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Thread: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    When jerks submit offensive posts, I try to ignore them.* I think it's better for your health and might tend to encourage them to go to some other site.

    *Obviously, this post is an exception to that rule.
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    I thought that the wireless tethering was slow and/or unreliable compared to cabled tethering, and cabled tethering is coming later this year, but maybe I'm misinformed?
    Well, I have yet to see any feedback on the 645Z and tethering option. My experience with wireless (D800) and cable tether (p25+) is they both work well or don't. Both have been smooth for me and both have given me problems. Personally, I prefer the wireless as the cable can be a pain. But with a lack of data or reviews on the Pentax solution, it is hard to say much about it.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    I've got a nice cup of tea.

    Mat
    I am calm too, but I use whisky.
    Will

    http://www.hakusancreation.com
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  4. #54
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    OK, here it comes:

    To talk about MFD without looking at the competitive landscape is simply ignorant and stupid.

    Explanation:

    The assumption is made that buyer is looking for a solution to a set of problems. A good buyer looks at alternatives and chooses the one that fits his/her needs best within set limitations. A smart buyer would normally choose the solution with the lowest cost.

    So, LEAF is now offering a Sony Exmor based back that costs like four Pentax 645z (including four cameras) using exactly the same sensor or 12 pieces of A7r (using a slightly smaller Exmor sensor and still including camera bodies.

    So a smart guy checks the alternatives:

    If 50 MP is needed but intention is not to use on MFD on a technical body the Pentax 645z may be an interesting option. It is well the most advanced MF camera. It is also build with high precision as sensor is aligned to the rest of the camera, an advantage of the integrated approach (that also Leica has chosen with the S).

    If 36 MP is enough the D810 or the A7r may be an interesting choice. The A7r obviously has some issues with shutter vibration, but it seems MFD owners are not much disturbed by that issue. In 3-4 months a new Sony is coming with 46 MP, but perhaps a new Phase One camera will hit the market before that?

    If you need leaf shutter, high ISO and so, the CMOS based MFDBs are optimal, you can go with IQ-250, Hasselblad 50c or the new Leaf back. Still some competitive landscape, isn't it?

    If you need tilts and shifts the older CCD based backs may be better.

    So there are a lot of options, simply.

    Best regards
    Erik
    OK I'll bite...

    So you are quoting me and then choosing to use "stupid" and "ignorant" in your comment. I know this is not personal but I don't think one can just throw this kind of judgement without looking at the complete picture. Having some personal experience with the products in discussion can go a long way toward adding credibility to your statement...

    Have you used/ tried/ tested any of the modern medium format systems? Have you compared it to e.g. D810 or A7R through the eyes & wallet of a potential buyer and in his/ her typical environment?

    A smart buyer IMO would first look at their needs and wishes (as opposed to "problems"), then look at the products that can potentially fulfil those needs/ wishes, consider each product's strengths & weaknesses inc. costs of acquiring, running etc. and ideally should also have some hands-on experience, as limited or as extended as possible.

    If medium format is the product getting the highest score and gets picked, we're all happy.

    If something else gets picked, some of us might be a bit happier but that is the nature of healthy business and there is nothing new or wrong there.

    BR

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Aren't you just a little bored with going on about the price differences? The prices are what they are, people will buy it or not. It's a commercial industry, if there weren't enough people valuing the brand, product, support, dealers, rental houses etc. etc. then Phase/ Hasselblad wouldn't be in business, they aren't charities. Can't we just accept that there are differences in price and move on?
    Personally speaking, I'm not bored at all. The biggest failing of MF has been (and, for the most part, continues to be) its 'reassuringly expensive' pricing structure. Back in the days of film, you could put the same emulsion in your camera as any of the greatest photographers on the planet. The equipment wasn't priced stupidly. Cost wasn't a barrier to entry. With digital, some 'suit' decided on the high-initial-price-to-make-upgrade-attractive model - i.e. get 'em on board and get 'em to upgrade every couple of years. Make it painful for them to miss an upgrade. And what happens when you do get off this merry-go-round, or try to - you find out your 9000 shot IQ180 with VAW can't even make $14k on eBay. Ouch.

    Jim
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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Hi Yair,

    I see your point. You feel that I am quoting you and that implies that my remarks would apply to you?

