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Thread: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

  1. #1
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    There seems to be a lot of interest about Hasselblad V-series with the arrival of the new CV50c back.

    I have some samples shot with my Hasselblad 555ELD and my P45+ back with several Hasselblad lenses. There are three shots from each f/4, f/8 and f/16. THe intention was to find strength and weaknesses from each.

    The lenses were:

    Distagon 40/4 CF FLE (not the newest IF variant)
    Diastgon 50/4 CF FLE
    Planar 80/2.8 CFE
    Macro Planar 120/4 CFi

    I have also a Planar 180/4 CFi that is not included as I ran out of distance. But that one is a very good lens.

    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...ernardSamples/

    All images available at actual pixels and also in raw.

    I would mention some points:

    • These images were shot using manual focusing
    • I feel that some lenses may perform better in this test than in real life
    • There are some very good lenses I don't own, like Distagon 40/4 IF, and
      the Planar 100/3.5.
    • The Macro Planar 120/4 is intended for close up work, where it performs very well, but it suffers in this test that is shot at infinity.
    • There is a Macro Apo Planar 120/4 for the Contax 645, but that is an entirely different lens, having two extra lenses and a floating group to compensate field curvature at different focusing distances. So the Contax lens is a completely different animal.


    Best regards
    Erik
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  2. #2
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    A sample taken with the 180/4 has been posted here:
    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...Samples/180_4/

    The spider is a crop from the larger image.

    I will also add a page with 'problem shots'.

    Best regards
    Erik

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Thank you Erik!
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    I have the newer 40 IF and shoot it with Credo 60. I do not have any 'testshots' but if anybody is considering this combination, feel free to ask for specific setups (zeroed, movements, tilts) and I can shoot that and send rawfiles for scrutiny!
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com
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  5. #5
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    I have also added some problem shots. I don't know the exact lenses or conditions as the EXIF data doesn't contain info from the lens.

    The problem areas are marked in red. Some reference areas that are good are marked in green.

    At the time the images were shot I felt these problems were pretty bad, but looking now I feel they are much less an issue than originally thought.

    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...amples/Issues/

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    A sample taken with the 180/4 has been posted here:
    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...Samples/180_4/

    The spider is a crop from the larger image.

    I will also add a page with 'problem shots'.

    Best regards
    Erik

  6. #6
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Aliasing and Moiré

    Hi,

    I may point out that I have seen a lot of aliasing and moiré on my P45+ shots. This depends in part on me using Lightroom. Phase One's own Capture One is very good at suppressing colour aliasing artefacts, even if it does not eliminate them all the way.

    Stopping down to f/16 seems to remove all aliasing problems, obviously by reducing resolution (*) so much that aliasing is not any longer a problem.

    What I want to mention is that the sensor in the new CMOS back in all probability has gapless microlenses which much reduce aliasing. This was very much visible in Doug Peterson's library shots, with the IQ-250 having much less aliasing compared to the IQ-260 and the IQ-280. The probable reason is that the gapless microlenses increase the fill factor enough to act like a very mild OLP filter. A small fill factor increases perceived sharpness as a small feature is either detected or not while a larger sensor area can detect a detail weakly. I have problems finding a good source, but I am pretty sure that the new CMOS sensors may be less prone to moiré.

    I have added two aliasing samples, with problem areas marked in red. I feel that the indicated areas on the skin jacket may have aliasing. Small areas that have texture within areas lacking structure. It doesn't look very nice in print. These problems may be less pronounced on CFV50C, in part due to the higher resolution but also because the microlenses.

    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...sues/Aliasing/

    (*) More correctly MTF at the pixel level.
    (**) Some discussion here: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/in...ixels-are-good

    Best regards
    Erik
    Last edited by ErikKaffehr; 7th October 2014 at 14:30.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    So far I have not seen anything that has changed my mind about possibly moving back to a V system (replacing my RZ IID) and going to a CFV50C.

    Thank you again Erik; I appreciate your effort and sharing your lovely pictures!

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

  8. #8
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    Thanks for the kind words!

    I would mention a couple of things:

    • Hopefully you have noticed that the CFV50C would have some issues with some wide angles on a technical camera. In case you are interested in technical cameras.
    • The Canon T&S lenses are actually usable with the CFV50 on a Hartblei HCam or an Alpa FPS.
    • When I bought my P45+ the seller recommended the 555ELD model, that was the last generation of the 555 and it is made for digital work. Tighter tolerances and some integration with Phase backs. But the CFV50 is supposed to work with most (all?) bodies.
    • Focusing is not easy. I have a PM5 viewfinder with a custom made ocular. I also have a Zeiss 3X mocular, that gives 9X total magnification on my PM5, but doesn't work with my custom ocular :-(.
    • Mirror pre release is a must.


    You can check this: My medium format digital journey

    I will probably do a follow up article after having used the system for 15 months. I am certainly "warming up" to it.

    Best regards
    Erik
    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    So far I have not seen anything that has changed my mind about possibly moving back to a V system (replacing my RZ IID) and going to a CFV50C.

    Thank you again Erik; I appreciate your effort and sharing your lovely pictures!

    Kind regards,
    Darr

  9. #9
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    If you start on a voyage into MFD, I wish you best of luck. I would think that the Hasselblad V-route is a realistic one. It would also be possible to mount a digital back on your RZ IID.

    One thing to consider is that the CFV50 has a small sensor, so it essentially has a crop factor. My P45+ has a crop factor of 1.1X but the CFV50C would be 1.3X. With the P45 my Distagon 40/4 is like something 24/28 mm on 135, it seems I can live with that.

    Phase One backs also work Hasselblad V, but need sync cable from lens to back. The Hasselblad backs don't need this. It may be that Leaf doesn't need a sync cable either.

    If crop factor is important to you, these other options may be interesting.

    A nice thing with V-stuff that used equipment in good shape is available at low price and good quantity. I bought my stuff from a small company called ClassicCamera here in Sweden, the owner is very nice to work with.

    In the year I had the camera I had a repair, and it was around 100€, a spring in the aperture mechanism was replaced on the 120/4 macro.

    I also looked at some of your pictures, very nice, I guess some of them were taken on Iceland?

