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Thread: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

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    Senior Member Jamgolf's Avatar
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    90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    So I've got a Cambo 1200 and Credo 60 but no lens ... since Rodenstock 32mm is back-ordered

    While I am waiting for my 32mm to arrive I have been thinking about a second lens. I think I'll stick to a 2-lens kit, so I have been contemplating either a 70mm HR or 90mm HRSW - but can't decide and am hoping to get some advice on this.

    90mm SW is obviously more expensive and larger but optically superior and has a much bigger image circle. I am leaning toward 90mm but the general opinion seems to be that for longer focal lengths, the difference between a tech-camera lens and a MF-DSLR lens is minimal - so I wonder about the wisdom of such a premium.

    70mm HR also has a decent image circle is smaller and seems to be optically pretty good.

    I've evaluated my image library and notice a lot of shots that I like happen to be in the 45mm-55mm range. So both 70mm HR (~43mm equivalent) and 90mm SW (~56mm equivalent) should work.

    Any practical experiences and observations with these lenses or focal lengths in field use?
    Preferences - one over the other?

    Cheers!

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    i have the rodi 70 T/S for sale right now (for Cambo)

    a particularly nice lens. i used it more than the 120mm SK, but that is pretty subjective
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    The difference will be less, however if you still want movements, shift or rise fall and not worry about correction for parallax, then the 90 Rod or 70mm Rod are both excellent.

    One note, I have not use the latest, HRSW 90mm, as it's just too expensive for a focal range I don't use that much @ 7 to 8 K at least on an Arca mount and I am pretty sure if you add a T/S mount to the Cambo it will come close. Both the HR and HR-W versions of this lens will get a ghost flare that will basically ruin a shot. It happens with no warning and you need to watch for it. The ghosting till effect a large part of the image mainly in the contrast and it's very hard to get it back. This Not the same type of flare that a 23 HR or 40 HR-W will show. Use of lens hood can help, but there are times where you are shooting, where it seems the sky somehow will reflect back inside the elements and ghost. My 90mm HR does this quite a bit and I had hope that Schneider was going forward with their 100mm, but it seems that they are not.

    Some report that the HRSW yellow band version has some improvements on the ghosting. I have never used one so I can't report.

    As far as optical quality, the 90mm HR is excellent so I can't imagine the HRSW's quality. However for sure you would get very close with a 110mm Schneider LS lens. But no movements and back to the DF+ or DF body.

    Paul
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    Senior Member Jamgolf's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    i have the rodi 70 T/S for sale right now (for Cambo)

    a particularly nice lens. i used it more than the 120mm SK, but that is pretty subjective
    Yes I have been watching your 70 mm HR
    I am surprised actually that its still available.

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamgolf View Post
    So I've got a Cambo 1200 and Credo 60 but no lens ... since Rodenstock 32mm is back-ordered
    Cost and focal length aside I'd go for the 90HR-SW over the 70HR. They are both excellent lenses, but the 90HR-SW is part of the new UBER-good class of tech cam lenses along with the 32HR, 60XL, and 120ASPH.

    Also: as of this morning we (Digital Transitions) have a 32HR for Cambo in stock and ready to ship.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    90HR is the sharpest lens I've ever used...Point.

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Paul:
    The ghosting you describe would be quite troublesome, especially at such a high price point.
    I wonder if 90mm SW is any better in that respect.


    shortpballer:
    Thanks for your input.
    I've actually seen you make the same comment in several threads. So that indicates you've been consistently impressed with the lens.
    Have you ever observed the ghosting that Paul (and others) have experienced with older 90mm HR?
    I notice that most of your (posted) work is indoors, have you used your 90mm for landscapes or cityscapes?
    What are your thoughts in such usage?
    Thanks
    Last edited by Jamgolf; 14th January 2015 at 10:08.

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Cost and focal length aside I'd go for the 90HR-SW over the 70HR. They are both excellent lenses, but the 90HR-SW is part of the new UBER-good class of tech cam lenses along with the 32HR, 60XL, and 120ASPH.
    Thanks for your input Doug.
    What are your thoughts in regards to the ghosting reported with previous versions of 90mm?
    Does SW version correct that?

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    I have not noticed significant ghosting like the old HR. There are some lens flare issues that can be easily solved with a lee filter hood

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    I don't know if someone mentioned this already, but the size of the 90HRSW and the 70mm are not even close. The 90 is quite a bit bigger and heavier.

