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Thread: Leica S replacement at Photokina

  1. #101
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Aleph -- people do actually max out the cameras they are using and rightfully hope for better performance in those aspects.
    I have a show up here at the National Museum where one of the photos is a slight crop from full size, printed at 1mX1.5m and the exposure was 32 seconds at f/5.6. The S2 tends to add noise and dead pixels at 125s, and while I used it for some of the images in this series, they would not have been printable to the best quality in the show.

    Likewise, the resolution of the S2 is 120dpi at 1mX1.5m, which while very good quality from a bit back, is still less than half the possible resolution of the printer I use. More resolution and better long exposure performance are very important in my work, even if they might not be in everyone's. As others said, the lenses are more than capable of resolving more detail (just look at s2 files at 200% and you can tell how the lenses are outresolving the sensor).

    I realize that I am probably in a minority using this camera mostly for landscape and art reproduction, but updating the resolution seems to have been something that most S users probably expected. 37.5mp was a great deal when the S2 came out, but I believe it is probably now the lowest resolution camera of all current production medium format cameras, while just being barely more than the best 35mm. Seeing how much more these 35mm cameras offer in terms of ISO and video performance, I am personally a bit baffled as to why Leica decided to try to do half-heartedly what 35mm does well, while ignoring the opportunity to blow 35mm out of the water with what it does best -- superior image quality.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Exactly, Stuart.
    It seems I use my cameras and make prints at similar sizes to you.
    This is an unfortunate announcement, IMHO.
    TJV

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Thank you, Rob, and thank you, Stuart!

    I understand that. I just wanted someone to say it.

    Rob still hasn't stated what resolution he needs and what for.

    TJV hasn't said why is the new Leica bad, but he loves the older one, even if its images will be worse for his one meter by one meter prints.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by .:Aleph:. View Post
    Thank you, Rob, and thank you, Stuart!

    I understand that. I just wanted someone to say it.
    Why? Do we need to justify our purchases?

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Why? Do we need to justify our purchases?
    Well Will sort of. I like to think of it as did we make a smart choice and sometimes reading other users comments do help justify things to yourself. That part I do understand. I know sometimes I may buy something and it was a stretch in one way or another to go for it. Nice to feel comfortable about things and more important not stress about things. I'm a big actually huge advocate of not stressing out. I know for a fact it had not helped my wife and her health. So anything we can do not to stress is a good thing.
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    The interesting thing to me about this announcement is where does the M go from here? When your Medium Format camera is 37.5 MPs albeit very nice at 6um, the M doesn't have much room to work with. Especially when they released the LEICA APO-SUMMICRON-M 50mm f/2 ASPH and hinted at a future in higher resolution M cameras. Time will tell.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Isn't it obvious? I can pick up a used, low milage S2 for under a third of the price of the new 007. I've been offered a brand new 006 for about half the price of a new 007. Why pay a ton of money for features I'll never need, being 4K video and high ISO (not saying that's not important to some people, just that I personally don't need it.) Live View is a very welcome bonus, but not a necessity for how I work. On top of all this, I'm not overly impressed with the colour coming out of the M240 compared to the M9, so don't imagine I'd love the colours of the new 007. They're not bad and can be tweaked in post, but if the old model gets you closer and quicker...

    Quote Originally Posted by .:Aleph:. View Post
    Thank you, Rob, and thank you, Stuart!

    I understand that. I just wanted someone to say it.

    Rob still hasn't stated what resolution he needs and what for.

    TJV hasn't said why is the new Leica bad, but he loves the older one, even if its images will be worse for his one meter by one meter prints.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by .:Aleph:. View Post
    Thank you, Rob, and thank you, Stuart!

    I understand that. I just wanted someone to say it.

    Rob still hasn't stated what resolution he needs and what for.

    TJV hasn't said why is the new Leica bad, but he loves the older one, even if its images will be worse for his one meter by one meter prints.
    I don't think most think the new S Type 007 is "bad" but more of an incremental "upgrade" with features that many don't want. Then there are the feature some wanted that aren't included like higher resolution in the 45-60MP range. It seems Leica took a "Canon-like" upgrade approach with this camera where it pertains to resolution.

