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Thread: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Jawad, I too once used a M9 and found it very impressive once writing that the M9 was very close to a baby brother to my P45 at the time. same sensors gave me very much the same color. The only difficulty I had with the M9 was the limitations of the print size thus I sold it and returned to a DF and the ability to switch the back between the two systems.

    A lot of what we do is subjective; what works best for us might not work for others. I too don't see me changing sensors any time soon.

    Have you decided yet on the camera system? Seems we got sidetracked talking about glass (which isn't a bad thing)...

    don
    Last edited by Don Libby; 2nd December 2014 at 18:47.
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Jawed, I too once used a M9 and found it very impressive once writing that the M9 was very close to a baby brother to my P45 at the time. same sensors gave me very much the same color. The only difficulty I had with the M9 was the limitations of the print size thus I sold it and returned to a DF and the ability to switch the back between the two systems.

    A lot of what we do is subjective; what works best for us might not work for others. I too don't see me changing sensors any time soon.

    Have you decided yet on the camera system? Seems we got sidetracked talking about glass (which isn't a bad thing)...

    don
    Don

    I regret selling my M9 and Noctilux - but then its no match for MFD for prints as you said.

    All the lens talk actually ties back to my camera so its not a bad thing at all, I agree.

    Given that I have a fixed amount of $$ I am having a hard time deciding whether to spend more on a camera or on a lens. Choices:
    a) Alpa STC and a very good lens 40mm HR
    b) A great lens (32mm HR) and a Cambo 1200
    c) Wait until I can afford to get both

    -Jawad

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by voidshatter View Post
    I also itched to opt for the 32HR lens when I use an IQ260 CCD. However the main issue with it is that the center filter is too huge and there is no easy filter solution for that. If you shoot without a center filter then you get noisy corners since the CCD has noticeably less dynamic range than the CMOS sensors (even less than a Pentax K5-IIs APSC if you do long exposure shots)! Yes you may well use a CMOS digital back and overcome the vignetting without the center filter but again as mentioned above, the 32HR may not be CMOS-friendly or future proof enough. We don't know about that yet.
    I use the CF on the 32HR and often use Heliopan 105mm ND screw in filters (.3, .6, .9, 2, 3). I take the ND off for the LCC, CF stays on. I take the ND off for two reasons - getting rid of any ND induced color casts or vignetting; and I'm just not patient enough to stand around holding up a white card in front of my lens for 4x the time it took to shoot the image in the middle of nowhere.

    I also sometimes use a 105mm slim coated polarizer. Movements are limited when compared without the polarizer as vignetting starts to kick in, but it is still useable with some movement.

    All filters are stacked on the CF.
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    The lens discussion in this thread has been immensely instructive. Thank you.

    Also, maybe the CCD is on the way out, but don't tell that to Wayne Fox who seems to be doing just fine with that dated technology.
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    I use the CF on the 32HR and often use Heliopan 105mm ND screw in filters (.3, .6, .9, 2, 3). I take the ND off for the LCC, CF stays on. I take the ND off for two reasons - getting rid of any ND induced color casts or vignetting; and I'm just not patient enough to stand around holding up a white card in front of my lens for 4x the time it took to shoot the image in the middle of nowhere.

    I also sometimes use a 105mm slim coated polarizer. Movements are limited when compared without the polarizer as vignetting starts to kick in, but it is still useable with some movement.

    All filters are stacked on the CF.
    I have found no good solution of 15-stop ND filter for the 105mm center filter yet. Singh-Ray does not make 86mm or 105mm either. It would be also difficult to eliminate light leakage issues if any filter holder is used to accommodate a square ND filter at 15-stop. I could live with a 10-stop ND filter but that would require stacking of multiple exposures in post-processing, which is less than ideal for a technical camera as cocking the Copal 0 shutter would introduce vibrations between shots and hence damage sharpness of final image.

    As you mentioned, for long exposure shots the CF should stay on but it is not viable to have the ND on. Thus even if Singh-Ray makes 86mm in the future it would still be too much of harassment to take off the ND then screw in the CF just to take the LCC shot - such operation in the field always risks scratching the front element! I could only prey that Singh-Ray makes 105mm in the future.