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by shortpballer View Post
    I don't know if someone mentioned this already, but the size of the 90HRSW and the 70mm are not even close. The 90 is quite a bit bigger and heavier.

    I realize that. I think 70mm is quite compact (for a Rodenstock) and 90mm with its spacer would be quite a bit larger.

    I've never seen one personally, or even a picture of one. Do you happen to have a picture that provides an idea of its magnitude?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Jamgolf; 14th January 2015 at 15:48.

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    It may or may not be a concern to the user (it is to me---and I still would love the 90HRSW) but keep in mind you do have the rear extension to attach to the Cambo body and then reattach your MFDB. I'd rather keep it simple, especially in the field.

    HR70 t/s is excellent and plays very well. No extension needed. I went with the HR70 and am extremely happy.

    ken

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamgolf View Post
    I realize that. I think 70mm is quite compact (for a Rodenstock) and 90mm with its spacer would be quite a bit larger.

    I've never seen one personally, or even a picture of one. Do you happen to have a picture that provides and idea of its magnitude?

    Thanks
    Weight and physical length (meaning how dimensionally long the lens is from rear lens element to front lens element, not it's focal length) for each lens can be found here:

    Tech Camera Overview
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    I'd go for the 90HRSW (BTW, I'm not sure the you're going to get this any sooner than the 32HR, I waited quite some time for mine).

    Second option for the same money would be to get the new versions of the SK60 AND SK120 ASPH. Both very sharp and quite small. Both also have very large IC's (120mm for the SK60 and 150mm for the SK120).

    One other point to consider is that the 90HR (previous version) 70HR and 60XL do not need a back/lens extension. This makes life simpler for both transport and use.

    The new 90HRSW and the SK120 need extensions.
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamgolf View Post
    I realize that. I think 70mm is quite compact (for a Rodenstock) and 90mm with its spacer would be quite a bit larger.

    I've never seen one personally, or even a picture of one. Do you happen to have a picture that provides and idea of its magnitude?

    Thanks
    I'd have to look to see if I have a picture of it on my camera. I think they have one on Alpa's website.

    But here is a picture of the lens by itself on my website. This is alpa mount, so not sure what its like on cambo mount

    Our Equipment | DosSantos – Lemone – Photography

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    I guess it depends on your shooting style.

    I would go for the 70mm myself but that is because I shoot wider and will end up with a 120mm for the long end. In fact I bought my 70mm a week before John listed his and I am still annoyed at that as I paid more for a standard lens than he is asking for his T/S mount 40/70 is a fantastic 2 lens setup, so 32/70 should match.

    How much stitching are you doing?? I have never wanted for more image circle with the 70mm, and I used to shoot it with an IQ180 on an Rm3di. Amazing optics and big circle. I guess if you are using a lot of rise/fall as well as lateral shift then the 90mm might be more effective, but it all depends on what you are doing.

    You say most of your images are in this focal range so either is going to suit you well, it depends on whether you want to be a bit wider or a bit tighter. Spend a week with a DSLR at 45mm and again at 58mm and see which suits your style better.
    Last edited by Dogs857; 14th January 2015 at 16:24.
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    the 70 T/S on the Cambo WRS
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Why not the SK72 digitar. It's small, very sharp and quite flare resistant?

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    Senior Member Jamgolf's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben730 View Post
    Why not the SK72 digitar. It's small, very sharp and quite flare resistant?
    Well, mainly because I've read/heard that the rendering (drawing) of Rodenstocks and Schneiders is a bit different and for consistency I would like to stay with Rodenstock since I already have ordered a 32mm HR.

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogs857 View Post
    How much stitching are you doing??
    At this time I am not stitching much at all.
    But everyone tells me that will change with the technical camera. 90mm does offer a much broader set of stitching possibilities, along with its reportedly stellar image quality even with large shifts. That does open up a lot of options.

    70mm HR does that too but to a lesser extent.

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    If you are not limited on price. Go with the 90HRSW. You WILL NOT be disappointed. I've used both. The 70 was a great lens. But the 90 is a WOW lens. I'm not 100 percent sure, but I think the re-sell value on the 90 will be a little better than the 70 as it is much harder to get your hands on.

    I had to make the same decision as you. I first planned on 40, 70, 120 as focal lengths.

    However, they didn't have any 70's in stock. But I had the chance of getting one of the very first 90 HR SW's so I decided on 32, 50, 90, (and now looking for a 210) - quite a bit more expensive, but a broader range and more useful for my work.

