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Thread: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

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    Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Not sure this has been posted, but looks like Hassy has just announced a V-series back:

    CFV-50c


    CMOS, 50 Mpixels (8272×6200 pixels)
    • 43.8 × 32.9 mm 5.3 x 5.3 чm
    • RAW 3FR capture 65 MB on average. Tiff 8 bit 154 MB
    • 1.5 s/capture. 35 captures/min (based on a SanDisk Extreme UDMA7 120MB/s)
    • ISO 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200 and 6400
    • 12 minutes (max exposure time)
    • Rechargeable Li-ion battery 8.4 VDC
    • Support for DAC for Carl Zeiss lenses included in Phocus
    • TFT 3”
    • Mechanical shutters controlled via flash sync, electronic shutters controlled by Phocus.
    • FireWire 800 (IEEE1394b)
    • SonyTM InfoLithium L, up to 8 hours of shooting capacity
    • 530 g (Excluding battery and CF card)


    Is this really similar specs to an IQ150 at 50% of the price? All I would need is a V-mount plate for my tech cam! I must be missing something....

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    They announced it back in mid-July I believe.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    I must have completely missed it. Pricing for P1 just looks silly now, at least this is somewhat in the ballpark at 2x the Pentax. Only thing working against the Pentax is being able to stick it on a tech cam.

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Thanks guys, totally missed it. But price point is promising for the future.

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    I must have completely missed it. Pricing for P1 just looks silly now, at least this is somewhat in the ballpark at 2x the Pentax. Only thing working against the Pentax is being able to stick it on a tech cam.
    Yeah... Phase prices would look even more silly if Hasselblad released an updated dual focal plane H and/or V cameras.

    Everyone's prices would look silly if Pentax released a line of Leaf Shutter lenses for the 645D/Z cameras.
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Price point for the previous CFV-50 was also low compared to the H system (or any other digital back). I think the idea is that the CFV should sell to amateurs and artists, as the V system is practically dead in the "working pro" customer segment. You can't use the CFV on an H system which means that they can have separate pricing. What they've done is to repackage the technology from H5D-50c into CFV-50c, which takes minimal development effort, and then sell it at a "low" price.

    Having the same price as H5D-50c would probably be too much for too many of the V users, so it would not sell in any numbers. The lower price gives it a chance.

    The low CFV prices is also interesting for tech cameras users, it's the best price/performance back you can get, and now it has live view in the back. Unfortunately the Sony CMOS sensor don't work well with wide angles. It would have been nice if they had kept the CCD version and updated it with new screen, a "CFV-50 II", the CCD was excellent on tech wides so it would have been a great tech cam option at a great price compared to the competition (no live view on the CCD though of course).

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quick question:

    Will the CFV-50c work on a H5D-50c body?

    If not why not?

    Thanks.
    pbase.com/dorigatti

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by dorigatti View Post
    Quick question:

    Will the CFV-50c work on a H5D-50c body?

    If not why not?

    Thanks.
    No

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by dorigatti View Post
    Quick question:

    Will the CFV-50c work on a H5D-50c body?

    If not why not?

    Thanks.
    CFV50c has a V series mount to accommodate the 200, 500, 900, SWC and Flex body cameras.

    H5D50c has an H series mount for all Hx and HxD cameras.
    The designs are entirely different.
    Paul Claesson
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    Hasselblad Bron Inc.

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    The low CFV prices is also interesting for tech cameras users, it's the best price/performance back you can get, and now it has live view in the back. Unfortunately the Sony CMOS sensor don't work well with wide angles. It would have been nice if they had kept the CCD version and updated it with new screen, a "CFV-50 II", the CCD was excellent on tech wides so it would have been a great tech cam option at a great price compared to the competition (no live view on the CCD though of course).

    For sure, for tech cams, it's a no brainer, with the exception of WA lenses. Curious as to whether the on-back live view update that was released this week on the H series is also available on the v-series. If it is, then its definitely a contender on tech-cams. With more solutions coming available with Arca and Alpa for using lenses like the TSE24, WA workarounds are readily available.

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Yes, live view has / is being enabled via a firmware update. Good news! Like Torger says, it's a real pity this back isn't great on tech cameras. It'd be perfect for use on my Techno if it played well with wides.
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    "All new features (except Wi-Fi) will be available to H5D-50c and CFV-50c owners as a firmware upgrade shortly after the photokina trade show event."

    So live view is coming which is really great news. Now the question is what is the LCD screen resolution of CFV-50c?

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by yongfei View Post
    "All new features (except Wi-Fi) will be available to H5D-50c and CFV-50c owners as a firmware upgrade shortly after the photokina trade show event."