    Anyway, as the 32HR is not very CMOS-friendly (thus not future proof for me), I am now moving to a wider solution, i.e. 23HR + IQ250. Yes I get less pixels on a smaller sensor whose price is going to crash soon in months but I do get the benefit of CMOS not having to take the darkframe NR, which is critical for sunset and sunrise.

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Didn't even know 15 stop ND's existed....so that's like 32000x the exposure time without the ND filter. So even a shot @ a copal shutter's max speed of 1/500 would be over a minute. A typical exposure for me @f8 w/CF is around 1/30s which would be about 18 minutes. I guess I don't need to worry too much about that on my CCD sensor for now, I could make lunch on it if I had it on for 18 minutes straight

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Sorry for the off-topic question, but you guys are saying that a regular 86mm screw-on ND will fit over the HR32 without touching the front element, right?

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by beano_z View Post
    Sorry for the off-topic question, but you guys are saying that a regular 86mm screw-on ND will fit over the HR32 without touching the front element, right?
    Need to check, but I wouldn't think there will be a problem.

    I use 105mm over my CF filter.
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamgolf View Post
    ...
    Given that I have a fixed amount of $$ I am having a hard time deciding whether to spend more on a camera or on a lens. Choices:
    a) Alpa STC and a very good lens 40mm HR
    b) A great lens (32mm HR) and a Cambo 1200
    c) Wait until I can afford to get both

    -Jawad
    If with a limited amount of resources, or rather only willing to commit to a limited investment for a technical camera, you're really looking at what Don and I call a "one-lens-wonder."

    When Rodenstock first released the HR40 t/s, I knew this would be "the lens" for me. And I was in a similar situation in not wanting to be too Dante-esque with lenses initially. I wanted a "one-lens-wonder."

    I already had the IQ180 so the MFDB decision was made. (CMOS sensor ala IQ150/250 doesn't interest me btw). A technical camera really isn't much but an expensive finely machined plate of metal. And the truth is that you really aren't going to find objective quality/precision differences at this level of photography with Cambo, Alpa, or Arca.

    In short, the Cambo and HR40 t/s (and my IQ180) became my "one-lens-wonder." You can easily go on landscape outings with only this single lens. IMO, the HR40 t/s is a great first lens for someone getting into a technical camera. It plays well, rarely really needs LCC though in practice you should always take an LCC exposure. IMHO, the HR40 t/s is the best overall focal length if planning on limiting yourself to a single lens initially. You have full movements in a great package that travels light and well. IMO, the HR40 t/s is a power packed lens and a great first lens for a technical camera. It is easy to use, no CF needed, easy to use a bellows shade or add filters. It is a one-lens-wonder.

    ken
    Last edited by kdphotography; 3rd December 2014 at 06:42.

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamgolf View Post
    Given that I have a fixed amount of $$ I am having a hard time deciding whether to spend more on a camera or on a lens. Choices:
    a) Alpa STC and a very good lens 40mm HR
    b) A great lens (32mm HR) and a Cambo 1200
    c) Wait until I can afford to get both

    -Jawad
    Jawad, the deciding factor between those two should not be the difference in cost. Neither is exactly cheap.

    Buy into the system that is best for you.

    Get your hands on each system and get a feel for them if you can.
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Both Kens are correct - in the end it's up to you and how much the system talks to you. The concept of the tech camera is silly stupid (when compared to a DSLR) you have a piece of metal that accepts a lens on one side and a digital back on the other while offering some sort of movements.

    As stated previously, the only read world experience I have is with Cambo having bought the WRS late 2008. Out of all the camera gear I have that remains the longest lasting system and after 6-years of constant use I have no plans of getting rid of it. Yes, there's been improvements made both by Cambo and others however my WRS works well and is just as tight and well made today as it was when I first tried it out at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon the Fall of 2008.

    I've been using this word a lot recently however it really is a subjective decision of the system; it either "fits" or it doesn't. There was a car commercial awhile back where the spokesperson asks does your car return the favor when you turn it on? I use that question a lot when I speak to people about camera systems. Does it turn you on? If not maybe you need to look at another system.

