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Thread: The Sigma DP cameras

  1. #1
    Senior Member Chris Giles's Avatar
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    The Sigma DP cameras

    Possibly the wrong forum section I know, but this is more related to Medium format in direction.

    I love my H4D50, LOVE it. But I usually use it for personal projects and travel stuff. But now, I'm thinking about taking something much much lighter.

    The Sigma DP system seems interesting. High MP, Foveon sensor and compact.

    Trouble is I have no idea what I should get and there appears to be three models (the Dp1, 2 and 3, the Merrill and the Quattro).

    I'm not interesting high ISO performance. Just image quality but don't seem to see much online about any of them. Which is odd.

    Can anyone offer a comparison / guide on what is what?

    Thanks!
    Chris Giles Photography

  2. #2
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    buy the three DPMs, perfect companions to your medium format setup.

    the image quality is superb, even by medium format standards

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    you can check out images in the "other cameras" sub forum

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Chris,

    I shoot the three DPM cameras, the SD1M, and MFD as well. The DPM cameras are my MF in a lightweight shoulder bag. If you can't get all three, I'd start with the DP2M as it has a razor-sharp 30mm f/2.8 lens that is a 45mm f/2.8 equivalent. You might need a loupe for shooting in the sun since there is no EVF. The Sigma optical add-on VF is a waste of money IMO, and I use a Hoodman Loupe and prefer it over the aftermarket EVF I purchased.

    As advised above, you should wander over to the 'Other cameras' thread in this forum for advice, questions, and images regarding the Sigma line of cameras.

    Kind regards,
    Darr

    A few Sigma DPM pictures:




    Water Lilies, etc.
    Sigma DP2M, 1/50 sec at f/8, ISO 100




    St. Marks Lighthouse
    Sigma DP1M, 1/1250 @ f/2.8, Handheld




    Reflection
    Sigma DP2M, ISO 100 +0.7, handheld




    Windy Sunset
    Sigma DP3M, ISO 100, 10 sec @ f/8.0
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Those are wonderful Darr.
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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Thank you Tom! I do love my little Sigma bricks.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    As Darr mentioned, these little bricks are great for travel when you don't want to take the full MF / tech camera ensemble with you.

    I now travel with my Sony RX1-R and a Sigma 'to go' Think Tank Mirrorless Mover bag with the DP1M, DP2M, DP3M and my spot meter. I've also taken to using a color checker grey card for white balance in the field. Also, you can never have too many batteries ...

    The results are quite stunning overall considering the system. The Sigma processing software though is pretty flaky but the results are fine.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    I have been thinking of these "Bricks" lately too. What do you DP owners think of exporting straight out of the Sigma SW as TIFFs and doing "real" edits in PS?

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    I would consider these cameras seriously, if they had Lightroom support (or DNG). As they are, they're simply a no go for me, as I don't want to use another software to process (esp since I have only heard horrible things about the Sigma SW).

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by synn View Post
    I have been thinking of these "Bricks" lately too. What do you DP owners think of exporting straight out of the Sigma SW as TIFFs and doing "real" edits in PS?
    That's pretty much what I do although I've only been using the system for a few weeks so far. I'll look to make sure that the exposure range is good for shadow/highlights and if necessary do minimal adjustment to ensure that the histogram had no problems and then export to TIFF to PS.

    One thing that you'll never need to do is sharpen the image before export!

    This is an unsharpened version from the RAW. These things don't really shine as much at a small size compared to the original full size images where the sheer detail rendering of the Sigmas is very impressive. They look like technical camera images but without the resolution obviously. I've been shooting side by side with my Alpa/IQ260 and it's convinced me enough that I can live with a small travel outfit using these cameras when I don't want the burden of taking a backpack, big tripod, and risking leaving the system in my hotel when on a business or pleasure trip.

    In the example below, the Alpa/Rodenstock/IQ260 will render the fact that there are a few people on the shore of the Sandy River in this shot, plus who's fishing, some of the facial details etc. The 14-15mp of the Sigma DP2M used here will show that there are people and basic colors of their clothes but that's where the resolution runs out. If I'd shot it with my RX1R or A7R or X-T1 systems then I would have seen that people were there but with less detail than the Sigma.

    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 21st October 2014 at 00:40.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Stunning image, Graham. You've just made me poorer by a few hundred bucks, I think...

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    This is a 100% jpg crop from the original. The browser seems to be messing with the jpg a little compared to what I see in PS on a MBP Retina but you'll get some idea of the rendering of these mini-travel MF alternatives. Again, I stress that this is unsharpened.