    So live view is coming which is really great news. Now the question is what is the LCD screen resolution of CFV-50c?
    I *think* it's the same as the one introduced in the H4D series and is still left in H5D, which is 3" 420x360 pixels I think, ie not exactly state of the art. However, retina resolution is not really necessary to make a screen useful for live view. More important is that the screen has good light and high contrast, and that the live view implementation render well at 100%, that edges look sharp when in focus etc. I have no personal experience with those screens so I don't know how these are, but I do know that my old Aptus back with a lowly 320x240 pixel screen can still show if something is sharp, thanks to good implementation of the 100% view.

    High resolution is really only needed to be able to show a reasonable crop when zoomed to 100%, if very low resolution screen and very high resolution sensor the crop gets unpractically small. The digital back is too small anyway to fit a screen to give as good overview like a computer screen does, regardless of resolution.

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    I would think that the LCD should be up to par with what's on the H5D but it would great if it was even better. LCD screens should be a low cost item. This really is very exciting and a complete no brainer for me as long as it works on an Alpa.

    Victor
    Last edited by vjbelle; 19th September 2014 at 12:06.

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    I shot Hassy commercially for 15+ years and loved the V system except when digital entered the market. I made the switch to an RZ DII + Phase One. It is now time for me to consider this Hassy option.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Unfortunately the Sony CMOS sensor don't work well with wide angles.
    I'm glad I'm not in the camp the needs really wide..... I am thinking that my Schneider 60mm, which is about as wide as I need, should perform well with the Sony CMOS..... at least I hope so.

    Victor

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I'm glad I'm not in the camp the needs really wide..... I am thinking that my Schneider 60mm, which is about as wide as I need, should perform well with the Sony CMOS..... at least I hope so.

    Victor
    60XL was included in our Phase One IQ250 Tech Camera Testing.

    IQ150, IQ250, and Mamiya Leaf Credo 50 will all have the same performance in this regard.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    I received it today. Images soon
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by aeaemd View Post
    I received it today. Images soon
    Jealous! Looking forward to hearing some real world reviews. Did it come preloaded with the firmware that enables live view?

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    i also looked at the pack at photokina but it was not possible to test it accurate.
    i'm very exciting about your experienece with this system. please share it soon because i also want to order it ��

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    The firmware update was not loaded yet. It is coming soon

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    So far the only way I would touch this would be after seeing live view in the back. It doesn't have to be as good as Phase but it has to be a monster step up from my IQ180. If it looks good then I'm in.....

    Victor

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    60XL was included in our Phase One IQ250 Tech Camera Testing.

    IQ150, IQ250, and Mamiya Leaf Credo 50 will all have the same performance in this regard.
    Thanks for posting..... Your testing didn't say what a 'significant shift' was for artifacts showing up with the 60mm XL. I keep my shifts to 10mm or less so maybe I could just get by. It would be one of the the issues to resolve before parting with any real money.

    Victor

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Thanks for posting..... Your testing didn't say what a 'significant shift' was for artifacts showing up with the 60mm XL. I keep my shifts to 10mm or less so maybe I could just get by. It would be one of the the issues to resolve before parting with any real money.
    The acceptance of crosstalk is a subjective matter so it's not easy to say for sure, as discussed in the Cambo Actus thread:
    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-f...tal-backs.html

    As I discuss there you should have a safe 70mm image circle on the 60mm XL, outside that you may depending on scene start to see serious loss in color fidelity. Shifting the 44x33 mm sensor 10mm on the 60XL should not be a problem (you will then use 70mm image circle), but I'd try the combination to make sure if it's important for you.

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Are you safe with the Rodie 32mm HR or is that going to be problematic ?

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    I think the Rodie 32mm works just ok, particularly considering how expensive it is and that you're paying for an image circle that you can't make anywhere near the most of. Someone may correct me if I'm wrong...

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Thanks for posting..... Your testing didn't say what a 'significant shift' was for artifacts showing up with the 60mm XL. I keep my shifts to 10mm or less so maybe I could just get by. It would be one of the the issues to resolve before parting with any real money.

    Victor
    That's correct. We provided an image circle we thought was a reasonable assement of maximum usable image circle. But we more so relied on potential users downloading the stitched and labeled JPGs and making their own assessment as to what was acceptable and what was not - everyone's threshold is different. I'd be glad to discuss further with you when I'm at the office on Monday if you'd like.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by miska View Post
    Are you safe with the Rodie 32mm HR or is that going to be problematic ?
    That lens was also covered in our test:
    Phase One IQ250 Tech Cam Testing - DT Blog

    Less usable image circle with a 32HR than with other backs. Whether the amount of usable image circle is acceptable to you is a decision only you can make.