    Finally ,buying into any of the systems isn't cheap or for the faint of heart; that's why finding the right dealer is so damn important and it appears you have. Keep bugging Steve and Dave with questions. You might also want to plan a trip to Lake Tahoe next April when Dave, Ken and myself get together as we'll have all sorts of camera gear with us that you can try out (call CI for the details).

    Okay had the first cup of coffee and need to get outside....
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_R View Post
    Jawad, the deciding factor between those two should not be the difference in cost. Neither is exactly cheap.

    Buy into the system that is best for you.

    Get your hands on each system and get a feel for them if you can.
    Sounds like good dating advice before considering marriage.

    Okay, need that second cup of coffee now....

    ken

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Ken, Ken_R, Don:

    Thank you guys for your advice.
    You all make sense. I really need to reflect on this.
    I need my 4th cup of coffee - and its only 10:31 AM
    Let the 'reflection' begin

    Points to reflect on:
    * it either "fits" or it doesn't (Don)
    * does 'it' return the favor when you turn it on? (Don)
    * deciding factor ... should not only be the 'difference in cost' (Ken_R)
    * buy into the system that is best for you (Ken_R)
    * one-lens-wonder or not (Ken)

    -Jawad

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Jawad, remember - only you know what fits you best. The other secret is that there's no such thing as a "one lens wonder" as soon or later that lens will want company (just ask Ken). That said, I'm off to shoot Moab and So Rim in a couple weeks and I'm only packing the 40HR for the Cambo....

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    I was thinking about this thread this morning as I shot this. Yes a 32 is a heck of a lens and if you need to go wider you can always shift; on the other hand you'd be left with cropping in if you needed to get closer and that doesn't always work out well. Go to a 40mm focal length give you just a little bit closer and at the same time you can always shift for wider.

    When 40mm isn't enough - 3 shot image (center and 5 degrees left and right) give me a 12162x7649 pixels at 360 dpi should have gone 10 degrees however in a rush fighting snakes...

    Cambo WRS\IQ180 and a HR 40mm t/s f/4 1/500 ISO 35



    Seeing how well this turned out I plan on returning to shoot wider.
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Don, a keeper for sure. Also looks like I can live with the DR of my CCD 180 for a while
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    [FONT=Tahoma]I was thinking about this thread this morning as I shot this.
    Beautiful shot Don.

    This thread is on my mind for sure, but the fact that you too were thinking about this thread made me chuckle at little

    And whats that you said about "fighting snakes..." - for real?

    Cheers!
    -Jawad
    Last edited by Jamgolf; 3rd December 2014 at 17:58.

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamgolf View Post
    And whats that you said about "fighting snakes..." - for real?
    -Jawad
    Don lives in the Sonoran Desert in southern Arizona, where fighting rattlesnakes is just a normal part of what you do everyday.

    Here's an image of one I encountered on the trail, no fighting though just hissing and rattling.. sorry for the lousy image, it was shot with my iPhone, but my MF tech camera kit was looking. In hindsight I should have mounted the SK 120 and used the tech cam just to prove it could be done..!

    Last edited by Pemihan; 4th December 2014 at 07:12.
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Without investing too deeply, I would look at the TC + S/K 35mm for use with a Credo 60.

    Why Alpa? The system is huge, and with the FPS and the new focus-stacking system there’s something for just about every imaginable scenario. You can deal with Alpa directly (including sales) which is nice - and they reply quickly - as well as through a number of dealers. Pricey, no doubt - but there’s just something about an Alpa. Oh, and they have a good website.

    The S/K 35mm is a really nice lens. Lost popularity because of the 80MP sensor design, but it behaves well enough with the Credo 60 and that includes some shifting ability. Small, sharp, light, contrasty and distortion-free. Pricewise you should be able to pick one up for a fraction of the cost new. Forget about people asking $3k, $4k, $5k for this lens used - they’re on the Koolade. The last few sold on GetDPI (months ago) went for the low $2k range, so today I’d expect to pay $2k or less for a nice example. There are a couple on eBay right now struggling to get through the $1k barrier.

    So, TC + S/K 35mm + adapter plate = $6k. If you can get the TC and adapter plate used, the kit would probably be under $5k.

    Jim
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    So, TC + S/K 35mm + adapter plate = $6k. If you can get the TC and adapter plate used, the kit would probably be under $5k.

    Jim
    I'm not saying that you can't but I'll be mighty impressed if you do ...
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 4th December 2014 at 15:42.
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Without knowing anything about these things, could a 35XL in Alpa focusing mount also be used on a Cambo, or would that require a mount change?
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Mount change is required.

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Without investing too deeply, I would look at the TC + S/K 35mm for use with a Credo 60.

    Why Alpa? The system is huge, and with the FPS and the new focus-stacking system there’s something for just about every imaginable scenario. You can deal with Alpa directly (including sales) which is nice - and they reply quickly - as well as through a number of dealers. Pricey, no doubt - but there’s just something about an Alpa. Oh, and they have a good website.

    The S/K 35mm is a really nice lens. Lost popularity because of the 80MP sensor design, but it behaves well enough with the Credo 60 and that includes some shifting ability. Small, sharp, light, contrasty and distortion-free. Pricewise you should be able to pick one up for a fraction of the cost new. Forget about people asking $3k, $4k, $5k for this lens used - they’re on the Koolade. The last few sold on GetDPI (months ago) went for the low $2k range, so today I’d expect to pay $2k or less for a nice example. There are a couple on eBay right now struggling to get through the $1k barrier.

    So, TC + S/K 35mm + adapter plate = $6k. If you can get the TC and adapter plate used, the kit would probably be under $5k.

    Jim
    Jim

    Thanks for your input. Its certainly an interesting proposition - worth considering.

    I've seen Dan Lindberg's posts/images with 35XL + Credo 60. His results certainly speak for themselves - a lot of that is on account of Dan's keen eye and artistic vision and execution though, not necessarily attributable to his 35XL. But if its good enough for him its probably pretty good.

    Others have opinions about 35XL's optical quality with 60 mpix backs?

    Regards
    -Jawad
    Last edited by Jamgolf; 4th December 2014 at 16:40.

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    I shot with the 35XL for a few years until recently using both cropped MFDBs and IQ160 & IQ260. It's a great optic, just like all the other Schneider APO Digitars. The only downside with the lens for me was that movements were limited to about 8mm of rise/fall on a 60mp back and that it absolutely needed the center filter. Go beyond that and the LCC correction gets ugly. Optically mine was very sharp and was second only to my 23HR & 90HR Rodenstocks but better than my other Schneiders. It is also nice and compact, easy to use and basically a nice small package to use.

    It's a great lens within it's limitations and is still FAR better than any DSLR alternative. The Rodie 40HR is just better ... but remember what level you are comparing at here though. We're in the A -> A++ level, not A -> C-.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    I shot with a 35XL for many years beginning first with a P45+ then P65 and later an IQ160 all with a Cambo WRS. Decent enough lens however I quickly found I needed to keep the CF on all the time. Movements weren't too bad either. This is one lens that requires a LCC shot for each movement so if I were taking a three row piano I needed 6-shots, 3-image files and 3-LCC files. Good enough lens but after several years of use I decided I needed something more/better and opted for the 40 HR t/s which needs no CF and in every instance so far I haven't seen a huge demand of shooting a LCC.

    Bottom line is the 35 is slightly wider than the 40, costs much less however needs the CF for a good file and is more time consuming taking in account the constant need of LCCs. I understand you have a 60 megapixel now however if in the future you have lust in your heart for an 80 then you'll end up like me and have to make the switch. All this said it is a decent enough lens.

    After having the 40 on both the 160 and now on the 180 I can say that I truly enjoy what I'm getting from this lens no matter the back.

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well that's the GetDPI way and your hearing from some of our great members here. Not sure anyone mentioned this but try and decide your final lens count as this gaps differently for a 3 or 4 lens kit. I went in the end with 3 , 28,60,90 but you will see some folks go 23,40,70,120 or put the the 32 in place of the 40.

