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Thread: Leica S replacement at Photokina

  1. #51
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    It's a spam account. Reported to the mods.

    /edit

    Double checked - yup, definitely a spammer. Probably a bot - automatically picking up phrases already posted in thread, and then reposting with a smiley.

    Best keep an eye on new accounts because there's rarely just one of them active at the same time.

  2. #52
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Finally, there's an invitation to an event floating around. Leica will do a presentation of new products on september 16, 9 a.m. central european time.

    All you need to know about the new products Leica is rumored to introduce at Photokina | Leica News & Rumors
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Oooh, first teaser

    Template

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    For those who were still in the doubt, Leica officially communicated to the press today that a new S body will be announced at PK (pro press announcement, no details)
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  5. #55
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Two more days, eh? I'd love to see an entry level S body, even if it's just the old S with a few firmware tweaks continued in parallel with the new body. I'm a technical camera user primarily, so some wide and normal FOV tilt-shift options would really convince me to ante-up once and for all. Otherwise, I'm pretty committed to going the Blad or Phase back route. Still, I loved using the S when I demoed it. Beautiful files, too! In short, could be an exciting Photokina!

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    I'd love to see an entry level S body, even if it's just the old S with a few firmware tweaks continued in parallel with the new body.
    Seems like that is precisely what's going to be announced:

    *** New from Leica ***: Leica Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    20,000 AUD = 18,000 USD?
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgio View Post
    20,000 AUD = 18,000 USD?
    Maybe... they also have to pay the upside-down tax.

    Doing the re-packaged "old but new" thing does seem likely, since they're already trying to copy Apple's style, may as well do the "last-year's product is our entry level" thing too.

    If 4K is actually a feature only for this new camera, I sure do hope they don't half-аss it and add stuff that would make it worth it, like:
    - no line-skipping
    - at least 10-bit 200Mbps Long-GOP internal recording
    - color profiles, including a flat profile for maximum dynamic range
    - audio in/out
    - zebras and aspect ratio masking
    - clean monitor/recording output

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina


  10. #60
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Mate, that's a bloody hard sell at $25K USD! Same pixel count as older model? Epic fail in my book. I know people disagree with me here, but that's pretty pathetic in light of the market segment and competition. Live view and focus peaking are great though. 4K video at 60 frames per second is pretty cool, too. Credit where credit's due, for sure. Personally, I'd be just as happy with the type 006.
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  11. #61
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    37.5 MP Cmos 45x30 mm sensor.
    Iso 200 to 6400
    125s longest exposure
    3.5 fps

    Looks like a minimal CCD to Cmos transition.
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  12. #62
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Did you see the "new" Leica S-E? Why do Leica insist on "uglifying" their lower tier cameras? Why green with a silver shutter dial? I'm reaching for a spew bucket!

  13. #63
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    On reflection of the new Phase announcements, the Leica offerings are positively perfect.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Shame the 4K video isn't off the full sensor.

    That would have been a game changer.
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Did you see the "new" Leica S-E? Why do Leica insist on "uglifying" their lower tier cameras? Why green with a silver shutter dial? I'm reaching for a spew bucket!
    ?
    Based on B&H the Leica S-E is the current S-006 with the same design
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  16. #66
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    BTW, the new S looks different from the - old - pics on B&H.

    Leicas Topmodell: Die neue S (Typ 007) | photoscala

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina


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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    BTW, the new S looks different from the - old - pics on B&H.

    Leicas Topmodell: Die neue S (Typ 007) | photoscala
    Yes, odd looking shutter dial eh?

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Indeed, but I like the minimalistic approach. The less clutter on the body, the better for me. Keeps my eyes relaxed :-)

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    S-E rhymes with Ugggggly. Still USB-2

    S Type 007 @ $26K body only expected. At least it is USB-3. IQ will be the determining factor. Don't care about video.

    My S2P is feeling very secure right now

    I'll put any budget into lenses.

    - Marc
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  22. #72
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    37.5mp is disappointing.. But higher ISO,wifi and live View with 3.5fps are nice..

    USB 3 is welcome but a max shutter speed of 125sec from CMOS seems ridiculous.

    I'll be keeping my 006

    Rob
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  23. #73
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    I hard core want a 006 now.
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Always strange that you have to go to a different website than Leica's to get specifications on a camera, why don't they ever put those up in a normal way. It's okay that you don't want to put the megapixel count in the little stories, but it should be on there somewhere.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by JeRuFo View Post
    Always strange that you have to go to a different website than Leica's to get specifications on a camera, why don't they ever put those up in a normal way. It's okay that you don't want to put the megapixel count in the little stories, but it should be on there somewhere.
    You can download the technical data on the Leica official website.
    They contain all needed tech details.

    http://uk.leica-camera.com/Photograp...-S-E/Downloads
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    37.5mp is disappointing.. But higher ISO,wifi and live View with 3.5fps are nice..