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    So far I have not seen anything that has changed my mind about possibly moving back to a V system (replacing my RZ IID) and going to a CFV50C.

    Thank you again Erik; I appreciate your effort and sharing your lovely pictures!

    Kind regards,
    Darr

  10. #10
    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Erik,

    I have been shooting MF digital for a few years. I use a P45 with an ALPA Max, Schneider lenses and also with the RZ DII for portraiture. I sold my Arca Swiss ML2 that I initially used with the P45 as I slowly made my way through the film to digital transition. I am trained as a commercial photographer (food, product, portraiture) from the days of 4x5" transparencies. I am semi-retired, but work still finds me.

    I starting shooting with the Hasselblad V system in the early 80's, but gave it up when I went digital, thus the RZ IID entered my studio. When it came to digital, the V system at the time was not meeting my needs. I am also interested in the CMOS back and do understand the technical reasons one needs to consider when using it with wide lenses. I do not shoot a lot of landscapes with my MF system, but do use a 28XL that I do not shift with (the reason I went so wide was so I did not have to shift).

    BTW, focusing is an issue with the RZ + P45 as well. I use the Mamiya focusing magnifier with the prismfinder, but choose to shoot tethered in the studio for critical work. My guess is there is something amiss when we bolt on a digital back to the older film cameras. I am hoping the CFV50C has been designed to closer match the camera body.

    I appreciate all the resources you have provided me with!

    Kind regards,
    Darr

    PS: Yes, some of my photos posted are from Iceland, but there are so many more that I just have not had time to process. I am working in the year 2006 currently in my catalog! Thank you for the compliment.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    If you start on a voyage into MFD, I wish you best of luck. I would think that the Hasselblad V-route is a realistic one. It would also be possible to mount a digital back on your RZ IID.

    One thing to consider is that the CFV50 has a small sensor, so it essentially has a crop factor. My P45+ has a crop factor of 1.1X but the CFV50C would be 1.3X. With the P45 my Distagon 40/4 is like something 24/28 mm on 135, it seems I can live with that.

    Phase One backs also work Hasselblad V, but need sync cable from lens to back. The Hasselblad backs don't need this. It may be that Leaf doesn't need a sync cable either.

    If crop factor is important to you, these other options may be interesting.

    A nice thing with V-stuff that used equipment in good shape is available at low price and good quantity. I bought my stuff from a small company called ClassicCamera here in Sweden, the owner is very nice to work with.

    In the year I had the camera I had a repair, and it was around 100€, a spring in the aperture mechanism was replaced on the 120/4 macro.

    I also looked at some of your pictures, very nice, I guess some of them were taken on Iceland?

    Best regards
    Erik
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

  11. #11
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    Erik,

    I have been shooting MF digital for a few years. I use a P45 with an ALPA Max, Schneider lenses and also with the RZ DII for portraiture. I sold my Arca Swiss ML2 that I initially used with the P45 as I slowly made my way through the film to digital transition. I am trained as a commercial photographer (food, product, portraiture) from the days of 4x5" transparencies. I am semi-retired, but work still finds me.

    I starting shooting with the Hasselblad V system in the early 80's, but gave it up when I went digital, thus the RZ IID entered my studio. When it came to digital, the V system at the time was not meeting my needs. I am also interested in the CMOS back and do understand the technical reasons one needs to consider when using it with wide lenses. I do not shoot a lot of landscapes with my MF system, but do use a 28XL that I do not shift with (the reason I went so wide was so I did not have to shift).

    BTW, focusing is an issue with the RZ + P45 as well. I use the Mamiya focusing magnifier with the prismfinder, but choose to shoot tethered in the studio for critical work. My guess is there is something amiss when we bolt on a digital back to the older film cameras. I am hoping the CFV50C has been designed to closer match the camera body.

    I appreciate all the resources you have provided me with!

    Kind regards,
    Darr

    PS: Yes, some of my photos posted are from Iceland, but there are so many more that I just have not had time to process. I am working in the year 2006 currently in my catalog! Thank you for the compliment.

    When mounting digital backs onto (especially) legacy cameras, many things come into play with regard to focus accuracy.

    If you think in terms of the sum of all possible tolerances, there's a long list. And the more items in the list, the more potential for tolerance deviation (after all, they add up). The objective of course is to be able to look through the viewfinder, obtain focus, and that exact focus point you've acquired in the viewfinder will also be represented in the final image. But that list of infractions would include:

    *Digital back sensor position
    *Machining of digital back mounting interface
    *Machining of camera rear mount interface
    *Position of ground glass
    *Position of mirror module
    *Front camera bayonet mount for lenses
    *The rear mounting bayonet of every lens
    *The position of all optics in every lens


    Did that scare everyone? Don't be scared. The best bet is to first perform a focus test with your digital back on your camera body with each lens. In many cases, the focus accuracy is acceptable (remember, perfection doesn't exist). In the instance where there is focus inaccuracy, if the various lenses produce variable results, you can be pretty sure some or all the lenses need to be re-conditioned back to factory spec. This is a good first step - though I don't recommend doing it unless you determine there is an actual issue (I've had some clients who are buying a digital back ask if they should send in all their lenses before they receive the digital back). With all lenses at spec, that drastically reduces or isolates any other potential issues with the camera body or digital back.

    In any case, the issue is resolvable - and that is the important bottom line.

    Although I did not mention one other variable, which is, guess - the eyesight of the user. That needs to be taken into account as well.

    And if live view is in play, as is becoming more the case, this removes many of the obstacles, since you are seeing exactly what the chip sees. It does not completely absolve user eyesight, though....


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar • Authorized Reseller

  12. #12
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for chiming in, your input is always appreciated! I absolutely agree with the parameters you listed.

    We are discussing Hasselblad V here, so we don't have auto focus, so I am pretty sure lens tolerances do not affect focusing. Lens centering and alignment is a different issue. So, alignment on back, sensor, mirror focusing screen and bayonet matters a lot. Tolerances on the Hasselblad V are 30 microns (AFAIK) and on Phase 1 backs 12 microns.