    Also keep in mind our test was done with Capture One's LCC tool which I would consider the leader in widely available commercial raw processors, especially in terms of tech camera usage. So your results with Hassy's Phocus tool may very - you'd need to work with a Hassy dealer who has done extensive tech camera testing to make that determination.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Capture One's LCC tool is indeed very good but any basic implementation makes a great job unless the sensor produces extra artifacts. The Dalsa 6um and smaller pixel sensors produce extra artifacts in the form of tiling and microlens ripple (Dalsa-based 40, 60, and 80 megapixel backs) which normal LCC won't correct, Capture One has good suppression for that (and my own Lumariver HDR if I too may do some sales work... :-) ), which I don't think Phocus or Lightroom has, haven't really tested it recently though so I don't know for sure.

    Fortunately the Sony sensor does not produce any (strong) tiling and no microlens ripple, so I think any basic LCC implementation will do just fine here, but I haven't tested Phocus personally.

    There's one other factor too though, if the file has crosstalk in it the demosaicer may be put out of balance and you get mazing artifacts. Demosaicers that extract a very high amount of detail are generally more unstable and will not tolerate almost any crosstalk, the DCB mosaicer in some open source raw converters is particularly unstable in this case. The demosaicer in Capture One is a nice tradeoff between detail and stability so it can tolerate quite much crosstalk before it breaks down. I have not enough experience with Phocus to know how it behaves, but my guess is that it is too quite stable, becase I think that demosaicers designed for cameras without AA filters (ie all MF cameras) are more stable by nature.

    Long post, but the message is that although I haven't personally tested Phocus with the Sony MF sensor and tech wides I think it's very likely that it will work out just as good/bad as C1, unlike for the Dalsa sensors where I think C1 is better.

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by aeaemd View Post
    I received it today. Images soon
    I can see myself adding one of these to my 503 CXi next year ... Hubba hubba
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    where are the images :-)

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    FWIW I wouldn't consider wasting money on this back for use with V lenses. I've had and still do have numerous V lenses and they are nowhere near capable of keeping up with these new sensors. I recently bought an adapter for my 800e for V lenses and shot with my 60, 80, 120, and 180. The 60 was useless. The 80 just OK. The 120 can only be used for Macro or semi close work and even then just OK. The 180 was just OK. None of these lenses performed anywhere near as well as modern optics. If someone likes how one of these lenses draws or renders then that may be a different story but they aren't for me.....YMMV. A tech camera and modern lenses is a whole different animal!

    Victor

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    yes i supposed that the good old lenses cannot work with such a digipack :-(

    i would be very interested in comparing this digipack with old "analog" lenses and digital schneider or rodenstocks.

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    FWIW I wouldn't consider wasting money on this back for use with V lenses. I've had and still do have numerous V lenses and they are nowhere near capable of keeping up with these new sensors. I recently bought an adapter for my 800e for V lenses and shot with my 60, 80, 120, and 180. The 60 was useless. The 80 just OK. The 120 can only be used for Macro or semi close work and even then just OK. The 180 was just OK. None of these lenses performed anywhere near as well as modern optics. If someone likes how one of these lenses draws or renders then that may be a different story but they aren't for me.....YMMV. A tech camera and modern lenses is a whole different animal!

    Victor
    The images you made with your 800e + Hassy lenses, did you use Phocus to post-process the images? I read Phocus has "Sophisticated lens corrections for H and V system lenses (DAC)" and think that is part of the IQ chain.

    Have you tried using a DB on a 500 series camera body and used Phocus for post-processing? If so, was the result as bad as using the lenses on your 800e?
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    The images you made with your 800e + Hassy lenses, did you use Phocus to post-process the images? I read Phocus has "Sophisticated lens corrections for H and V system lenses (DAC)" and think that is part of the IQ chain.

    Have you tried using a DB on a 500 series camera body and used Phocus for post-processing? If so, was the result as bad as using the lenses on your 800e?
    I did not use Phocus...... the lens corrections you elude to would have to be dramatic to make the 60mm or 120mm work properly on an 800 series camera. Maybe there would be a better match with a 500 series system. I have various Leica M lenses that were completely useless on an A7r but reportedly performed admirably on an M240.

    The 60mm and 120mm had edges that were completely out of focus..... really out of focus!! Central area was in focus. I didn't shoot much with the 80mm but what I saw seemed to be pretty much OK across the frame. I had expected more from the 180 but it just didn't resolve enough for me..... its a nice focal length on ff 35mm. Also, at that focal length extra precaution must be taken for shutter vibration.

    I started out Digital MF with a V system and Phase P25. As I recall I was never happy with the 60mm and the 120mm was very iffy at infinity..... but this is from memory going back almost 10 years. I am now strictly a tech camera shooter or occasionally my 800e but only with certain lenses. Am awaiting the next iteration of the A7r.......