    USB 3 is welcome but a max shutter speed of 125sec from CMOS seems ridiculous.

    I'll be keeping my 006

    Rob
    What do you need more pixels for?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    I hard core want a 006 now.
    Why?

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by .:Aleph:. View Post
    What do you need more pixels for?



    Why?
    Larger printing and the lenses can handle it would be my guess...
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    How big a print can Leica handle and how big a print do you need?

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Peter Karbe said the Lenses can resolve 2um sensors,so they are a long way from being tested by this sensor.

    I was hoping to see the 5.3um pixel used in Sony's new Exmor sensor which would have given close to 50mp!
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    I guess they use the exact same CMOS sensor technology down to the pixel level as in the Leica M. Multiplying 24 megapixels with the larger image area you end up with 37.5 megapixels. So if interested in raw sensor performance per pixel it's probably identical to that of the Leica M.

    Making a smaller pixel usually means a whole new manufacturing process so it's a much bigger deal. Going to as small pixels as Sony's sensor would probably also make it more evident than Sony still is in a class of their own concerning raw sensor performance.
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    Peter Karbe said the Lenses can resolve 2um sensors,so they are a long way from being tested by this sensor.

    I was hoping to see the 5.3um pixel used in Sony's new Exmor sensor which would have given close to 50mp!
    I hope it has a ton of dynamic range at least, that's one thing keeping the resolution low is good for, right? Strange that the base ISO is 200 though.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    I hope it has a ton of dynamic range at least, that's one thing keeping the resolution low is good for, right? Strange that the base ISO is 200 though.
    Same as Leica M typ 240. Same pixel size, same base ISO, even more strongly suggests that it's the exact same sensor technology, just a larger chip size. So if you want a preview on the performance, look at images produced by the M.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Same as Leica M typ 240. Same pixel size, same base ISO, even more strongly suggests that it's the exact same sensor technology, just a larger chip size. So if you want a preview on the performance, look at images produced by the M.
    Sounds like they are just leveraging the tech from the 240. No surprise, I guessed this when the 240 came out.
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  34. #84
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    I hope it has a ton of dynamic range at least, that's one thing keeping the resolution low is good for, right? Strange that the base ISO is 200 though.
    Leica claim 13 stops.. I didn't know the base was 200,the range is 100-6400

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Guy, did you talk about this before?

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    But with the Maestro II which may help?

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by .:Aleph:. View Post
    Guy, did you talk about this before?
    Yes I did , I knew once they jumped over to CMOS with that company , forget the name now that they would bring the as up to the CMOS sensor. It's just a matter of making the sensor bigger( no small feat) but what happens for Leica is they get better pricing on quantity now between the 2 sizes but they don't have to do A ton of R&D on a new sensor. This makes perfect business sense on several levels.

    Fact is folks all of this is basically based on the sensor tech and how far they can go with the existing technology. We are almost if not at the end of that rope right now with the current sensor tech for CCD and CMOS . The only way to get away from it is something completely new for sensor tech.

    We are not there yet. I'm glad to see Leica take advantage of the 240 and move the S further . Its a great system and from its birth although took a long time it's growing. This may not be the unit for current users but it maybe for new users. Leicas goal obviously would be getting new users and gain market share.
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Yes I did , I knew once they jumped over to CMOS with that company , forget the name now that they would bring the as up to the CMOS sensor. It's just a matter of making the sensor bigger( no small feat) but what happens for Leica is they get better pricing on quantity now between the 2 sizes but they don't have to do A ton of R&D on a new sensor. This makes perfect business sense on several levels.

    Fact is folks all of this is basically based on the sensor tech and how far they can go with the existing technology. We are almost if not at the end of that rope right now with the current sensor tech for CCD and CMOS . The only way to get away from it is something completely new for sensor tech.

    We are not there yet. I'm glad to see Leica take advantage of the 240 and move the S further . Its a great system and from its birth although took a long time it's growing. This may not be the unit for current users but it maybe for new users. Leicas goal obviously would be getting new users and gain market share.
    Guy,Leica say this sensor is 16bit,whether this is just marketing I don't know,the debate on the benefits of 16bits is never ending,personally I think it makes a difference.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Not sure what to make of this. Since I got the S2, I had hoped that Leica would make it more DSLR like by increasing fps, auto-focus speed for moving objects, and better high ISO performance, without giving up the benefits of the current sensor and without adding (in view unnecessary) bells and whistles such as video. I skipped the S 006 because the improvements were nice to have but not worth the extra .