    The approach taken by Hasselblad HDX/XX, Pentax and Leica make a lot of sense. The sensor and camera are seen as a single aligned unit.

    Regarding live view, I would suggest that magnified live view is needed for accurate focus and that essentially eliminates eye sight as a parameter, if you have something like normal vision with corrective lenses and large enough magnification.

    Focus shift may play a role, though. With spherical aberration present, cutting peripheral rays by stopping down shifts best focus. So focusing at maximum aperture and stopping down may shift focus. But my guess is that this is a minor issue on MFD lenses.

    Just to mention, with the Hasselblad 555ELD I see mirror lock up to be essential, I don't get usable pictures without MLU.

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    When mounting digital backs onto (especially) legacy cameras, many things come into play with regard to focus accuracy.

    If you think in terms of the sum of all possible tolerances, there's a long list. And the more items in the list, the more potential for tolerance deviation (after all, they add up). The objective of course is to be able to look through the viewfinder, obtain focus, and that exact focus point you've acquired in the viewfinder will also be represented in the final image. But that list of infractions would include:

    *Digital back sensor position
    *Machining of digital back mounting interface
    *Machining of camera rear mount interface
    *Position of ground glass
    *Position of mirror module
    *Front camera bayonet mount for lenses
    *The rear mounting bayonet of every lens
    *The position of all optics in every lens


    Did that scare everyone? Don't be scared. The best bet is to first perform a focus test with your digital back on your camera body with each lens. In many cases, the focus accuracy is acceptable (remember, perfection doesn't exist). In the instance where there is focus inaccuracy, if the various lenses produce variable results, you can be pretty sure some or all the lenses need to be re-conditioned back to factory spec. This is a good first step - though I don't recommend doing it unless you determine there is an actual issue (I've had some clients who are buying a digital back ask if they should send in all their lenses before they receive the digital back). With all lenses at spec, that drastically reduces or isolates any other potential issues with the camera body or digital back.

    In any case, the issue is resolvable - and that is the important bottom line.

    Although I did not mention one other variable, which is, guess - the eyesight of the user. That needs to be taken into account as well.

    And if live view is in play, as is becoming more the case, this removes many of the obstacles, since you are seeing exactly what the chip sees. It does not completely absolve user eyesight, though....


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration

  13. #13
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi Darr,

    Funny enough, I was also visiting Iceland 2006. If you see a guy with a Konica-Minolta 7D in your pictures it could have been me :-)

    I want to go get back to Iceland again…

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    Erik,

    PS: Yes, some of my photos posted are from Iceland, but there are so many more that I just have not had time to process. I am working in the year 2006 currently in my catalog! Thank you for the compliment.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for chiming in, your input is always appreciated! I absolutely agree with the parameters you listed.

    We are discussing Hasselblad V here, so we don't have auto focus, so I am pretty sure lens tolerances do not affect focusing. Lens centering and alignment is a different issue. So, alignment on back, sensor, mirror focusing screen and bayonet matters a lot. Tolerances on the Hasselblad V are 30 microns (AFAIK) and on Phase 1 backs 12 microns.

    The approach taken by Hasselblad HDX/XX, Pentax and Leica make a lot of sense. The sensor and camera are seen as a single aligned unit.

    Regarding live view, I would suggest that magnified live view is needed for accurate focus and that essentially eliminates eye sight as a parameter, if you have something like normal vision with corrective lenses and large enough magnification.

    Focus shift may play a role, though. With spherical aberration present, cutting peripheral rays by stopping down shifts best focus. So focusing at maximum aperture and stopping down may shift focus. But my guess is that this is a minor issue on MFD lenses.

    Just to mention, with the Hasselblad 555ELD I see mirror lock up to be essential, I don't get usable pictures without MLU.

    Best regards
    Erik

    Yes, but all the components are dependent.

    If you have 2 lenses and one is out of spec, then how would you know if your ground glass/mirror assembly is in correct position?


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar • Authorized Reseller

  15. #15
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    If we assume that we can focus correctly we either lens than we can also focus correctly with the other lens. As only the alignment of sensor/mirror/focusing screen matters for focusing. We focus on the screen, and that is not moved in relation to sensor by changing lens.

    If the focusing screen is correctly aligned to the sensor, any lens that is focused on that focusing screen will also focus correctly on the sensor.

    Infinity focus stop may be decalibrated, of course, and it may also be that a lens is not able to achieve correct focusing, due to tolerances.

    With autofocus the lens is involved in focusing, so individual with lenses calibration may be needed. It is not very obvious while.

    It may of course be the case that a lens is not perpendicular to sensor, but in that case it would not be able to achieve good sharpness in all four corners.

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Yes, but all the components are dependent.

    If you have 2 lenses and one is out of spec, then how would you know if your ground glass/mirror assembly is in correct position?


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration

  16. #16
    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi Darr,

    Funny enough, I was also visiting Iceland 2006. If you see a guy with a Konica-Minolta 7D in your pictures it could have been me :-)

    I want to go get back to Iceland again…

    Best regards
    Erik

    So that was YOU!

    I too hope to return to Iceland. I have family that are native Norwegians and plan on visiting them on my next Iceland trip as well.

    Thank you again for all your assistance.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

  17. #17
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    If we assume that we can focus correctly we either lens than we can also focus correctly with the other lens. As only the alignment of sensor/mirror/focusing screen matters for focusing. We focus on the screen, and that is not moved in relation to sensor by changing lens.

    If the focusing screen is correctly aligned to the sensor, any lens that is focused on that focusing screen will also focus correctly on the sensor.

    Infinity focus stop may be decalibrated, of course, and it may also be that a lens is not able to achieve correct focusing, due to tolerances.

    With autofocus the lens is involved in focusing, so individual with lenses calibration may be needed. It is not very obvious while.

    It may of course be the case that a lens is not perpendicular to sensor, but in that case it would not be able to achieve good sharpness in all four corners.

    Best regards
    Erik

    You're right, if the ground glass is in proper position, then you could achieve focus on the ground glass with all lenses. But how do you then know if the ground glass is in correct position? And if your ground glass is not in the correct position, then it won't matter if you can focus it on the ground glass, because if the lenses are all different, the resulting images will also display differences. This is why having your lenses at the same spec is also a critical component.