    Victor

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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I did not use Phocus...... the lens corrections you elude to would have to be dramatic to make the 60mm or 120mm work properly on an 800 series camera. Maybe there would be a better match with a 500 series system. I have various Leica M lenses that were completely useless on an A7r but reportedly performed admirably on an M240.

    The 60mm and 120mm had edges that were completely out of focus..... really out of focus!! Central area was in focus. I didn't shoot much with the 80mm but what I saw seemed to be pretty much OK across the frame. I had expected more from the 180 but it just didn't resolve enough for me..... its a nice focal length on ff 35mm. Also, at that focal length extra precaution must be taken for shutter vibration.

    I started out Digital MF with a V system and Phase P25. As I recall I was never happy with the 60mm and the 120mm was very iffy at infinity..... but this is from memory going back almost 10 years. I am now strictly a tech camera shooter or occasionally my 800e but only with certain lenses. Am awaiting the next iteration of the A7r.......

    Victor
    Thanks Victor.

    I am eying the CFV-50C back and interested in hearing about others experience using the 500 system and lenses with DB backs. I have been using a P45 with an ALPA MAX + Schneider lenses, and also with a RZ IID for studio portrait work. I am thinking it may be time for me to make an upgrade to a newer back and may reinvest in a 500 system again (third time ). I am a patient buyer so excuse my investigative questions.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    I dug up some images from a China trip (2005) I took with a P25 and 503 with SWC, 60mm, 80mm, 120mm, 180mm (I never cull but should!) As I look across various images they're good for the time but nothing like modern day stuff. Corner smearing is a common issue with most lenses. I'm truly spoiled by the Digitar's on an STC - corner to corner, edge to edge perfection even when shifted..... f11 or bust!

    Good luck with your quest.....

    Victor
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    any more samples pics available ?
    http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/r...03_669691.html

    with planar 80mm analog or other lenses ( rodenstock hr ...)
    [ no picture ]
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    here's a sample or two: cfv-39, blad 205tcc, 40mm. only a wimpy 39mpx!



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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    another; going back and looking at these again
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    P45+ samples

    Hi,

    Here are some sample P45+ images (up to actual pixels and raw files included):

    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...mages/Samples/
    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...ages/Samples2/
    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...ages/Samples3/

    Here are some samples comparing Hasselblad 555 ELD with my Sony Alpha 99.

    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...MFDB_VS_DSLR2/

    I am shooting 40, 50, 80, 120macro and 180, mostly at f/11

    The DNG files always contain the original raw file, and that can be extracted using the Adobe DNG Converter available here:

    http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...jsp?ftpID=5825

    http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...jsp?ftpID=5824

    Best regards
    Erik
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  43. #43
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Here are some samples comparing Hasselblad 555 ELD with my Sony Alpha 99.
    you compare it with the cfv-50c is it right ?


    sorry..... i see that you compare the P45+ ...
    [ no picture ]

  44. #44
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Hi,

    Yes, P45+.

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by gmfotografie View Post
    you compare it with the cfv-50c is it right ?


    sorry..... i see that you compare the P45+ ...

  45. #45
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Quote Originally Posted by aeaemd View Post
    I received it today. Images soon
    Any updates? How's the back performing?

  46. #46
    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Anybody got the new CFV50-c yet.....?

    Curious, curious.....

  47. #47
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    I've seen samples from the CFV-50c which look great. They were shot with a technical camera and a range of lenses, including the 60XL and 40HR. Unfortunately they were saved as JPG and slightly down sampled. I'd love to see some RAW files.
    Some time ago some very helpful fellow forum members sent me some CFV-50 (CCD) RAW files shot on technical cameras. They were stunning and it was great digging into them using Phocus and processing to my own tastes. I'm looking forward to doing that with some 50c files soon, as for my uses it looks like the best value to money back at the moment, especially with live view enabled via firmware.
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    PS: I'd love to know other peoples thoughts on the older CFV-50 (CCD) compared to the 50c, particularly if they were buying today to use on a tech camera. It's still holding it's value in the used market and considering the 50c can be bought in Japan for $10K USD (or less!), they are much the same price.
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  49. #49
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Saw this back at Photo Plus today:

    1. LV looks pretty good and very useable. I would estimate a 10-12 FPS. You can zoom in and focus as well.
    2. Screen is not as good as the IQ series, but still quite nice.
    3. Back is much smaller than IQ, Aptus Credo etc.
    4. Battery is external, similar to Aptus.
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  50. #50
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    Re: Hassy CFV-50C - Under the radar?

    Great! Thanks for the info, really appreciate it. For the price, I'm very, very interested in this back. I only worry about colour performance when using the Rodenstock 40HR. I don't need massive movements, but 12mm in either orientation would be adequate.

    For those that stitch, how useable is this back do you think? If I want to replicate the format of my 6x12 Linhof negs, is it way too limited?

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