    I could see a lot of people who have S Type 006 passing on this iteration unless they own two newer Type 006 bodies and want to switch one to Type for the high ISO and faster shooting rate abilities. There's also the elephant in the room of will this CMOSIS MF sensor alienate the MF CCD crowd the way the M240 did for those that love the M8/M9/M-E look more. It seems the Sony MF CMOS sensor still gives an extremely pleasing look but that's no surprise seeing the look the A7 series provides.It could be that the CMOSIS does better in this iteration but time will tell next summer once a good number of cameras get into the hands of photographers.
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    I think Leica originally targeted the S series camera at a specific audience and have remained somewhat true to that specialty positioning. Leica is not one to wholesale cater to the ever dissatisfied whims of the marketplace … if it did, the M rangefinder camera would have evaporated long ago. One need only read what the general photo community thinks a Leica M should be to get a glimpse of what the M would be today if they had their way.

    That others have adopted the S platform to applications beyond Leica's original intent doesn't necessarily mean they will suddenly go outside their more targeted S approach. If they do, it'll be a different camera in theory and in use.

    Frankly, I'm the target. I use lighting a lot, and preferred V and H all leaf shutter lens systems until the S came along (that the S is also a focal plane camera makes it even more useful); Shoot tethered often so feel less need for Live-View than others do; Rarely print beyond "the equivalent" of 30" X 40"; Shoot almost 95% people photography, Handhold as much as use a tripod or monopod, Have a subjective preference for CCD rendering (which Leica seems to recognize with the ME and S-E models) … and then there are the S lenses.

    There is a certain aesthetic to the S system results which I've come to like over anything else I've had the pleasure of working with. I'll soldier on with my S2P because it delivers what I want. Leica still gets my patronage because they make new lenses I will eventually add. If and when a S camera comes out that I feel will keep the aesthetic I like and adds something else I need, then I'll consider it.

    Wouldn't mind adding a S type 006 when the used price levels off.

    Just a long time users perspective.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    I am one who took the S system beyond whom Leica designed the system for. If you look at Leica publications for the S, you will see the S League focusing on fashion photography. I use the S for landscape and panoramic photography. I stitch images or crop images to make panoramic images. Panoramic images have an aspect beyond 2:1. For my purposes, the S (I have an S2) fits perfectly. It is easy to use outdoors as it is weather sealed. I can use the S handheld. The lenses are second to none. I just finished a show of panoramic images of Los Angeles at the Leica Gallery in Los Angeles.

    The S system has given the opportunity to make some incredible family photos.

    As for the new system, I am still undecided. I do know that the 007 is designed to have a faster buffer for rapid shooting. I do not know whether I need CMOS or higher ISO, but it could be a tool to expand what I would like to do. The S-E is now at the same price as the 006 with the trade in. So there is now a choice whether you want CCD or CMOS.

    All I know is that the S2 has allowed my to take my photography much further than I have with any other camera system.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Disclaimer: I shoot landscape, urban decay, abstracts and often make
    40x60 inch prints. So as mentioned above, I am probably not the pro
    that Leica is targeting (or even cares about). I originally chose the
    S2 because of the lenses, and do enjoy the simplicity of the design and
    interface.

    I am terribly disappointed in the "new S". I feel that video, especially 4K
    needs a dedicated video camera, and that trying to produce professional
    level video on a still camera is a bad compromise. Furthermore, its
    presence only complicates menus and controls.

    What I need is more resolution, which Leica has decided not to provide.
    A higher ISO can be useful, and I wouldn't mind having it, but it isn't
    sufficient to justify the cost of a trade.

    The "new S" does not improve the resolution of the LCD which remains
    below many consumer 35mm cameras. They did not articulate the
    LCD making its use for live view difficult outdoors. They didn't improve
    the color space for the LCD.

    The "new S" didn't add sensor cleaning (which nearly every consumer
    camera now has).

    It remains to be seen if Leica can retain the "look" of the CCD in CMOS.

