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Thread: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

  1. #1
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    CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Hi all,

    First off, I'm not a professional photographer. I take pictures for pleasure, and a substantial part of that is spending the time setting up and framing shots. That's why life never was better than when I had my CFV 16MP back, I was very happy with it, apart from the crappy low light performance. Then it died. That's two years ago now, and I've started shooting film again with my Hasselblad, developing my own C41/E6/B&W. Other than the latter type, this is messy, and expensive, and messy. And the results are not immediate.

    So I bought what my budget allowed, and I got a Canon 5D MkIII with a few nice lenses. But that's just not working for me. I can't shoot with a tiny viewfinder.

    Thus my decision to sell all of that gear, and bite the bullet, spend the money on a new digital back for my wonderful collection of V system Hasselblad lenses and bodies.

    I've thus far essentially whittled it down to the CFV 50c (which is my preferred choice given my past history with their backs, and the negative experiences I've had with a PhaseOne that the salespeople so desperately were trying to push on me), then there's the Credo 50 which is almost twice the price, and the Credo 40, which 2/3rds the price, but also is just 40MP.

    My quest for hands on reviews thus far has been met with mostly no results, in other forums (e.g. LL) there appears to be mostly a sales spiel being played by PhaseOne proponents, but nobody ever really seems to have first hand experience. To quote from a personal message I got on LL: the 50c makes wonderful pictures (as do all Sony chips - at least that was the inference), but the workflow is slow and outdated. That comes from someone who by their own admission has never held one or tried one.

    Can anyone here with first hand experience of a comparative nature comment on my predicament?

    Cheers

    - Balt

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    By the comment "the workflow slow and outdated" must mean Phocus, which indeed is old school compated to Capture One or Lightroom. There's nothing wrong with the image quality but you don't have local edits, the tonemapping features are limited etc. The other thing that's "slow and outdated" is that the V system is manual focus. Oh, you don't have wifi of the CFV-50c back, and the back's user interface isn't as modern as Phase One's - but you do have live view now.

    A common workflow among Hassy users is to use Lightroom as DAM, Phocus as raw converter and Photoshop as post-processing tool. I guess many Phase One users do it all in Capture One, although many still use Photoshop now and then. I know of some Phase One users that really dislike to postprocess in Capture One, and just use if for brief raw conversion and get as soon as possible over to Photoshop, ie the same as many Hassy users do.

    Comments from first hand experience won't help you that much, as it's so very much a matter of taste and the nature of your work. If you work tethered in a studio, or if you're out in the field shooting for example. I think differences will be more clear in a tethered workflow. The important thing to know is that you don't sacrifice image quality, but some convenience features. If you've already used to a Hassy workflow from the CFV-16 you know what you will get.

    Cost-wise the CFV-50c value is just unbeatable in the MF world (excluding the Pentax 645z). The reason it's cheap is that it doesn't compete with the autofocus H system which "all pros" use these days, image-quality-wise it's exactly the same as H5D-50c, except for the lenses.

    As you're going to shoot V and is not considering swithing to 645DF+ and would like to have better ISO performance I think it's a no-brainer, CFV-50c it is. V-mount Phase One and Credo backs won't have that great second hand value either, while all CFV models have proven to hold the value well, as there is still a large enthusiast interest in the V system, and it just looks better with a back in matching style. Shooting Credo and IQ on the V system will give you Capture One, but the "slow and outdated" workflow is in most parts still there with the manual focus camera. I find it very very very hard in this context to motivate the extra cost of a Credo 50 or IQ150/250.

    A Credo 40 645DF+ kit can be had for $13k these days though, which is $2k less than a CFV-50c back. That's the alternative to evaluate against I think. Sell yor V gear and go all in on 645DF+ could be an option. That's a much more difficult discussion as the systems are so very different.
    Last edited by torger; 23rd January 2015 at 02:03.
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    As I mentioned over on LuLa, such comparisons are few.

    This is the most detailed review of the credo 50 I have seen.

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/digital-...y-mancuso.html

    Darr's post on this forum has some actual images taken with the 50c.

    Paul
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    i went from the IQ160 to the cfv50-c; cambo and H2-blad to 205FCC. in the past, had the cfv16 and cfv-39.

    i'm happy winding my camera, looking into that waist level ground glass and using phocus. and the interface of the cfv50-2 to the camera is perfect

    expect to use it on the cambo Actus where live view is essential

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Unless you're intimately familiar with particular systems---investing in any MFDB system without at least seeing it in person to compare, could end up being a very costly proposition. Oh wait, that's perfect for members of Dante's Inferno...

    There is so much of a personal/subjective decision that really, to make the best decision before jumping in, is to be able to use the MFDB systems you are actually considering---both equipment, software, and workflow. And this can be difficult depending on your geographic location because of the rarified air of photographing with medium format digital.

    If you can find a medium format workshop (like Jack and Guy here at GetDPI) or a not a workshop-workshop (me and Don ) that is an ideal setting to try many different MFDB platforms. Not many options outside of scant dealers and actual users you can try to meet up with....

    If you've been out of the fray for a while---- I'd keep all options on the table for now.

    ken

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    I have a P45 and the CFV-50c; I will be letting go of the P45 in the near future. FWIW, I would not put a whole lot of weight into a review that comes from a dealer that is not selling the 50c or a forum messenger that is not using it. Practical experience IMO is an important factor when giving advice on gear.

    I use the 50c on ALPA cameras and a newly acquired 501CM. I do have extensive experience using the V system (20+ years), but gave it up a few years ago due to film processing and scanning, but went back to it recently because of the 50c.

    I was looking at acquiring the IQ250 for the Live View (LV) and CMOS qualities when Hasselblad came out with the 50c, so I am overjoyed to say the least. The 50c is everything I wanted, especially the LV, as I use my ALPA cameras a lot, and now I do not need the ground glass for focusing -- it has not only lightened my gear bag, but also makes my shooting experience a lot quicker, and simpler with more ISO options.

    I am currently using the 501CM with a 150mm lens for portraiture, and do not plan on using the Hasselblad outside of portraiture, that is what my ALPA cameras are for. I am very happy with the 50c matched with my 501CM. The only thing I would change if I could would be to make the back rotatable for the vertical format, but that is not enough for me to exchange the 50c for another back. The option of shooting square is there, albeit with the loss of pixels.

    I am a newcomer to Phocus and use it for LCC processing, a tiny bit of tweaking and then as all my files go, into Lightroom (LR) and if further tweaking is needed, then Photoshop (PS). As far as Phocus being a problem, from my experience it is not, and it does not cause any computer difficulties such as Sigma's SPP program has while I process Foveon files.

    I am a Capture One (C1) user since version 5, but do not use it much even though I upgraded to version 8. C1 does excellent RAW processing, but the interface always turned me off; other photographers love it.

    My digital workflow for many years has been LR and PS, and I think it is safe to say, my workflow is LR and PS no matter what camera/digital back the files come from. C1 could not convince me to make the switch even though I have used it with the P45 since 2010. My C1 workflow is similar to how I currently use Phocus.

    Hope this helps.

    Kind regards,
    Darr

    PS: B&H Photo sells the CFV-50c if you did not already know that. I bought mine from a Japanese dealer off of eBay.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Off the record:
    I was wondering that since you use the 50c on your V exclusively for portraits, would you pay someone with the skills and means to rotate the sensor to vertical position?
    500CM WLF viewing, 50mp, the luxury of LV, no cords and integrated looks.
    That sounds like photo nirvana to me.
    Best
    Eduardo


    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    I have a P45 and the CFV-50c; I will be letting go of the P45 in the near future. FWIW, I would not put a whole lot of weight into a review that comes from a dealer that is not selling the 50c or a forum messenger that is not using it. Practical experience IMO is an important factor when giving advice on gear.

    I use the 50c on ALPA cameras and a newly acquired 501CM. I do have extensive experience using the V system (20+ years), but gave it up a few years ago due to film processing and scanning, but went back to it recently because of the 50c.

    I was looking at acquiring the IQ250 for the Live View (LV) and CMOS qualities when Hasselblad came out with the 50c, so I am overjoyed to say the least. The 50c is everything I wanted, especially the LV, as I use my ALPA cameras a lot, and now I do not need the ground glass for focusing -- it has not only lightened my gear bag, but also makes my shooting experience a lot quicker, and simpler with more ISO options.

    I am currently using the 501CM with a 150mm lens for portraiture, and do not plan on using the Hasselblad outside of portraiture, that is what my ALPA cameras are for. I am very happy with the 50c matched with my 501CM. The only thing I would change if I could would be to make the back rotatable for the vertical format, but that is not enough for me to exchange the 50c for another back. The option of shooting square is there, albeit with the loss of pixels.

    I am a newcomer to Phocus and use it for LCC processing, a tiny bit of tweaking and then as all my files go, into Lightroom (LR) and if further tweaking is needed, then Photoshop (PS). As far as Phocus being a problem, from my experience it is not, and it does not cause any computer difficulties such as Sigma's SPP program has while I process Foveon files.

    I am a Capture One (C1) user since version 5, but do not use it much even though I upgraded to version 8. C1 does excellent RAW processing, but the interface always turned me off; other photographers love it.

    My digital workflow for many years has been LR and PS, and I think it is safe to say, my workflow is LR and PS no matter what camera/digital back the files come from. C1 could not convince me to make the switch even though I have used it with the P45 since 2010. My C1 workflow is similar to how I currently use Phocus.

    Hope this helps.

    Kind regards,
    Darr

    PS: B&H Photo sells the CFV-50c if you did not already know that. I bought mine from a Japanese dealer off of eBay.

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    Off the record:
    I was wondering that since you use the 50c on your V exclusively for portraits, would you pay someone with the skills and means to rotate the sensor to vertical position?
    500CM WLF viewing, 50mp, the luxury of LV, no cords and integrated looks.
    That sounds like photo nirvana to me.
    Best
    Eduardo
    No. I can use it the way it is just fine.
    It is "photo nirvana".
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Darr, are you using a grip on the 501cm? I hear the 50c can accommodate the use of the standard 90 degree finder. That with the grip would mean a very easy portrait shooting setup. At least no different to the H or DF.

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Hi Darr,

    Thanks for all info! How usable is LV on the "Blad"?

    Personally, there are two reasons I am not jumping on the CFV 50c. The first one is simply the money, I feel I have spent more than enough on MFD and cannot really afford another back.

    The other reason is that I would have a problem with the crop factor on the "Blad".

    On the other hand, I feel that I cannot focus the camera accurately, so I work mostly at f/11, so I cannot make use of the short focus made possible with the decent quality Hasselblad lenses. Live view would certainly help with that.

    Best regards
    Erik
    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    No. I can use it the way it is just fine.
    It is "photo nirvana".

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    If you are shooting with a crop factor sensor and want to use the optical ground glass, the magnifying hood finder DPS 4x4 is very helpful for focusing shallow depth of field lens setting. This finder makes the crop sensor 44x33 into a full frame optical view. This finder works best without using eye glasses on the CFV-50c; with eye glasses, you have to look from side to side to see all the frame. This limitation occurrs due to the design of the finder.

    On a side but related note, the live view will also work in many situation. However, for any camera that is not integrated for live view initially, live view will not work as seamlessly in handhold action situation. Thus the magnifying hood become an important tool to facilitate the CFV-50c in practice.

    Live view is extremely useful in this situation below where optical finder hits its limit.

    X-Act2 prior to Actus
    Last edited by PSon; 23rd January 2015 at 14:25. Reason: Add photo otherwise this thread is useless as they say.

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Darr, are you using a grip on the 501cm? I hear the 50c can accommodate the use of the standard 90 degree finder. That with the grip would mean a very easy portrait shooting setup. At least no different to the H or DF.
    Thanks Tim for the info. I do not have a grip like I had in the past, but I do have a 90 degree viewfinder on order.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    There is no camera grip for the 501CM. The camera grip is available for the 503CXi, 503CW, 202FA, 203FE, 205TCC and 205FCC.

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi Darr,

    Thanks for all info! How usable is LV on the "Blad"?
    Howdy Erik,
    LV is not accessible on 501CM, but there is an option for focus checking.
    EDIT: Live View is Accessible on the 501CM: set lens to "B", hold shutter release button in, and press LV button.


    ... I feel that I cannot focus the camera accurately, so I work mostly at f/11, so I cannot make use of the short focus made possible with the decent quality Hasselblad lenses. Live view would certainly help with that.

    Best regards
    Erik
    (1) I use the magnifier below with my prism finder for fine focusing and it works well. If you are not using one, it may help with focusing. I picked one up from Igor Camera, but currently there are two offered on eBay.



