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Thread: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

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    Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Hi everyone!
    I`m new user on this forum, so my first words should be "hi everyone"
    Well, the question i need help to be resolved is - which one to buy, Pentax 645Z or Hassy H5D-40? Couldn`t find any comparing tests on the internet, so i've decided to try make thru it with your help.
    I understand that these two are very different cameras, made for different tasks. Hassy made to shine in studio at the first place and break down twice a month, pentax made to perform good everywere, and to crush bricks under heavy rain, but...i`ve found a severe amount of test shots from hassy, and to my opinion, it`s definetly sharper and more detailed than pentax shots i could find (and i`ve found a lot), even considering the sensor resolution difference. Can`t get rid of that feeling.
    And that`s a question.
    You see, my work consists of nearly 50/50 studio/outdoors shooting. Also i make a lot of video. All i do now i do on my old canon 5dmk2, and it`s quite good actually. So, for me hassy would be and that`s no question a big leap of IQ in studio shootings. And for outdoor and video i still have canon workhorse. So hassy is an addition, not the replacement.
    On the other hand, pentax is an IQ leap in any kind of shooting i could put it in, exept maybe sports. And handheld video. Maybe. So that`s a replacement, not addition.
    So, the question is - is hassy really considerably sharper and provides beter IQ than 645z? I`m not asking about reliability or iso speeds or any other obvious pros of pentax, just about sharpness and details.
    Because that`s only thing that important for me now to go and buy one of these, and there`s no option for me to go and try both.
    If anyone, ho tried both of this cameras help me and make my doubts go away, i would be extremely thankful. Cmon, wise guys, really desperate fo help
    PS sorry for some grammar issues - english is not my native.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    I haven't used any of these cameras but read a lot etc, and as far as I understand so yes the quality of Hasselblad lenses is generally better so you will have a sharper file.

    However, while the 645z lenses are not top notch many of them are rather good, and some of them are not so good. When looking at samples one need to consider which lens is being used, it may not be one of the better ones.

    You may find LuLa's recent review helpful. Although it does not contain any pixelpeep samples it discusses lens quality. As said there, if you prefer a camera with 8 in image quality and 10 in usability rather than the other way around, you'd probably go for the 645z. If you need that tenner in image quality, it's probably the Hassy.

    You also have the skin tone factor, while Hassy is proven in studio portraits the 645z is a bit new, I haven't really heard what the verdict is concerning skin tones, other than that you should not use Adobe's default profiles but rather Pentax's own (unsurprisingly).

    I think most will agree that in ideal conditions (ie studio conditions) the Hassy will provide better image quality, but whether this difference is relevant or not will be a matter of taste, which you will have to decide for yourself.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Not sure where you got the information that a Hasselblad H5D/40 is going to break-down twice a month.

    My H4D/40 never failed me even once, nor the H3D-II/31 before it. I understand that any brand can have its share of issues occasionally, but the H system is generally known for reasonable reliability and is just as good as any MFD system on the market, sometimes better.

    I think you will be hard pressed to find someone that has both a H5D/40 and a Pentax 645Z to provide a direct user comparison, especially side-by-side comparisons of IQ.

    Having used a H4D/60 and H4D/40 extensively, all I can do is point out a few mistaken impressions you have about the Hasselblad.

    To keep my opinion in perspective I no longer have a horse in this race. I retired from most commercial work and now use a dual shutter Leica S2P for what little paid work I do, and for my own personal art photography.

    If I had not retired, I'd now be using a H5D/200 and a H5D/40. Pentax was never on my radar because it is a focal plane shutter system.

    The H5D/40 is more than a studio camera. It is quite at home doing location work. I used a H-40 for outdoor portraits, shooting weddings, travel work, and out of studio commercial assignments. In each case using both available light and/or professional strobe lighting.

    The two functional advantages it provides are True Focus APL (which has been improved even more on the H5 camera), and high sync speed when using lighting (especially outdoors).

    Neither the Pentax (1/125 sync), nor the Canon (1/250 sync), can match the ambient control and action stopping shutter speed provided by the H5's 1/800 sync when working with strobes.

    Having used Canon, Nikon extensively, I can say neither offers the ability of using the focus-recompose technique on subjects like a portrait, landscape, or product as quickly and accurately as True Focus can. TF allows you to focus using the center AF spot anywhere in the frame and recomposing where it then automatically corrects focus due to the recomposing even if the focus point is now at the very far edge of the frame. In the time it takes to wheel the focus point of a Canon I've already taken the shot on the Hasselblad. For sure the Pentax cannot do that.

    Then there is tethered work in the studio connected to Hasselblad's Phocus software, the H5D is fast and offers various abilities for clients to remotely view images on an iPad. It can also be used with Adobe LR for tethered work if you prefer. I'm not sure the Pentax even has the ability to work tethered (perhaps someone else can clarify that).

    Neither the Pentax nor the Hasselblad is as fast to focus in poorer light, or anywhere as good for focus tracking as the Canon.

