guys (particularly Steve) have prodded me to finally get one of these lenses, after "thinking about it" for a few decades. It's a used CFE 120 Makro-Planar.

    Here are my first tripod-mounted images. Hasselblad CW, Phase One IQ-160, Hasselblad automatic bellows extension. Shutter release by cable after locking up the mirror. ISO 50, daylight.

    There are two images. One each made with and without the extension. The blue outline area on the full images represent accompanying cropped images.

    Raw images were initially and primarily processed with Capture One, outputting to 25" x 18.7" TIFs, followed by Photoshop for minor tweaks, cropping, sizing, converting, etc.

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Quote Originally Posted by schuster View Post
    ... outputting to 25" x 18.7" TIFs
    Digital images are dimensioned in pixels, not inches.

    The physical size can be whatever you want it to be, from postage stamp to billboard, based on your choice of pixels per inch.

    - Leigh

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Quote Originally Posted by SHV View Post
    ... my 135mm 5.6 Makro arrived today
    I'm curious to see examples of pictures with it, is that possible?

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    I had a few moments to do a few snaps with the Makro-Planar 120mm yesterday using the Polaroid back and Fuji FP-100c. What a lovely lens! Very pleased with it. It's a bit bulky but that's nothing new for macro lenses.

    I'll load up an A12 this week ... Maybe I'll even shoot some color film. :-)

    G

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Quote Originally Posted by Hasselboy View Post
    I'm curious to see examples of pictures with it, is that possible?
    I'm not sure what would be useful for evaluation of the 135mm. The only digital back that I have is a CFV 16 so that resolution is unlikely to evaluate the 135. With that said, I've done a few "snap shots" using the 135mm with Hasselblad automatic bellows connected to a Nikon 800E. First is a random shot of bookcase using flash and max bellows; 2nd is a flower at max extension and two crops.

    Steve

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    Maybe this might be more informative...same set up with 264mm extension...Starrett machinist rule....and crop

    Steve

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    Re: Hasselblad V body question

    A few more examples of my new (used) 120mm Makro-Planar on the Hasselblad CW with IQ-160 back. Window daylight, ISO 50. The close-ups of the succulent plant and eggplant are cropped from the full images. The full image eggplant (for print) is 25"w x 18.5"h @ 360ppi. The full image of the succulent (for print) is 22"w x 25"h @ 360ppi.

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