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Thread: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Hot off the press!

    ALPA of Switzerland - Manufacturers of remarkable cameras - Photokina 2014

    *Shifting adaption on FPS Camera for Contax, Hasselblad H, Rollei lenses.
    *XY Update details
    *Bellows Adaption for FPS
    *Updated Syncing Solutions


    Steve Hendrix
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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    The choice of either the built in leaf shutter of the H lenses or the Alpa FPS will be very helpful with longer lenses..... and the H lenses from my experiences were very capable at their tasks.

    Victor

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    The choice of either the built in leaf shutter of the H lenses or the Alpa FPS will be very helpful with longer lenses..... and the H lenses from my experiences were very capable at their tasks.

    Victor

    Indeed.

    A very cool camera platform is turning into an even more versatile system. Can't wait to get those adapters in here.



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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Ok. So which H lenses do I need to scoop up off Ebay before the prices go up because of this?

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Where are those CMOS-friendly, yellow-banded ultra wide angle lenses (just like the new 90HR)? Should such announcements exist, are they going to be announced by Rodenstock / Schneider instead of Alpa?

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Ok. So which H lenses do I need to scoop up off Ebay before the prices go up because of this?

    For you - that's a good question Gerald, you shoot amazing wides already, and I haven't seen any telephoto wildlife shots!


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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Cool stuff
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Ok. So which H lenses do I need to scoop up off Ebay before the prices go up because of this?

    I don't think you need to worry on prices Gerald, there's (sadly) too few FPS owners out there, as yet, to 'move the market'.

    The question remains a good one - which Rollei/Hassy/Contax lenses are capable of:

    (a) meeting top shelf MF digital resolution and aberration standards
    (b) being shifted with those exciting new shift adapters

    Most legacy lenses that seemed excellent in their day show their weakness' when married to a high end MF sensor. The Hassy H ones are made for digital now, so I'd be more hopeful about those being up to snuff, than Contax 645 (which is what I used to own, and have a fondness for, but...)
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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    I don't think you need to worry on prices Gerald, there's (sadly) too few FPS owners out there, as yet, to 'move the market'.

    The question remains a good one - which Rollei/Hassy/Contax lenses are capable of:

    (a) meeting top shelf MF digital resolution and aberration standards
    (b) being shifted with those exciting new shift adapters

    Most legacy lenses that seemed excellent in their day show their weakness' when married to a high end MF sensor. The Hassy H ones are made for digital now, so I'd be more hopeful about those being up to snuff, than Contax 645 (which is what I used to own, and have a fondness for, but...)
    There's the other school of thought that likes the look of some these lenses even though they may not technically be up to the perfect demands of the sensors. Either way, it's nice to have options.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this also mean that when you use an FPS on a MAX as shutter unit, you will get 18+12mm = 30mm of cross, and 25+12mm of rise with the new adapters?

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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Alpa FPS MAX TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    From the images on the Alpa website, it would appear that the combo has to be lens > adapter > FPS.

    To maintain infinity focus I don't think lens > adapter > FPS > Max would work with any of the Hasselblad H or Contax lenses the shift adapter is designed to work with, since the lenses aren't available in short mount versions ( la Alpa's SB34 -> SB17 lens mount) to account for the extra depth of the Max.

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    I use the Contax 35 already with the FPS and I can tell you it's a superb lens close to the very high standards of the 32HR which I also own.
    The advantage of the Contax is that it can shift on the FPS on a full frame sensor it's 6mm after that corners falls apart. I use the Contax for my retail interiors where I don't need a lot of shift with the benefits of electronic shutters the 32HR shines where more shift or a combo of shift and left / right movement is needed s.a. architecture.
    I can't speak for other lenses in the contax line up but the 35mm is very sharp and I really like the look of the files. I never understood the strong following of the Contax MF system until I used this lens
    Highly recommended
    In regards the the previous post : this adapter can't be used in conjunction with the Max and FPS, neither would you need it because the adapter provides the shift already , the max would just be an oversized spacer. In any case focusing to infinity is out of the questions if if connect the Max to the FPS
    The shortest lens in the Alpa lens line up is the Rodenstock 50HR SHortbarrel 34 it allows for 5 mm of movement before the protruding lens in the back hits the interior chamber of the FPS.
    Grischa

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this also mean that when you use an FPS on a MAX as shutter unit, you will get 18+12mm = 30mm of cross, and 25+12mm of rise with the new adapters?
    Ok, Yes, my bad. It goes lens to Max To FPS to back, with a mini adapter in there somewhere. So the new adapters will not add to the Max's range.