    The Hasselblad lens offerings from 24mm to 300mm are state of the art optically, are consistent lens-to-lens, with many legacy lenses having been re-designed for digital capture. The HC50-II is one of the best medium wides I have ever used, including the ones I now own from Leica.

    I believe the combination of optics and use of a CCD sensor adds to impression of acuity you observed. You are not alone in that observation.

    The Canon beats the MFD cameras for high ISO, and the Pentax beats the H45D/40 after ISO 800 but the H5D/40 does a very good ISO 1600 if exposed carefully and a proper WB is used. Only you can determine if you need more than 1600 from a MFD system in actual practice. I never did, I used a FF 35mm in that type of light because it could focus faster.

    IMO, the Canon/Hasselblad offers the most versatile combination allowing the broadest range of solutions but that depends on how much you use lighting, and whether the Pentax is vastly superior to the Canon for video work.

    In the end you are in a great position no matter which way you go.

    - Marc
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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    The Pentax 645Z features a Sony CMOS sensor, which provides extraordinary dynamic range. However there are several limitations:

    a) According to diglloyd's tests, the current digital lenses offered by Pentax are limiting the image quality (compared against Sony A7R + Zeiss lenses);

    b) The flash sync of the 645Z is only 1/125s, while the H5D/IQ2 series could give you 1/800s to 1/1600s;

    c) You lose the fun to play it with tech cam!

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    That the Hasselblad H can be a bit unreliable, especially in outdoor scenarios with moisture etc, I hear now and then from various users. How widespread this is I cannot know, but I do think it's true that Hasselblad H has got this reputation. More precisely, the reputation is great camera body when it works, could be more reliable though.

    I think all indications are that the 645z body is etter fit for outdoor conditions than a Hasselblad H.

    Concerning reliability I have noticed that MF users generally have a different expectation than DSLR users (photojournalism, wildlife etc). When an MF user says "it's reliable" it may still mean that they may have some occassional hickup in tethering or having to reboot the camera or back once in a while, and certainly this is no problem when you shoot in the studio, while a photojournalist or wildlife photographer that only get one chance to capture the moment must be able to trust the camera at all times.

    That Hasselblad would be any worse than other MF brands though is less sure. My experience with Leaf and other user's reports show similar issues with reliability.

    I'm a landscape photographer that hikes with the gear, the tent I sleep in can be soaked with moisture when waking up in the morning, the temperature can be -30C in the winter. As such a user you will look at reliability from a different angle than a studio photographer. I consider my MF gear be reliable enough, but it's not "photojournalist DSLR-reliable", and I doubt any MF system with detachable back live up to that grade, while the 645z might (a bit early to say).

    Concerning tethering -- there is no tethering solution for the 645z yet, it's coming, but we don't know how good it will be. So clearly, if studio work is the most important the Hassy will be better, and if outdoor work is more important the 645z has a stronger case.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by kknd View Post
    Hi everyone!
    I`m new user on this forum, so my first words should be "hi everyone"
    Well, the question i need help to be resolved is - which one to buy, Pentax 645Z or Hassy H5D-40? Couldn`t find any comparing tests on the internet, so i've decided to try make thru it with your help.
    I understand that these two are very different cameras, made for different tasks. Hassy made to shine in studio at the first place and break down twice a month, pentax made to perform good everywere, and to crush bricks under heavy rain, but...i`ve found a severe amount of test shots from hassy, and to my opinion, it`s definetly sharper and more detailed than pentax shots i could find (and i`ve found a lot), even considering the sensor resolution difference. Can`t get rid of that feeling.
    And that`s a question.
    You see, my work consists of nearly 50/50 studio/outdoors shooting. Also i make a lot of video. All i do now i do on my old canon 5dmk2, and it`s quite good actually. So, for me hassy would be and that`s no question a big leap of IQ in studio shootings. And for outdoor and video i still have canon workhorse. So hassy is an addition, not the replacement.
    On the other hand, pentax is an IQ leap in any kind of shooting i could put it in, exept maybe sports. And handheld video. Maybe. So that`s a replacement, not addition.
    So, the question is - is hassy really considerably sharper and provides beter IQ than 645z? I`m not asking about reliability or iso speeds or any other obvious pros of pentax, just about sharpness and details.
    Because that`s only thing that important for me now to go and buy one of these, and there`s no option for me to go and try both.
    If anyone, ho tried both of this cameras help me and make my doubts go away, i would be extremely thankful. Cmon, wise guys, really desperate fo help
    PS sorry for some grammar issues - english is not my native.
    Wow, those are VERY different cameras. Image quality wise the Pentax 645Z will crush a H5D-40 at any iso in any condition. No question. The H5D-40 has a good but older CCD sensor, superb at low iso but not so much at high iso. The Pentax sensor also has a bit more dynamic range. Color depth might be similar.

    Now, that said, one not only uses a camera by itself. There are the lenses! and software. So think of it as a system.

    I for one love the Hasselblad H lenses. They all have leaf shutters so they sync with flash up to 1/800 sec and they are all high quality (in AF, build and feel and optical performance). It is a really nice system. The digital back itself it is good but the lcd is bested ( by a lot) by the one in the 645z (and even by the one in the 645D) and specially the one in the PhaseOne IQ backs.

    The PhaseOne IQ backs are a great alternative and the IQ140 is a VERY nice back that can be had at a good price. Mate it with a H4x and you can use it with H lenses and still have the option to mount it on a tech camera.

    The Hasselblad and PhaseOne backs also work great tethered. The Pentax, not so much.

    Hasselblad and PhaseOne have great service and support (specially if you buy from a dealer, I use DT in NYC). With Pentax if the camera needs any repair expect to be without for 10 weeks, yes, two months! Search around there are some "horror" stories about this.

    So as you can see image quality of the camera is just one factor of many to take into consideration.

    As a System, which includes service and support, the Pentax still has some improving to do. As a camera body the 645Z is probably the most integrated, user friendly, versatile and superb medium format digital camera ever made.

    I had a 645D and liked it but sold it mainly due to the lack of service and support and and also the variable lens quality. (some are very good, others not so much, build quality and feel of the lenses are a notch (or several) below Canon L lenses)

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    That the Hasselblad H can be a bit unreliable, especially in outdoor scenarios with moisture etc, I hear now and then from various users. How widespread this is I cannot know, but I do think it's true that Hasselblad H has got this reputation. More precisely, the reputation is great camera body when it works, could be more reliable though.

    I think all indications are that the 645z body is etter fit for outdoor conditions than a Hasselblad H.

    Concerning reliability I have noticed that MF users generally have a different expectation than DSLR users (photojournalism, wildlife etc). When an MF user says "it's reliable" it may still mean that they may have some occassional hickup in tethering or having to reboot the camera or back once in a while, and certainly this is no problem when you shoot in the studio, while a photojournalist or wildlife photographer that only get one chance to capture the moment must be able to trust the camera at all times.

    That Hasselblad would be any worse than other MF brands though is less sure. My experience with Leaf and other user's reports show similar issues with reliability.

    I'm a landscape photographer that hikes with the gear, the tent I sleep in can be soaked with moisture when waking up in the morning, the temperature can be -30C in the winter. As such a user you will look at reliability from a different angle than a studio photographer. I consider my MF gear be reliable enough, but it's not "photojournalist DSLR-reliable", and I doubt any MF system with detachable back live up to that grade, while the 645z might (a bit early to say).

    Concerning tethering -- there is no tethering solution for the 645z yet, it's coming, but we don't know how good it will be. So clearly, if studio work is the most important the Hassy will be better, and if outdoor work is more important the 645z has a stronger case.
    I'm only speaking from direct experience using H's for over 10 years. I have been caught in a monsoon downpour, shot in driving snowstorms, horrible tropical humidity, etc., to no ill effect but may well have just been lucky each and every time. I've also used it to shoot stuff where there is no second chances, not just repeatable studio work. Personally, I think people think these cameras are more fragile then they actually are. But that's just me. A little care goes a long way.

    The only non-direct experience, internet hear-say I can forward is that from the Hasselblad website where amongst the improvements they announced

    >More accurate focusing with True Focus II
    >New Immediate Focus Confirm
    >New print ready Jpeg files
    >Larger and more ergonomic buttons
    >Larger, easier to read display style
    >Updated Graphics User Interface
    >More programmable buttons
    >New and improved weather sealing
    >New and faster processors implementing Hasselblad Image Processing Architecture

    Of course, a camera that offers modular viewfinder choices and a removable back has to be more vulnerable even with improved weather sealing compared to a camera that is not modular Like my S2P and the Pentax.

    - Marc

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_R View Post
    Image quality wise the Pentax 645Z will crush a H5D-40 at any iso in any condition. No question.
    Pretty strong statement. It would be interesting to know what makes you so sure...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_R View Post
    The PhaseOne IQ backs are a great alternative and the IQ140 is a VERY nice back that can be had at a good price. Mate it with a H4x and you can use it with H lenses and still have the option to mount it on a tech camera.
    You will be fine as long as you stick with HC lenses. The HCD lenses are not very well or not at all supported by Capture One.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    I have owned the last three series of H cameras from the H3d39 to the H5d50.
    Any breakdowns that have occurred on these three cameras have been my fault; the H5D50 which I have had for 15 months has never failed me....I use it every day
    stanley

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    The Hasselblad H5D-40 uses a Kodak/TrueSense sensor, ie not as good in terms of technical performance as the Dalsa in IQ140, and worse still than the Sony CMOS in 645z. So yes, in DxOmark-style performance the H5D-40 will indeed be behind in pretty much every aspect in every condition. That does not mean that the H5D-40 sensor is bad, not just state of the art.

