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CFV50c Images

darr

Well-known member
This is one of the most exciting things I have seen all year.
Thank you for sharing Georgia. As a tech cam user I would be interested to see how this handles movements.

You are welcome Dogs. I do like your name as I have three dogs. :OT:
I admire Georgia for her work, but my mother named me Darlene as Steve has pointed out, but Darr will do as well.

Movements ... the cemetery photo has x and y movements. I did plan on shooting a brick wall with the 47mm for tjv, but Tallahassee got three days of continuous rain (and flooding) last week when I planned on doing it, so it did not happen. I will get to it as soon as I can. Until then, Happy New Year!
 

jlm

Workshop Member
with a bit o'luck, i may be able to snap a few images with my 205FCC/CFV50c rig today! been quite hectic
 

richardman

Well-known member
So how much does one "leave on the table" by using a high res state of the art CMOS back with 50+ years old Hasselblad lens? (vs. using it with a techcam and latest digital lens)

Not that I can afford this, even with the "low" pricing, but one can dream right? :)
 

tjv

Active member
I'm looking forward to hearing some real world accounts of tech movement performance with regards to colour cast etc. I've done the maths and the max I need is 12-14mm rise/fall, sometimes 6mm rise/fall plus upto 6mm shift.
 

jlm

Workshop Member
got out a bit, low temps in NYC!
110/f11; shot holding sideways (curse of the V) from my sunroof, standing on the seat
 

darr

Well-known member
ALPA Schneider Apo-Digitar 5.6/47 mm XL LCC
For lens info see here.

Finally got the weather, time and place to shoot LCC files with the SK 47mm f/5.6 as per request. This was not the place I had in mind, but I was able to squeeze it in as the sun was headed towards the horizon. Files were uploaded in Phocus, LCCs were made and applied, then off to Lightroom for minor adjustments. I did not want to play with the files and I know if I did, I would have made the WB and exposure better in the extreme shifts.



(+) Right Horizontal Shift Increments, (-) Vertical Fall/Drop Increments

The ALPA Max does +/- 18mm shifts, but the 18mm looks similar to the 15mm and see no reason to post it. I do not think this particular lens design is suppose to be as good as the retro designs, but the engineers can chime in on that. For my needs, post-processing cleans up the LCC well enough. Like many things in photography, we all have unique needs and for me I prefer the SK lenses mainly for size and weight and will continue to use them with the 50c.


EDIT: The lens was clean (no filtration), set to f/11 and focused to infinity, and was wearing a rubber lens hood. :)
 
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torger

Active member
I think the LCC looks to be within reason, nice. When you see a yellow "cigar" you're pushing it a bit too far (a different color when shifted in the other direction), and it seems like that one is just outside below the frame in the -15 LCC shot, so the LCC shots indicate that the results should be fine.

It's nice to see how it performs with this economical symmetrical lens, as all other tests shown has been on much more expensive Rodenstock lenses.

Here's an excellent thread showing shifts for some of those Digaron wides, including how it looks when pushed too far (yellow cigar area visible in the LCC shot), it's done on the IQ250 but as it's the same sensor LCC performance is equivalent:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-digital-backs/52000-lcc-23hr-35hr-40hr-iq250.html
Even when pushed "too far" you can have good results, but it becomes subject dependent.
 

Dogs857

New member
Thank you Darlene

This is very interesting. It seems they might be a bit more tech friendly than first thought. My Schneider wides may still be out of range but it is good to see this shifted. Both from you and from the work of void shatter as well.

I can't afford to buy at the moment and my P45+ will be with me for a bit, but at least this shows some good options are out there.

Now we just have to hope Phase/Leaf drop prices a bit to match and the game is on.

Congratulations on your new back, I'm sure you will get great use from it.
 

tjv

Active member
Awesome, thanks!
From what I see on my laptop screen it seems that somewhere close to 10mm might be the limit if colour depth is important, do you think? As Anders has said above, tests indicate that the colours clean up nicely with larger movements but perhaps at the expense of saturation, etc? What are your feelings, Darr?
I'm torn. The more frugal side of my brain tells me that this back, even at the higher price of $15.5K USD is a great option and would suit me well, going to 400ISO and especially with live view on back. The practical side of my brain tells me that I'd be better served investing in a used H4/5D-50 – as Anders has – so I have the option of using a modern SLR solution when I need it. If I go this way, I have better performance on larger movements and the extra camera platform, but only really 100ISO and must put up with the ground glass on my Techno...
Decisions, decisions...
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Darr, thanks for posting the comparisons.

There does seem to be a hue shift in the blue, from the 0 to 15+ shift, but it's a bit hard to tell. It would be interesting to know how easily the 15mm shift and 0 base image combined, i.e. in the sky. The clouds always help in a blend, as a pure blue becomes quite difficult to combine at times.

I have looked many times at the Voidshatter testing, and each time I look at the 250/40mm rise fall shots, you see a lot of red shift in the blue of the sky, even at the 15mm, and by 25mm it's excessive to me. Where as the 260 seems to hold a much more true blue hue (better than my back does and I own a 260).

Of course when shifting, the 50MP chip allows a lot more shifting +25mm, before you hit the disc that creates the hard vignette. Where as the 260 shows it much faster and in Voidshatter's testing you can see just how much the STUPID disc damages the shot. This is a problem will all the Rodenstocks.

