Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Marseille, FRANCE
    Posts
    972
    Post Thanks / Like

    CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

    i've just received an email from a dealer in paris, they are selling a bundle :
    CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno…

    i thought the 43 wasn't the best alternative for movements with this back… ?!

    Le_Moyen_Format_News_

  2. #2
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

    We list this lens as "very limited" on our Tech Camera Lens Overview when used with the IQ250, IQ150, or Credo 50*.

    That doesn't mean "not usable in any circumstance" but it does mean, in our opinion (after extensive testing and experience), that most users would be much better off with a Rodenstock 40HR instead.

    An exception might be someone using it on a ultra-compact tech camera (Factum, Alpa TC) with the intention of using it without movements. That, of course, is a different situation than the Techno.

    Another exception would be those shooting table top or still life, since the limitations are mostly at infinity and near-infinity focus distances, and quickly lift when used at more macro-oriented distances (since the lens is further away).

    *Note that Capture One's very sophisticated LCC tool, using it's special "wide angle tech camera lens" mode, and Phocus' lens cast removal tool will not necessarily handle outlying situations equally well - so our assessment may be a bit optimistic when translated into CFV-50C.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Marseille, FRANCE
    Posts
    972
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

    but for table top a 43 isn't really useful…

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    11

    Re: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

    How much would be the saving if priced separately?

    This kit is advertised as being multi-purpose "en Studio et Architecture". This reminds me of a saying that SOME dealers conveniently overlooked the compatibility issue between some Schneiders and the latest generation of digital backs. So hats off to those who have done a thorough investigation for us. Thanks for the age of internet...
    Last edited by yongfei; 21st October 2014 at 13:50. Reason: clarification

  5. #5
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4

    Re: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

    Quote Originally Posted by archivue View Post
    i've just received an email from a dealer in paris, they are selling a bundle :
    CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno…

    i thought the 43 wasn't the best alternative for movements with this back… ?!

    Le_Moyen_Format_News_

    Maybe it's one of those dealers Anders was referring to...


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar • Authorized Reseller

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,588
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

    Linhof & Studio are doing packages with the Techno / STC / Silvestri with the 40H and CFV-50c. Paula says the 43XL in not good at all, so doesn't recommend it. I've seen results with the 60XL that are superb, even with moderate movements, processed in Phocus. C1 may be a great bit of software, but let's not overstate the difference between it and Phocus when it comes to output.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

    It all depends on the amount of movements you need. I have test shots with the 43XL, and it will work unshifted. If you're picky about color and don't want it disturbed by crosstalk you can't move it off center almost anything, but as we've seen from Guy's Credo 50 testing you can stretch it quite a bit and still get results that look good.

    With the same type of stretching the limits it seems like the 43XL would do about 10mm shift on the long side (similar on the short side), which can be enough for a 44x33mm back. If you're into stitching you'd need more, or if you're like me both interested in being able to use most of the image circle and don't like to push a sensor into crosstalk it would not look like a good combination.

    I have haven't run Phocus much and don't know it's LCC capabilities. The CFV-50c doesn't present (strong) tiling or ripple fortunately so you won't need specific algorithms to clean up movement artifacts (like some of the Dalsa sensors require), so any basic LCC algorithm should produce a good result. When it comes to crosstalk you need a demosaicer that is robust against green channel separation (one green will get leaks from red and the other from blue so they will separate in the case they should be the same, which can cause the demosaicer to produce false detail and mazing artifacts). The demosaicer in Capture One is robust against this, but that is not the case in all raw converters. I don't know what it is in Phocus. My guess is that it will work, but I would like to see it in person first.

    And no I don't think it's great marketing to put out these combinations without a disclaimer, but let's hope they inform the potential buyers before buy of what the limits are and not only go on about the advantages of live view and high ISO. From a lens with a 110mm image circle you get ~75mm usable when stretching it, and that may not be what the typical user is expecting to get. It will be perfectly fine for some though, 75mm is more than the Digaron-S 70mm.

    But it's also about the upgradability of the system. You need to inform the buyer that when you want wider angle than this starting 43mm lens (which is not super-wide on a 44x33mm sensor) there are limitations, the SK35 and SK28 will be even more limited, so limited that you probably want the Rodenstock Digaron series and that may not seem like a good option for a system that is market as a low cost MF system.

    If you have all the facts on the table, it can still be a good option in the end for your shooting style and budget, and I hope to see the live view backs on tech cams soon.
    Last edited by torger; 22nd October 2014 at 01:15.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

    By the way, latest price on a new CFV-50c back including taxes is 970,000 yen which is about 9100 USD.

    https://www.mapcamera.com/item/7392544342207

    It can be something to compare with when you see the new package deals from the european dealers. The Japanese pricing on this back is different from the european (and US) by some unknown reason, I guess they have some specific V system market they want to reach there. I think it would be interesting if Hasselblad tried this pricing also in other markets, it would make these tech cam deals even more attractive, where you can get a complete system for less than what a competitor's back costs.

  9. #9
    New Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    12
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    But it's also about the upgradability of the system. You need to inform the buyer that when you want wider angle than this starting 43mm lens (which is not super-wide on a 44x33mm sensor) there are limitations, the SK35 and SK28 will be even more limited, so limited that you probably want the Rodenstock Digaron series and that may not seem like a good option for a system that is market as a low cost MF system.

    If you have all the facts on the table, it can still be a good option in the end for your shooting style and budget, and I hope to see the live view backs on tech cams soon.
    Do you have any idea what would be the situation using CFV-50c with Digaron lenses 28mm or even 23mm? Would this combination allow decent movements? Anyone has any first hand experience on this on any setup?

    Tuomas

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,588
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

    Actually, I've heard another report from a very accomplished photographer who has tested the 43XL / 50c combo who says it works pretty well. Not as good as the 40HR or even 60XL, but "not bad". Still, not a combination that I'd want to buy from scratch, but if you already have the 43mm then maybe it's an okay interim lens?

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

    Tuomas: see this thread:

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-f...0hr-iq250.html

    It's a test with IQ250 but it has the same sensor and thus the same LCC performance.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,588
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?


  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: CFV-50c as a kit with 43XL and techno… ?

    But the 40mm looks good.
    www.gigi-photos.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •