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Thread: Just pulled the trigger..

  1. #1
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    Just pulled the trigger..

    Just upgrade my beloved P45+ to an IQ150 H mount back.. Placed the order Wednesday and am not waiting on the back to come from Denmark

    I wanted to thank everyone on the forum who helped me reach this decision as I spent a lot of time going back and forth between the 150, 250, and 260 before I made the decision..

    Can't wait to get the back and go shoot with it.
    Rick Rose
    www.RickrPhoto.com
    HasselPhase
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Rich,
    Why did you say you are "not waiting"?

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    I bet it was an autocorrect of "now waiting".

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Congrats.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Member Mitch's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Rick--

    Congrats on coming to that decision. Looking forward to seeing your setup.

    Mitch

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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    I bet it was an autocorrect of "now waiting".
    This is correct! I'm now waiting for it.. Hopefully it gets here soon!
    Rick Rose
    www.RickrPhoto.com
    HasselPhase

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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Congratulations! You have chosen the best sensor

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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Yes - congratulations, the one I will go for as well, upgrading from an IQ140.

    Cheers, -Peter
    Alpa TC STC | IQ140 | 24XL 35XL 120N-ASPH
    www.peterlomdahl.com

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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Rick, we're right up the coast from you. We bought our IQ250 last year and its a remarkable piece of gear. We put it right to work on a wide variety of tasks and it has performed very well. We are still learning things about it, but overall, great back and system. Good choice!

    PS: Your work is stunning!

  10. #10
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Got the back in yesterday.. so far loving it. I can't believe I how much of an improvement everything is over my dated P45+... can't wait to shoot with it.
    Rick Rose
    www.RickrPhoto.com
    HasselPhase
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerimar View Post
    Got the back in yesterday.. so far loving it. I can't believe I how much of an improvement everything is over my dated P45+... can't wait to shoot with it.
    What's remarkable about the P45/P45+ is how well it has held up in image quality given that that series was first sold in 2005. Ten years, in digital terms, an eternity. Yet it still holds up very well (nah, exceeds) when compared to the 5DIII that I use as a second camera on wedding shoot.

    That said, it's been ten years, and both in terms of sensor and interface, the IQ150/IQ250/Credo50 is a big step forward.

    The interface on the IQ/IQ2/Credo series, I still feel, is years ahead of the competition. Responsive, fast, and intuitive touch screen interface. Direct-to-100% zoom by tapping exactly where in the frame you want to review. Fast processing such that shooting several images in a row (tethered or untethered) results in no meaningful delay in reviewing the most recent image. Built in custom-threshold Focus Masking with instant change from one image to another for minute comparison of changes like adding tilt (once both have been cached). Custom-set exposure warning which can (optionally) be set to only show in the side-thumbnail, thereby not obfuscating the view of the main image. 2 axis level including numerical readout for maximum accuracy, and recorded into metadata for automatic correction of both horizon and perspective in Capture One. Rapidly scrollable thumbnails. Ratings and color tags that transfer to C1 Editing. Grids and guides with a bunch of options including custom cross hair. Native compatibility to Capture One with both USB3 and FW for fast, stable, feature-rich tethering.

    And of course for this back, great live view.

    We, as dealers, get very used to these features since we've had them for 4 years. But anytime we get someone in that has never seen them before it's a treat to see them explore for the first time.

    When I shoot with the 5DIII it's not uncommon when I'm busy that I'll forget and try to double tap the screen to check focus. Usually I catch myself before the second tap.

    But anyway.....

    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    You made the right choice. If you chose the IQ260 you would have been disappointed with the long exposure. It can do no where near as good as the P45+ does. The IQ150 can be an upgrade for the P45+.
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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Right, that IQ 260 is just crap. All the experts say so, over and over.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Just a little Sunday sarcasm, huh?

    Hey, did I tell you what the Arca Rm3di can do....


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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Right, that IQ 260 is just crap. All the experts say so, over and over.
    I use mine mounted on the Alpa as a door stop. The small size and density make it ideal for keeping my office door open. The schneider lenses also are handy too as paperweights.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    plus it's like a full piggy bank you can't break into
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I use mine mounted on the Alpa as a door stop. The small size and density make it ideal for keeping my office door open. The schneider lenses also are handy too as paperweights.
    Indeed. I used to take actual long exposures with the IQ260. We even did IQ260 long exposure testing to show how good they were.

    Personally I thought the results, at 8 minutes, under non-ideal lighting, with difficult dark subject matter with lots of detail, were pretty darn good.

    But now that I've heard it's crap for long exposures, we'd better just keep those backs in our safe.

    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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  18. #18
    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    plus it's like a full piggy bank you can't break into
    A piggy bank with a black hole in its center steadily devouring coins. Sounds right.