    I bought my S2 for the lenses, and the lenses are remarkable. But
    it appears that the camera per se is falling further behind the industry
    even as its price continues to increase substantially. (Does this remind
    anyone of Phase?)

    I wonder how good the Pentax lenses are? Or, perhaps the Zeiss Otis
    lenses on the 810 or the A7R. To be even asking these questions, to
    be even considering these alternatives, is disturbing.

    I know the "draw" of Zeiss is not the same
    as the Leica, and as I stated, it is the character of the Leica lenses
    that I admire and desire. BUT, there comes a point (as Stuart mentioned
    above) when your market demands one thing and the camera cannot
    adequately deliver.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    I am pretty excited about the possibilities of this camera and it's future generations. I shoot both stills and video, having one camera to do both at the high end would be fantastic. Obviously, we'll have to see the quality of stills and the video form this new sensor before an accurate judgement can be made. I haven't been able to do mud research, but my guess is that the sensor they are using is the largest megapixel they can use and still get HD on the full frame and 4K on the S35 size out of the sensor. At least they are pushing new boundaries, unlike the very underwhelming Canon 7D II. (I know they are in two different stratosphere's in terms of clientele) But just look at what they've done with being able to use Hassy & Contax lenses on the S2. I'm sure if enough people tell them that they want a 50+ mp camera, they will make one.

    Plus, it looks like the batmobile had a baby camera... #drouling
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Josh, I really like the positive tone in your post, we need more of that, else we'll all end up in CCC ...

    Camera Crisis Center Prepares for Fall Camera Introductions | New Camera News

    As for the video possibilities of this new S, the more I read about it, the less I believe this is going to be a serious tool for digital cinema/video, other than the casual BTS video's of fashion shootings, like these here:

    S-League

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Seems that nobody could come after Desmond Llewelyn ....

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    I might be less than impressed by this new model and the "uglified" S-E, but I really, really like the S system. Here's hoping people see logic where I don't.

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Agreed! I still think this camera is among the best available, certainly for the way I work. I was just disappointed that it changed in a way that is more or less a side-grade for me, rather than an upgrade. At the prices asked for the full body, a side-grade is not really in the cards for me...I need a truly large advance to get me to spend that much money.
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Perhaps this is not such a bad move from Leica. Their stuff is worth major $$$ but keeps its value better than your bread and butter DSLRs. Probably (partly at least) because your gear doesn't become obsolete in 2 years. That's good for those who "invested" in Leica. Of course, not so good to get bleeding edge gear.
    Just a thought...

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    That's good for those who "invested" in Leica.
    "If you sleep, with the Queen, if command, the Universe"

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    From initial reviews, live view implementation seems very good. Other feature upgrades like DNG+JPG to BOTH cards simultaneously is also great news. New AF speed and accuracy seems improved, too. Great that that is also available as a firmware update to 006 owners.
    David F. says that this sensor might be based on one in the M240, but the new processing engine has improved noise performance. Perhaps it will also improve colour? Fingers crossed.

    So, all in all, the only thing I'm not impressed with is the pixel count.
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    From initial reviews, live view implementation seems very good. Other feature upgrades like DNG+JPG to BOTH cards simultaneously is also great news. New AF speed and accuracy seems improved, too. Great that that is also available as a firmware update to 006 owners.
    David F. says that this sensor might be based on one in the M240, but the new processing engine has improved noise performance. Perhaps it will also improve colour? Fingers crossed.

    So, all in all, the only thing I'm not impressed with is the pixel count.
    I would like to think they might extend the long exposure time in a later firmware update..
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    David F. says that this sensor might be based on one in the M240, but the new processing engine has improved noise performance. Perhaps it will also improve colour? Fingers crossed.
    Furthermore, I just read the LFI article about the new S, and they say the S sensor is based on the M240 sensor, but newly developed with the experience from the M240. So fingers crossed, indeed ...
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Depth of field indication is also very nice, live view with focus peaking, AF point & spot meter anywhere also very cool.
    3,5i/s + better iso than the M, this 007 starts growing on me....
    But as you said, color separation & rendering remain to be checked.
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Yes, max long exposure time currently would be a problem for me, too. Hasselblad just did a good job with their 50c update and getting rid of the need for a dark frame...

