H5D/4D-60 and tech camera scene calibration

[tjv]

Hi all,

It seems I'm soon to get the go ahead to purchase a full Hasselblad kit for work. I will do some hands on tests soon with various models, but I will not have the opportunity to mount it on my Linhof Techno due to my inability to borrow the correct adaptor plates, etc.

The kit will most likely be a H5D-60 and a set of primes, 35mm, 50mm, 80mm and 120mm.

My question is for those out there that have used the Hasselblad implementation of the 60mpx chip on a technical camera. I'm wondering how you are finding Phocus for scene calibration / LCC and if you are annoyed by any tiling or rippling issues, even after applying the LCC shot in Phocus? I plan to use only two Rodenstock lenses with the Techno / H-60, being the 40HR and, eventually 70HR, but also the 55 APO Sironar-Digital and 90 HR-W. If people are having a lot of problems and the results are a relatively frequent, I would probably rather go for the following kit:

H5D-50c, 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 80mm, 120mm and HTS1.5x.
Or, if I forgo the HTS and 24mm, I could possibly afford to get the CCD 50 AND 50c, plus a set of lenses. I see the CCD version is seeing some price reductions at the moment, and research by forum members such as Anders Torger suggests the 50mpx CCD is the best all around tech camera chip to go for if maximising moments and maintaining colour accuracy is important. For me it is.

Either way to look at it, it's a luxurious position to be in, that's for sure. I wish they would be my personal cameras for me to use only, but alas, I'd have to share them with workmates, etc.. I would have the use of them for a good portion of the time for my personal projects, which I'm funded to undertake as part of my job.

Any advise on the above, particularly the 60mpx scene calibration performance in Phocus is appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

TJV

 

[tjv]

Noone out there care to comment?

 

[stngoldberg]

I have the H5D50 back which. I use in conjunction with the Arca Swiss RM3DI.
I have not had any issues using scene calibration to implement my LCC's, but I understand that the H5D60may not be as trouble free on a tech camera
I don't remember any participants on this form commenting on the use of the 60 megapixel back with a tech camera. Perhaps none of the members own that combination
Stanley

 

[tjv]

Thanks, Stanley.
Anders Torger has mentioned that Phocus is not good (read not capable) of removing things like tiling issues that the 60mpx Delsa is prone to having when pushed. I'm interested to know how much of an issue this might be with Hasselblad, as I have seen quite a few Phase users here posting problems even with C1.
Basically, my problem is that I, personally want to buy an H5D-60 that I can use on my Linhof Techno for personal work (which would be at least 60% of what the camera is used for) but the 50c would probably be a far better option for the remaining 40%...
T

 

[Enda Cavanagh]

I tested the H5D 60 and H5D 50 briefly. The H5D 60 showed the usual problems with Dalsa sensor backs on Schneider 28mm xl and 35mm xl wide angle lenses. IE very bad colour distortion when shifting. When I tested the H5D 60 i tested with shift straight away to see if it even made sense borrowing it from Hasselblad. When I saw the issues appearing straight away, which have been described in great detail in connection with Phase One Dalsa sensor backs I decided against borrowing it ended up taking out a H4D 50 for a week. The H5D 50 used a different voltage so couldn't be used with my Quantum Turbo 3.

The H5D 50 will give you much more freedom in your lens choice than a H5D-60. The scene calibrations images I took with the Schneiders were sent on to Torger at a later stage. His very useful tests confirmed that the H4d 50/H5d 50 sensor was IMO the best sensor for users with view cameras.

 

[tjv]

Great info, thanks Enda. Yes, I think in many ways the 50 is, in many ways, the "best" ballanced CCD back for technical camera use. Very close to full frame and more freedom of movements is a very attractive proposition...

As a side not, I am very, very grateful to Paula at Linhof Studio who has generously sent me a back adaptor so I can try the 50c mounted on my Techno for myself. Exceptional service in the age of soulless e-shops!

So... I'll finally be able to contribute some info about the CMOS back back to the GetDPI family soon!

 

[torger]

Few responses is because there are few users, I don't think I have seen a single H4D-60 tech user here, Phase One owns the tech cam market. Sean Conboy has used one though, he is at Lula sometimes. With Rodenstock Digarons on the wide end and normal contrast processing and reasonable shifts you should not have any visible issues.

 

[tjv]

Yes, I thought as much. You never know who's lurking out there that might be inspired to share though! I'm looking forward to testing a few backs myself soon, so perhaps I can share some info myself.

 

[torger]

I don't have any tech camera raw files from H4D-60 unfortunately, but lots from various Phase One backs. One thing that would be interesting to know is how well Hasselblad has succeeded to calibrate the readout channels, the tiling issue is both due to actual tiles on the sensor but also A/D converter calibration (ie readout calibration). I'd love to have a H4D-60 LCC shot in 3FR format for analysis.

My H4D-50 has two readout channels and they're extremely well matched, only in extreme processing of dark frames I'm able to see that there actually are two channels. If Hassy has succeded with that quality calibration on H4D-60 much of the tiling go away (not all though as tiling is also due to tiles on the sensor, something that do not exist on Kodak sensors). With Phase One there's some issues with that some backs are better calibrated than others meaning that tiling can be more or less visible.

Very few users get problems with it though, assuming Rodenstock wides are used. High contrast black and white processing is the typical use case where you may get some problems.

 

[jotloob]

. . . . .

My H4D-50 has two readout channels and they're extremely well matched, only in extreme processing of dark frames I'm able to see that there actually are two channels. If Hassy has succeded with that quality calibration on H4D-60 much of the tiling go away (not all though as tiling is also due to tiles on the sensor, something that do not exist on Kodak sensors). With Phase One there's some issues with that some backs are better calibrated than others meaning that tiling can be more or less visible.

Very few users get problems with it though, assuming Rodenstock wides are used. High contrast black and white processing is the typical use case where you may get some problems.

Not quite true.
I experienced tiling once with an image of my CFV-39 . (KODAK SENSOR)?
I recall , i experimented with high contrast in B/W and as I could not remember which parameters I used I could not reproduce the issue .:banghead:
It did not turn up since .

 

[Enda Cavanagh]

Yes Sean is the only photographer that I know who works with a Hassie 60 megapixel back on a tech camera. Can't remember if it's the H5D or H4D but they have the same sensor. He shoots wth Rodenstock so he'd be a good person to ask. He's a lovely guy. Very helpful. I'm sure you could just email him with your questions

 

[tjv]

I did email him once – at the suggestion of someone else – but didn't hear back. I'm not surprised though, looking at his website he's a really busy guy! From watching a video of him shoot on Hasselblad TV, he's got the workflow down and using live view in Phocus while tethered in the field. I guess the results speak for themselves.

 

[torger]

A good photographer can always get good results, but one may want to know which workflow that's used. If the workflow includes cleaning up tile lines manually in Photoshop now and then would be interesting to know for example. I don't think it's likely though, the problems are small with the Rodies so it should work out well in most cases. With specific corrections you can stretch the system a little bit more though.