    Last edited by MGrayson; 1st February 2015 at 19:54.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerimar View Post
    Got the back in yesterday.. so far loving it. I can't believe I how much of an improvement everything is over my dated P45+... can't wait to shoot with it.

    Rick, we're glad you're happy with it, and appreciate your patience for the delivery. The 150 is a nice upgrade from the P45+.


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar Authorized Reseller

  20. #20
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    The schneider lenses also are handy too as paperweights.
    They're crap as paperweights...you should have gone the Rodenstock route as they're heavier so can hold a lot more paper...

    Anyways, what kind of paper are we talking about????
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    It's the kind of paper that you use when acquiring 500+ hp camera bags...

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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    I've seen various tests of IQ260 long exposures, and in some circumstances the old P45+ can actually outperform it in terms of noise buildup over time, but in all circumstances an IQ150 will be less noisy. The IQ260 results does rely quite heavily on noise reduction in software. So yes, the king of long exposure is probably one of the Sony based backs/cameras. Long exposure performance is relatively little tested out there so it's hard to find information of how a system performs without getting one and testing for yourself.

    What matters in the end is what results you can get on your final print though, and I'm sure I could live even with an IQ260...

  23. #23
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Then again there's still plenty of folks that don't require extra long exposure times but do demand full frame sensors and as much resolution as possible. To them anything else is just a door stopper.....
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Looking forward to seeing how well the IQ150/Credo 50 does with long exposures and also overall. I've been waiting in the wings and thinking about biting the CMOS bullet as an option.

    I don't see myself swapping the IQ260, just adding another option for the DF+ and potentially an FPS in the future to complement the Alpa.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Then again there's still plenty of folks that don't require extra long exposure times but do demand full frame sensors and as much resolution as possible. To them anything else is just a door stopper.....
    Again, the IQ280/IQ180/Credo80 would fit such purpose, not the IQ260.

  26. #26
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by voidshatter View Post
    Again, the IQ280/IQ180/Credo80 would fit such purpose, not the IQ260.
    Hey, are you calling our IQ260's ugly?? I may have to ask you to step outside for a 'chat' ... (Just kidding)

    I would agree though that if you were buying new today and wanted long exposure support and don't necessarily want 'full frame' (I hate that term), then the CMOS offerings available now provide arguably better alternatives.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  27. #27
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    "Hey, are you calling our IQ260's ugly?"

    It isn't that the backs are ugly, but that their owners are stupid.

    Pay attention Graham.
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    I have a thick skin ... (and I know what Voidshatter is saying and why btw)
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    ...I don't see myself swapping the IQ260, just adding another option for the DF+ and potentially an FPS in the future to complement the Alpa.
    Spoken as a true gentleman, with the eloquence of an enabler of the highest caliber and most honored standing in Dante's forum.

    We all salute you, Graham.



    Can't wait for show and tell in Lake Tahoe, aka the Enabler's Convention with Don & Ken.

    ken

  30. #30
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Just how many backs does Graham now own????
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Just how many backs does Graham now own????
    N+1
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    I think an IQ250 would be a very nice viewfinder (with its live view, for scenes with a tricky to setup tilt) for an IQ280 :-)
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Indeed. I used to take actual long exposures with the IQ260. We even did IQ260 long exposure testing to show how good they were.

    Personally I thought the results, at 8 minutes, under non-ideal lighting, with difficult dark subject matter with lots of detail, were pretty darn good.

    But now that I've heard it's crap for long exposures, we'd better just keep those backs in our safe.

    With all due respect, would you mind sharing RAW files of a side by side comparison between the P45+ and the IQ260 for long exposure? (preferably at 8 minutes or longer)

    My claim is based on comparison, not adhoc results. I would say if you publish the P45+ RAW files as well as the IQ260 RAW files, we will be able to see that the P45+ actually did better than this.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Just how many backs does Graham now own????
    That's just bad etiquette in Dante's Forum. It's like asking a woman her age. Unless she offers, it's better not to ask.

    Now about the size of Graham's 500+hp camera bag.....

  35. #35
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by voidshatter View Post
    With all due respect, would you mind sharing RAW files of a side by side comparison between the P45+ and the IQ260 for long exposure? (preferably at 8 minutes or longer)

    My claim is based on comparison, not adhoc results. I would say if you publish the P45+ RAW files as well as the IQ260 RAW files, we will be able to see that the P45+ actually did better than this.
    Could you also post photos of the backs of the P45+ and the IQ260 MFDBs? I would say if you publish photos of the rear LCD screens and interface, we will be able to see that the IQ260 actually did better, uh, P45+screen---nevermind.