    However, these FPS shifting adapters show that it is possible to engineer that, and with electronic coupling. Surely a regular SB adapter with shift must be planned, adding to possible shift/stitch capability of Max, STC and SW.

    Fingers crossed!

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    I don't see that these adapters could be used with another camera such as the Max in the chain.

    Even ignoring flange distance and infinity focusing, there's no way to pass the electrical signals through the second camera.

    Kind regards,

    Gerald.

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Agreed, but what I'm now saying is that a regular non-FPS shifting adapter must be possible (if they can build one WITH electronic coupling, then they can build one WITHOUT electronic coupling!) so you can put your SB lens onto a Max or STC or even just a TC, and use a shifting adapter at the back, instead of the regular plain adapter, to get more mm rise/fall or cross shift. Or have 2 thinner shifting adapters, one behind the lens, one between body and back to combine the effects in different directions.

    We do have tilting adapters after all, so a shifting one as well seems easily possible. Hope they announce/plan to make those!

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Saw these adapters today.

    I mentioned in the relevant thread that I was also impressed with the new Arca modular solution similar in functionality to the FPS. It is very cool.

    But, it was interesting to see how far ahead Alpa are when it comes to the FPS. These new adapters, with the ability of the FPS to control both focussing and the leaf shutter of the lenses (in combination with control of the focal plane shutter of the FPS itself) opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

    With regards narikin's observation - yes, clearly it would be possible to create a lens adapter that provides shift movements (the new adapters are +/-12 mm on both axes BTW), but I can't see them doing that as it would surely canibalize sales of the 12-series cameras that offer shifts?

    Kind regards,

    Gerald.

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    As far as I understand the H lenses are designed to be used together with digital correction in software, or else you will have residual chromatic abberations. AFAIK Phocus uses EXIF data including focus distance as input to the lens correction algorithm. I guess when using H lenses with these adapters you can't apply lens corrections. I don't know how dependent on lens corrections the H lenses are though for good results. Usually wide angle lenses need more correction than longer ones.

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Saw these adapters today.

    I mentioned in the relevant thread that I was also impressed with the new Arca modular solution similar in functionality to the FPS. It is very cool.

    But, it was interesting to see how far ahead Alpa are when it comes to the FPS. These new adapters, with the ability of the FPS to control both focussing and the leaf shutter of the lenses (in combination with control of the focal plane shutter of the FPS itself) opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

    With regards narikin's observation - yes, clearly it would be possible to create a lens adapter that provides shift movements (the new adapters are +/-12 mm on both axes BTW), but I can't see them doing that as it would surely canibalize sales of the 12-series cameras that offer shifts?

    Kind regards,

    Gerald.
    Interesting to hear Gerald. I presume you mean in both directions simultaneously? thats pretty impressive.

    I see your point about a non FPS shifting adapter, but don't think they'll cannibalize Max/STC sales - more likely an STC owner would buy an adapter to get Rise with Cross at same time, a Max owner would buy one to gain more cross/ rise from that camera. You also don't seem to think that this FPS shifting adapter cannibalizes STC or MAX sales, so why would it do that to non FPS cameras?

    Also a release of non-FPS shift adapters would make Alpa jump off that somewhat biased chart Digital Transitions put together to promote the brand of Tech cameras they sell (not Alpa!). and put it far ahead as a leader in potential movements.

    I have all the Alpa bodies I want*, but would buy an SB Shift adapter that extended my range and potential for substantially bigger movements & stitches, in a heartbeat.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    * although... the Phase/Alpa 'A series' means I reserve the right to break this promise

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Excuse my ignorance on this one, with these new adapters is it either rise/fall or shift left/right?

    It is not possible to do a combination of both is it?

    Ok, thanks so much..

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by wallpaperviking View Post
    Excuse my ignorance on this one, with these new adapters is it either rise/fall or shift left/right?

    It is not possible to do a combination of both is it?

    Ok, thanks so much..
    Both at once.