    My point is a bit different, you start a thread about 44x33 mm Sony Exmor based camera and seem to have objections when the thread discusses lenses, specially the Otus 1.4/55.

    Contrary to what seems to be your view, I feel it is appropriate to discuss a lens/sensor combo as a system, specially as the same generation and type of sensor is used. Clearly the Leaf Credo 50 has marginally larger sensor size and also marginally higher resolution, 50 MP vs 36 MP on DSLRs, a 17% (linear) advantage in MP.

    Clearly, it is a relevant question to ask weather a 44x33 mm sensor on the Credo combined with the available lenses will offer significant benefits over 36 MP DSLRs. Likewise, it is a highly relevant question to ask how the Sony Exmor sensor used by the Leaf Credo handles lens cast and crosstalk compared to the CCD competition.

    Clearly, the Leaf Credo 50 offers around one EV advantage in DR at base ISO over the DSLR competition at base ISO, but it is well possible that base iso may be less used due to shorter DoF at similar apertures. Needing to stop down at for DoF may reduce sharpness due to diffraction.

    The Otus is designed to deliver near optimal sharpness at maximum aperture, with no longitudinal chromatic aberration (green/magenta fringing in out of focus areas), any lenses for MFD designed that way? For instance, the Zeiss lenses for the Hasselblad have significant colour bokeh. Which lenses don't have that in MFD? Most DSLR lenses have round apertures while many MF lenses have octogonal aperture, giving less pleasant out of focus rendition.

    As you see, there are a lot of questions that are relevant before spending a significant amount of money. The way I see it any person interested in using his/her money wisely would look into these and similar aspects before committing to spend a lot of money.

    Getting back to my experience:

    No, I have not used recent MFD. The one I have is the Phase One P45+, but I have seen quite a few raw files from different MF-systems including the IQ-250, so I can draw conclusions from that.

    On DSLRs, I have Sony's and don't have a 36 MP camera, but I actually had models with 6 (FF), 4.7 (APS-C) and 3.9 (APS-C) micron pixels, corresponding to 24, 36 and 54 MP on full frame. It is quite possible to draw some conclusions from that. I have also seen quite a few raw images from Nikons and other system.

    Than, I have some elementary skills of math (so I know about problem sets and boundary conditions) and a long time interest in optics and imaging, something like 40+ years.

    Nothing of that makes me an expert.

    Anyway, my view is that before I invest in any system I look at the advantages and disadvantages, costs and benefits. Done that I can make an educated choice.

    I wouldn't say my choice of Sony has been an educated choice. It had much to do with having compatible lenses. Based on what I know today Canon or Nikon may have been a better choice.

    The Phase One P45+ was an educated choice, on the other hand. It was mostly based economy. Used Hasselblad lenses are very affordable. I am pretty sure it would have been smarter not to go into MF, but I actually enjoy shooting with the stuff, even if I don't know if using MF improved my picture taking.

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    OK I'll bite...

    So you are quoting me and then choosing to use "stupid" and "ignorant" in your comment. I know this is not personal but I don't think one can just throw this kind of judgement without looking at the complete picture. Having some personal experience with the products in discussion can go a long way toward adding credibility to your statement...

    Have you used/ tried/ tested any of the modern medium format systems? Have you compared it to e.g. D810 or A7R through the eyes & wallet of a potential buyer and in his/ her typical environment?

    A smart buyer IMO would first look at their needs and wishes (as opposed to "problems"), then look at the products that can potentially fulfil those needs/ wishes, consider each product's strengths & weaknesses inc. costs of acquiring, running etc. and ideally should also have some hands-on experience, as limited or as extended as possible.

    If medium format is the product getting the highest score and gets picked, we're all happy.

    If something else gets picked, some of us might be a bit happier but that is the nature of healthy business and there is nothing new or wrong there.

    BR

    Yair

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    The Otus is designed to deliver near optimal sharpness at maximum aperture, with no longitudinal chromatic aberration (green/magenta fringing in out of focus areas), any lenses for MFD designed that way? For instance, the Zeiss lenses for the Hasselblad have significant colour bokeh. Which lenses don't have that in MFD?
    The Zeiss lenses for the Hassy 400 are quite old. What's surprising about them is they are still pretty decent, especially when stopped down, and they have a nice look (even if the technical performance is not perfect). But they have not been the benchmark for image quality in medium format lenses for a long time.

    If you'd like to make a comparison to something more recent, like the Schneider LS and Phase One D lenses our office is always open to you.

    Using a lens like a 110LS/2.8 might well change your mind on this.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    the Leaf Credo 50 has marginally larger sensor size and also marginally higher resolution, 50 MP vs 36 MP on DSLRs, a 17% (linear) advantage in MP.

    Clearly, it is a relevant question to ask weather a 44x33 mm sensor on the Credo combined with the available lenses will offer significant benefits over 36 MP DSLRs.
    What is your preferred crop/ composition Erik?

    A 36MP 3:2 image cropped down to 4:3 gives a lot less than 50MP

    A 50MP 4:3 image cropped down to 3:2 still gives more than 36MP

    A square crop? Still more pixels in the MF image...linear or not...

    This is just one argument out of many that can be defended or discarded till the cows come home. I'm not trying to convince you to invest in a new MF system or a back. If 35mm suits your style/ needs/ wants/ wishes, budget/ vision etc. etc. then more power to you! Others might have different views that's all I am saying...
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Frank Doorhof was one of the beta testers of the Credo 50 and his given it a fairly good workout. He's just published a user review


    Warning: there are no MTF charts and no UTT targets involved in the article!

    Enjoy!
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Hi Doug,

    I checked the MTF curves you have posted for the 110/2.8 LS and compared with the Otus 55/1.4. The MTF data is presented differently 15/30/60 lp/mm for the 110/2.8 LS and at 10/20/40 lp/mm for the Otus.

    Taking the format difference into account, it would be adequate to compare the 20 lp/mm curve on the Otus with the 15 lp/mm curve on the LS. I would say the lenses are close. So these lenses would give similar results in the plane of focus with the Otus on a 50 MP DSLR (that is not available) and 50 MP MFD with 44x33 mm sensor size.

    So based on the MTF alone data I would expect IQ-250 (etc) outperform a 36 MP 135 system using Otus by a slight margin.

    I am by the way aware of Hassy lenses being old designs. That said I have seen bokeh fringing also on Leica S lenses. I am aware of about three lenses that have no bokeh fringing, the Coastal Optics 60 Macro, the Otus 55/1.4 and the Voigtländer Apo Lanthar 125/2.5 SL. I don't know about the LS 110/2.8, although the look of the MTF curves may indicate that it has some lateral chromatic aberration, as tangential and sagittal curves separate. By the looks it is lateral chroma, easily fixed in postprocessing.

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    The Zeiss lenses for the Hassy 400 are quite old. What's surprising about them is they are still pretty decent, especially when stopped down, and they have a nice look (even if the technical performance is not perfect). But they have not been the benchmark for image quality in medium format lenses for a long time.

    If you'd like to make a comparison to something more recent, like the Schneider LS and Phase One D lenses our office is always open to you.

    Using a lens like a 110LS/2.8 might well change your mind on this.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Frank Doorhof was one of the beta testers of the Credo 50 and his given it a fairly good workout. He's just published a user review


    Warning: there are no MTF charts and no UTT targets involved in the article!

    Enjoy!
    Thanks for posting. I really do not like camera / lens tests taken out of the context of photography. I mean they are useful up to a point but most people actually use photo gear to make images of more than just charts. I like the way Frank explains things. very cool.

    It is not all about resolution figures. The look and feel of the lens and sensor combination is important to a lot of people.

    Regarding the Zeiss Otus lenses. Yes, they are superb lenses and test well but since they lack AF they are not that useful in real world use for people photography since most if not all DSLRs are really ill equipped for manual focusing. The Leica S might be the exception with the awesome split prism screen. Mirorless cameras like Fuji's X-T1 have nice focusing assist features though.

    If you are a resolution junkie and want to absolutely obliterate a D810/A7R in resolution then get your hands on a 60 or 80MP phase/leaf back and some rodenstock HR-W lenses and take a few images of a cityscape in decent light. When you open the images in C1 and zoom in you will say holy crap Ive been shooting through a coke bottle all these years. :P
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Frank Doorhof was one of the beta testers of the Credo 50 and his given it a fairly good workout. He's just published a user review


    Warning: there are no MTF charts and no UTT targets involved in the article!