    If you are planning on tilting, the 90 is top notch corner to corner.

    Here are some photos I took of my RRS tripod.

    The full photo taken with p65+ and 90HRSW


    And a close up crop (not from same photo, but same distance and same lighting)


    And a photo with 8-10 degrees of downward tilt to get hand and glasses in focus. Taken at almost wide open (wider than f8)


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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamgolf View Post
    At this time I am not stitching much at all.
    But everyone tells me that will change with the technical camera. 90mm does offer a much broader set of stitching possibilities, along with its reportedly stellar image quality even with large shifts. That does open up a lot of options.

    70mm HR does that too but to a lesser extent.
    Ok fair enough, it certainly is addictive

    I have used the 70mm shooting landscapes and looking for the 617 crop. I tended to dial in about 5mm rise and then shift 15mm L/R on the Rm3di with the IQ180 and got great results. I would frame for the bottom of the image then crop the sky for a pano. Your Credo 60 should handle this even better than the 180 did.

    I can't comment on the 90mm as I have never used one. The 70mm is small light and extremely sharp. I dont think you would be disappointed with either lens, there are no real lemons in tech cam lenses.

    Have you considered the following:
    You can get a 70mm in T/S second hand from an apparently very respected member of this forum for a steal. Buy it, use it and give it a real honest assessment for your shooting style.if you find that you don't like it then you should be able to sell it for pretty close to what you bought it for. So long as you are not in a hurry to sell as the market is pretty small.

    I don't know John at all, but I do know a good bargain when I see one and this will get you shooting with an excellent lens.

    Just a suggestion.
    Stop chasing gear, start chasing photos instead.

    Jeff, but my friends call me Dogs
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by shortpballer View Post
    If you are not limited on price. Go with the 90HRSW. You WILL NOT be disappointed. I've used both. The 70 was a great lens. But the 90 is a WOW lens.

    If you are planning on tilting, the 90 is top notch corner to corner.
    Thanks for your input and for the photos. Very helpful.
    Yes - the ability to tilt (and shift) is the primary motivation.
    I was already leaning this way but I think you have me convinced now

    Cheers!

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Well, actually there's only one solution to this conundrum: You're just gonna have to buy both lenses.

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogs857 View Post
    Have you considered the following:
    You can get a 70mm in T/S second hand from an apparently very respected member of this forum for a steal. Buy it, use it and give it a real honest assessment for your shooting style.if you find that you don't like it then you should be able to sell it for pretty close to what you bought it for. So long as you are not in a hurry to sell as the market is pretty small.
    I had not thought about it but its an idea worth considering.
    So thanks for presenting the option.

    Achieving a 6x17 panoramic aspect ratio is something I would like to experiemnt with when an opportunity/vista presents itself. I think both 70mm and 90mm with their respective 100mm and 120mm image circles allow that. 90mm obviously has more ways to do that - but possible with both for sure.

    Thanks again.
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    you can also get the SK 120 T/S from that same good guy.
    Last edited by jlm; 15th January 2015 at 09:44.
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Well, actually there's only one solution to this conundrum: You're just gonna have to buy both lenses.
    Done. Why did I not think of this ...

    I hear there is a ski-mask or such that I can borrow ... have you got it or is it Guy who keeps it under his watchful eye?
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    the sisters: the extension required for the 120 is also shown.

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    I have the Rodenstock 70mm and the 40 (HR-W's). Both are superb lenses. I love the fact that the 70mm does not need a spacer like the longer lenses (like the 90mm and up). Makes it smaller in the pack and easier to use. It is something to consider.
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Well, actually there's only one solution to this conundrum: You're just gonna have to buy both lenses.
    Now that is the getdpi I have come to know and fear
    Stop chasing gear, start chasing photos instead.

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    I haven't read through every single post, so sorry if there's redundant information here.

    1) Please consider the weight and size, the 90 is a lot larger/heavier than the 70 and requires a longer barrel

    2) The flare issue is pretty pronounced, even though I've only shot a few images with it, as said by someone above, it comes out of nowhere, without any warning and ruins the entire shot (see attached stitch)

    3) I'm running a two lens setup which is a combination of a 32 and a 90, for me, the 70 would still be just a bit too short and because of the 90's large image circle, I find that it covers a lot of ground if you're open to stitching (also depends on your camera, as I'm using ALPA I can't comment on the CAMBO setup)

    This is my sort of first-week-experience with both lenses, so hope the fresh opinion will help you a bit.
    Binbin

    f/13 photography
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Binbin, that's a good example of the ghosting. Which version of the 90 do you have? HR, HR-W! or HRSW?