    The 40 is pretty much a standard focal length too regardless of size of sensor. If I had to guess I would say out of 3 than 2 would have the 40 and 1 would have the 32.

    Really depends on your shooting subject too.
    No 35 option? How is the 35XL on a 33MP 36x48mm back with the Dalsa sensor, for example?

    By the way, happy birthday Guy!
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    I just have to remark on this thread. I normally tire quickly of threads asking for help and the thread just goes to hell. This thread hasn't. Somehow we've managed to keep it civil and helpful to not only the OP but anyone else looking to dive into the deep end of the pool.

    I'm seeing a lot of good ideas coming out and almost no brand bashing.

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    to what Don said.

    One of the great pleasures also from shooting tech systems is the first day when you go out and fire up the MFDB, tech body and take your first shot with your new Schneider or Rodie wide and then open up the image in Capture One and zoom in. "Holy [email protected]@p" is a very common first statement when you see what these things can really do.

    After some five years or so I'm still saying it ...

    And then, Dante rubs his hands with glee because the pit just opened and you're now staring into it for another qualitative gear fix - that #2 longer/wider lens, the tilt capability, if my old Schneider is this good just how good is that $9k Rodenstock?, and so you plummet

    (It probably explains the number of audiophile medium format shooters I've met too)
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Ditto to Don's and Graham's comments on the 35XL. On a 60MP back. The 35XL does much better on shifts with the P45+, at least 12mm or a bit more. I only was able to use mine a few times on my P45+ before I upgraded to the 160.

    I would agree 8mm with sky and maybe 10mm at F16, with no sky. The LCC correction does get ugly and you also will tend to see the mircrolens ripple issue on shifts. CF costs you 2.5 stops of exposure and on a IQ non CMOS back, at iso 50 or 35 (180 backs), this means you will be shooting in the 1/15 or longer shutter speeds. Often I can't go there due to wind, so I will take the 40mm HR-W knowing I can get by with a faster shutter speed.

    Upside is cost, weight and size, as on the Arca R mount it's almost a shirt pocket lens, without the CF on. I still keep mine around for when I know I am going to shoot at the sun as I just don't have a lot of luck with the 40mm Rod, without really harsh flare. Others seem to get better results.

    I see quite a bit of color cast on my 40mm rod even on center, and find I do need an LCC more often than not. If sky is involved, for sure.

    I also feel that C1 doesn't quite get the color cast issues corrected, on shifts with my 40mm as I still often times will see a blue hue shift. With C1 8, this is much easier to fix as you now have the WB adjustments in layers (local adjustments).

    Both the 35XL and 40 HR-W benefit from tilt when working close in. 35XL seems best at F11 to F16 for me, where as the 40 HR-W is really quite good wide open to F11.

    Paul
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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Don, a keeper for sure. Also looks like I can live with the DR of my CCD 180 for a while
    I know the CMOS d800 is supposed to beat the 180, but I just don't see it. I shoot both of them (zeiss glass on the nikon) and they're both really good with dynamic range. Some serious pixel peeping might show a difference, but I don't think I could see it in prints.
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    The SK35XL is an excellent lens, but be aware that it does have a fairly large curvature of the field of focus. On the Alpa it "focuses" beyond "infinity" - depending on what you want in focus - edges or center. In practical use it's not a problem at all IMHO, but something to be aware of. On a 33x44 sensor there is no need for center filter. The super thin/light weight SK24XL is sharper than the 35 - but of course only offer very limited movement even on the cropped sensor. Good luck with your selection.

    Cheers, -Peter
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    I also have the 35XL in my arsenal and for its limited use it is a great lens. I don't use it for landscape but more for those times when I need a wider field of view with an interior shot or a garden shot at about 20 feet. It does have a unique convex field curvature which I had to get used to but at f11 its a killer lens. I don't use the CF anymore as I have found that I can get just as good results in post. As with any used lens you should test for alignment and the lens should be returnable within a short period of time.