    Everything has trade-offs/compromises, and at this level I'd take the IQ260 for the interface alone (yes, I've owned the P45+---Don, you'll notice that I'm offering that information ). Not much of a compromise in this case other than the large investment of cash for an IQ series interface. Maybe if Phase could allow upgrades to swap out the P+ series FW port for a USB3 interface, add Surface Pro tethering, and it would get interesting. New lifeblood for old P/P+ series MFDBs...

    Oh, wow. Huge overt digression. Congratulations on your new IQ150 Rick!

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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    I thought Graham would be getting a 50c since he has all the lenses and stuff?

    Paul

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Graham can get whatever back he wants, and in any mount.

    He still has all the lenses and stuff.

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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by voidshatter View Post
    With all due respect, would you mind sharing RAW files of a side by side comparison between the P45+ and the IQ260 for long exposure? (preferably at 8 minutes or longer)

    My claim is based on comparison, not adhoc results. I would say if you publish the P45+ RAW files as well as the IQ260 RAW files, we will be able to see that the P45+ actually did better than this.
    We (Digital Transitions) maintain and continually update a large raw catalog (>100gb) which we open to our clients making such evaluations. This includes a variety of P45+ to IQ260 comparisons. Moreover we provide access to whatever digital back system someone would like to make tests or comparisons for.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by voidshatter View Post
    With all due respect, would you mind sharing RAW files of a side by side comparison between the P45+ and the IQ260 for long exposure? (preferably at 8 minutes or longer)

    My claim is based on comparison, not adhoc results. I would say if you publish the P45+ RAW files as well as the IQ260 RAW files, we will be able to see that the P45+ actually did better than this.
    First and foremost, congratulations to Rick, Enjoy the back!!

    In all fairness to Doug and other dealers, I think that there is more going on.

    I owned a P45+, from March 2008 till I traded it in for a IQ160 in Nov 2011. My P45+ was an early unit. Many don't remember, but when the P45+ first shipped, it would not do 1 hour exposures. Yes they were promised, but just like the USB3 on the IQ backs, Phase said it was going to come later with firmware. The best you could get was around 15 minutes.

    It did come and it was a firmware update. However a certain number of P45+ backs had a different controller card and it was possible that the firmware could "brick the back". Phase was clear about this. The point being that the initial P45+ backs could not get to 1 hour, even close. Changes were being made behind the scenes, to improve the quality of the P45+.

    My P45+ was pretty much an iso 50 max 100 back. It tended to blow out highlights unless you made a point to expose for them and then the shadows were a mess, blocky with less details. So for most work, I bracketed, easy enough with the DF body as no LCC is needed.

    I have seen shots from other P45+ backs, all raw files, that amaze me, when I consider my P45+. Much better shadow recovery, and even less noise. Several shots I have seen at iso 200 from a P45+ were excellent. So no doubt either Kodak continued to tweak the P45+ chip and or Phase One continued to tweak the firmware/controller, I figure it's a bit of both. Net, in this case, it was better to purchase at the end of the product life cycle.

    I have shot my 260 up to 15 minutes and was not impressed at iso140. I have not taken it much farther out. In the testing that DT did back in Feb of 2014, the shots at 6 seconds, ( I believe that is correct) on the 260 looked terrible, as they contained a ton of stuck pixels and noise. This surprised me as I thought that was the point of the dark frame. Unlike the P45+, I not seen any shots from a 260, at IQ140, that really show much promise, say 10 minutes or longer. I had hoped that Phase would continue to tweak the 260 as they had the P45+, but that has not happened and I feel it's fair to say, that any further image quality improvements to the 260 are moot. That's too bad.

    Now with the 50MP chip, there is no doubt that this chip can go to 1 hour with very clean exposures, it's been shown already on many websites and by several users here. I don't think that is as much Phase One, as Sony and Exmour chip, it's just that good for this type of photography. I believe both Pentax and Hasselblad both allow the photographer to turn on the dark frame, something Phase does not. (at least that was case last time I checked).

    I don't think that the 260 can come close to the 250/150 at 1 hour. Based on my work, I feel that P45+ might actually come closer, if the conditions allow it. But this is based on my 260, if Dalsa and or Phase One or both continued to tweak hardware on this camera, the results may be better. However the need for that is less, since now there is a 50MP CMOS chip, back in the day of the P45+, that was it and Phase had to run a lot longer with the Kodak chip.

    But, the 260 offers a lot more of what I need in the field most of the time, than MY P45+ did, so for me it was a good move. I had long ago decided that for my night work, 35mm DSLR's make better sense.


    Paul

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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    We (Digital Transitions) maintain and continually update a large raw catalog (>100gb) which we open to our clients making such evaluations. This includes a variety of P45+ to IQ260 comparisons. Moreover we provide access to whatever digital back system someone would like to make tests or comparisons for.
    Would you mind sharing a link to download please? These have to be under the same condition, same time and location, same composition, same amount of highlight details.