    (2) The 50c has a 'P' button you can set for Focus Check (FC). Once you take the picture, you would push the 'P' button and then you move the crosshair to where you want to check focus on the image for up to a 100% view.

    I think if you do not have the magnifier, you could try that, but FC would work very well too.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    Last edited by darr; 24th January 2015 at 07:07.
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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by PSon View Post
    If you are shooting with a crop factor sensor and want to use the optical ground glass, the magnifying hood finder DPS 4x4 is very helpful for focusing shallow depth of field lens setting. This finder makes the crop sensor 44x33 into a full frame optical view. This finder works best without using eye glasses on the CFV-50c; with eye glasses, you have to look from side to side to see all the frame. This limitation occurrs due to the design of the finder.
    Thank you Son. Unfortunately, I started wearing bifocals and need to wear them when I shoot. I sometimes wear contact lenses, but I cannot wear them when I photograph as the diopters between the contact lenses and the viewfinder get distorted and I cannot focus. I just searched eBay for the DPS 4x4 and its expensive at $600, when compared to a PME90 in EX+ condition for $468.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
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    Senior Member PSon's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Hi Darr,
    I also have the magnifier you posted up top. This magnifier works with older 45 and 90 degree finders. It may not work on the latest 45 and 90 degree prisms. I will double check since I have all of the new and old Hasselblad accessories to make sure.

    If you don't mind looking a little to the left and right to see the complete frame, this is the brightest and highest magnifier I have ever use and I have many systems. It is quite expensive when I bought it as well. I just sent one to John Milich (jm) who actually was the first one at least in the GetDPI forum to acquire the CFV-50c. He can tell you his own experience. I got another one that I can send it to you to try if you like. Just PM if you want to try it.

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by PSon View Post
    Hi Darr,
    I also have the magnifier you posted up top. This magnifier works with older 45 and 90 degree finders. It may not work on the latest 45 and 90 degree prisms. I will double check since I have all of the new and old Hasselblad accessories to make sure.

    If you don't mind looking a little to the left and right to see the complete frame, this is the brightest and highest magnifier I have ever use and I have many systems. It is quite expensive when I bought it as well. I just sent one to John Milich (jm) who actually was the first one at least in the GetDPI forum to acquire the CFV-50c. He can tell you his own experience. I got another one that I can send it to you to try if you like. Just PM if you want to try it.
    Son, I already own the magnifier I posted a picture of and it works well for my eyes with a PM45 viewfinder. I would not be interested in acquiring a DPS 4x4.

    John and I bought the 50c I think on the same day, as he sent me a PM and we discussed our purchases. He is currently using it on a 200 series and has posted excellent photos made with it. I do not know if he is using it with a tech cam as he sold some tech camera gear lately.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Hi torgen and darr,

    thank you so much for your in-depth responses. Indeed my equipment choice could be a matter of complete overhaul. However, I've done just that with the Canon, and even though I thought I could work with it, I couldn't. With the Hassy V, it feels like she's just an extension to my eyes and imagination. I never had that with any other camera system.

    Darr is bringing to the point I think. I'll just need to try and get my hands on one to see how it works for me.

    Cheers

    - Balt
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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by bindermuehle View Post
    Hi torgen and darr,

    thank you so much for your in-depth responses. Indeed my equipment choice could be a matter of complete overhaul. However, I've done just that with the Canon, and even though I thought I could work with it, I couldn't. With the Hassy V, it feels like she's just an extension to my eyes and imagination. I never had that with any other camera system.

    Darr is bringing to the point I think. I'll just need to try and get my hands on one to see how it works for me.

    Cheers

    - Balt

    Balt,
    You are welcome. This forum IMO is the friendliest on the web and a valuable resource for medium format shooters.

    If the V feels like she's an extension to your eyes and imagination, I do understand that, and recommend you get the 50c. I think you will enjoy it immensely.
    I do not know where you can try before you buy, and if you find a resource for that, please post it in the thread for others to read.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    The files that Darr showed me are excellent and I feel up there with anything else on the market. Only if you're thinking of using a technical camera and employing relatively large movements would I recommend looking at something else, really.
    If you're shooting with a V series camera, then it's a no brainer IMHO. Like others, I wish it could rotate, but if you buy a body that can accommodate the motorised grip, then no worries.

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    LV is not accessible on 501CM, but there is an option for focus checking.
    Huh? That sound really strange... you mean you can have live view when mounted to a tech camera like the Alpa, but no live view when mounted on a V body?

    If so that sounds like a huge mistake from Hasselblad, it could be a show stopper for some... but it could be that they don't want the CFV-50c to have too many features of the much more expensive H5D-50c, and having tech cam as some sort of exception. Or it's just some firmware bug they haven't fixed yet...
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    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    Howdy Erik,
    LV is not accessible on 501CM, but there is an option for focus checking .
    Darr

    According to the CFV-50c data sheet , LV view is available on rear display .
    Allows for accurate focusing .
    That seems to be the focus checking function you mention .
    Now as the H5D-50c has WiFi , I assume we will see WiFi in the CFV-50c as well soon . I can't see why this would not be possible , as this will be independent of the camera .

    Regards Jürgen
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by bindermuehle View Post
    Hi all,

    First off, I'm not a professional photographer. I take pictures for pleasure, and a substantial part of that is spending the time setting up and framing shots. That's why life never was better than when I had my CFV 16MP back, I was very happy with it, apart from the crappy low light performance. Then it died. That's two years ago now, and I've started shooting film again with my Hasselblad, developing my own C41/E6/B&W. Other than the latter type, this is messy, and expensive, and messy. And the results are not immediate.

    So I bought what my budget allowed, and I got a Canon 5D MkIII with a few nice lenses. But that's just not working for me. I can't shoot with a tiny viewfinder.

    Thus my decision to sell all of that gear, and bite the bullet, spend the money on a new digital back for my wonderful collection of V system Hasselblad lenses and bodies.

    I've thus far essentially whittled it down to the CFV 50c (which is my preferred choice given my past history with their backs, and the negative experiences I've had with a PhaseOne that the salespeople so desperately were trying to push on me), then there's the Credo 50 which is almost twice the price, and the Credo 40, which 2/3rds the price, but also is just 40MP.

    My quest for hands on reviews thus far has been met with mostly no results, in other forums (e.g. LL) there appears to be mostly a sales spiel being played by PhaseOne proponents, but nobody ever really seems to have first hand experience. To quote from a personal message I got on LL: the 50c makes wonderful pictures (as do all Sony chips - at least that was the inference), but the workflow is slow and outdated. That comes from someone who by their own admission has never held one or tried one.

    Can anyone here with first hand experience of a comparative nature comment on my predicament?

    Cheers

    - Balt
    Happy to provide first hand Credo experience (naturally...) and if needed to help getting one in your hands for testing and evaluation...

    BR

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    live view works for my 205fcc; you have to set the shutter(s) to bulb and hold them open then turn on live view on the back

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    According to the HASSELBLAD data sheet , live view should work on all cameras shown . Can't see any restrictions .

    http://www.hasselblad.com/media/4795...heet_en_v5.pdf
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    live view works for my 205fcc; you have to set the shutter(s) to bulb and hold them open then turn on live view on the back
    Live View Works on 501CM
    Sorry about that and thank you John!

    Live View (LV) works when you set the lens to 'B', hold the shutter release button in, and press LV button. LV was implemented after the 50c hit the market so that is probably why the steps above are not in the instructions manual.

    Focus Check has worked well enough for me for the small amount of shooting I have done thus far with the 501CM. I purchased this back to use 90% of the time with my ALPA cameras, so not a whole lot of experience yet with the 501CM + 50c.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Huh? That sound really strange... you mean you can have live view when mounted to a tech camera like the Alpa, but no live view when mounted on a V body?

    If so that sounds like a huge mistake from Hasselblad, it could be a show stopper for some... but it could be that they don't want the CFV-50c to have too many features of the much more expensive H5D-50c, and having tech cam as some sort of exception. Or it's just some firmware bug they haven't fixed yet...
    EDIT: Live View is Accessible on the 501CM: set lens to "B", hold shutter release button in, and press LV button.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Darr

    According to the CFV-50c data sheet , LV view is available on rear display .
    Allows for accurate focusing .
    That seems to be the focus checking function you mention .
    Now as the H5D-50c has WiFi , I assume we will see WiFi in the CFV-50c as well soon . I can't see why this would not be possible , as this will be independent of the camera .