    Victor
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    One of the great pleasures also from shooting tech systems is the first day when you go out and fire up the MFDB, tech body and take your first shot with your new Schneider or Rodie wide and then open up the image in Capture One and zoom in. "Holy [email protected]@p" is a very common first statement when you see what these things can really do.
    Amen to that!
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    I know the CMOS d800 is supposed to beat the 180, but I just don't see it. I shoot both of them (zeiss glass on the nikon) and they're both really good with dynamic range. Some serious pixel peeping might show a difference, but I don't think I could see it in prints.
    Wayne I agree with you when both cameras are at base ISO. But do you feel the same when shooting the 180 at 200? To me the CMOS offers a lot more flexibility for landscape shooting. Low light, or wind or both. Optically the 180 with a tech lens is an excellent solution especially wides.

    Paul

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 125

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    I know the CMOS d800 is supposed to beat the 180, but I just don't see it. I shoot both of them (zeiss glass on the nikon) and they're both really good with dynamic range. Some serious pixel peeping might show a difference, but I don't think I could see it in prints.
    You will see significant difference in the long exposure territory. The D800E can bash the IQ260 and the IQ280 hard if you shoot directly into the sun and do long exposure of over 2 minutes.

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    I know the CMOS d800 is supposed to beat the 180, but I just don't see it. I shoot both of them (zeiss glass on the nikon) and they're both really good with dynamic range. Some serious pixel peeping might show a difference, but I don't think I could see it in prints.
    Agreed. I shoot the D800/D800E/A7R as well, and another difference for me is that I can do a lot more with the IQ180 file in C1P before it starts falling apart, when compared to the files from my other cameras.

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 125

    Quote Originally Posted by voidshatter View Post
    You will see significant difference in the long exposure territory. The D800E can bash the IQ260 and the IQ280 hard if you shoot directly into the sun and do long exposure of over 2 minutes.
    I agree, but these are the situations when I would shoot the Nikon or Sony A7R, and who knows perhaps a FF CMOS MFDB down the road. However, there are several occasions when I'd rather shoot the IQ180. Horses for courses as they say...

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I'm not saying that you can't but I'll be mighty impressed if you do ...
    I was a bit off - a quick search of GetDPI and here's a sale from last year: TC + S/K 35mm + adapter plate ... all for $4200 (TC @ 1200, SK 35 @ 2400 and plate @ 600).

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    I see quite a bit of color cast on my 40mm rod even on center, and find I do need an LCC more often than not. If sky is involved, for sure.

    Paul
    Agreed. There are times when you don't see the need to use an LCC, and then once you realize it, weeks, months or even years later, you are kicking yourself, as the color imbalance is *all* you can see.

    Even if you are straight shooting, with no movements, take an hour to make some LCC frames for your LCC preset library at major apertures/distances. You'll regret it later if you don't: once that back is gone or traded up, you'll never be able to make an LCC again. (LCCs are unique to each specific individual back, not the model type)

  40. #140
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    True enough, I started keeping a library shortly after getting the P45+. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it....
    Don Libby
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Drum roll ... It will be 32mm + Cambo 1200 (possibly RC400)
    Thank you for letting me pick your brains and indulging in my rigmarole.

    So I pondered over this a lot and lost sleep analyzing so many variables:
    HPF rings and their advantages, center filters and their consequences, lens field of view, weight + size and their effect on usability, camera tactile feedback, lens image circles, possible camera movements, image quality and finally what I can afford.

    I looked at tech camera images thread many times with critical eye. I tried to look past artistic vision and cut through to image quality alone i.e. Does an image look good because of composition, technique, post processing skills etc. or is it optically superior.

    I also looked at hundreds of my own images to determine which focal length I most used, enjoyed most and missed not having in certain situations.

    I also contacted members who own 32mm HR and did not post directly in this thread and asked how they felt. Its a resounding and unanimous thumbs up, and some of them own quite a few other lenses too.

    Choice of Cambo is simply a compromise, for me. In an ideal world I would get Alpa STC. I really want it, but the cost difference is ~$6K and unfortunately despite my father's persistent advice to become a doctor, I became an engineer, so too late now - I just can't afford everything [kidding]

    So I'm simply spending more money on glass than on a camera body. Something I have always done.