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
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  18. #18
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Have to say after many years shooting the Hassy V and also still having those images in my portfolio and owning just about every piece of gear on it since it was company money spent I bought stuff by the truck load and today I have zero interest in owning any of it today. It was nice gear for the film era but in today's world I really question its value and IQ given the technology we have now. I understand maybe the throw back feelings but for the money spent even cheaply it makes me wonder if its even worth it. Sure a couple nice lenses in the system but the maintence of it in today's world seems hardly worth the time.

    Maybe it's just me so feel free to ignore my comments. I remember all my gear constantly in the shop getting repairs .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  19. #19
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    IQ is not only about resolving power. Bokeh and look can be really good. I've seen more RZ results than V but I'm most impressed by the look when the depth of field is a bit shorter. Still I think nostalgia or economics (or both) are the main reasons why one would want to use a V system. There's some charm in using an old-school camera while not having to mess with film, and that's why Hasselblad keeps making digital backs to an otherwise discontinued system.

  20. #20
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    Thanks for posting. That is definitively an issue. Experience may of course vary. I had my stuff for 15 months now, so it is not much of experience.

    I had a repair, but that was an 100€ issue resolved in 48 (*) hours, much better than the battle that Anders Torger had with Leaf costing him like 3000€ and better part of the year. Scared me a bit off Leaf…

    My take on the issue is that it seems that there are quite a few repair facilities for Hasselblad, but they are not for ever. So that is something anyone buying into V-series should consider.

    Just to put things in perspective, I had a single repair on my Minolta/Sony stuff in 44 years. I don't abuse my tools, but I had water pouring out of my cameras and lenses a couple of times. Been lucky, of course, I know…

    The great ting with the V-system is that all stuff is available at low cost. I have paid something like 15 k$ US for my full kit, Hasselblad 555ELD, P45+ back and five lenses.

    (*) Automatic aperture was lost on my Macro Planar 120/4 CF, I was a bit unfortunate that this happened in the spring season, when I am shooting much macro, so I decided to upgrade my 120/4 CF to a 120/4 CFi instead for 250€ (250 $US or so), as I knew from Zeiss that it would be a much improved lens. Of the 250€ something like 70 € was repair cost. After asking back my dealer told me that repair costs were 100€ so I sent him an additional 30€. My dealer sent my the lens before I returned the old one that was still working, so I was not without a working macro lens for a second.


    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Have to say after many years shooting the Hassy V and also still having those images in my portfolio and owning just about every piece of gear on it since it was company money spent I bought stuff by the truck load and today I have zero interest in owning any of it today. It was nice gear for the film era but in today's world I really question its value and IQ given the technology we have now. I understand maybe the throw back feelings but for the money spent even cheaply it makes me wonder if its even worth it. Sure a couple nice lenses in the system but the maintence of it in today's world seems hardly worth the time.

    Maybe it's just me so feel free to ignore my comments. I remember all my gear constantly in the shop getting repairs .

  21. #21
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi Anders,

    I second that. I find I use my Hasselblad a bit more than my Sony Alpha 99, and it depends in part on having some fun using old gear.

    Regarding bokeh, the Sony may be a better choice. It has circular aperture and much less axial chroma. But the P45+ has more pixels and it does deliver on sharpness when the stars are well aligned. Also, weaknesses are often more seen in the "lab" than in the "wild", lab conditions are more critical.

    The way things are now, if I feel that I probably nailed the shot with the Hasselblad I don't shoot with the Sony. But I always carry the Sony. It is sort of the tool that I rely on.

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    IQ is not only about resolving power. Bokeh and look can be really good. I've seen more RZ results than V but I'm most impressed by the look when the depth of field is a bit shorter. Still I think nostalgia or economics (or both) are the main reasons why one would want to use a V system. There's some charm in using an old-school camera while not having to mess with film, and that's why Hasselblad keeps making digital backs to an otherwise discontinued system.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    About my Leaf issue; repairing digital backs are generally expensive, so Leaf is not odd there. I had an issue with the back being unreliable rather than dead (and continued to be unreliable after e-box replacement) and that combined with the not-so-great dealer structure here in Europe made it a real mess. It eventually sorted out though, but it cost me a lot of work and time.

    I've got the feeling from my own experience and some other reports seen here that the Aptus series had some sample-to-sample variations in terms of reliability, although Leaf themselves has always denied it. The Credo series is of course a whole different design. Anyway the Aptus series is not the number one second hand back I would recommend if you're working in cold weather... my current Aptus back works fine though, even in -30C.

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    Initially I was thinking about a used Hasselblad H-series back with an adapter for V-series lenses. But it was suggested to me that a P45+ back was a better option.

    "Mr. Rib" the guy I was buying from happened to have a P45+ he was quite happy with and could fix a matching Hasselblad V 555/ELD body, so I went with that.

    I have been very happy with the P45+, but I also feel that it was much closer to DxO data and MTF data for the lenses than the hype/myths on the net. So I got what I expected, not less and not more. Lab data is much more reliable than hype on the net!

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    About my Leaf issue; repairing digital backs are generally expensive, so Leaf is not odd there. I had an issue with the back being unreliable rather than dead (and continued to be unreliable after e-box replacement) and that combined with the not-so-great dealer structure here in Europe made it a real mess. It eventually sorted out though, but it cost me a lot of work and time.

    I've got the feeling from my own experience and some other reports seen here that the Aptus series had some sample-to-sample variations in terms of reliability, although Leaf themselves has always denied it. The Credo series is of course a whole different design. Anyway the Aptus series is not the number one second hand back I would recommend if you're working in cold weather... my current Aptus back works fine though, even in -30C.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    It's an interesting discussion, although every photographer has a different way of working, do you feel that reading and understanding lab data makes you a better photographer? I ask because I regularly seek out inspirational imagery and have very little interest in the equipment used, to me a location, a style of photography, light, passion and creativity always always appeals more than charts and lab data, I'm fully accepting of the fact that my views are possibly different to yours, hence the genuine question, do you feel like a better photographer for all the knowledge and discussions? Is that what drives your photography experience?

