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Thread: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

  1. #51
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Most folks here are Alpa, Arca and Cambo users - all good equipment. So from another perspective, the Techno. Its a more traditional view camera setup, with a rigid back allowing only rise/fall, with side shifting either from the front standard or with a stitching back. Some might not care for that, but its main benefit is use of simple view camera lenses on a board, with all your movements (tilt and swing too) without needing any special mount. For me, that flexibility was attractive, especially since I didn't know what lenses I would prefer over time. It also allows for easy (cheap) trying of different lenses.

    The major use change in a tech camera for me was first, the dedication to shooting from tripod only. That was easy enough, but harder was setup in the field, especially when using a stitching back. I like to walk and shoot, so a fixed setup point at one place isn't ideal - and its not like you want to walking with the stitching back on. For this , the pancake cameras are easier to use.

    One way to deal with this is to directly attach the back to the camera, and find some way to focus. Surprisingly, this works - you set the lens stops to infinity, and use hyper focal (f11) for landscape shots. You can chimp for composition (Usually 3-5 shots gets the focus if other than infinity), and sling the camera over your back for short walking. I'm not a fan of taking backs on and off - too much dirt and risk.

    TJV is exploring a CMOS back on the Techno; others have used ND filters and live view. One could also imagine that a faster back (say a Credo) on the camera might make chimping more workable.

    Use of a stitching back allows GG composition and focus, which is good fun, and focusing isn't that hard. Torger's analysis on focus is pretty much spot on, but its pretty easy with the 12X loupe. Of course, I'm not doing much critical shooting close up (say 8') where the DOF is really small - and for that one would need to check the files anyway. If you really want to shoot wide open at close distances, then there might be better ways to go. But use of the GG allows you to consider what stitching might look like before you shoot.

    Linhof makes two stitching backs, a really long one (essentially 3 parts wide), where the GG is always covered, even when the back is shifted on the camera. While ideal, its heavy and makes for a great wind sail. They also have a shorter one (2 parts wide), which works fine too. My Leaf AFI back mounts won't work with their shorter back, so two alternatives:

    Kapture Group makes a 3-way back that will take almost any mount (front and back). Nicely made, easy to use, and all sorts of formats can be done with it. Issues: it won't focus the 35mm lens (it sits too far back), and more importantly, the digital back mount is held in by a sturdy but spring-loaded clip which is fine for standing still, but not foolproof if moving about.

    Silvestri make a stitching back with a lock to hold the back in place, and it also focuses the 35mm (on a recessed lens board). But its not as flexible as the KG, nor as easy to use. The KG ground glass (probably Maxwell) is better, you can pretty much focus in daytime almost without cover.

  2. #52
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Tech cams are generally considered as an expensive way to get the sharpest wide angle corners. To me it's much different. Buying mostly second hand and chosing the best price/performance options the cost is about the same as a DSLR system with a couple of bird teles. The "magic" formula is view camera (Linhof Techno in my case) Schneider Digitar lenses and Hassy 50MP Kodak. I have seven lenses in my system, including wides with unrestricted movements. Resolution is not the same as IQ180 on Rodie32 but image quality is certainly not far behind, and freedom of movements is greater.

    What I wanted was large format without having to mess with film, and I think I got that. Tilt swing and movements on all focal lengths, even the wides, and the 50MP Hassy back exceeds 4x5 film in quality I think. For me this is a good offer at a reasonable price. A new Alpa system with Rodie wides and new Phase One back would not work out for me. Less flexible and just too high cost.

    Getting systems just below the highest end and getting some components second hand is an option I think should be suggested more often. My shooting style don't gain that much from the latest in DR, and my eyes are still good enough for the ground glass, and I am sure I am not the only one. I do enjoy and use movements on the lenses a lot though, and the flexibility I have on the Techno with seven lenses from 35 to 180 (all fitting in one bag by the way) can't be found in a SLR system, unless you crop and stitch. I prefer the one shot image with little or no cropping though, it's just more satisfying.

  3. #53
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Just remembered that I had serious lust for a Linhof at one time which in turn made me look at the Cambo Ultima 23. Still wouldn't mind either just so long as I could find someone to carry it...
    Don Libby
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    I went head first into the Alpa tech cams when I saw a great deal on an Alpa XY on this very forumn. Then I acquired two lenses, 24xl and the 47xl schneiders. I sold the 24 due to it's small image circle that limited movements, and I still have the 47xl digitar, which is my favourite lens: a good balance between sharpness and versatility. Last year, I sold my XY because I just don't use its extreme movements enough, and got myself a SWA.

    I gave up on longer focal length because for me, tech cameras really shine in the ultra wides. I have no doubt that longer focal lenses are equally good, but I prefer my HY6 systems for longer focals, and the newer rollei glasses are equally outstanding.

    So now, i trimmed my ALpa set up to just a SWA (for the shift and the occasional handheld shots), and 47xl. I use an Aptus 12 back that can be shared between the Alpa and my Hy6.

    It's meeting my needs now, but somewhere in the future I might consieder a wider lens (like the 32 HR), and going for an Alpa max

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    With regards to the Linhof Techno, Linhof now make a third stitching slide especially for backs with live view. This new slide is neither big nor cumbersome (like the older stitching backs with integrated GG,) and allows for stitching in all directions, if utilising the back rise / fall in combination with the slides movements.