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    I was thinking today that people have been saying that the S system lens line up is "complete". For my purposes, this is probably true. But don't others desire something like a 90–250mm zoom, or longer primes in the area of 200 - 300mm?
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    I was thinking today that people have been saying that the S system lens line up is "complete". For my purposes, this is probably true. But don't others desire something like a 90–250mm zoom, or longer primes in the area of 200 - 300mm?
    And a wide TS lens.. a 30 or 35..

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Haha, you read my mind!!! I can't imagine better lenses to add than a series of tilt-shifts, especially now the S has live view.
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    I was also a bit shocked by what Leica suggested to us S users. To little, to late.

    On the other hand:

    For a major improvement of resolution, we should have seen something upwards from 60 mb, which makes the handling of the files slow and heavy, even with powerfull hardware. So why not stick at the current 37 mp?

    Added higher ISO would add much more versatility to the System. I have often situations, where I run out of light, especially with longer lenses. So a CMOS is not bad per se. I'm just a bit disapointed about the limit of 6400 ISO, which sounds a bit conservative. But we have to see results to judge this.

    My biggest concern is the price. I was hoping for something a bit more democratic, so it would be possible to add the new camera while keeping the old one as backup. But at the new price, I think I will either look for a second used one, or wait till prices drop in some years.

    For me the point is the following: I actually use the Sony A7r as backup/walkaround camera, and with the 55/1.8 and at higher ISO it is so good, that I don't miss anything else. A high resolution/high ISO camera would have given me some sleepless nights, but actually I'm very fine as it is.
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by stephan_w View Post
    I was also a bit shocked by what Leica suggested to us S users. To little, to late.

    On the other hand:

    For a major improvement of resolution, we should have seen something upwards from 60 mb, which makes the handling of the files slow and heavy, even with powerfull hardware. So why not stick at the current 37 mp?

    Added higher ISO would add much more versatility to the System. I have often situations, where I run out of light, especially with longer lenses. So a CMOS is not bad per se. I'm just a bit disapointed about the limit of 6400 ISO, which sounds a bit conservative. But we have to see results to judge this.

    My biggest concern is the price. I was hoping for something a bit more democratic, so it would be possible to add the new camera while keeping the old one as backup. But at the new price, I think I will either look for a second used one, or wait till prices drop in some years.

    For me the point is the following: I actually use the Sony A7r as backup/walkaround camera, and with the 55/1.8 and at higher ISO it is so good, that I don't miss anything else. A high resolution/high ISO camera would have given me some sleepless nights, but actually I'm very fine as it is.
    I agree with you, and I say that from the perspective of moving "down res" from a Hasselblad H4D-60.

    I was using the S2P and H4D/60 concurrently for a few years, and used the Hasselblad less and less as my work demands changed. I found that the 60 meg FF-645 was less useful for many projects that the S2 handled just fine, including paying product table-top assignments that I did with the 60 meg back just because I had it, not because I needed it.

    I recently picked up a new S(006) for half the price of the new CMOS S camera which I'm sure will be fine or even necessary for many, but not for me since the high ISO aspect has never been an issue with the S or any other camera I use … I simply do not like the high ISO results on anything I've seen to date including the A7/A7R, M(240), and some other highly touted lower light options. It's just a matter of personal preference.

    Plus I have my shooting and PP technique down on the S CCD camera and want to maintain consistency and continuity with my previous S works.

    So, I have three years of new warranty coverage while the CMOS is sorted out and any other possible fixes or updates that may happen.

    - Marc
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    I cross-posted this on a few Leica S related forums hoping to read how other Leica S users feel about the new camera.


    Now that Photokina-storm is behind us and we’ve all had a little more time to let everything sink in, here are some of my thoughts and questions (to Leica) on the new S. The more I think about it, the more I like the new camera, but I have some questions/suggestions. The final version is still at least 6 months away, so I guess there’s enough time for the design team to sit down and evaluate some of the feedback from potential customers.

