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Thread: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

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    ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    Hi!

    I'm collecting my gear, so Could you advice me please. It would be better to fight with the ambient light with higher shutter (LS lens, not HSS) or would be better to do it with ND filter ?

    Paul

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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    Paul, need a little more information; are you shooting landscape, fashion with lights, inside/outdoors, etc.

    Don
    Don Libby
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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    in 90% outdoor and portraits and some landscapes (travel photography). I use P25+ and 645df+.

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    You should have a set of ND filters in your bag (or a Vario-ND), or at least a polarizing filter for your lenses. If you will be shooting primarily under ambient light conditions and expect the sun to suit your required shutter speed, that would be impracticable IMO. Another factor that will happen over time, you will want to control the shutter speed (i.e., waterfalls, etc.) to get the image you pre-visualize, and the tools for that is ND filtration if the appropriate f/stop is not available.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    I forgot to mention, that I use one strobe as well.

    but from a technical point of view, could you explain me, what benefits are shooting with ND filter if we compare it to shooting with LS (leaf shutter).

    in first situation with ND filter I will lose more power for strobe to dim ambient light, in the second I can dim ambient light with LS and save that power.

    both ways go to the same point, am I right ? the output image should be the same..

    therefore LS lens or ND filter ?

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    Are you referring to using the leaf shutter for dragging shutter to darken background? If so, then do not over complicate your exposure ratio by using a ND filter.

    No need to use ND filter in studio where you can control exposure.

    Use a ND filter when you cannot achieve a slower shutter speed due to ambient light.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    Theres a couple cons about using an ND filter, first the AF will start to struggle, specially in overcast/dim light or with a very strong ND filter. Second, if you don't use a good ND filter the bokeh will render a texture. I once used a Vari ND filter and the bokeh was really distracting, also you will end up with a loss of sharpness. Also the ND filter will add a tint to the images, it doesn't matter for me but it's an extra step in post to correct that.

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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    Here's a couple examples of the texture of an ND filter.


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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    Please take the following into account that I am primarily a landscape, nature as well as limited wildlife photographer using both a tech camera as well as a DF. I carry ND as well as a big stopper filter with me when I go out and occasionally use them on both systems depending on the situation at hand. I currently also have 2-LS lenses in 55 and 240. My light source is always whatever is available to me at the time since I don't normally use any type of flash. (While I do own a flash I only use it when shooting macro with my 120mm macro lens).

    I totally agree with Darr that you should have a set of filters with you. Better to have them and not need them (or use them) than need them and not have them. Hope that makes sense...

    I also normally throw out any type of rulebook when I shoot as I go after what I'm looking for at the moment not what that rulebook says I should do. Again I hope that makes sense. One of my most often used lens happens to be a 55LS that I've used to capture landscape, sunrises and sunsets as well as "smoking-water" all using a combination of no filters or ND or a big stopper. I try like hell not to have a preconceived notion of what I want preferring to let the circumstances dictate what I'm about to do. Any while there's a lot you can do in post it's better to have the tools with you in order to capture in-camera than yo force something in post.

    So in the end, based on landscape outdoor shooting I'd recommend both.

    Hope this helps....

    don
    Don Libby
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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    I did some test. 645df+ with P25+, 80mm LS, iso100

    photo 1

    f/8
    1/8s

    photo 2

    f/8
    1s
    ND filter Lee 0.9

    The difference is in contrast.

    and to the point..

    from some time I've been thinking to change the system into Pentax 645Z. It have only 125 shutter sync, but with ND filters I can handle that.

    The sensor of P25+ is big and I really like it.. Pentax 645Z have 44x33 sensor. The difference wil be in DOF. But does this difference is big ? and whether the change is worth it.. this is a second question.. and I need to find answer for.

    source files:

    http://www.wagabundo.pl/inne/CF001605.IIQ
    http://www.wagabundo.pl/inne/CF001606.IIQ

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    Quote Originally Posted by wagabundo View Post

    The sensor of P25+ is big and I really like it.. Pentax 645Z have 44x33 sensor. The difference wil be in DOF. But does this difference is big ? and whether the change is worth it.. this is a second question.. and I need to find answer for.
    The sensor size of the P25+ is ~ 49x37 which is about the same size of my P45. I recently acquired a 50c which has a 44x33 sensor. The biggest difference I see is my SK 28mm lens' FOV was more like a 20mm on FF Nikon when used with P45, but now is similar to a 22mm FOV on the 50c. Not a big deal for me when I factor in the other reasons for the upgrade such as Live View, Higher ISO/DR and CMOS. It is a personal choice IMO.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    The crop on the P45+ is a 1:1 or 10% less than a full frame sensor like the IQ180 Dalsa chip. The newer 50 MP chips are 1:3 or a 30% crop of a full frame sensor.

    If you shoot wide a lot which I do the crop is a big consideration. I was able to work with the P45 crop much easier but it did burn me on a few shots as I never added a mask to my DF body.

    This post from getdpi shows an excellent comparison between the full frame and cropped sensor and gives an idea of the focal range lost between the two sensors when using the 23HR.

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-f...0hr-iq250.html

    Paul
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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    Paul, what light are you using?
    With LS lenses it's important to use strobe with fast flash duration. My P30+ maximum sync speed is 1/800th of a second and I use Elinchrom Ranger Speed AS with S head. With Pocket Wizard Plus II, Flex TT5 or Mini TT1 I was only able to get maximum speed of 1/640th of a second with about 2-3 stops of loss of power of my light. Though I was able to reach 1/800th being hard wired to the power pack and the loss of the flash power was much less.

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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    Quote Originally Posted by kravetzphoto View Post
    Paul, what light are you using?
    With LS lenses it's important to use strobe with fast flash duration. My P30+ maximum sync speed is 1/800th of a second and I use Elinchrom Ranger Speed AS with S head. With Pocket Wizard Plus II, Flex TT5 or Mini TT1 I was only able to get maximum speed of 1/640th of a second with about 2-3 stops of loss of power of my light. Though I was able to reach 1/800th being hard wired to the power pack and the loss of the flash power was much less.
    I haven't experimented with this too much, but one of the dealers has a webpage that details the equipment compatible with the LS sync, basically the TT1/TT5 (also have them) take too long to trigger the strobes. If you use the pocketwizard plus iii on "fast" mode it should be fine, or the good old optical trigger (or synch cord of course).

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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    The least expensive studio strobe that can take advantage of, or rather utilize the high flash sync capabilities of Phase/SK LS lenses wirelessly--- is the Einstein with their cybersync transmitter and transceiver.

    ken

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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    And Profoto Airsync also works wirelessly up to maximum 1/1600th sec (if you're using the right back).

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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    Quote Originally Posted by jianghai View Post
    I haven't experimented with this too much, but one of the dealers has a webpage that details the equipment compatible with the LS sync, basically the TT1/TT5 (also have them) take too long to trigger the strobes. If you use the pocketwizard plus iii on "fast" mode it should be fine, or the good old optical trigger (or synch cord of course).
    I heard that too about Plus III as well as MultiMax. Would you mind sharing link to the page, please?

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    See, https://captureintegration.com/defin...SyncSpeedTable

    Includes discussion on PW in fast mode.

    ken

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    Re: ND filter or high shutter speed LS

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    See, https://captureintegration.com/defin...SyncSpeedTable

    Includes discussion on PW in fast mode.

    ken

    Thank you, Ken!

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