    Paul

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Binbin, that's a good example of the ghosting. Which version of the 90 do you have? HR, HR-W! or HRSW?

    Paul
    Paul, it's the one with the yellow ring, it should be the latest version (HRSW?) as it was just delivered to me last December. There were some powerful floodlights in the neighborhood, but they were all behind me so I still can't figure out where this hosting came from...

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by beano_z View Post
    I haven't read through every single post, so sorry if there's redundant information here.

    1) Please consider the weight and size, the 90 is a lot larger/heavier than the 70 and requires a longer barrel

    2) The flare issue is pretty pronounced, even though I've only shot a few images with it, as said by someone above, it comes out of nowhere, without any warning and ruins the entire shot (see attached stitch)

    3) I'm running a two lens setup which is a combination of a 32 and a 90, for me, the 70 would still be just a bit too short and because of the 90's large image circle, I find that it covers a lot of ground if you're open to stitching (also depends on your camera, as I'm using ALPA I can't comment on the CAMBO setup)

    This is my sort of first-week-experience with both lenses, so hope the fresh opinion will help you a bit.

    Binbin, thats very helpful. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
    So it appears even the new 90mm HRSW demonstrates the ghosting.
    BTW - your focal length choices and mine are identical.

    I gave this 70mm vs 90mm a lot of thought and finally ordered a 90mm HRSW yesterday.

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by beano_z View Post
    Paul, it's the one with the yellow ring, it should be the latest version (HRSW?) as it was just delivered to me last December. There were some powerful floodlights in the neighborhood, but they were all behind me so I still can't figure out where this hosting came from...
    Binbin, you are right, it's the HRSW with the yellow band. The ghosting you show, is exactly what I have gotten with my much older 90 HR. As you point out, you never know when it's going to show up. I have had images where it showed up with the sun behind me.

    From what I have been able to ascertain, certain lighting conditions will create the perfect conditions where the elements will ghost, (not sure if it's ghosting from the sensor or just the lens elements). I have seen this more often on shifting, i.e. the worst of the ghosting shows up on shifts.

    The results are very damaging to the image as I have never been able to regain the correct contrast to the areas that were effected.

    This is why when the rumors of the Schneider 100mm came out I was very interested. But it seems Schneider is not going ahead with that lens. The Schneider did not need a back extension, which made it very appealing to me.

    Paul
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    I'm more interested in the 70mm HR just for the compatibility. Weight and size matters more than optical quality for me. If Schneider offers better options I would also consider.

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    If anyone is interested I own the Schneider 100mm Digitar which is an outstanding lens and very sharp. For the life of me I don't know why it was discontinued (Maybe just Alpa) but if it were available I would recommend it without hesitation.

    Victor

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    If anyone is interested I own the Schneider 100mm Digitar which is an outstanding lens and very sharp. For the life of me I don't know why it was discontinued (Maybe just Alpa) but if it were available I would recommend it without hesitation.

    Victor
    Edit to my post. It may still be available as it's listed on the Schneider website:

    https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecom...=1326&IID=1924

    You are lucky. It was pulled pretty quickly. I heard that a large order went to China and then after that, Schneider stopped production.

    Small, light weight, and large image circle. Great solution.

    It was not shown at Photokina from what I heard.

    Paul

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    What a shame..... the lens is light as a feather with a large image circle and VERY reasonably priced. One of my absolute favorites.

    Victor

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    I have a call into Schneider NY to see what "status" is.

    Paul

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Found this link re the Schneider 100mm: Digital Lenses - Schneider 100mm f5.6 APO Digitar N lens (Copal 0) - Photographic Retailer in London, Ship Worldwide! | Teamwork Digital

    Assuming one is found for you, still need to get it mounted.

    ken

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    I would purchase an unmounted lens if one were available. You can always get it mounted - which is done by Schneider.

    Victor

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    OK, I got the scoop. Schneider makes a 100mm APO Digitar, and that's still available, along with a 90mm. These are not the newer Aspheric designs like the latest 120mm.

    All of last year it was rumored that Schneider was working a new "Aspheric" version of the 100mm, and it would have a larger image circle in the 110 to 120mm range. That lens has not been produced.

    Schneider still makes the older APO-Digitar 90mm (90mm IC) and 100mm (100mm IC I believe) and those can be ordered from Alpa, Arca and Cambo.