    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    I am banning myself from this thread.
    How glorious a greeting the sun gives the mountains! - John Muir

    davechewphotography.com
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    i think one of the beauty of these bricks is that....we are not talking about super high megapixel count, but every pixel you get is top notch quality. i recently got myself an A7r (with leica tri-elmar), it baffles me every time i view at 100% why i spend all that money....

    once you converted the raw file in tiff and import to lightroom, it's business as usual. but because the files are actually quite small once in tiff form, it doesnt cause too much lag for my old pc, unlike the a7r 36MP files.
    Keep It Simple.
    XQ2 / A7r / 15mm / 25mm / 28-35-50mm
    EOS M3 / 18-35mm

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by synn View Post
    I have been thinking of these "Bricks" lately too. What do you DP owners think of exporting straight out of the Sigma SW as TIFFs and doing "real" edits in PS?
    That is currently how I process all my Sigma images. I upload the RAW files to a folder on my hard drive, open Sigma Pro Photo (SPP), locate the folder, select all files, make TIFF copies, and close SPP. Then I open Lightroom (LR), import, and go from there. I do not have the time to mess with SPP.

    I have been with the Sigma cameras for about 18 months and in that time, SPP went through a major upgrade, but it is not to my liking. Other photographers may do other things with SPP, but I choose to stay with my normal workflow which is LR and PS.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    I want to add that I recently sold a 10x19" (framed 16x25") image made from this cropped composition and it was razor sharp. The DPM cameras are really remarkable with all things considered. They are currently marked down because of the Quattro models appearing, which I am passing on.



    Wish I Was There
    DP2M, 1/400 sec @ f/8, ISO 100, Handheld
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com
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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Had the DP cameras been supported by industry standard software and had excellent low light performance I may well have been using them now. They're not and they haven't so alas I'm not.

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Darlene,

    A lovely image, expertly processed!

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    I want to add that I recently sold a 10x19" (framed 16x25") image made from this cropped composition and it was razor sharp. The DPM cameras are really remarkable with all things considered. They are currently marked down because of the Quattro models appearing, which I am passing on.



    Wish I Was There
    DP2M, 1/400 sec @ f/8, ISO 100, Handheld
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Chris Giles's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Thanks all. I didin't really think to check the other camera section, I went into small sensor!

    I've a DP2 arriving tomorrow. I looked into a way to bypass the software and there's a lot of misleading info out there. Adobe says Camera Raw supports it but appears not to. Some are saying you can use the Raw to DNG converter but that's a no too.

    I think I've found the right compact finally.
    Chris Giles Photography

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    I'd agree with quite a lot of the above. I had a DP2M and it's a pretty unique camera in terms of the look of the files from such a compact machine. Pixel level sharpness is amazing. No sharpening really required in post. I do find that - for large prints of 30x20 and above - that I much prefer the output of my Leica M240, however, which seems to have more robust and smooth looking output. In large prints, you get more jaggies with the DPM for things like hair strands. I typically used the DPM on a tripod - I found it's clip on viewfinder fairly inadequate, and I dislike holding a camera at arms length. I also struggled with getting skin colors right with the DPM - a greenish tinge was often there out of the camera, which drove me crazy. SPP was also something that drove me away from wanting to use the DPM and towards a more regular CMOS full frame camera.

  21. #21
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Here are a bunch of images from the Dp1M for you reference. I love the DP1M, even though it gets less love than the other Merrills on this forum.

    It's my travel camera of choice. I came to it after shooting both 35mm and medium format digital. I'm slowly headed back into MF-land, but think I'll always have a few Merrills onboard.

    Some stuff, all handheld, from travels this year:













    Cheers!
    Shelby
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Incredible samples again. Thanks for sharing!

    Another question to DP owners, does the Sigma software allow exporting of TIFFs in Prophoto RGB? This is my preferred editing space, hence.

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Yes it does, Synn. Raw Sigma files can be exported in 8 or 16 bit Pro Photo.

    Lawrence

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    That last pic, Shelby, is Very Nice!
    Martin
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    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    As Darr mentioned, these little bricks are great for travel when you don't want to take the full MF / tech camera ensemble with you.

    I now travel with my Sony RX1-R and a Sigma 'to go' Think Tank Mirrorless Mover bag with the DP1M, DP2M, DP3M and my spot meter. I've also taken to using a color checker grey card for white balance in the field. Also, you can never have too many batteries ...

    The results are quite stunning overall considering the system. The Sigma processing software though is pretty flaky but the results are fine.
    Hey have you noticed the Italian flag with the sony? It looks like a great camera.

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Giles View Post
    Possibly the wrong forum section I know, but this is more related to Medium format in direction.

    I love my H4D50, LOVE it. But I usually use it for personal projects and travel stuff. But now, I'm thinking about taking something much much lighter.

    The Sigma DP system seems interesting. High MP, Foveon sensor and compact.

    Trouble is I have no idea what I should get and there appears to be three models (the Dp1, 2 and 3, the Merrill and the Quattro).

    I'm not interesting high ISO performance. Just image quality but don't seem to see much online about any of them. Which is odd.

    Can anyone offer a comparison / guide on what is what?

    Thanks!
    I invite you to discover some photos taken with the DP2 quattro on the following links:
    http://www.yaotomi.co.jp/blog/walk/SDIM0058.jpg
    SIGMA dp2 Quattro ? ??? ?? 2014 ?first on? - ??????

    SIGMA dp Quattro Photo Gallery | ???????

    SIGMA dp Quattro Photo Gallery | ???????