    Enjoy!
    ... and no cat or dog photos?!? What kind of review is that?!
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    With CMOS sensors MF gear can now be almost as versatile as a DSLR. This is new, and opens up for a mass market, if Phase One would desire to go in that direction. Probably the camera body lacks mass-market appeal still though, if skilled pros complain about it then it's probably not too good in the hands of an amateur.

    Skin tones are amazing for the back, according to the review. I guess that's the first time I hear that from a MF shooter about a CMOS sensor, well maybe someone said that about IQ250 too, don't know. They were always said to suck on the smaller formats anyway. I can't avoid thinking that it may be bias more than real, but still CMOS seems to be here to stay in MF. I wonder how many CCD backs there will be in five years?

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    With CMOS sensors MF gear can now be almost as versatile as a DSLR. This is new, and opens up for a mass market, if Phase One would desire to go in that direction. Probably the camera body lacks mass-market appeal still though, if skilled pros complain about it then it's probably not too good in the hands of an amateur.

    Skin tones are amazing for the back, according to the review. I guess that's the first time I hear that from a MF shooter about a CMOS sensor, well maybe someone said that about IQ250 too, don't know. They were always said to suck on the smaller formats anyway. I can't avoid thinking that it may be bias more than real, but still CMOS seems to be here to stay in MF. I wonder how many CCD backs there will be in five years?
    I think CMOS can serve to make the transition to MFD a bit more appealing to a broader audience. Plus, it has to have some versatility appeal to those with a fortune already sunk into systems components.

    High end pricing for (most) MFD systems is always a consideration, but there has always been a market segment where price is either less important or no object, (Leica proves that with every new product introduction).

    As to CCD, I'm still in the camp that prefers CCD sensors in MFD cameras (and Leica Rangefinders). After studying the Leaf progressive ISO sampler, I detect the same waxy digital signature that I don't particularity care for … and it gets progressively more pronounced as the ISO increases. Although, the size of the files may make that less noticeable in real world use.

    Personally, I'm old school when it comes to applications … horses for courses. I use MFD in studio and on location when the light is good, or with high sync strobe lighting. Anything I may do that requires high levels of versatility usually includes the need for lightening quick AF and a variety of fast aperture zoom lenses, which remain weak points for MFD.

    - Marc

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    We need a second (and possibly 3rd) camera/back for our studio and am very seriously considering this back (Credo-50).
    We already use and love our Credo80. We feel that either 2 Credo40's or 1 Credo50 will help our workflow nicely.
    The main reasons we want the Credo50 is three things:
    Real LIVE VIEW, Real LIVE VIEW, and most importantly...Real LIVE VIEW

    Yes, I can get real LV from Canon dslr's, but not resolution, lenses, and file quality that my clients expect.
    Yes, I can get many (but not all) of the Credo50 features with the Pentax 645z but I am having serious difficulties finding one to demo. That means I would also have serious difficulties with support for the Pentax. So thats a deal breaker. I don't expect them to be available at my neighborhood Samy's, but come on!
    The PhaseOne IQ250 delivers but as a studio product shooter, I would rather pocket the $8K or so. Why would I need focus mask when I have real Live View?
    So that just leaves the option of two Credo40's for about the same as one Credo50...but not "real" LiveView...just a kind of noisy sketchy fuzzy 1.5fps reasonable facsimile of real Live View that is barely adequate for anything other than "oh it looks like our product is somewhere near the position in the layout, lets shoot a dozen composition-mode shots until we get it"...kindve thing (forget about using it for focus)....but, we'd have two of them and I really like redundancy...I really like redundancy

    Tough decision, am excited to get my hands on the demo next week.
    Any thoughts on what any of you guys would do given that choice?

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    I recently purchased a Credo 50 so thought I would chime in. I also own an IQ 180 and can comment on differences. Live view, live view, live view...... if you use it then this is a no brainer. No more disto's or HPF rings needed. A small loupe is all I use and I'm dead on. Do you want to tilt or swing? This back can show you where you are at in about 30 seconds. My dealer was very competitive in pricing and also actually talked me out of buying the Phase version. I don't use focus masks as I have never found them to be very useful or accurate. I don't need or use WIFI so the price difference between the Phase back and Credo 50 was fairly significant. Most important to me was the final file that I would print. I almost always print to 40 inches and didn't want to give up any quality compared to my IQ180. My final test was shooting a detailed image that included fine foliage and architectural elevations. I changed my shooting position with the IQ 180 to compensate for the crop factor of the Credo 50. I then chose a section of the images that included very fine detail and applied my usual workflow and printed crops of both at 40 inches. The only way I could see ANY difference was to use a 10X loupe and even then the differences were a dot here or there. For me it was worth every penny of my purchase price...... you gotta just use it to believe it...