    However, not all shooting styles involve pushing shadows 4 stops and peep for noise. Do look at pictures and evaluate color and texture. Some like the Hasselblad/Kodak/Phocus look. If you like that better it may be tricky to replicate with the 645z or say an IQ140.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    So yes, in DxOmark-style performance the H5D-40 will indeed be behind in pretty much every aspect in every condition.
    I assume that is the same DxOMark that tested the Leica M9 sensor and found it to be inferior in image quality…

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    This is probably the most accurate assessment of the 645Z, Pentax and Pentax lenses, all contained in one article, that I've yet read:

    Pentax 645z In-Depth Review

    You can go to www:imaging-resource.com and download RAW/DNG files at various ISO settings.

    One area where the 645Z reigns is in extremely high ISO performance. The video capabilities of the Z are nothing to get excited about. I don't own a Z, the older D instead. The Z or the Hassey decision is yours to make. If I was making the decision about video (assuming image IQ to be paramount) I would sell the 5DII and go to a Panasonic GH4 or SONY A7s.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by JorisV View Post
    I assume that is the same DxOMark that tested the Leica M9 sensor and found it to be inferior in image quality…
    Yes, the measurable aspects. And those are true, they do quality measurements, but as said the results are not too important in practical image making. Those that tonemap much will not want a noisy sensor though, but if you don't any fairly recent and large sensor will deliver on a technical level.

    DXO doesn't measure "look" as it's subjective. My impression is that studio / portrait photographers are more dependent on look, while landscape photographers often desire high technical performance more. Skin tones is not a factor in landscape (rarely bokeh either), and you often need to relight the scene a bit in post-processing, which make technical aspects of performance show.
    Last edited by torger; 6th September 2014 at 01:15.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    DXO doesn't measure "look" as it's subjective. My impression is that studio / portrait photographers are more dependent on look, while landscape photographers often desire high technical performance more.
    All very true.

    I shoot people and the look of the files, the skin tones, the character and the rendering of the lenses is much more more important to me than the number of MP and clinical (corner) sharpness of the lenses.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by JorisV View Post
    All very true.

    I shoot people and the look of the files, the skin tones, the character and the rendering of the lenses is much more more important to me than the number of MP and clinical (corner) sharpness of the lenses.
    I would agree and certainly that is why Phase and Hasselblad are strong in your market. But I have to wonder, not being a portraiture, studio or wedding photographer, how many of you who do portraiture and wedding work, rely on software to a larger degree than in the past, to correct/enhance skin tones and add other attributes of a positive nature, to your final output? I've seen the promotions for that type of software but I've never investigated it.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Hi KKND,
    I had the h4d-40 since it's debut and I can say it was a perfect camera, balanced and precise, the autofocus is very good too, plus it has true focus, the lens are high quality too...
    NEVER the camera "break down" in studio nor in location nor in mountains etc...
    Two months ago I've changed to the new H5D-50c that has the same CMOS sensor of Pentax... to me it's a true improvement of the performance of my H system lens/accessory,
    the sensor enable photography in situation where before was restricted to flash or tripod with long exposure... the quality is still at the top...
    I look at Pentax seriously especially for the price.. but on the lens / accessory side to me is not interesting... it's like buying a sport car with wooden wheels...
    Finally, If You can afford the 50c is the right choice, maybe starting with a single lens for the first month, then You can buy all the H lens Your work needs month by month or day by day You will not be disappointed !

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    I've owned several MFD systems including Leica S, Phase One IQ 260, P25+ (DF+, Cambo/Alpa) and Hasselblad H4D-40. They are outstanding systems and I love them. I am not a good seller so I've still kept all of them.

    I've just bought the Pentax 645Z and been very impressed in its performance especially its high ISO. It's had almost everything the Nikon D800 has with water resistance. It is a perfect "hand-held MFD". It's a dream camera for a stary night and milky way. ISO is useable to 6400 and even 12800.

    Although the lens quality are not as good as the Leica (no others do), the cost is markedly less especially in an honest 2nd hand market (from Japan). I bought it because of the 25mm lens and have thrilled with its quality. The 24mm-Leica will cost me $8, 000.

    Don't cross it out unless you want to use the back with a tech camera, the Holy Grail of landscape photography and money drain. Read this link in LUL by M Reichman. You'll save lots of money with a top-notched sensor. I don't know about the service, something to consider too.