    There is an big optical difference in the 120mm APO Aspheric (better) and it will focus much closer than the older 120mm APO Digitar. In fact Schneider made both a macro and normal range version of the APO Digitar.

    Back to the 90mm HRSW, it's all new glass, takes over a year to cool, so they are much more difficult to find. Supposedly by far the sharpest 90 Rodenstock has made. So it should be a great lens for you, just watch for the possible ghosting.

    Older versions of the 90 Rodenstock,

    90mm HR Pink band
    90mm HR sinor digitar (supposedly built just a bit better) Pink band
    90mm HR-W, Blue band, optically different and I believe it needs the back extension.

    90mm HRSW, totally optically new and for sure needs the back extension, Yellow band.

    Paul
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    I have both the 70 and the 90. I don't use the 70 any more, and have been on the fence about selling it. I purchased the 90 mid last year as a replacement for my 100hrs, which many of you know has a small image circle.

    Once I got the 90, the 70 was a bit too close in focal length, especially given the 90's great large image circle. I have since replaced the 70 with the sk 60, which in my opinion fits better between my 40hr-w and the new 90hr-ws.

    The 70 is a great lens. The 90 is better, and is literally stellar all the way out to the edge of the image circle. The 70 is just as good in the center, but not quite as perfect wide open at the edges.

    As others have said, it is a lot smaller and a lot lighter. But the 90 is just so versatile because of the big, high-quality image circle.

    Paul, I think you are correct above. I do not think Schneider ever made the 100 ASPH. Too bad; I was all excited about it last year.

    Dave
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    I have the Rodenstock HR-W and currently use it on film. It's a wonderfully sharp lens, but the ghosting / flare drives me absolutely bananas. So, it's not a digital specific thing.
    It was driving me so crazy, ruining so many shots that I had it sent to Rodenstock via Linhof Studio (who were BRILLIANT help in the matter) but Rodenstock said it was perfect. Ultimately, I'd buy it again because I need the image circle and like the focal length, but given an alternative, I'd prefer to stay clear.
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    OK, I got the scoop. Schneider makes a 100mm APO Digitar, and that's still available, along with a 90mm. These are not the newer Aspheric designs like the latest 120mm.

    All of last year it was rumored that Schneider was working a new "Aspheric" version of the 100mm, and it would have a larger image circle in the 110 to 120mm range. That lens has not been produced.

    Schneider still makes the older APO-Digitar 90mm (90mm IC) and 100mm (100mm IC I believe) and those can be ordered from Alpa, Arca and Cambo.

    There is an big optical difference in the 120mm APO Aspheric (better) and it will focus much closer than the older 120mm APO Digitar. In fact Schneider made both a macro and normal range version of the APO Digitar.

    Back to the 90mm HRSW, it's all new glass, takes over a year to cool, so they are much more difficult to find. Supposedly by far the sharpest 90 Rodenstock has made. So it should be a great lens for you, just watch for the possible ghosting.

    Older versions of the 90 Rodenstock,

    90mm HR Pink band
    90mm HR sinor digitar (supposedly built just a bit better) Pink band
    90mm HR-W, Blue band, optically different and I believe it needs the back extension.

    90mm HRSW, totally optically new and for sure needs the back extension, Yellow band.

    Paul
    Alpa lists the Schneider 100mm Digitar as discontinued...... I'm still in shock! Of course, now, its around 15% more than two days ago if available. I toyed with getting the 120 but was very disappointed with the close focus range.... hardly what I would call macro - not even 1:2 so still requires an extender and I can duplicate all of that with my 150mm which is sharp as a tack.

    Back to the 100..... its a killer lens and doesn't have any ghosting.

    Victor
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Don't forget, the 120 Schneider is now sold in the Aspheric and that is a totally different lens than the older 120mm, (non Macro).

    The 120mm APO-Digatar Aspheric will focus as close as 5.5 feet.

    Not too bad.

    Paul

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    The new 120 will focus to 0.88m (2.88ft) but still not 1:2 so back to extenders. I'm sure its a great lens and I still slightly toy with it (enthusiasm dampened by 15%).

    Victor

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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    took a close look at my 120:
    marked: APO-DIGITAR 5.6/120 N-48şMC and the close limit focus distance is 2.6M/8.5'

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: 90mm HRSW or 70mm HR

    Just got home; size comparison...
    Both include the necessary adapters for Alpa (17mm for the 70sb, 34mm for the 90sb)

    How glorious a greeting the sun gives the mountains! - John Muir

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