    Regards Jürgen
    EDIT: Live View is Accessible on the 501CM: set lens to "B", hold shutter release button in, and press LV button.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Darr

    My desire for a CFV-50c is getting stronger and stronger but my gear wallet is currently empty . Waiting for WiFi to be implemented . Haha , good excuse .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Darr, I hope this means you're excited about using Live View on your 501CM...

    Congratulations on your new MFDB!

    ken

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Darr

    My desire for a CFV-50c is getting stronger and stronger but my gear wallet is currently empty . Waiting for WiFi to be implemented . Haha , good excuse .
    Jürgen,
    I was only able to spring for it because I started saving for a new back about two years ago. Coming from 4x5", we already have the MFD tech cam shooting technique via ground glass down pat, but when I saw the possibilities with the IQ250, I knew I was going to be buying a new back soon. I too have no need for WIFI, so that would be an excellent excuse for me as well.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    Last edited by darr; 24th January 2015 at 08:22.
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Darr, I hope this means you're excited about using Live View on your 501CM...

    Congratulations on your new MFDB!

    ken
    Ken,

    I always appreciate your sense of humor!!
    I will try to remember I have LV with the 501, but no guarantee I'll use it.

    This back is wonderful with the tech cams!!

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    since the 500/200 cameras are SLR's, live view is not so important.

    it is useful with a tech cam and the 903SWC however, and eseential with something like the Cambo Actus, where there are no focusing helicoids, distance scales, etc. on the lenses
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    I think , I will leave the forum (for today) before I will sell my car to pick up the money for the CFV-50c .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    nasty winter day, wet snow, grey. from around the navy yard; 2 shot pano with 40mm in vertical
    Last edited by jlm; 24th January 2015 at 09:51.
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    same lens, 1 shot
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    end of the limestone block drydock, built in the mid 1800's
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    110 lens
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    the kind of guy who shoots these cameras, c.1974
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    I still remember the Hasselblad brochure with the drawings of a male photographer holding the camera in various positions: Arms up and camera upside down, squatting with the camera almost a floor level, etc. Of course always making full use of the waist-level finder.

    That brochure sold me out back in the 80's.
    Contrary to many, I believe the V cameras are immensely handicapped with an only-horizontal sensor.

    Can't help it. If I have to use a "vintage" WLF boxy camera in a dslr fashion, I'd rather get a totally modern, weather-proof 645Z. For the price of one back I can buy the Pentax with a couple of good lenses.

    But as I said before in other posts, I still keep my fingers crossed waiting for Hasselblad to finally come to their senses.
    So far, it's been a long and repeating disheartening wait.
    If there's life, there's hope, even for Hasselblad.

    Eduardo



    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    the kind of guy who shoots these cameras, c.1974

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    Contrary to many, I believe the V cameras are immensely handicapped with an only-horizontal sensor.

    Can't help it. If I have to use a "vintage" WLF boxy camera in a dslr fashion, I'd rather get a totally modern, weather-proof 645Z. For the price of one back I can buy the Pentax with a couple of good lenses.
    Hi Eduardo,

    It goes back to the tools a photographer needs. The Pentax is a nice camera from what others have said about it, and some of the photos posted in the MF Image section produced by Pentax MFD photographers are absolutely beautiful IMO, but it is a closed system. A lot of the hoopla about the 50c is really about the versatility of the back with tech cameras.

    It would be nice if the back was rotatable, but using a 90 degree prism finder or choosing to shoot square (with pixel loss) with a V series are tradeoffs some of us can live with because of the tech camera option.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com
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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Hi,

    It is nice to have a MFDB I can mount vertically, but mounting/dismounting an expensive back in field is not really fun. A 90 degree finder combined with an L-bracket may be a reasonable option.

    WLF and magnifier hood doesn't work for me. Makes the tripod top heavy and shooting downwards is a pain. It makes you stand bending over the camera.

    Pentax got this right. They have mounting points below the camera but also on the left side. Obviously, they also have a 90 degree (or 180 degree) view finder.

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    Hi Eduardo,

    It goes back to the tools a photographer needs. The Pentax is a nice camera from what others have said about it, and some of the photos posted in the MF Image section produced by Pentax MFD photographers are absolutely beautiful IMO, but it is a closed system. A lot of the hoopla about the 50c is really about the versatility of the back with tech cameras.