    Pentax 645z In-Depth Review

    Pramote
    Last edited by Landscapelover; 6th September 2014 at 13:50.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Hi
    Just wanted to jump in with a few words, I'm a commercial/advertising photographer and shoot rented MF all the time. I don't own any as we rent based on needs and budgets.
    Hasselblads have been probably the most stable platform I've shot on, Sure I've had issue's with them, but then again I've had issue's with Canon, nikon and Phase as well....
    I've never even seen a Pentax 645z in person, so have absolutely no opinions on it, but if you shoot studio, the lack of tether kills the option for me 100%... (Honestly I don't know what Pentax is thinking not coming out with tether when the camera was announced.)
    One of the biggest selling points of the H series for me is the "True Focus" it's so good and works so well, if I'm shooting a person/model, I always take the H over anything, also IMHO Iso 800 is quite usable on the H4D-40/H5D-40 (haven't shot with the 50c yet).
    As well since it sounds like I'm ranting , never understood this Studio/outside thing, what makes a camera a studio camera? Personally I've dragged anything and everything I've had over the years (8x10-MF-D/SLR/ Polaroid/Holga....) on location with me (winter/summer/rain or sun).
    As you see attached, H4D-40 Tethered in -3C outside shooting a lookbook for a designer... worked out great!
    Good luck with your choice.
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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by Landscapelover View Post
    I've owned several MFD systems including Leica S, Phase One IQ 260, P25+ (DF+, Cambo/Alpa) and Hasselblad H4D-40. They are outstanding systems and I love them. I am not a good seller so I've still kept all of them.

    I've just bought the Pentax 645Z and been very impressed in its performance especially its high ISO. It's had almost everything the Nikon D800 has with water resistance. It is a perfect "hand-held MFD". It's a dream camera for a stary night and milky way. ISO is useable to 6400 and even 12800.

    Although the lens quality are not as good as the Leica (no others do), the cost is markedly less especially in an honest 2nd hand market (from Japan). I bought it because of the 25mm lens and have thrilled with its quality. The 24mm-Leica will cost me $8, 000.

    Don't cross it out unless you want to use the back with a tech camera, the Holy Grail of landscape photography and money drain. Read this link in LUL by M Reichman. You'll save lots of money with a top-notched sensor. I don't know about the service, something to consider too.

    Pentax 645z In-Depth Review

    Pramote
    Like all reviews take it with a grain of salt. At the beginning he says:
    The rub is that as the 645z gains in popularity (and this article will likely play a role), this set the tone of the article.

    Best regards,
    J. Duncan

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by arashm View Post
    Hi
    Just wanted to jump in with a few words, I'm a commercial/advertising photographer and shoot rented MF all the time. I don't own any as we rent based on needs and budgets.
    Hasselblads have been probably the most stable platform I've shot on, Sure I've had issue's with them, but then again I've had issue's with Canon, nikon and Phase as well....
    I've never even seen a Pentax 645z in person, so have absolutely no opinions on it, but if you shoot studio, the lack of tether kills the option for me 100%... (Honestly I don't know what Pentax is thinking not coming out with tether when the camera was announced.)
    One of the biggest selling points of the H series for me is the "True Focus" it's so good and works so well, if I'm shooting a person/model, I always take the H over anything, also IMHO Iso 800 is quite usable on the H4D-40/H5D-40 (haven't shot with the 50c yet).
    As well since it sounds like I'm ranting , never understood this Studio/outside thing, what makes a camera a studio camera? Personally I've dragged anything and everything I've had over the years (8x10-MF-D/SLR/ Polaroid/Holga....) on location with me (winter/summer/rain or sun).
    As you see attached, H4D-40 Tethered in -3C outside shooting a lookbook for a designer... worked out great!
    Good luck with your choice.
    The 645z like the 645D is not really intended to compete head on with Hasselblad and Phase One, but rather be another alternative, see it as a 35mm camera with a larger sensor. It has the live view the high ISO the weather proofing, multipoint auto-focus etc what you'd expect. Tethering is secondary for the target audience. However, they will add it and then it may compete more head on with Hasselblad and Phase, depending on how successful it is.

    What makes a camera a "studio camera" is the design and target audience. Lack of great high ISO and lacking general sturdiness (ie not built like a tank) but instead focus on features like tethering and leaf shutters is to me what make a camera a studio camera from a design perspective. One can argue that simply costing a lot makes it a studio camera as it tends to make photographers more careful with the system and they should be when trying to catch photos in outdoor conditions where the best tripod position might be in a stream. And then when you see sales of these cameras it's mainly to photographers that use it in a studio. That doesn't make it impossible to use outdoors of course.
    Last edited by torger; 7th September 2014 at 12:21.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by jduncan View Post
    Like all reviews take it with a grain of salt. At the beginning he says:
    The rub is that as the 645z gains in popularity (and this article will likely play a role), this set the tone of the article.
    If one reads the article it becomes pretty clear that with his shooting style and printing style the 645z is the current ideal. He never shoots tethered, he never uses flash, he often shoots hand-held and a lot of unplanned "capture the moment" type of shots, and if you know Michael from before you know he loves Adobe Lightroom.

    So I don't think the review is dishonestly biased in any way, but each reader must of course factor in his or her own way to shoot and print.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    I gave a comment because the OP posted "..If anyone, who tried both of this cameras help me and make my doubts go away, i would be extremely thankful. Cmon, wise guys, really desperate of help" . I've been using the H4D-40 for years and just bought the 645Z so I've just wanted to share my opinion. I don't think anyone want to drop $10, 000+ for just a few reviews. In real life, sky is only a limit for either one of these systems. Galen Rowell would be thrilled!