It's too bad the rental policy of US dealers makes it so hard to rent such a back, (250 or 150 or credo 50). At least it's never been possible for me with my current set of insurance. I would love to test one of the 50MP backs in the field.

Paul
 

darr

Well-known member
I think the LCC looks to be within reason, nice. When you see a yellow "cigar" you're pushing it a bit too far (a different color when shifted in the other direction), and it seems like that one is just outside below the frame in the -15 LCC shot, so the LCC shots indicate that the results should be fine.

It's nice to see how it performs with this economical symmetrical lens, as all other tests shown has been on much more expensive Rodenstock lenses.

Here's an excellent thread showing shifts for some of those Digaron wides, including how it looks when pushed too far (yellow cigar area visible in the LCC shot), it's done on the IQ250 but as it's the same sensor LCC performance is equivalent:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-digital-backs/52000-lcc-23hr-35hr-40hr-iq250.html
Even when pushed "too far" you can have good results, but it becomes subject dependent.
Always enjoy your commentary and viewpoints Anders, thank you!

Kind regards,
Darr
 

darr

Well-known member
Awesome, thanks!
From what I see on my laptop screen it seems that somewhere close to 10mm might be the limit if colour depth is important, do you think?
I think a 10mm shift would be my limit if the files required purist scrutiny, which is not how I shoot these days.

As Anders has said above, tests indicate that the colours clean up nicely with larger movements but perhaps at the expense of saturation, etc? What are your feelings, Darr?
I think anytime we need to add or subtract color/light, there is a price to pay for it in the chain somewhere if you look for it. But as Anders points out, it becomes subject dependent.


I'm torn. The more frugal side of my brain tells me that this back, even at the higher price of $15.5K USD is a great option and would suit me well, going to 400ISO and especially with live view on back.
There is nothing wrong with being frugal! When I first read about the IQ250, I saw its potential in my work, but felt it was overpriced and soon realized the Sony sensor was the heart of the unit. I then hoped another manufacturer would use the same sensor in their digital back and bring fair competition to the table. I, like many others have felt MFD has been controlled by an oligopoly market structure, dominated by a small number of sellers and manufacturers which naturally reduced the competition and lead to higher prices, so I was delighted when Hasselblad developed the 50c. I actually paid $12k for the back (+$50 shipping), so I am grateful that Hasselblad has IMO made a bold and much needed market uproar with the 50c. I do not see how the MFD market can expect consumers to pay $35k+ for the IQ250, and believe in due time MFD will become more affordable.

The practical side of my brain tells me that I'd be better served investing in a used H4/5D-50 – as Anders has – so I have the option of using a modern SLR solution when I need it. If I go this way, I have better performance on larger movements and the extra camera platform, but only really 100ISO and must put up with the ground glass on my Techno...
Decisions, decisions...
My priorities for the 50c purchase was for Live View (LV) and higher ISO, not extreme movements. If you get the chance to try the LV out, it may change your mind for you. My current projects require me to be on location, and to shoot in a reportage-type style, but with a tripod if necessary. After using the 50c with my tech camera, I told myself this back just needs to be attached to a camera body and never come off, so I recently placed an order for an ALPA TC. I believe in the possibilities of the LV and the CMOS files. Now, I am not using this back to its full potential yet. One link in the chain that is missing is me being able to use Phocus for its full potential. I have not had the time to devote to it, and I know I am missing something not using it.

Decisions, decisions... FWIW: I am a business woman first, an artist second and a technician after that. I asked myself after I first read about the IQ250 and thought I may be looking at acquiring one: Of all the digital file types I have used and manipulated (CMOS, CCD, Foveon), which digital files came out of my camera the prettiest (the artist)? I was quick to say my D700 files, but surprised because SLR-type cameras are my least favorite (the technician). I probably sold the least used D700 in history, and I regret it every time I look at my D700 files, but knew it had to go from lack of use (the business woman). So maybe you can ask yourself those types of questions and find where the scales need to be balanced.

Kind regards,
Darr
 

darr

Well-known member
Darr, thanks for posting the comparisons.

There does seem to be a hue shift in the blue, from the 0 to 15+ shift, but it's a bit hard to tell. It would be interesting to know how easily the 15mm shift and 0 base image combined, i.e. in the sky. The clouds always help in a blend, as a pure blue becomes quite difficult to combine at times.

I have looked many times at the Voidshatter testing, and each time I look at the 250/40mm rise fall shots, you see a lot of red shift in the blue of the sky, even at the 15mm, and by 25mm it's excessive to me. Where as the 260 seems to hold a much more true blue hue (better than my back does and I own a 260).

Of course when shifting, the 50MP chip allows a lot more shifting +25mm, before you hit the disc that creates the hard vignette. Where as the 260 shows it much faster and in Voidshatter's testing you can see just how much the STUPID disc damages the shot. This is a problem will all the Rodenstocks.

It's too bad the rental policy of US dealers makes it so hard to rent such a back, (250 or 150 or credo 50). At least it's never been possible for me with my current set of insurance. I would love to test one of the 50MP backs in the field.

Paul
Come to Tallahassee and we'll go out to the NWR that is close by and you can shoot with the 50c till your heart's content. I certainly understand how you feel. I was a bit stressed purchasing the back from an eBay Japanese dealer, but I had a feeling deep inside it was going to be okay.

I do not have the time at the moment to play with the files, but I will shoot just sky and clouds in the near future with movements and send them to you so you can see for yourself what the potentialities of the files are.

Kind regards,
Darr
 
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