    It would be nice if the back was rotatable, but using a 90 degree prism finder or choosing to shoot square (with pixel loss) with a V series are tradeoffs some of us can live with because of the tech camera option.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    Last edited by ErikKaffehr; 24th January 2015 at 13:09.

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    How hard would it be for Hasselblad to reincarnate the V system with a rotating sensor and updated lenses? Even just a rotating sensor, a la the old rotating Leaf backs would be great news for many. Surely they'd make a lot more money doing that?
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    It is nice to have a MFDB I can mount vertically, but mounting/dismounting an expensive back in field is not really fun. A 90 degree finder combined with an L-bracket may be a reasonable option.

    WLF and magnifier hood doesn't work for me. Makes the tripod top heavy and shooting downwards is a pain. It makes you stand bending over the camera.

    Pentax got this right. They have mounting points below the camera but also on the left side. Obviously, they also have a 90 degree (or 180 degree) view finder.

    Best regards
    Erik
    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    How hard would it be for Hasselblad to reincarnate the V system with a rotating sensor and updated lenses? Even just a rotating sensor, a la the old rotating Leaf backs would be great news for many. Surely they'd make a lot more money doing that?

    Have a look here . You should go through the whole thread and see all images .
    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-f...l-plate-2.html

    The SMARTFLEX is just a great L-PLATE .
    Small , light , stable and very practical . No need for an expensive rotating back . I have a SMARTFLEX myself and some other forum members too .
    I have finished my Q-Plate rework for my SWC905 and can now use the SWC with the SMARTFLEX . Images of that combo will follow .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Thanks for the clarification on live view on the V system.

    Concerning the Pentax 645z and pricing, each time I've heard something from someone inside Hasselblad (or Leaf or Phase One) the story is that they've heard that the 645z don't sell that much, and that it's so cheap that they're either making very little money per unit or even losing money per unit. If it's true, if it's false but they believe it's true or if it's just marketing strategy towards customers I don't know.

    As far as I can see the difference to a flagship 135 DSLR is the sensor, which should be more expensive, and the lower volumes. I think the sensor difference is widely exaggerated, sure they are expensive but it's like $1-2k extra, and if we just had to pay for the extra sensor cost MF cameras would be very affordable. Lower volumes must be the main reason for the high cost. To make a high volume product you need to commit at an early stage to make large volumes and that costs a lot of money, which I don't think Hassy have. You also need to take a large risk and assume that you can sell that large volume you intend to manufacture. I would guess that the current manufacturing facilities don't have the capacity to make large volumes so they would probably need to start manufacture in Thailand or similar countries too to be able to make volumes and keep down the cost, and starting up a new factory there is not a small thing, especially for a company that hasn't done it before.

    The CFV-50c is some sort of special case, but I think one should see it as a spinoff product on the H5D-50c (ie the H5 sales pays the development costs), and Hassy wants to keep some maintenance of the V system for the sake of the brand.

    Considering the state of the current products I think we can safely say that what Hasselblad wants to do in the MF space is to make money on what they already got with the least amount of new development. While there's nothing wrong with the backs and their software in terms of image quality, it's clear that not much development effort has been put into it to keep up with the latest popular features, they've had to prioritize heavily and arguably they have made better choice for photographers than Phase One which indeed have more modern backs and software, but instead a less capable body.

    I would not expect any revolutionary product coming in the MF segment, other than what can be provided through third-party sensors, the Sony CMOS backs are pretty revolutionary in some senses. Considering the luxury products I think/hope it will continue as before as side projects to the main MF line, although they will probably try harder to sell some H and V units to enthusiasts, the odd product placement shown in another recent thread could be credited to that.

    Photo enthusiasts and professionals don't necessarily need all the latest features, it's more important what result you can get. As a tech cam shooter always shooting from a tripod I certainly don't need much features from the back, and I can live with a CCD. The resulting image quality is what counts. However, to make that huge selling hit I think CMOS feature set is necessary, to be popular among the masses it needs to work close to a DSLR, as that is what people are used to today, today potential MF photographers rarely come from film like they did 10 years ago. The 645z is in the best position for this, but lags on studio pro features still. As a tech cam shooter I think it's unfortunate that they discontinued the CFV-50 rather than running in parallel (like H5D-50 and H5D-50c), but I guess they thought that the CCD version won't sell to enthusiasts due to lack of high ISO and live view, and maybe they're right.
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    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Hi,

    It is nice to have a MFDB I can mount vertically, but mounting/dismounting an expensive back in field is not really fun. A 90 degree finder combined with an L-bracket may be a reasonable option.
    . . . . . . .
    Erik
    Erik

    Here the SMARTFLEX L-BRACKET .