    Victor
    Last edited by vjbelle; 1st November 2014 at 01:02.
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    I should add that shooting at ISO up to 1600 produces an extremely good file equally as good as a Nikon 800. I actually used my Alpa as a walk around with a 35XL shooting at ISO 1600..... a very liberating experience. All of this, of course, is common to any this series chip. I originally started this out with my dealer wanting to purchase the Hassy version of this back. I did as much research as I could regarding the live view of the Hassy version and the only mention I could find on the net was that the frame rate was about 1/3rd of the Phase/Credo versions. For me, that was enough to eliminate the Hassy.

    About the only thing I would have liked to have seen on any of the Phase/Credo versions is 1/2 stop ISO settings. Should be very simple and would offer that added exposure flexibility without compromising image quality. Probably could be done with a firmware update.

    Victor

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Thanks, Victor!
    Yes, all my research points to Credo50 as being the way to go for our studio.
    The Credo80 will be kept for certain things like art repro and billboards, but someday, am hoping even that will be handled by the Credo50. We shall see.

    Have you ever tried tethering to C1 and projecting the live view onto your computer monitor or large screen? That is going to be our gold standard test.
    We do that, not just for ourselves, but for the stylists and set builders and art directors also in the room.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    I did tether once to my MBPR just to see if everything would shake hands..... I remember vaguely being impressed and am fairly sure that the live view was very fast and very clear. I'm in Ireland now on a shoot with it so no chance to connect. Back next week and will look again..... I would think that it is the same as the Phase versions of the back. Be sure to check with CI for pricing.....

    Victor

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Folks I did a review on this back in the review section. Love it if your folks added more data to that as its a nice reference thread for folks looking at it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Hi Guy,
    Will do, as soon as I get my hands on the thing and have a chance to eval for myself and studio.
    I forgot to add that it was also really hard to get this demo, as I tried for 2-3 months, I cried to Leaf, dealers, ....etc. and finally had to say get me the camera now or someone else will get the sale!
    Very frustrating, but I guess it's in demand.
    I tell you what, if I called my local Honda dealer and said " I have $30K right here and need a car now" ....the car would be in my hands before I finished the sentence!

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Folks I did a review on this back in the review section. Love it if your folks added more data to that as its a nice reference thread for folks looking at it.
    Guy......I cross posted also in that review section.

    Victor

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I am calm too, but I use whisky.
    Whiskey surely, Will? If you want a smooth, triple-distilled tipple, that little 'e' is vital!

    Ray

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    Unhappy Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    Hi Guy,
    Will do, as soon as I get my hands on the thing and have a chance to eval for myself and studio.
    I forgot to add that it was also really hard to get this demo, as I tried for 2-3 months, I cried to Leaf, dealers, ....etc. and finally had to say get me the camera now or someone else will get the sale!
    Very frustrating, but I guess it's in demand.
    I tell you what, if I called my local Honda dealer and said " I have $30K right here and need a car now" ....the car would be in my hands before I finished the sentence!
    Wish I knew that , I can probably get one in your hands quicker. If you need help let me know.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Egor and Victor thanks for posting in the Credo review. It's very important to get all comments in a section where it stays up on the forum a long time. Those reviews really help people make informed decisions. Which is what we all want.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    I would really love to see a studio test of this back vs the CCD credos to see skintone rendering under flash.

    If anyone has the opportunity to do so, that would be wonderful.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by synn View Post
    I would really love to see a studio test of this back vs the CCD credos to see skintone rendering under flash.

    If anyone has the opportunity to do so, that would be wonderful.
    That was one test I wanted to do but did not have the CCD back at the same time.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Should'a swung by Singapore, Guy! I'd have lent my credo 40 in a second!