    The S 007 brings some of the improvements I longed for but changes the sensor and adds expensive video. I really would like to see how the new sensor performs and hot it affects the look of the S2 files. (I did not get the M 240 but kept with the M9 + MM). And the new S 006-E changes the look (for the worse) but otherwise brings nothing new (other then likely to depress prices for used S2s even further).

    The good news is that Leica states the S 007 will be available in the second quarter of 2015 (which likely means it will hit the shelves in meaningful quantities for Christmas 2015 ) so there will be plenty of time to think about this. In the meantime, I think I'll get the 100 summircon .
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    Guy,Leica say this sensor is 16bit,whether this is just marketing I don't know,the debate on the benefits of 16bits is never ending,personally I think it makes a difference.
    Sounds like marketing a bit as we know from internet fora that the last 2 bits mean nothing. Not sure what to make of that but when I shot Phase backs they have more tonal range than anything else I shot and when I tested the original S to the p40 I could see that difference in tone. But at the time the P40 had better DR too. So hard to say as I am not a scientist. I do have a decent eye though
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    all the sudden the leica s2 makes a lot of sense. they are selling cheap on ebay and u can get s lens (none cs) also very cheap. u can put together a nice system for very little.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    So, RVB, why is it disappointing?



    Quote Originally Posted by msadat View Post
    all the sudden the leica s2 makes a lot of sense. they are selling cheap on ebay and u can get s lens (none cs) also very cheap. u can put together a nice system for very little.
    Why?

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by msadat View Post
    all the sudden the leica s2 makes a lot of sense. they are selling cheap on ebay and u can get s lens (none cs) also very cheap. u can put together a nice system for very little.
    Especially when additionally you have Hasselblad and/or Contax lenses.

    I quite honestly don't see Leica attracting many new users with the CMOS Leica S.

    Neither do I see a lot of existing S2/S users upgrade...

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    Guy,Leica say this sensor is 16bit,whether this is just marketing I don't know,the debate on the benefits of 16bits is never ending,personally I think it makes a difference.
    The sensor is not 16-bit. There are no 16-bit cameras in the consumer market--so no one knows if it makes a difference. It is marketing and not really honest marketing. And with a 13-bit DR (if it were a 16-bit sensor it should have much more than 13-bits of DR), it seems to be a bit behind.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    The sensor is not 16-bit. There are no 16-bit cameras in the consumer market--so no one knows if it makes a difference. It is marketing and not really honest marketing. And with a 13-bit DR (if it were a 16-bit sensor it should have much more than 13-bits of DR), it seems to be a bit behind.
    Will,marketing sounds about right as Hasselblad claim the exmor has 16bits and phase claim the same sensor has 14 bits...Pentax also list it as 14bits

    One thing I have seen is that the Hasselblad H4D-50 I had (now sold as I went into the S system) and a friends IQ280 do have better tonal graduation but I guess this could be attributed to the larger sensor.

    Rob

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    Will,marketing sounds about right as Hasselblad claim the exmor has 16bits and phase claim the same sensor has 14 bits...Pentax also list it as 14bits

    One thing I have seen is that the Hasselblad H4D-50 I had (now sold as I went into the S system) and a friends IQ280 do have better tonal graduation but I guess this could be attributed to the larger sensor.

    Rob
    Rob, you are right, there are other factors than bit depth that result in those smooth looking images we enjoy. It is a pity that the camera companies are not really shooting straight, no pun intended.
    Will

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    My Mercedes Sprinter Van speedometer suggests it can do 200 km/h ... Still, I do't feel that Mercedes are not really shooting straight. Some MF camera makers choose and advertise with a 16 bit pipeline where the files only need 14 bit, nothing new. Redundancy is good, IMHO.
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    People complain about the 125 s exposure. How much longer would be preferable? 60 minutes, like the IQ250 and IQ260?

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by .:Aleph:. View Post
    People complain about the 125 s exposure. How much longer would be preferable? 60 minutes, like the IQ250 and IQ260?
    This is impressive from hasselblad..

    "Longest exposure time: The longest shutter speed is now 34 minutes with no extra black exposure necessary. "

    H5D-50c with Wi-Fi

    Rob
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    By the way, the new firmware for the S-006 is available (2.4.0.0), no new firmware for the S2 so far.
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