    Kind regards,

    Gerald.

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Wow! That is awesome then..

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Realized I've been a bit stupid over this, these shifting adapters are for the Hassy and Contax lenses only. They are not going to be able to shift any regular SB Alpa lenses on an FPS body, like a Roddy 50mm or SK 60mm, which is a big shame.

    Kind of surprised that a simpler FPS shifting product has not been developed, as most folks would rather use their existing pricey tech cam lens investment, than Hassy or Contax, on the FPS.

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    Realized I've been a bit stupid over this, these shifting adapters are for the Hassy and Contax lenses only. They are not going to be able to shift any regular SB Alpa lenses on an FPS body, like a Roddy 50mm or SK 60mm, which is a big shame.

    Kind of surprised that a simpler FPS shifting product has not been developed, as most folks would rather use their existing pricey tech cam lens investment, than Hassy or Contax, on the FPS.
    I think you're being a bit hard on yourself there, but the solution surely is "just" to use a Max if you want to shift SB34's?

    If ALPA did bring out a dual-axis shift adapter for the FPS to use with the SB34's, then it would need to either be 11mm deep (like the cameras) or 17mm deep.

    The problem is, if it were the former, it would basically be a new camera. A Max Compact if you like to think of it that way. And if that existed, it would certainly cannibalize Max sales.

    I can however see how a 17mm deep adapter would make sense. For those new to ALPA and only considering the FPS, it would be a great addition to the kit.

    The bottom line though, is that they already offer a solution for your requirements, so probably want you go buy a Max (which I heartily recommend because it is such an awesome camera!).

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Thanks Gerald, but I already own a Max, and an STC, and a TC, and an FPS. So I have plenty invested!

    The Max is a great camera but heavy and unsuited for backpacking and location work away from a vehicle. The STC is good, but single axis only. So neither fulfills the same role as an FPS with shifting on 2 axis. Plus there are good reasons why you might want and need a Focal Plane Shutter on your work, than a Copal one.

    Alpa themselves clearly recognise this, and have released a complicated adapter to shift 3rd party lenses with the FPS. Why they don't release one for their own SB lenses is what puzzles me? A tech lens in SB is superior to nearly all DSLR options, plus Alpa sells those lenses, so would profit from it, rather than a buyer going to Hasselblad or eBay. All a bit odd business practice, but hopefully a simplified SB17 shifting adapter will be released in time.
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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Aha! I can see the missing piece.

    You need to use the XY in this scenario

    Kind regards,

    Gerald

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Just realised they have announced the FPS shift adapter for Contax, Hassy and Rollei lenses, but not for Mamiya/Phase. Have I missed something, or is that a gap in the adapter line-up? On the other hand maybe it is being saved for the 'Alliance'?

    I was checking as I wondered about using that lovely Schneider-Phase tilt-shift lens on the FPS!

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    Just realised they have announced the FPS shift adapter for Contax, Hassy and Rollei lenses, but not for Mamiya/Phase. Have I missed something, or is that a gap in the adapter line-up? On the other hand maybe it is being saved for the 'Alliance'?

    I was checking as I wondered about using that lovely Schneider-Phase tilt-shift lens on the FPS!

    You can already mount the 120mm TS via the standard Mamiya FPS Adapter (also takes any Mamiya manual control, manual aperture lenses). For additional lens adapters (for modern lenses that require electronic interfaces) new versions remain to be seen, as these typically (and ideally) involve some cooperation.

    In our little part of the world - photography - when we think, boy, that would be great, why don't they just do that? There are usually many complex issues why that exist beneath the surface.


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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    My guess is that the tie-up with Phase One has been in the works for some time.

    No sense in spending R&D money to reverse engineer the lens/camera comms if (big if, mind) an agreement was in place to share that openly.

    That's my guess, anyway!

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

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    Re: Alpa (Real) Photokina news 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    You can already mount the 120mm TS via the standard Mamiya FPS Adapter (also takes any Mamiya manual control, manual aperture lenses).
    Yes but the point was to have a shift adapter, like they have announced for Hassy, Rollei and Contax 645, but for Phase One/Mamiya lenses. Kind of strange they have not done that.

    Put the 120mm TS Schneider lens on that, and you get shift on the lens plus shift on the adapter, and voila: MAX FPS!

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