    Attachment 85524
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Hi,

    My reflection is that the CFV 50c is an excellent choise if:

    - You don't mind the 1.3X crop factor
    - Don't need rotation on the back
    - Can afford the price

    It seems that the CFV 50c has decent quality live view. I want live view for focusing, so that is an important factor for me.

    For me, the 1.1X crop factor of the P45+ I have now is OK, the 40/4 Distagon I have is quite OK. But I guess that I would not be happy with the Distagon 40 on 1.3X crop.

    Regarding the cost, I would say that the P45+ strains my economy. I would really suggest considering needs and investments before jumping on the MFDB train.

    CF lenses are quite OK and they are dirt cheap. Newer lenses may be better and focusing those old lenses without live view is not easy.

    With Hasselblad H and Phase One bodies there is AF, don't know how accurate.

    Another way to see is that you can buy a modern DSLR and a couple of outstanding lenses. Unfortunately, that choice is Nikon D800/D800E/D810 and the Sony A7r. The Sony Alpha 7r can take almost any lens but has some issues with shutter related vibration.

    You can probably buy a Ninon D810 with both Otus lenses and a fine Zeiss ultra wide for the costs of the CFV 50c back, that may be a consideration, too.

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by bindermuehle View Post
    Hi all,

    First off, I'm not a professional photographer. I take pictures for pleasure, and a substantial part of that is spending the time setting up and framing shots. That's why life never was better than when I had my CFV 16MP back, I was very happy with it, apart from the crappy low light performance. Then it died. That's two years ago now, and I've started shooting film again with my Hasselblad, developing my own C41/E6/B&W. Other than the latter type, this is messy, and expensive, and messy. And the results are not immediate.

    So I bought what my budget allowed, and I got a Canon 5D MkIII with a few nice lenses. But that's just not working for me. I can't shoot with a tiny viewfinder.

    Thus my decision to sell all of that gear, and bite the bullet, spend the money on a new digital back for my wonderful collection of V system Hasselblad lenses and bodies.

    I've thus far essentially whittled it down to the CFV 50c (which is my preferred choice given my past history with their backs, and the negative experiences I've had with a PhaseOne that the salespeople so desperately were trying to push on me), then there's the Credo 50 which is almost twice the price, and the Credo 40, which 2/3rds the price, but also is just 40MP.

    My quest for hands on reviews thus far has been met with mostly no results, in other forums (e.g. LL) there appears to be mostly a sales spiel being played by PhaseOne proponents, but nobody ever really seems to have first hand experience. To quote from a personal message I got on LL: the 50c makes wonderful pictures (as do all Sony chips - at least that was the inference), but the workflow is slow and outdated. That comes from someone who by their own admission has never held one or tried one.

    Can anyone here with first hand experience of a comparative nature comment on my predicament?

    Cheers

    - Balt

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Thanks,

    Right now, I just mount the back 90 degrees rotated. An L-plate would be nice, but than I would also need a 90 degree view finder, that I don't have.

    Clearly, these are practical considerations, and all good ideas are helpful!

    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Erik

    Here the SMARTFLEX L-BRACKET .

    Attachment 85524

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    Not only a suggestion because I am cogitating on this myself but if what you're after is the quality of the lenses you already have, wedded to the 50mp Sony CMOS sensor, what would the downsides be to adapting them to the 645Z Pentax? That is, assuming you can live with the optical viewfinder and not miss the higher flash sync, (theoretically) better shutter vibrations of the leaf shutters and 40mm wide angle limit (unless you can de-distort the 30mm fisheye). **By all accounts** the best of the V's are = or better than the native P's. Any more upsides?
    Last edited by arionelli; 9th February 2015 at 13:40.

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    Re: CFV 50c vs Credo 50/40?

    To answer my own query, cost, I guess, a great vertical solution, live view/tilt screen, better handhold ability with fast shutter speeds...

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