    Thanks again everyone. You've been great.
    Now on to ordering this equipment.

    Sincerely
    -Jawad
    Last edited by Jamgolf; 6th December 2014 at 14:14.
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  42. #142
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Spending more (much more) money on glass than the camera is just a way of life in Dante's neighborhood.

    Speaking solely from a Cambo experience I'd say there was no compromise. In the end all of them are good, it's what you do with them what's will make them great.

    Congratulations and now we'll be looking forward to the images being shared.

    don
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  43. #143
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Spending more (much more) money on glass than the camera is just a way of life in Dante's neighborhood.

    Speaking solely from a Cambo experience I'd say there was no compromise. In the end all of them are good, it's what you do with them what's will make them great.

    Congratulations and now we'll be looking forward to the images being shared.

    don
    Thanks Don.
    Yes, you are right about Cambo not being a compromise. It actually has more functionality: simultaeous tilt + swing + rise/fall + shift.
    I meant a compromise (to me) in terms of the way it felt to me for tactile feedback and feeling.
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    You will never regret your choice of Cambo..... if I had it to do all over again that would more than likely be my choice.

    Happy shooting.....

    Victor
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by narikin View Post

    Even if you are straight shooting, with no movements, take an hour to make some LCC frames for your LCC preset library at major apertures/distances. You'll regret it later if you don't: once that back is gone or traded up, you'll never be able to make an LCC again. (LCCs are unique to each specific individual back, not the model type)
    Couldn't agree more..... its not necessary to make an LCC for each situation but rather a Library makes the most sense and is how I have approached this issue.

    Victor
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  46. #146
    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    One thing that seems "loose" about the Cambos is the tilt/swing adjustment. It has a dead zone around zero that feels odd, but is deliberate and guarantees by feel that the setting is really zeroed. I had mixed feelings about the build quality until that was explained to me, as it was so different from every other adjustment.

    --Matt

    I should add that I *do* own a Cambo WRS AE and it is one of the (few) pieces of equipment about which I have no reservations.
    Last edited by MGrayson; 6th December 2014 at 13:21.
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    I've mentioned it before, I've had the WRS since the fall of 2008, used it with a 28, 35, 40, 72, and a 120mm lens along with 4-different backs (P45, P65, IQ160 and now a IQ180). In hot desert to cold mountains, blowing sand storms, sleet, snow, rain - okay you get the point. Six-years later it is still just as good as the day it arrived. The only thing I've done to it in all the time I've had it was install wooden handles. In the meantime I can't (actually don't want to) think of the other cameras I've had thinking they were just as good. There're might be better bodies, they might look better/more sexy and they might offer a little more however I've been very happy and don't see any reason in the future not to be.

    You can call me a fanboy but please do it to my face.

    I'm equally certain there's others with other gear that feel just as I do; what works for you is the best there is.
    Don Libby
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  48. #148
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    I should add that I *do* own a Cambo WRS AE and it is one of the (few) pieces of equipment about which I have no reservations.
    Actually I held the WRS AE when I visited CI. It felt really good. I think it felt much better than the 1250.
    I am thinking whether its worth while to spend extra there and get WRS AE instead of WRS 1200. Not sure though.
    Last edited by Jamgolf; 6th December 2014 at 14:16.

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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    will you get the center filter for the 32mm? i think it is over 1200 bucks!

  50. #150
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    Re: Deciding between Alpa TC, STC or Cambo 1250

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    will you get the center filter for the 32mm? i think it is over 1200 bucks!
    Yes - I am planning to get the CF. It costs $940 (my all time favorite lens, Leica Summicron-R 50mm cost me ~$500) - wow ...

    On that note, Paul Caldwell said: "Where as on the 32mm on center, you should easily be able to shoot with no CF."

    Does 32mm not really need a CF in unshifted/centered position.
    Not losing 2.5 stop when centered would actually be great.
    Last edited by Jamgolf; 6th December 2014 at 17:13.

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