Mamiya Leaf announces the New Leaf Credo 50

[Ken_R]

Frank Doorhof was one of the beta testers of the Credo 50 and his given it a fairly good workout. He's just published a user review


Warning: there are no MTF charts and no UTT targets involved in the article!

Enjoy!

Thanks for posting. I really do not like camera / lens tests taken out of the context of photography. I mean they are useful up to a point but most people actually use photo gear to make images of more than just charts. I like the way Frank explains things. very cool.

It is not all about resolution figures. The look and feel of the lens and sensor combination is important to a lot of people.

Regarding the Zeiss Otus lenses. Yes, they are superb lenses and test well but since they lack AF they are not that useful in real world use for people photography since most if not all DSLRs are really ill equipped for manual focusing. The Leica S might be the exception with the awesome split prism screen. Mirorless cameras like Fuji's X-T1 have nice focusing assist features though.

If you are a resolution junkie and want to absolutely obliterate a D810/A7R in resolution then get your hands on a 60 or 80MP phase/leaf back and some rodenstock HR-W lenses and take a few images of a cityscape in decent light. When you open the images in C1 and zoom in you will say holy crap Ive been shooting through a coke bottle all these years.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Frank Doorhof was one of the beta testers of the Credo 50 and his given it a fairly good workout. He's just published a user review


Warning: there are no MTF charts and no UTT targets involved in the article!

Enjoy!

... and no cat or dog photos?!? What kind of review is that?! :loco: :ROTFL:

 

[torger]

With CMOS sensors MF gear can now be almost as versatile as a DSLR. This is new, and opens up for a mass market, if Phase One would desire to go in that direction. Probably the camera body lacks mass-market appeal still though, if skilled pros complain about it then it's probably not too good in the hands of an amateur.

Skin tones are amazing for the back, according to the review. I guess that's the first time I hear that from a MF shooter about a CMOS sensor, well maybe someone said that about IQ250 too, don't know. They were always said to suck on the smaller formats anyway. I can't avoid thinking that it may be bias more than real, but still CMOS seems to be here to stay in MF. I wonder how many CCD backs there will be in five years?

 

[fotografz]

With CMOS sensors MF gear can now be almost as versatile as a DSLR. This is new, and opens up for a mass market, if Phase One would desire to go in that direction. Probably the camera body lacks mass-market appeal still though, if skilled pros complain about it then it's probably not too good in the hands of an amateur.

Skin tones are amazing for the back, according to the review. I guess that's the first time I hear that from a MF shooter about a CMOS sensor, well maybe someone said that about IQ250 too, don't know. They were always said to suck on the smaller formats anyway. I can't avoid thinking that it may be bias more than real, but still CMOS seems to be here to stay in MF. I wonder how many CCD backs there will be in five years?

I think CMOS can serve to make the transition to MFD a bit more appealing to a broader audience. Plus, it has to have some versatility appeal to those with a fortune already sunk into systems components.

High end pricing for (most) MFD systems is always a consideration, but there has always been a market segment where price is either less important or no object, (Leica proves that with every new product introduction).

As to CCD, I'm still in the camp that prefers CCD sensors in MFD cameras (and Leica Rangefinders). After studying the Leaf progressive ISO sampler, I detect the same waxy digital signature that I don't particularity care for … and it gets progressively more pronounced as the ISO increases. Although, the size of the files may make that less noticeable in real world use.

Personally, I'm old school when it comes to applications … horses for courses. I use MFD in studio and on location when the light is good, or with high sync strobe lighting. Anything I may do that requires high levels of versatility usually includes the need for lightening quick AF and a variety of fast aperture zoom lenses, which remain weak points for MFD.

- Marc

 

[Egor]

We need a second (and possibly 3rd) camera/back for our studio and am very seriously considering this back (Credo-50).
We already use and love our Credo80. We feel that either 2 Credo40's or 1 Credo50 will help our workflow nicely.
The main reasons we want the Credo50 is three things:
Real LIVE VIEW, Real LIVE VIEW, and most importantly...Real LIVE VIEW

Yes, I can get real LV from Canon dslr's, but not resolution, lenses, and file quality that my clients expect.
Yes, I can get many (but not all) of the Credo50 features with the Pentax 645z but I am having serious difficulties finding one to demo. That means I would also have serious difficulties with support for the Pentax. So thats a deal breaker. I don't expect them to be available at my neighborhood Samy's, but come on!
The PhaseOne IQ250 delivers but as a studio product shooter, I would rather pocket the $8K or so. Why would I need focus mask when I have real Live View?
So that just leaves the option of two Credo40's for about the same as one Credo50...but not "real" LiveView...just a kind of noisy sketchy fuzzy 1.5fps reasonable facsimile of real Live View that is barely adequate for anything other than "oh it looks like our product is somewhere near the position in the layout, lets shoot a dozen composition-mode shots until we get it"...kindve thing (forget about using it for focus)....but, we'd have two of them and I really like redundancy...I really like redundancy

Tough decision, am excited to get my hands on the demo next week.
Any thoughts on what any of you guys would do given that choice?

 

[vjbelle]

I recently purchased a Credo 50 so thought I would chime in. I also own an IQ 180 and can comment on differences. Live view, live view, live view...... if you use it then this is a no brainer. No more disto's or HPF rings needed. A small loupe is all I use and I'm dead on. Do you want to tilt or swing? This back can show you where you are at in about 30 seconds. My dealer was very competitive in pricing and also actually talked me out of buying the Phase version. I don't use focus masks as I have never found them to be very useful or accurate. I don't need or use WIFI so the price difference between the Phase back and Credo 50 was fairly significant. Most important to me was the final file that I would print. I almost always print to 40 inches and didn't want to give up any quality compared to my IQ180. My final test was shooting a detailed image that included fine foliage and architectural elevations. I changed my shooting position with the IQ 180 to compensate for the crop factor of the Credo 50. I then chose a section of the images that included very fine detail and applied my usual workflow and printed crops of both at 40 inches. The only way I could see ANY difference was to use a 10X loupe and even then the differences were a dot here or there. For me it was worth every penny of my purchase price...... you gotta just use it to believe it...

Victor

 

[vjbelle]

I should add that shooting at ISO up to 1600 produces an extremely good file equally as good as a Nikon 800. I actually used my Alpa as a walk around with a 35XL shooting at ISO 1600..... a very liberating experience. All of this, of course, is common to any this series chip. I originally started this out with my dealer wanting to purchase the Hassy version of this back. I did as much research as I could regarding the live view of the Hassy version and the only mention I could find on the net was that the frame rate was about 1/3rd of the Phase/Credo versions. For me, that was enough to eliminate the Hassy.

About the only thing I would have liked to have seen on any of the Phase/Credo versions is 1/2 stop ISO settings. Should be very simple and would offer that added exposure flexibility without compromising image quality. Probably could be done with a firmware update.

Victor

 

[Egor]

Thanks, Victor!
Yes, all my research points to Credo50 as being the way to go for our studio.
The Credo80 will be kept for certain things like art repro and billboards, but someday, am hoping even that will be handled by the Credo50. We shall see.

Have you ever tried tethering to C1 and projecting the live view onto your computer monitor or large screen? That is going to be our gold standard test.
We do that, not just for ourselves, but for the stylists and set builders and art directors also in the room.

 

[vjbelle]

I did tether once to my MBPR just to see if everything would shake hands..... I remember vaguely being impressed and am fairly sure that the live view was very fast and very clear. I'm in Ireland now on a shoot with it so no chance to connect. Back next week and will look again..... I would think that it is the same as the Phase versions of the back. Be sure to check with CI for pricing.....

Victor

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Folks I did a review on this back in the review section. Love it if your folks added more data to that as its a nice reference thread for folks looking at it.

 

[Egor]

Hi Guy,
Will do, as soon as I get my hands on the thing and have a chance to eval for myself and studio.
I forgot to add that it was also really hard to get this demo, as I tried for 2-3 months, I cried to Leaf, dealers, ....etc. and finally had to say get me the camera now or someone else will get the sale!
Very frustrating, but I guess it's in demand.
I tell you what, if I called my local Honda dealer and said " I have $30K right here and need a car now" ....the car would be in my hands before I finished the sentence!

 

[vjbelle]

Folks I did a review on this back in the review section. Love it if your folks added more data to that as its a nice reference thread for folks looking at it.

Guy......I cross posted also in that review section.

Victor

 

[ondebanks]

I am calm too, but I use whisky.

Whiskey surely, Will? If you want a smooth, triple-distilled tipple, that little 'e' is vital!

Ray

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Hi Guy,
Will do, as soon as I get my hands on the thing and have a chance to eval for myself and studio.
I forgot to add that it was also really hard to get this demo, as I tried for 2-3 months, I cried to Leaf, dealers, ....etc. and finally had to say get me the camera now or someone else will get the sale!
Very frustrating, but I guess it's in demand.
I tell you what, if I called my local Honda dealer and said " I have $30K right here and need a car now" ....the car would be in my hands before I finished the sentence!

Wish I knew that , I can probably get one in your hands quicker. If you need help let me know.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Egor and Victor thanks for posting in the Credo review. It's very important to get all comments in a section where it stays up on the forum a long time. Those reviews really help people make informed decisions. Which is what we all want.

 

[synn]

I would really love to see a studio test of this back vs the CCD credos to see skintone rendering under flash.

If anyone has the opportunity to do so, that would be wonderful.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I would really love to see a studio test of this back vs the CCD credos to see skintone rendering under flash.

If anyone has the opportunity to do so, that would be wonderful.

That was one test I wanted to do but did not have the CCD back at the same time.

 

[synn]

Should'a swung by Singapore, Guy! I'd have lent my credo 40 in a second!

 

[Egor]

I will have the opportunity to do that test. I will compare against my Credo 80
Turns out that I STILL won't be getting a Credo50 from my dealer tomorrow! He said they (somehow) already are letting someone else demo it...so now they are going to send me a IQ250 to demo.
I have been waiting so long and my need is so great that I didn't want to say no, but it's really frustrating. Besides, the IQ250 is pretty much the same thing, so should be a good test.
Anyways, another dealer south of me just said he is going to drive up here with a Credo50 for me to demo at the same time. So if he actually shows up then I will have a comparison between credo50, IQ250, and Credo80.
Problem is, am so swamped with work I won't have much time to "play", just a quick primer and then put them right to work shooting shoes and art, but hey, at least I am finally getting to demo the darn thing.

 

[synn]

I would love to see that test. I am interested in the comparison of the credos as I prefer Leaf's color profiles to phase's.