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    I am not an artist. What I am is engineer having photography as a hobby since 1965. As an engineer, I look at stuff and try to find out what makes sense to me, it is a very strong urge. If I see something I need a rational explanation.

    On the other hand, looking at test cases I can also decide on how to makes best use of my equipment. Questions like?

    • Which aperture will I need with that Macro Planar to get decent edges?
    • What is the best focusing strategy with the Distagon 40/4?
    • How to focus the 80/2.8 Planar for best results?


    Analysing pictures and data and learning from mistakes mean a lot to me.

    On the other hand, I could just use an Iphone or a Sony RX-100 at fraction of the cost of my MFDB and Hasselblad and get very decent results, but why spend 15k$US on equipment if I don't care about making best use of it?

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    It's an interesting discussion, although every photographer has a different way of working, do you feel that reading and understanding lab data makes you a better photographer? I ask because I regularly seek out inspirational imagery and have very little interest in the equipment used, to me a location, a style of photography, light, passion and creativity always always appeals more than charts and lab data, I'm fully accepting of the fact that my views are possibly different to yours, hence the genuine question, do you feel like a better photographer for all the knowledge and discussions? Is that what drives your photography experience?

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    I understand what you are saying, I guess I feel that creativity is about more than using equipment at it's optimum, or searching out equipment that has a level of technical excellence on scales that do not account for feel or style or personality, if that makes sense. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't matter to me what you shoot with, it really doesn't but I read so many repetitive and technical posts that somehow feel to me like they miss the point of an artistic endeavour. Obviously the end goal is enjoyment from your hobby, I guess there are people for whom the technical aspects are more important than the creative?

    I have been following the impossible film story recently, the polaroid experiments are fascinating, not a technical interpretation in site just a large amount of incredibly beautiful images shot with real feeling, obviously theres a load of crap in there too but somehow it feels more inspirational.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Is that what drives your photography experience?
    Interest in photography gear and technical aspects of photography is separate from interest in photography as an art. As it happens it's also easier to talk about, and many people are wired in a way that art is something they feel and not talk about much.

    If you strive to become an artist (which actually not everyone does) you should surely not worry too much about gear. However, knowing the technique is important, and personally I do find it rewarding to shoot an image of high technical quality.

    I would not narrow down to one thing that drives my photography experience. It's many aspects. I would surely not carry around 13 kg of tech camera gear in the mountains if I did not enjoy using that particular gear.
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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    Yes, OK. I have a lot of respect for folks making great images. Ed Hurst is a great example, or Guy Mancuso and any great posters on these forums. I am deeply impressed.

    Just to say, I am making photographs, some samples are here: http://echophoto.smugmug.com

    Best regards
    Erik
    Last edited by ErikKaffehr; 9th October 2014 at 12:43.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    I have been following the impossible film story recently, the polaroid experiments are fascinating, not a technical interpretation in site just a large amount of incredibly beautiful images shot with real feeling, obviously theres a load of crap in there too but somehow it feels more inspirational.
    Although there is great work I think much of it is the "instagram" effect. The "feeling" comes from a LoFi gimmick. When I see such images I think "how would this image look without the imperfections in technical quality?", surprisingly often it's just an ordinary snapshot. Sure one can appreciate the art in creating a feeling by toning and grading images, but it's not for me.

    Still it's an example of gear driving inspiration, just LoFi instead of HiFi.

    A photographer truly not interested in gear at all would most likely use a Canon or Nikon DSLR, today the most all-around systems you can get in terms of creative possibilities.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Interesting, maybe that's where we can pinpoint differences, of course the equipment contributes to the look but when technical excellent is missing you are forced to be creative with what you have, i.e light and subject and oftentimes the output shows far more than the sum of the parts. I don't see it as in any way a gimmick.

    I can appreciate the technical side of photography but I personally view it as a means to an end, on the one hand I don't subscribe to a manufacturer or even a format, I use whatever I want, whenever I want, on the other hand I want the best tool for the job at hand, I just don't feel though that technical brilliance or a huge range of lenses has anything to do with whether the image will be good or bad, it plays a part but a very minor one to my way of thinking.

    I'm not picking fault with anyones process or desires, I don't care enough! It does get a little tedious to go through so many posts talking about the same equipment restrictions and inadequacies though with very little regard for the fact that some of those very shortcomings can be what creates the beauty in a shot. Actually something I'm striving for (and not necessarily succeeding at) is to move away from images that are technically adequate and towards something far less measurable, images that tell a story, have meaning or capture some sort of beauty, whether these images are sharp to the corners at a certain aperture or whether some website has tested the equipment used and classed it as good is irrelevant, I don't feel that what I'm looking for is measurable with charts and stuff. Obviously that's just my way of looking at things.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post

    A photographer truly not interested in gear at all would most likely use a Canon or Nikon DSLR, today the most all-around systems you can get in terms of creative possibilities.
    That's a strange thing to say, I met a guy recently who was solely focused on his equipment and proudly wore a bracelet on his wrist that had Canon written on it, very strange. I don't believe that users of "mainstream" manufacturers in general care any less about there equipment, same as I don't believe that you have to have a huge amount of lenses and a mf system to prove you care more about gear.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    The reason I posted this thread and the associated images is that there is a significant interest about the Hasselblad V platform with the introduction of the new CMOS back from Hasselblad.

    Buying into an MFD system represents a huge investment for most people, so I feel it is essential to share experience from us who have been there and done that.

    That is the main purpose of my posting. It may be helpful in making a decision into buying into MFD or an inspiration to wait for a while to see what comes around…

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Interesting, maybe that's where we can pinpoint differences, of course the equipment contributes to the look but when technical excellent is missing you are forced to be creative with what you have, i.e light and subject and oftentimes the output shows far more than the sum of the parts. I don't see it as in any way a gimmick.

    I can appreciate the technical side of photography but I personally view it as a means to an end, on the one hand I don't subscribe to a manufacturer or even a format, I use whatever I want, whenever I want, on the other hand I want the best tool for the job at hand, I just don't feel though that technical brilliance or a huge range of lenses has anything to do with whether the image will be good or bad, it plays a part but a very minor one to my way of thinking.