    I don't shoot people or take VDO, only landscape photography so I can't comment about skin tone etc. The LS and tethering, of course, would put the 645Z out of the picture for a serious studio system. I think the OP has already known about these issues.

    If money is not an issue, either Phase one or Hasselblad (plus Leica S/S2 with H adapter) may be better choices. I just want to express that the 645Z is damn good for landscape photography at a much lower cost with high ISO sensor. However, if you want the best landscape photography, drop few more 10K's and get the tech camera with MFDB.

    My comment may be in a wrong place because I am only an amateur, just do landscape photography for the love of it but have never made a penny out of it!
    Last edited by Landscapelover; 7th September 2014 at 14:17.
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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by arashm View Post
    I've never even seen a Pentax 645z in person, so have absolutely no opinions on it, but if you shoot studio, the lack of tether kills the option for me 100%... (Honestly I don't know what Pentax is thinking not coming out with tether when the camera was announced.)
    Actually, you can wirelessly tether the 645Z. Not only was this available for the 645D, Pentax also announced this for the 645Z--it was one of the selling points of the Z. Apparently, they were thinking it was a good idea.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by kknd View Post
    So, the question is - is hassy really considerably sharper and provides beter IQ than 645z?
    I would say not in any meaningful way or at least it is a bit of a toss up depending (can't separate noise from sharpness). This might help:

    Review: The Pentax 645Z, part II: compared to the 645D, Nikon D800E and Hasselblad CFV-39

    What I would do is determine the focal lengths you need and look for the reviews of those lenses. Some Pentax lenses are dogs--the 45mm prime is a prime example. But many are good and some are really great. So far, the new DFA lenses (25mm, 28-45mm, 55mm, and 90mm) seem really good and two of them offer optical stabilization. The older lenses can be outstanding as well--the 120mm Macro and 35mm lenses come to mind as well as the 300mm f/4.

    I think which ever you choose, you will have an excellent camera. Personally, I would choose based on the focal lengths of the optics to see if they match your work. One thing I liked is that Pentax had a real normal prime lens, 55mm.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    >The two functional advantages it provides are True Focus APL...and high sync speed when using lighting (especially outdoors).

    SPOT ON - True Focus is magic, there's nothing like it on the market. I nail focus on EVERY shot thanks to this clever technology (right down to the eyelash on a re-composed image, honestly it's the best thing about the camera for me). I think Hasselblad have done a lousy job in marketing this, it's such a wonderful point-of-difference, something that absolutely adds value.
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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    First of all, i`d like to thank everyone who found a minute and shared his very own expirience. I`v got a plenty of information that is really helpful.
    Unfortunately, there`s absolutley no way to find both these cameras and test it myself. I think there ain`t one at maybe 1000 km range from my location. That`s why your help is invaluable.
    So lets sum up a little. According to your answers and advices, pros and cons that important for me are:

    Hassy
    + noticably sharper lenses
    + smooth tethering
    + true focus
    + sync up to 1/800

    - iso range much narrower
    - top shutter speed 1/800 (not sure if it`s a drawback, but i sometimes use 1/2000-1/4000 outdoors)

    Pentax:
    + wild iso range
    + same sensor that is in twice more expensive h5d-50c
    + video
    + weather sealing

    - not so good lenses
    - tethering is wireless only and wierd
    - 1/125 sync speed
    - leaf shutter only avaliable on two old lenses

    Have i got it right?
    Last edited by kknd; 8th September 2014 at 02:20.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I think which ever you choose, you will have an excellent camera. Personally, I would choose based on the focal lengths of the optics to see if they match your work. One thing I liked is that Pentax had a real normal prime lens, 55mm.
    Thanks for advise. I wasn`t thinking of it that way - my preffered lens is 70-200 and i use it in 80% of my work.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by Landscapelover View Post
    I gave a comment because the OP posted "..If anyone, who tried both of this cameras help me and make my doubts go away, i would be extremely thankful. Cmon, wise guys, really desperate of help" . I've been using the H4D-40 for years and just bought the 645Z so I've just wanted to share my opinion. I don't think anyone want to drop $10, 000+ for just a few reviews. In real life, sky is only a limit for either one of these systems. Galen Rowell would be thrilled!

    I don't shoot people or take VDO, only landscape photography so I can't comment about skin tone etc. The LS and tethering, of course, would put the 645Z out of the picture for a serious studio system. I think the OP has already known about these issues.

    If money is not an issue, either Phase one or Hasselblad (plus Leica S/S2 with H adapter) may be better choices. I just want to express that the 645Z is damn good for landscape photography at a much lower cost with high ISO sensor. However, if you want the best landscape photography, drop few more 10K's and get the tech camera with MFDB.