    This write up by David Farkas is quite interesting:

    » Photokina 2014: Day 2 – Everything you need to know about the Leica S (Typ 007)

    The pictures on this website (in Dutch) made me think about the video implementation as it was presented at PK’14.

    Leica introduceert Leica S-E en Leica S met 4K video #photokina2014. | Leica in Nederland

    Video/motion:

    - Why not CinemaDNG instead of Motion JPEG? This should give considerably more headroom in post. Of course there’s a lot of data to be chewed on, but Motion JPEG seems too limited.

    - Why not HDMI 1.4(a) out for external 4K recording? HDMI v1.3 cannot carry 4K signals and will be quite out of date in 2015 and beyond. Lots of consumer electronics come with the new HDMI standard already.

    - 4K recording from the whole sensor would make the camera much more interesting, even if this means pixel binning/line skipping. The look from the complete 30x45mm sensor would make it quite unique and wide angle lenses would stay wide angle.

    - Looking at the picture of the video camera rig I can’t understand why they’d have designed it like this; looking through the optical viewfinder makes no sense since the mirror has to be up for video-shooting. Why not make the flash-shoe take an EVF so that is an option for more ergonomically handling in video-mode?

    - As for sound, I don’t think the use of 3.5 mm jack connections is going to be enough for professional sound. Balanced XLR is what will be necessary if sound is recorded directly on the camera.

    - I think Leica still has a lot of work to do concerning video in the new S. I suggest they take a long, hard look at the video specs of for example the €1500 Samsung NX1. Again, to really be of interest to the motion/video crowd in 2015-2019 (2-4 years for the next completely new S to arrive) the video specs need to be much better implemented and certainly be more modern than the newly announced S.


    I’ll leave it at that for now, with one more minor remark about the hyperfocal distance read-out on the top-display, I think the order should be reversed so that it reads back/focus/front instead of front/focus/back. To me, this seems much more logical from the POV of the camera operator. Maybe Leica can make the order of appearance a menu option.

  30. #130
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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    I cross-posted this on a few Leica S related forums hoping to read how other Leica S users feel about the new camera.


    Now that Photokina-storm is behind us and we’ve all had a little more time to let everything sink in, here are some of my thoughts and questions (to Leica) on the new S. The more I think about it, the more I like the new camera, but I have some questions/suggestions. The final version is still at least 6 months away, so I guess there’s enough time for the design team to sit down and evaluate some of the feedback from potential customers.

    This write up by David Farkas is quite interesting:

    » Photokina 2014: Day 2 – Everything you need to know about the Leica S (Typ 007)

    The pictures on this website (in Dutch) made me think about the video implementation as it was presented at PK’14.

    Leica introduceert Leica S-E en Leica S met 4K video #photokina2014. | Leica in Nederland

    Video/motion:

    - Why not CinemaDNG instead of Motion JPEG? This should give considerably more headroom in post. Of course there’s a lot of data to be chewed on, but Motion JPEG seems too limited.

    - Why not HDMI 1.4(a) out for external 4K recording? HDMI v1.3 cannot carry 4K signals and will be quite out of date in 2015 and beyond. Lots of consumer electronics come with the new HDMI standard already.

    - 4K recording from the whole sensor would make the camera much more interesting, even if this means pixel binning/line skipping. The look from the complete 30x45mm sensor would make it quite unique and wide angle lenses would stay wide angle.

    - Looking at the picture of the video camera rig I can’t understand why they’d have designed it like this; looking through the optical viewfinder makes no sense since the mirror has to be up for video-shooting. Why not make the flash-shoe take an EVF so that is an option for more ergonomically handling in video-mode?

    - As for sound, I don’t think the use of 3.5 mm jack connections is going to be enough for professional sound. Balanced XLR is what will be necessary if sound is recorded directly on the camera.

    - I think Leica still has a lot of work to do concerning video in the new S. I suggest they take a long, hard look at the video specs of for example the €1500 Samsung NX1. Again, to really be of interest to the motion/video crowd in 2015-2019 (2-4 years for the next completely new S to arrive) the video specs need to be much better implemented and certainly be more modern than the newly announced S.