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    I will have the opportunity to do that test. I will compare against my Credo 80
    Turns out that I STILL won't be getting a Credo50 from my dealer tomorrow! He said they (somehow) already are letting someone else demo it...so now they are going to send me a IQ250 to demo.
    I have been waiting so long and my need is so great that I didn't want to say no, but it's really frustrating. Besides, the IQ250 is pretty much the same thing, so should be a good test.
    Anyways, another dealer south of me just said he is going to drive up here with a Credo50 for me to demo at the same time. So if he actually shows up then I will have a comparison between credo50, IQ250, and Credo80.
    Problem is, am so swamped with work I won't have much time to "play", just a quick primer and then put them right to work shooting shoes and art, but hey, at least I am finally getting to demo the darn thing.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    I would love to see that test. I am interested in the comparison of the credos as I prefer Leaf's color profiles to phase's.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Here is a link to an ISO Sweep Comparison we did between the Phase One IQ250 and Credo 50.

    Files

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Thanks for the files, Lance. I don't have C1P8 yet, so can't open the Credo 50 files, but comparing the full res JPG to the IQ 150 RAW file, it looks like the credo has that classic Leaf "Punch" to it. Would be very interested to see how this translates to portraits; especially in comparison to the CCD backs.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Received cameras (both) today to demo.
    Initial impression is good, but some hiccups:
    Live View only works using USB connection, and no way to white balance in LV.
    These are minor things but I was really hoping for better LV. Still a little noisy, but miles ahead of the CCD backs!

    file quality is excellent for our porpoises. No real difference between IQ and Credo I can figure yet. More when I get the chance. Shot art with it today and my studio manager did most of the evaluation as I am buried under a literal mountain of post on multi-layered files that exceed 4-10 GB's in size. (They wanted big, they pay for big, they get big

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    There actually maybe some settings for LV. Maybe one of the dealers can chime in. I had something on my Phase IQ 160
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Hi Guy,
    I don't think so, but could be wrong. I spoke to dealers and researched (albeit briefly), and those two factors were confirmed. They did say that a fix may come down the line for the WB during LV thwartage.
    Also, I haven't researched yet, but we were having difficulty shooting while in LV. I hope that's just a lack of knowledge on my part.
    Focus assist in C1-v8 was a delightful surprise, I like it more than focus mask only in the IQ.
    We are a very "large screen projection" dependent studio, having pioneered many of the implementations of the techniques for our clients over 10 years ago. (Just in time for my doctor telling me the warranty on my eyesight had expired

    I will try and cross post this info on your review site. Just going in for round two today, I wish I could dedicate a whole day or more to testing but it's just not in the cards for me.
    Absolutely buried here. I really appreciate the review you did, Guy. It is a ton of work, I know!

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    Hi Guy,
    I don't think so, but could be wrong. I spoke to dealers and researched (albeit briefly), and those two factors were confirmed. They did say that a fix may come down the line for the WB during LV thwartage.
    Also, I haven't researched yet, but we were having difficulty shooting while in LV. I hope that's just a lack of knowledge on my part.
    Focus assist in C1-v8 was a delightful surprise, I like it more than focus mask only in the IQ.
    We are a very "large screen projection" dependent studio, having pioneered many of the implementations of the techniques for our clients over 10 years ago. (Just in time for my doctor telling me the warranty on my eyesight had expired

    I will try and cross post this info on your review site. Just going in for round two today, I wish I could dedicate a whole day or more to testing but it's just not in the cards for me.
    Absolutely buried here. I really appreciate the review you did, Guy. It is a ton of work, I know!

    On the IQ150/250 and Leaf Credo 5o, Live View is USB 3 only, not firewire (not fast enough to handle it, currently).


    Steve Hendrix
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    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
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  37. #87
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    Hi Guy,
    I don't think so, but could be wrong. I spoke to dealers and researched (albeit briefly), and those two factors were confirmed. They did say that a fix may come down the line for the WB during LV thwartage.
    Also, I haven't researched yet, but we were having difficulty shooting while in LV. I hope that's just a lack of knowledge on my part.
    Focus assist in C1-v8 was a delightful surprise, I like it more than focus mask only in the IQ.
    We are a very "large screen projection" dependent studio, having pioneered many of the implementations of the techniques for our clients over 10 years ago. (Just in time for my doctor telling me the warranty on my eyesight had expired

    I will try and cross post this info on your review site. Just going in for round two today, I wish I could dedicate a whole day or more to testing but it's just not in the cards for me.
    Absolutely buried here. I really appreciate the review you did, Guy. It is a ton of work, I know!
    First thanks for the compliment , yes they are hard to do and also do correctly without any bias either way. My goal always when doing them is give as clear a picture of what one may consider a purchase and at these price categories you never want to steer people wrong. I do like the Credo 50 and I'm actually quite surprised that I do because I had a bias ( negative that is to CMOS) but that was 35mm , this is a far different ball game.