    I'm not picking fault with anyones process or desires, I don't care enough! It does get a little tedious to go through so many posts talking about the same equipment restrictions and inadequacies though with very little regard for the fact that some of those very shortcomings can be what creates the beauty in a shot. Actually something I'm striving for (and not necessarily succeeding at) is to move away from images that are technically adequate and towards something far less measurable, images that tell a story, have meaning or capture some sort of beauty, whether these images are sharp to the corners at a certain aperture or whether some website has tested the equipment used and classed it as good is irrelevant, I don't feel that what I'm looking for is measurable with charts and stuff. Obviously that's just my way of looking at things.
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Have to say after many years shooting the Hassy V and also still having those images in my portfolio and owning just about every piece of gear on it since it was company money spent I bought stuff by the truck load and today I have zero interest in owning any of it today. It was nice gear for the film era but in today's world I really question its value and IQ given the technology we have now. I understand maybe the throw back feelings but for the money spent even cheaply it makes me wonder if its even worth it. Sure a couple nice lenses in the system but the maintence of it in today's world seems hardly worth the time.

    Maybe it's just me so feel free to ignore my comments. I remember all my gear constantly in the shop getting repairs .
    I agree with you on cameras. I have fond memories of my 500C and film backs, but it's not an experience I feel the need to replicate. I do love the lenses, though, and the thought of using them on a Flex with the live view of the 50c excites the gear head in me to no end.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    That's a strange thing to say, I met a guy recently who was solely focused on his equipment and proudly wore a bracelet on his wrist that had Canon written on it, very strange. I don't believe that users of "mainstream" manufacturers in general care any less about there equipment, same as I don't believe that you have to have a huge amount of lenses and a mf system to prove you care more about gear.
    It's not a strange thing to say, it's the truth :-). That most camera users sees their camera choice like a religion of some sort is a separate phenomenom (so I agree that in general people do care much about their camera, just like many care about their car), but if you really don't care about gear it would be natural that you pick a mainstream product that's everyone knows how it works and can do most things.

    I actually know a couple of photographers that don't care about gear, by some reason they happen to be women, and they of course use mainstream products. They see no reason to get exotic gear that cost much or shoot film or polaroiods for the format's sake, they just want a system that can do what's necessary to make the picture and frame and shoot.
    Last edited by torger; 10th October 2014 at 00:16.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Torger, to claim anything as the truth seems a little odd, I have very good friends who view the tools they use as simply that, just tools that allow them to create their vision, 1 owns an IQ180 and another owns Leica, they happen to use great equipment but have no interest in it beyond the fact that it produces an image. There are too many people doing too many things to claim your opinion as the truth in any way beyond how it relates to your own views.

    My reason for commenting on this thread is that there is much more to a system than the technical aspects, it's obviously fine to be focussed on that but I believe it's a very small part of the overall feel of a product or a system.
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    My original plan was to start with the 555ELD but upgrade to a Hartblei HCam in due time. Now I am not sure, I may get another 555ELD as a backup.

    My finding on lenses and back still hold. The camera is a.just a metal box for mounting sensor and lens, with a mirror box allowing for focusing.

    Best regards
    Erik




    Quote Originally Posted by freaklikeme View Post
    I agree with you on cameras. I have fond memories of my 500C and film backs, but it's not an experience I feel the need to replicate. I do love the lenses, though, and the thought of using them on a Flex with the live view of the 50c excites the gear head in me to no end.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Torger, to claim anything as the truth seems a little odd, I have very good friends who view the tools they use as simply that, just tools that allow them to create their vision, 1 owns an IQ180 and another owns Leica, they happen to use great equipment but have no interest in it beyond the fact that it produces an image. There are too many people doing too many things to claim your opinion as the truth in any way beyond how it relates to your own views.

    My reason for commenting on this thread is that there is much more to a system than the technical aspects, it's obviously fine to be focussed on that but I believe it's a very small part of the overall feel of a product or a system.
    I just wanted to provoke a little, added a smiley to be sure.

    If you buy an IQ180 and don't care about image quality or handling you buy it for status, which I guess is okay. MFD companies turning to the luxury market is nothing new. But I guess in this case they actully did care about image quality, but not really finding out exactly how good these systems are compared to others, but just went to a dealer and said "give me the best", and then they are satisfied with what they were assigned knowing/beleiving that they use the best. That's fine.

    When people have issues with spending huge amounts of money on gear, there tends to be an interest in exactly how good these systems are, ie value for money. That's one major reason why we see endless technical comparisons between various systems (an other reason is of course that many are interested in the technical aspects of photography, just as you can be interesting in electronics, or cars or some other nerdy thing).

    How good technical quality a V system can produce compared to other alternatives is a most relevant question, as V systems can be had for cheap, and the CFV-50c back which is substantially cheaper than any other new back on the market.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Honestly Torger, you do write some utter nonsense at times, the idea that buying a IQ180 without being interested in gear can only be down to status is absurd, the fact that you guess it's ok is equally ridiculous. It's entirely possible for people to want the best available so they don't have to think about it, they can just get on with the job of creating what they want. Maybe you'll edit and add a smiley face again.

    I have no doubt that the V system will have renewed interest with the CFV-50c, I presume they know enough about the market to warrant building it. Having used a 503 for many years, I feel the endless technical stuff and graphs say nothing about the pleasure of using the system or what can be achieved with it.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    One fact remains after teaching 23 workshops, some folks buy the absolute best money can buy because its not about the money but about a no excuse tool mentality. If they don't get the shot its their fault not the gear. I totally understand that thinking for those folks. I buy gear to solve a set of issues, its a different purchase mentality. Both reasoning in purchase thought is very valid. People buy for many reasons, brand, feel, style and the list goes on and on.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Honestly Torger, you do write some utter nonsense at times, the idea that buying a IQ180 without being interested in gear can only be down to status is absurd
    I don't think we really disagree, I guess you only read the first sentence in my message. I went on with "But I guess in this case they actually did care about image quality, but not really finding out exactly how good these systems are compared to others, but just went to a dealer and said "give me the best", and then they are satisfied with what they were assigned knowing/beleiving that they use the best. That's fine."