  41. #41
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Yes, Doug, provide what's asked right now. Stop whatever you're doing, and get it done.

    Voidshatter has a right to those downloads immediately, and your failure to provide them is simply rude. We certainly don't want people here to be rude.

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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    My P45+ was pretty much an iso 50 max 100 back.
    The P45+ only has two native ISO settings: 50 and 100. Anything else is just extended (pushing).
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    I have shot my 260 up to 15 minutes and was not impressed at iso140.
    Even worse, the ISO 140 at which the IQ260 is running in long exposure mode is indeed ISO 200 (a pulling down to ISO 140, I also have hard evidence for this).
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    I believe both Pentax and Hasselblad both allow the photographer to turn on the dark frame, something Phase does not. (at least that was case last time I checked).
    You can disable darkframe NR on IQ2 backs on a technical camera, if you set "Aerial" in "Camera mode" and "Zero" in "Shutter latency".
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    I don't think that the 260 can come close to the 250/150 at 1 hour. Based on my work, I feel that P45+ might actually come closer, if the conditions allow it.
    Based on my calculations you are right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    But, the 260 offers a lot more of what I need in the field most of the time, than MY P45+ did, so for me it was a good move. I had long ago decided that for my night work, 35mm DSLR's make better sense.


    Paul
    The IQ260 does offer more flexibility when it suits your needs. I am just disappointed with the image quality in long exposure mode.

  43. #43
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by voidshatter View Post
    Would you mind sharing a link to download please? These have to be under the same condition, same time and location, same composition, same amount of highlight details.

    I don't think I saw anywhere that Doug was claiming IQ260 files at long exposure were equal or better than P45+ long exposures. And if I was asked, I would say they are not. As most IQ260 users know, what the IQ260 primarily does is extend the exposure time longer than, say, an IQ160 does, and produces a very usable file in those situations. But it is not as noise/grain free as a P45+ or IQ150/250 file at long exposures. Did anyone say this?

    Despite that, it does indeed provide usable files at long exposures that would not be usable from an IQ160, etc.


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar Authorized Reseller
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    I don't think I saw anywhere that Doug was claiming IQ260 files at long exposure were equal or better than P45+ long exposures. And if I was asked, I would say they are not. As most IQ260 users know, what the IQ260 primarily does is extend the exposure time longer than, say, an IQ160 does, and produces a very usable file in those situations. But it is not as noise/grain free as a P45+ or IQ150/250 file at long exposures. Did anyone say this?

    Despite that, it does indeed provide usable files at long exposures that would not be usable from an IQ160, etc.


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Thank you Steve! You have just earned my respect by speaking the truth as an honest dealer!

    According to my tests, the IQ260 only does a better job in the dedicated long exposure mode (at ISO 140) for >2 minutes when compared against the IQ160. To sum up:

    less than 2 minutes: IQ250 > IQ260 (@ ISO 50) = IQ160 >= P45+ > IQ260 LE (@ ISO 140)
    more than 2 minutes: IQ250 > P45+ > IQ260 LE (@ ISO 140) > IQ260 (@ ISO 50) = IQ160
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  45. #45
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Congratulations, Steve. You've been approved.

  46. #46
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Definitely approved.

    Steve and Doug, you can be my pal. In fact, "How about a Fresca?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDFCL5Oiqk0



    And Yair. Yeah, he gets a Fresca too.
    Last edited by kdphotography; 3rd February 2015 at 10:19.

  47. #47
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    From an historical perspective, what was interesting as an IQ160 user frustrated with the < 60s long exposure capabilities, I had a couple of options for how to get proper long exposure support (which realistically is normally extending to a few mins or maybe < 20 mins) for approximately the same financial outlay:

    1) Keep the IQ160 and buy a P45+ as a second back just for long exposures.
    2) Upgrade from IQ160 -> IQ260 and have a single back with the same UI and some other options but MUCH MUCH better long exposure capabilities vs IQ160 but not as good as a dedicated P45+ could achieve.

    Now of course, two years later or so, we have the CMOS option which obviously can spank the Dalsa CCD's capabilities. If you were making this choice today then obviously the CMOS backs are very very compelling.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Hey Rick,

    Just wanted to pipe in here and say that I'm happy you like the gear! Glad I was able to test everything for you before it went out to ensure it was all working in peak shape.

    Chris Valites
    Capture Integration
    Chris Valites
    Research, Marketing & Support, Capture Integration
    Email-Me

  49. #49
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    Chris, you get a Fresca too.

  50. #50
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    Re: Just pulled the trigger..

    i'm having a gimlet
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