    I’ll leave it at that for now, with one more minor remark about the hyperfocal distance read-out on the top-display, I think the order should be reversed so that it reads back/focus/front instead of front/focus/back. To me, this seems much more logical from the POV of the camera operator. Maybe Leica can make the order of appearance a menu option.
    Good post Peter,Your background in video really bringing a clear perspective on the video implementation.

    Rob.
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    Question Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    I recently picked up a new S(006) for half the price of the new CMOS S camera which I'm sure will be fine or even necessary for many, but not for me since the high ISO aspect has never been an issue with the S or any other camera I use … I simply do not like the high ISO results on anything I've seen to date including the A7/A7R, M(240), and some other highly touted lower light options. It's just a matter of personal preference.

    Plus I have my shooting and PP technique down on the S CCD camera and want to maintain consistency and continuity with my previous S works.

    So, I have three years of new warranty coverage while the CMOS is sorted out and any other possible fixes or updates that may happen.

    - Marc
    Hi Marc,

    have you installed the new firmware update 2.4.0.0 for your S (typ 006) body and lenses? is it true the AF speed and tracking is significantly improved? I read on another forum that the 120CS lens no longer has hunting issues, is this the case? also have you noticed any tethered speed improvements with the 006 on the latest version of LR5? I'm currently on the look out to buy a good used S myself, cheers for any info.
    MANA WAIRUA

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by elitegroup View Post
    Hi Marc,

    have you installed the new firmware update 2.4.0.0 for your S (typ 006) body and lenses? is it true the AF speed and tracking is significantly improved? I read on another forum that the 120CS lens no longer has hunting issues, is this the case? also have you noticed any tethered speed improvements with the 006 on the latest version of LR5? I'm currently on the look out to buy a good used S myself, cheers for any info.
    Yes, I've updated all firmware in camera and for all my lenses including the CS120/2.5.

    I just shot a wedding using the lens with and without off-camera lighting on the S type 006. (I've sold my S2P already).

    I was sloooow going in low available lighting, it did small spurts of hunting, but it no longer went from one extreme to the other when working its ***-off trying to acquire focus. My CS35 and CS70 were both noticeably faster even in low light and very accurate.

    In no way are the typical 35mm AF lenses in any danger of being challenged … (except my ZA85/1.4 screw drive on the A99 while using off center AF points … which drove me crazy with all the hunting).

    I didn't try any tracking, and haven't shot the new camera tethered yet.

    - Marc

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, I've updated all firmware in camera and for all my lenses including the CS120/2.5.

    I just shot a wedding using the lens with and without off-camera lighting on the S type 006. (I've sold my S2P already).

    I was sloooow going in low available lighting, it did small spurts of hunting, but it no longer went from one extreme to the other when working its ***-off trying to acquire focus. My CS35 and CS70 were both noticeably faster even in low light and very accurate.

    In no way are the typical 35mm AF lenses in any danger of being challenged … (except my ZA85/1.4 screw drive on the A99 while using off center AF points … which drove me crazy with all the hunting).

    I didn't try any tracking, and haven't shot the new camera tethered yet.

    - Marc
    Thanks for that, I look forward to testing an updated S (006) asap, cheers
    MANA WAIRUA

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    Re: Leica S replacement at Photokina

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, I've updated all firmware in camera and for all my lenses including the CS120/2.5.

    I just shot a wedding using the lens with and without off-camera lighting on the S type 006. (I've sold my S2P already).

    I was sloooow going in low available lighting, it did small spurts of hunting, but it no longer went from one extreme to the other when working its ***-off trying to acquire focus. My CS35 and CS70 were both noticeably faster even in low light and very accurate.

    In no way are the typical 35mm AF lenses in any danger of being challenged … (except my ZA85/1.4 screw drive on the A99 while using off center AF points … which drove me crazy with all the hunting).

    I didn't try any tracking, and haven't shot the new camera tethered yet.

    - Marc
    Marc,I know your not in for 100mm from as it lacks CS but these are nice samples..

    2014 Leica Summicron-S 100 - SORTVITT

    Exif is on the top left of each image..

    Rob

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