    As far as live view I'm sure we will see firmware updates going forward. Phase/ Leaf have been pretty good on improving there products. I wish Sony would take a clue here.

    Keep us posted as time permits, your type of work is great info to backs like these since everything is very controlled in your shooting environment .

    Hey if you ever need a shooter to help out in the studio, call me . Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Cross posted, read here down:

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/digital-...tml#post609399

    Short answer: Credo 50 and IQ250 are awesome and we are buying at least one for our studio. Will completely replace CCD backs, in our business, in very short order.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_cor View Post
    Doug,
    Is the operating temperature range another difference?

    IQ series:



    Leaf Credo: 0°–40°C (32°–104°F)
    Humidity: 15%–80% (non-condensing)



    Thanks,

    Steve.
    None of the experts addressed this question yet! From the spec it is obvious that there is a difference, however in reality, materials for both the bodies looks very identical [except Credo 50 doesn't have any buttons].

    Subrata
    Last edited by subrata1965; 12th March 2015 at 13:11.

  40. #90
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by subrata1965 View Post
    None of the experts addressed this question yet!
    Subrata
    Please check the datasheets on IQ2 series digital backs | Specifications, IQ series digital backs | Specifications and Leaf Credo Medium Format Digital Backs
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    That is easy, but can you please explain technically what are the components determines temperature ratings of MFDB and why there is a difference between Credo 50 vs IQ150?

    Subrata

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    As the data sheets in the provided links suggest, there is no difference...all Credo and IQ models are rated to 40c.
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Thanks Yair.

    My bad. After careful reading, what I see is that there is different temperature tolerance limit for CMOS & CCD based backs. Within CMOS, there is no temperature tolerance difference between Credo 50 & IQ150/250.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    It's funny having now owned 3 different Phase backs I am surprised to see the 32 F degree spec on low end. Phase has shown at least one video where they took a P45 from a freezer so that was below freezing.

    In my work I have often gone way below 32. And in the summer I feel the back easily can exceed 104. If I am out on a 95 degree day in Arkansas the back will get over 104 degrees. The back is black thus absorbs heat. During the summer I tend to turn the back off quite often to help keep the temp down.

    I would say however those published specs are very conservative and that surprises me.

    Paul

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    It's funny having now owned 3 different Phase backs I am surprised to see the 32 F degree spec on low end. Phase has shown at least one video where they took a P45 from a freezer so that was below freezing.

    In my work I have often gone way below 32. And in the summer I feel the back easily can exceed 104. If I am out on a 95 degree day in Arkansas the back will get over 104 degrees. The back is black thus absorbs heat. During the summer I tend to turn the back off quite often to help keep the temp down.

    I would say however those published specs are very conservative and that surprises me.

    Paul
    Having been hiking all winter with a Credo 50 here in NH and battling 20 degree F or below temps, I can say that from my hands on experience, it doesn't seem to be all that bad. Definitely not unusable. As always, it's the batteries that suck in cold temps. I summitted Mt. Tecumseh last weekend and was swapping batteries from armpit to camera every two minutes or so. Stupid chemistry...science needs to match my hopes/dreams! Hah!
    Chris Valites
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Doug, will this credo come in Hy6 mount? considering DHW just went belly up?

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    The Credo 50 does not come in the AFi/Hy6 mount. Only the 60 and 80 do.
    Chris Valites
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    Doug, will this credo come in Hy6 mount? considering DHW just went belly up?

    I had a conversation with Leaf - before the Credo 50 announcement - about offering the Credo 40 in a Hy6 interface. I felt that there was a lot of enthusiasm for the Hy6 camera system/lenses but often our requests were for Aptus models, mostly because of price. Hence, the Credo 40 thought. It would have been considered, but only if adequate projected numbers were involved. And - ultimately the necessary numbers didn't materialize, so, no Credo 40 AFi.

    Probably a moot point for now.

    We retain a Hy6 system at our Atlanta office for testing and troubleshooting for our AFi/Hy6 customers - as it stands, Credo 60 and Credo 80 are still offered in Hy6 interface.


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