    That is they're not really interested in finding the best price/performance system out there but instead just want the best and can pay for it.

    The reality for many is however that you can't afford the best, and what do you do then? Well you check the technical performance of the best, and then compare it to cheaper systems, and then decide if this is good enough. If you have a shooting style that benefit from high technical quality (large prints of detailed subjects, or you just happen to like pixelpeeping) and you feel that you have 90% of the performance of the best, maybe you can be at peace with your system's choice. That's were comparisons come in.

    I find it a mildly offensive that we should not be able to discuss technical performance of a system without someone chiming in implying that this is irrelevant, and this in a forum which is about gear. It might be irrelevant to the photographer who's shooting style or interest does not lie in high technical quality, and it may be irrelevant to the user that can simply buy the best. But for anyone that has an interest in high technical image quality but cannot buy the best or don't want to blindly invest in what some dealer say is the best, technical analysis is of great interest.

    Back in the 4x5" large format days there was continously comparison with digital to see when digital was good enough to match film. That happened around P45+ for most people, and many then switched to a digital workflow. This was based on technical evaluations, with subjective outcomes. I see no difference now when many people have watched the 135 progress and see when they're good enough to replace more costly MFD systems, but by some reason this is seen as more controversial by some.

    Personally I have a mix between buying the best I can afford and also how well the operation of the camera fits my shooting style. Digital back choice is a budget decision, 33 megapixel is adequate but I'd like to have a bit more (mainly to reduce aliasing artifacts, moreso than gaining resolving power). Lens choice and camera choice is what I would have even if I had a huge budget, being a Linhof Techno (view camera) and Schneider Digitar range. Even if the Rodenstocks wides does perform a little better concerning sharpness, I prefer the design beauty of the Digitar wides (symmetric distortion free) and their lower weight, and as I have made thorough technical analysis of their performance can feel relaxed with that I'm not far behind "the best" by using these lenses. View camera fits by shooting style better than a pancake cam, as I work with many focal lengths and lots of closer range tilt/swing shots.

    Also, I actually don't mind if someone would have as their main photographic interest to shoot brick walls and analyze those in detail rather than trying to make art. I get more enjoyment out of reading a great technical analysis than watching mediocre art. Those that think of themselves as artists sometimes have a tendency to talk about the technical aspects in patronizing terms, and I'm allergic to that.

    I do have an artistic ambition myself, but unfortunately I'm a better critic than artist. That's why I don't have any web page to present my work, I won't put anything out to the general public until I consider it having good artistic quality and I have a message to convey. To me the artistic ambition lies heavier on my shoulders than any worry about technical quality, photography can be a battle in the mind sometimes. If I in say five more years still don't think I reach a sufficient level I'll probably drop any artistic ambition and just shoot casually, shooting becomes like playing amateur golf, a relaxing recreational activity. There's freedom in that too.
    Last edited by torger; 10th October 2014 at 09:30.
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    I think you should post work. The feedback alone is a learning experience. Far too often people think there work is not good enough. It's the same as I don't ask questions because I may sound stupid. Nonsense you learn by doing, sharing and gathering data to be better. As a instructor I cant say that enough that many people have grown so much just by opening up and learn from others. Not pointing at you per say but that's why we are here. To learn, I still learn everyday and sharing is part of that. Just sayin
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Come come now Torger, be serious, you are mildly offended? Please, you're a grown man on an internet forum, the chances of everyone agreeing with you all the time is pretty slim.

    Actually I read your entire post, I just felt everything you were saying was either absurd or you were professing to know another persons motivations, there are a lot of people who stand by the images they produce rather than the kit they own, it's not unusual you know.

    As with all things in life, balance is healthy, you and Eric (are you guys related?) are so singularly focused that sometimes it becomes ever so slightly tedious, the is a photography forum as much as a gear forum so how about commenting on the pleasures or passions of photography as you see it rather than constant cross-talk and mtf graphs, better yet, how's this for an idea, show some incredible photography taken with the extensive kit you carry about? Just a thought.

    Have a nice evening.
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I think you should post work. The feedback alone is a learning experience. Far too often people think there work is not good enough.
    Yes, of course you're right. I do post some images here from time to time, but it's not to showcase my best work or something, I like the "fun with" threads because they're so relaxed and people are being nice to each-other, great artistry and regular snapshots are both welcome.

    To really learn from showing work one need to show it in a context where you get criticism. I still feel that I'm developing artisitically on my own so I'm staying low for yet some time. Getting your work criticized is a bit of a stress too, I want to achieve good things but not at the cost of personal enjoyment. After all, the greatest value to me as an amateur photographer is to be out in the nature and feeling relaxed away from the stress. But like many I'm wired in the way that anything I do I want to do as good as I can, so it's hard to make it just a relaxing recreational activity.

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    One fact remains after teaching 23 workshops, some folks buy the absolute best money can buy because its not about the money but about a no excuse tool mentality. If they don't get the shot its their fault not the gear. I totally understand that thinking for those folks. I buy gear to solve a set of issues, its a different purchase mentality. Both reasoning in purchase thought is very valid. People buy for many reasons, brand, feel, style and the list goes on and on.
    Since I can relate to this post, I'd also add that beyond the removal of gear impediment, there's also the shooting experience side too - some systems are just enjoyable to use regardless of the ultimate technical quality of the results. It's why the V system appeals to quite a few folks even though ultimately it may not match up to using the V lenses on a Phase One DF+ or 645z with adaptors. Using a V camera body, winding on the mirror/shutter and the twap/click of the shooting experience is a joy and having a great digital option for it makes it even more so. Btw, it's why some of us still will shoot film even though from a practical point of view the same or 'better' technical results could be captured using a mirrorless camera and just about any lens today. Now if only there was a practical digital XPan or 617 ...