    My comment may be in a wrong place because I am only an amateur, just do landscape photography for the love of it but have never made a penny out of it!
    Thanks a lot for your opinion. Price does matter, but i`m capped by $35,000, so Phase is not an option, and 645 loooks really nice with it`s pros and price tag.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by modator View Post
    Hi KKND,
    I had the h4d-40 since it's debut and I can say it was a perfect camera, balanced and precise, the autofocus is very good too, plus it has true focus, the lens are high quality too...
    NEVER the camera "break down" in studio nor in location nor in mountains etc...
    Two months ago I've changed to the new H5D-50c that has the same CMOS sensor of Pentax... to me it's a true improvement of the performance of my H system lens/accessory,
    the sensor enable photography in situation where before was restricted to flash or tripod with long exposure... the quality is still at the top...
    I look at Pentax seriously especially for the price.. but on the lens / accessory side to me is not interesting... it's like buying a sport car with wooden wheels...
    Finally, If You can afford the 50c is the right choice, maybe starting with a single lens for the first month, then You can buy all the H lens Your work needs month by month or day by day You will not be disappointed !
    Hi! thanks for the answer. Yes, i was thinking about 50c, but you know it`s almost 3 times more expensive than 645z. And i`m asking myself - does it really worth it?
    And by the way, wierd thing. Same sensor, but hassy allows top iso speed 6400. What`s the point? Pentax made it work at 12800, and work well...

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Not sure where you got the information that a Hasselblad H5D/40 is going to break-down twice a month.
    I`m not sure about the quality of that information, so thanks a lot for clearing my mistaken impressions
    I do use studio lighting a lot, but also a do a lot of outdoors and indoors shootings with natural lighting. So that`s a big question for me, would hassy perform good enough when it`s taken away from the paradise and face cruel real world. I think there`s no question that pentax will do better, mostly thanks to its sensor.
    You right, that`s a question of the way i`m going to use the camera, and the only person who have the answer is me.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Actually, you can wirelessly tether the 645Z. Not only was this available for the 645D, Pentax also announced this for the 645Z--it was one of the selling points of the Z. Apparently, they were thinking it was a good idea.
    Was it a good idea?
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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Was it a good idea?
    Well if it`s stable and fast, so why not? In some way it can be more handy to control camera and check out images by ipad.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by kknd View Post
    First of all, i`d like to thank everyone who found a minute and shared his very own expirience. I`v got a plenty of information that is really helpful.
    Unfortunately, there`s absolutley no way to find both these cameras and test it myself. I think there ain`t one at maybe 1000 km range from my location. That`s why your help is invaluable.
    So lets sum up a little. According to your answers and advices, pros and cons that important for me are:

    Hassy
    + noticably sharper lenses
    + smooth tethering
    + true focus
    + sync up to 1/800

    - iso range much narrower
    - top shutter speed 1/800 (not sure if it`s a drawback, but i sometimes use 1/2000-1/4000 outdoors)

    Pentax:
    + wild iso range
    + same sensor that is in twice more expensive h5d-50c
    + video
    + weather sealing

    - not so good lenses
    - tethering is wireless only and wierd
    - 1/125 sync speed
    - leaf shutter only avaliable on two old lenses

    Have i got it right?
    Do not forget service/dealer support, and rental availability when traveling or on location. No need to buy every single lens or accessory you may need in future. Rent it (they ship almost anywhere)

    Amount of accessories can be part of your comparison, when I worked with the H camera I used the waist-level finder sometimes, and the HTS/1.5 a fair amount.

    Being a focal plane camera the Pentax is at a disadvantage when working with lighting, but I believe you can adapt other lenses to the Pentax such as the Zeiss V lenses including the FE versions like the 110/2 and 50/2.8.

    While there are those that prefer the look and feel of CCD sensors, you do not seem to be one of them ... preferring specs like high ISO ... so just go with what you prefer. That it is less expensive is just a bonus.

    - Marc

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by kknd View Post
    Thanks a lot for your opinion. Price does matter, but i`m capped by $35,000, so Phase is not an option, and 645 loooks really nice with it`s pros and price tag.
    I can only share my experience with you regarding landscape photography, the only thing I do.
    I've had almost all Hasselblad H lenses and they are remarkable (may favorites - HCD 28, 35-90, 100mm and 300mm). I also love my H4D-40. To be honest, compared to the Phase One DF+, I like the Hasselblad body way much more.
    The decision will finally come to the budget. The Pentax 645Z plus lenses will probably cost you $15, 000. If your budget is $35, 000, you can easily get the Hasselblad. Another plus for the Hasselblad is that you can use the Hasselblad lenses with the Leica S/H adapter. In the future, when you've had more budget, you may decide to get the LEICA S/S2 and a few Leica lenses. Some of them are the best! The adapter is top-notch. For unknown reason, my 35-90mm lens works better on Leica than the H4D-40. The price of the Leica S/S2 body now is also very attractive. I've never experienced a better body.
    Good luck for your decision and please update us what you choose.

    Pramote
    Last edited by Landscapelover; 8th September 2014 at 03:12.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by kknd View Post
    Well if it`s stable and fast, so why not? In some way it can be more handy to control camera and check out images by ipad.