    100% crops of this photo interpolated 45Mpix.
    After clicking on the thumbnail, click on the image to see it at 100%.







    Other photos:
    https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=2E5E3...881A2DA3E8!822

    100% crops, picture SDIM1696, interpolated 45Mpix.




    SDIM1673, Crop 45Mpix:


    SIGMA dp2 Quattro:

    The interpolation I have made ​​from the jpg. SPP does not work on my computer.
    In raw results would probably be even better.

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Yeah, like many here, I have these too (DP2 and DP3 Merrill)

    Just remember they are little cameras and make relatively small print files. You will not get big prints out of them, like you can with MF. Quality is superb, for that size, but you must remember it is not what you are used to in Mp.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    Yeah, like many here, I have these too (DP2 and DP3 Merrill)

    Just remember they are little cameras and make relatively small print files. You will not get big prints out of them, like you can with MF. Quality is superb, for that size, but you must remember it is not what you are used to in Mp.
    Exactly - they are superb up to a limit that where MF just keeps on going ....
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    I found this image shot by a DP2 quattro and am now seriously thinking about it.

    http://23.252.120.42/PRODS/sigma-dp2...159-SPP606.JPG

    That is better than anything my D800 has ever coughed up SOOC. Not in the league of the Credo of course, but at less than 1/10th the price, that's phenomenal.

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by synn View Post
    I found this image shot by a DP2 quattro and am now seriously thinking about it.

    http://23.252.120.42/PRODS/sigma-dp2...159-SPP606.JPG

    That is better than anything my D800 has ever coughed up SOOC. Not in the league of the Credo of course, but at less than 1/10th the price, that's phenomenal.
    Yeah, again, if you are happy with just small prints, and nothing more, then yes, it's really great.

    A D800 or A7R will give you a far larger print at native resolution. with the Sigma you'll have to upsample, then things start to get less clear. If small prints are your thing, then it's perfect. If you print larger for exhibition or sales, then think about that. Jus' sayin' !

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    Yeah, again, if you are happy with just small prints, and nothing more, then yes, it's really great.

    A D800 or A7R will give you a far larger print at native resolution. with the Sigma you'll have to upsample, then things start to get less clear. If small prints are your thing, then it's perfect. If you print larger for exhibition or sales, then think about that. Jus' sayin' !
    Foveons dont use Bayerpatterns

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    Yeah, again, if you are happy with just small prints, and nothing more, then yes, it's really great.

    A D800 or A7R will give you a far larger print at native resolution. with the Sigma you'll have to upsample, then things start to get less clear. If small prints are your thing, then it's perfect. If you print larger for exhibition or sales, then think about that. Jus' sayin' !

    I have a credo that also can up sample if needed. That takes care of all the highest quality work.
    The D800 files break apart when up sampled. From what I see, the sigma files up sample a bit better than non MF Bayer files too.

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    I would venture to say that the per pixel resolution of the Foveon sensor is better than any Bayer sensor currently produced. It's ability to capture minute distant detail is as good if not better than anything I've seen with the D800. And posts confirming that the DP Merrills can print as large as the D800 are not uncommon on any number of forums.

    I think the best definition I've seen of the Merrills is "mini tech cam", but it has to be used as such (stable tripod, self timer) to capture that resolution.

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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by synn View Post
    I have a credo that also can up sample if needed. That takes care of all the highest quality work.
    The D800 files break apart when up sampled. From what I see, the sigma files up sample a bit better than non MF Bayer files too.
    Synn:

    I tried the Quattro for a week. I was unhappy with the colors I was getting, but I'm unfamiliar with the Sigma software, so maybe if I had spent more time. I really didn't like the form factor either; however, the sharpness of the files was quite amazing. I was comparing images to those from a 645D. The D is better, but not by as much as I expected. The Sigma files are so sharp that they up sample well.
    I'm about to purchase a Merrill DP2. * It appears to be a camera I can take anywhere without feeling I have to sacrifice too much quality.

    Tom


    * Darr is the poster who is principally to blame for this decision.
    Last edited by tsjanik; 25th October 2014 at 13:37.
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by foveon View Post
    Foveons dont use Bayerpatterns
    No kidding. This is the MF forum, most of us are pretty familiar with sensors and patterns.

    When you make a print, there is a certain minimum dpi that the printer needs, a D800E or A7R will supply far more of those than a DP2M. Yes the Sigma's pixels are definitely sharper, but much fewer. That's the point I was making. Many folks here depend on exhibition prints for a living, so it's important to be aware of this fact. That's all.

  36. #36
    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: The Sigma DP cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post
    Yeah, again, if you are happy with just small prints, and nothing more, then yes, it's really great.

    A D800 or A7R will give you a far larger print at native resolution. with the Sigma you'll have to upsample, then things start to get less clear. If small prints are your thing, then it's perfect. If you print larger for exhibition or sales, then think about that. Jus' sayin' !
    Hi Narikin,

    What is your definition of a small print size? You've got my curiosity raised as a retailer of photographic prints for 30+ years.

    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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