    I have other friends who consider the camera system a tool that just should be able to capture the images they want with complete flexibility and efficiency. They are very comfortable with what they use, and it may also be the best technical gear too, but when it comes down to it it's just stuff between the eye and the subject that captures the best images with the least effort and with utmost consistency. The thoughts of using most of the gear we're discussing here would just be a total pain in the backside for them in their photography. Full automation, reliable metering, perfect lenses, ideal ergonomics, consistent quality through an efficient workflow are all that really matter to them. For these folks it would be using the latest H5D and AF lenses vs 503CWD & V lenses and a CFV back, or more likely a D810/5DII and the best Nikon G or Canon AF glass vs a Df & AIS lenses.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    We are related trough Adam and Eve.

    We are both engineers, Anders Torger is in software development while I am working with nuclear power plant simulation. Anders has also developed some pretty nice software that can merge several images into an HDR raw file. So he knows a bit about raw files.

    I guess that Anders and I share the obsession to find out about things and also share our experience.

    This thread is actually about images. Some people are interested in buying into the Hasselblad system. Let's say they are willing to spend something like 15-20 k$US, don't you think that a sharing a few raw files indicating what they will get is a relevant endeavour?

    If you are not interested in technology and in making best use of your equipment, why are you wasting your time on a technical thread?

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    As with all things in life, balance is healthy, you and Eric (are you guys related?) are so singularly focused that sometimes it becomes ever so slightly tedious, the is a photography forum as much as a gear forum so how about commenting on the pleasures or passions of photography as you see it rather than constant cross-talk and mtf graphs, better yet, how's this for an idea, show some incredible photography taken with the extensive kit you carry about? Just a thought.

    Have a nice evening.
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    Come come now Torger, be serious, you are mildly offended? Please, you're a grown man on an internet forum, the chances of everyone agreeing with you all the time is pretty slim.

    Actually I read your entire post, I just felt everything you were saying was either absurd or you were professing to know another persons motivations, there are a lot of people who stand by the images they produce rather than the kit they own, it's not unusual you know.

    As with all things in life, balance is healthy, you and Eric (are you guys related?) are so singularly focused that sometimes it becomes ever so slightly tedious, the is a photography forum as much as a gear forum so how about commenting on the pleasures or passions of photography as you see it rather than constant cross-talk and mtf graphs, better yet, how's this for an idea, show some incredible photography taken with the extensive kit you carry about? Just a thought.
    I'm quicker than most on the keyboard, that's my problem. I can put out massive amounts of text in notime, and I can get excited. Sorry for overflowing the forum at times

    Anyways, in this context I pledge guilty of simplifying. I wanted to show that there are valid means to be interested in technical performance, and the ones that claim that they are not often still is but is not so interested in the measuring part of it.

    I also wanted to show that not all strive to become artists and can still have a strong interest in photographic equipment and their performance. It is an exciting area with great technological achievements over the years, which involves both electronics, mechanical and optical advancements. I thought the Otus lens line was an impossibility until I saw them. CMOS in MF is finally here. Low cost MF is coming, lots of exciting stuff going on.

    There are threads which has images in them, and there are threads that discuss gear and argue about gear, and argue about things like this. There are even sections dedicated for photographic art criticism, not so much on GetDPI but on other photographic forums I visit.

    As I write so much and long I guess you miss that I actually do write about the pleasures of photography. I'm a strong view camera advocate and I often return to the reasons, I'm also a strong advocate to not bring sharpness too far as you loses other flexibility.

    Crosstalk is a special interest, but it has great impact on the future of tech cams as we know it today. I want to raise awareness of the issue so tech users can put pressure on the manufacturers to solve the issue rather than moving further and further away from the great performance that we had in the Kodak sensors. If the trend continues it will be the end of tech lenses as we know them today, we'll see even more heavy and complex optical constructions than current Digarons. Symmetrical wides are small, light cheap and still have very good performance. I think there's value in keeping that optical design possibility, and well it's not only about symmetrical designs, it's about weakly retrofocus too. The trend has been going for breaking that design as well.

    Ending with "why don't you show your work for a change" is a classic. But anyway, here are a few random shots (my lack of order is becoming an issue...) from the past year, I hope you enjoy them. They of course become out of context here but should give some idea of my shooting style and why I like to work with a view camera. Actually I don't use wide angles as much as one might think from my interest in wide angle design , but I have them in my arsenal and use them from time to time. I enjoy making images out of ordinary subjects, I think it's fantastic that only placing the four corners of the frame on a particular postition can create an image out of nothing. Of course I also enjoy to capture grand photos of famous locations in wonderful light, but that is to me more of a experience of nature to me and there are already so many that do that well. Creating an image out of nothing in particular is the ultimate photographic experience to me.

    I also think that a great part of the artistry in landscape photography, perhaps the greatest these days, is choosing what you show. You decide what is to be shown and what is good, the audience have to adapt (or not come, which probably is more likely in reality...). Therefore I don't believe in the excellence of the single image, anyone can shoot a great image once in a while. Artistry comes from a body of work, the feelings you convey when many images are watched together. I don't think you can convey a message with a single image, especially in the landscape genre, but you can with many. Being careful when choosing images is key of course, but even in which order you choose to display them can have an impact on what the images convey.
    Last edited by torger; 10th October 2014 at 11:42.
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    I can promise you that I'd much rather look at your images than read your words Torger, maybe in the spirit of balance, you can show both in equal measure?!

  48. #48
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Hi,

    This is a thread about the usability of the Hasselblad system. I don't feel you contribute to that?

    Why don't you start a new thread, discussing the issues you happen to have at heart?

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    I can promise you that I'd much rather look at your images than read your words Torger, maybe in the spirit of balance, you can show both in equal measure?!

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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    Quote Originally Posted by mjr View Post
    I can promise you that I'd much rather look at your images than read your words Torger
    I don't know if that is a compliment or an insult

    Maybe in ten years I can show of both of equal measure. I develop slow and from all time I spend on the forums discussing technical details there's not much time for shooting

    (I kind of enjoy when the temperature rises in a discussion, gets to test standpoints etc, I have strong opinions about things, but in the end there's no hard feelings.)
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    Re: Some P45+/Hasselblad V series samples

    I'd say it's a compliment in the most part, haha. There is never any hard feelings from my view, nor any raised temperatures, it's just a discussion.

    Have a nice weekend, hopefully you will spend at least a part of it taking photographs.
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