    Is it stable and fast? Anyone actually use this and can report on it?

    How does it work? Does it require a Wifi memory card?

    Tethered shooting is transferring the actual RAW image for close inspection while shooting ... a critical function for many studio applications where speed is part of the process.

    Hasselblad has their own version of wireless but it requires being tethered to a computer which then sends the images to a smart device for compositional approvals by clients, so it isn't wireless capture, just wireless sharing.

    Personally, I never had much need for all these e-bells and whistles ... All I ever cared about was the best optics on a highly stable body that I could plug and play tether to a computer. Prior it was the H system, and now it is the S system.

    Three words say it all ... Lenses, Lenses, Lenses.

    Different strokes for different folks.

    - Marc

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    While there are those that prefer the look and feel of CCD sensors, you do not seem to be one of them ... preferring specs like high ISO ... so just go with what you prefer. That it is less expensive is just a bonus.

    - Marc
    I have no expirience with "CCD look and feel", so for me it`s some kind of abstraction, for now at least. And high ISO - that`s the thing i can imagine

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Is it stable and fast? Anyone actually use this and can report on it?

    How does it work? Does it require a Wifi memory card?

    ..........

    Three words say it all ... Lenses, Lenses, Lenses.

    Different strokes for different folks.

    - Marc
    As long as i know - yes, it requires wi-fi card, so it`s unlikely to be fast and stable.

    I agree with you, when talking about overall look and feel. But when it comes to some commercial shooting, technical stuff matters. And that`s also a sensor responsible for that, not lenses only. Low amount of noise when shooting with low natural light is important for me, and there`s no help that lens could provide in many cases.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by kknd View Post
    I have no experience with "CCD look and feel", so for me it`s some kind of abstraction, for now at least. And high ISO - that`s the thing i can imagine :



    As long as i know - yes, it requires wi-fi card, so it`s unlikely to be fast and stable.

    I agree with you, when talking about overall look and feel. But when it comes to some commercial shooting, technical stuff matters. And that`s also a sensor responsible for that, not lenses only. Low amount of noise when shooting with low natural light is important for me, and there`s no help that lens could provide in many cases.
    Likewise, low light ability will still be diminished by optics ... ISO 6400 doesn't make the lens better

    IMO, the investment is in lenses, and while one camera may be better than the next, it is always a temporary thing until the others catch up. Lenses are much longer term.

    Anyway, you have answered your own original question. The over-riding feature you seem to want/need is higher ISO performance, and the Phase/Leaf/Hasselblad CMOS versions are too expensive in your opinion. I suspect the Leica CMOS S camera version expected at Photokina will also be waaaaay out of the question.

    Best of luck with your Pentax

    - Marc

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Likewise, low light ability will still be diminished by optics ... ISO 6400 doesn't make the lens better

    IMO, the investment is in lenses, and while one camera may be better than the next, it is always a temporary thing until the others catch up. Lenses are much longer term.

    Anyway, you have answered your own original question. The over-riding feature you seem to want/need is higher ISO performance, and the Phase/Leaf/Hasselblad CMOS versions are too expensive in your opinion. I suspect the Leica CMOS S camera version expected at Photokina will also be waaaaay out of the question.

    Best of luck with your Pentax

    - Marc
    Nnnnoooo, still thinkin
    And, surprisingly, drifting from pentax to hassy, `cause, you right, lenses. And as i mentioned earlier, hassy is an addition to my system, making me capable solving wider area of tasks in summary, then pentax alone.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    In case you missed it you now also have the Mamiya Credo 50 to consider.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    In case you missed it you now also have the Mamiya Credo 50 to consider.
    Thanks for advice, but mamiya/leaf is not an option for me. Don`t like DF body at all.

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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    just to say that in medium format film the pentax fa 35 kicked the butt of the hassy 35 in every review by a long mile...just to say something about the quality of pentax glass....the 300 f4 400 5,6 120 macro 75 and 55 2,8 are top notch, the new glass most have nobody stabilization and are top notch. probably they are not leica, but i'm sure they compete hand in hand with phase one mamiya and hassy.

    by the way my most used lens is the a35, a lens of 30 40 years probably, stopped down i doubt you can find a sharper lens corner to corner with nonexistent ca and just a tiny of distortion out there. and it costed me 300 euro.

    P.S: last day i had my back pack open and my 645d plus 35 fall down at home from 1,7 meter!! incredibly the body suffered not even a scratch, probably the lens it the soil before diminishing the impact of the body, the lens suffered a bump to the filter ring. it's all metal and that spot is not curved inside and i cannot mount any filter. do you know a way to straighten it?
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    Re: Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

    Quote Originally Posted by kknd View Post
    Thanks for advice, but mamiya/leaf is not an option for me. Don`t like DF body at all.


    Mamiya/leaf/phase is compatible with lots of bodies: 500, contax, h1/h2/h4x/h5x, RZ, tech cam, view cam. That's the whole point of the open platform approach.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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