    I absolutely love my Techno. As most know, I am using it to shoot film and I scan with my Imacon 949, or works Hasselblad X1. With the Rodenstock 55mm APO SD and Rodenstock 90mm HR W I get stunning results, but the cost of materials and slow degradation of quality labs to process C-41 film is forcing me to seriously consider digital.

    Anyway, the Techno was the most attractive system for me because I'd been shooting almost exclusively with a Technika V for some years. The workflow and GG experience was a very important part of my workflow and the way I visualised my final shot. I tried the Techno and found the smaller GG to be vey sharp and, contrary to popular belief, I didn't find the smaller GG to be any harder to judge composition, etc. In fact, the Silvestri GG which I have is far sharper than the (brand new) GG and fresnel I had mounted on my Technika. With a 12x loupe, focus is exceptionally easy, admittedly on film which is more forgiving than digital.

    With CMOS technology I firmly believe that the Techno might now be the unsung hero of the technical camera world. It's comparitively light and quite portable – especially considering the lenses don't need funny mounts – and it's easy to use with any lens, from wide to tele. Thank goodness you don't need strange spacers etc on your lenses like Alpa...

    The ONLY thing I don't like about my Techno is that the lens horizontal shift mechanism zero marker is slightly off. I think Torger has reported this is the same on his Techno. I am going to send my camera back to Linhof Studio at some point to get this fixed. It's not a big deal as I know where the zero point is, but I want it perfect and am a little sick of having to remember where neutral is!

    Lastly, with regards to the new short slider for live view backs, you can also use it with the new bright GG if you want. I think it just requires an adaptor. That way you have the best of both worlds. Might not be great to swap backs out in the field, but in the studio or inside, it might not be a problem for dust, etc.

  6. #56
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    First I came into the MF world by pure coincidence. I had a Canon 400mm DO IS lens for sale and a guy wanted to trade his DM22 kit for it which I did. Didn't take long for me to get hooked and looking for info on lenses I stumbled upon GetDPI and then I got sucked into the tech cam world and began lusting...

    I looked at Alpa, but the only one that fit the bill (both shift and rise/fall) was the Max (with shift adapter) and since I do a lot of hiking and backpacking to remote locations I found it to be too big and heavy.
    Then coincidence (again) had it that a dealer in Ireland sold a Cambo WRS kit with SK35XL and SK47XL for a reasonable price and I jumped on it and I haven't looked back since.

    A year later I upgraded the back to a Leaf Aptus-II 7 and got a SK24XL and SK120 Asph in T/S mount as well.
    The Aptus was upgraded to a IQ160 last spring and in the same process I sold the 24XL, 35XL and 47XL and got the HR40 and SK60XL instead, both in T/S mounts.
    Recently I got a great deal on a SK150 so now I have the 40HR T/S, SK60 T/S, SK120 Asph T/S and SK150.

    I kinda miss a lens a bit wider than the 40 so I might get one at a later time but the 40 will "have to do" for now
    Oh yes and the first Cambo WRS 1000 has been upgraded to a WRS 1250 with the nice wooden handles.

    I love the slower process of shooting with the tech cam. I even have arranged with Don to buy his ground glass solution to go even slower and try to get everything right in the first shot :-)
    Peter
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  7. #57
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Just a note on long lenses, I mostly use my 180 for "intimate landscape" scenes, rather than shooting long distance stuff. Tilt is rarely used with it (has happened though) but shift is often used to align background elements or get things more upright.

    I could probably live and make images without movements, but when I have them I have adopted a style which makes use of them. Composition becomes more interesting, challenging and rewarding when you have movements in the equation.
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    As I wrote above I'm thinking of adding a wider lens to my kit.
    The 32HR would be an obvious choice, but it is very expensive and heavy and somewhat fragile. Also quite close to the 40HR but of course I could sell that.

    Anyway I'm thinking of the Rodie 28 instead, but the 70mm image circle is quite small compared to the 32 leaving almost no room for shifting.
    I have read elsewhere that it' is possible to shift about 6mm with a full frame back (I have an IQ160) before hitting the disc inside the lens. Can anyone confirm that?
    Peter
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    The 28 Rodie will allow only allow 6mm of shift on your IQ160. This is because Rosensrick uses a device inside the lens to show you when you hit the image circle. They do this in all their lenses in fact.

    You will start to see a hard black vignette at 6mm and is you go any further the vignette becomes very damaging to the file.

    This is most unfortunate as I believe the lens would easily make a clean 100 to 12mm shift. I have taken mine that far and the parts of the image not ruined by the vignette are very good.

    The 32 starts to show this issue at around 16mm is shift due to the larger IC.

    The 28 also benefits from the CF. The CF is the same part for both the 23 and the 28.

    Paul

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Thanks Paul.

    So it is possible to shift lets say 5mm with the 28HR without any issues?

    Peter
    Last edited by Pemihan; 3rd March 2015 at 05:21.
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    In a perfect world I would trade in my 35XL and 28 HR and get the 32. But I can't seem to get anywhere on that.

    The 28. Is probably the sharpest lens I have and the hyper focal distance with 1/2 a degree of tilt at f8 is about 10 feet.

    I feel it needs the CF unless in low light as the noise in the corners can get harsh. The CF takes it from 72mm to 95mm and you can use one slim filter in front of the CF.

    You have to watch for flare and I most times use a hood on the lens. I use a Lee wide angle hood and the Lee 95 to 105mm adapter. This allows the use of 1 square filter. There is not a Lee or other brand 95mm wide angle ring.

    Great Lens a bit heavy but not a large and massive as the 32mm.

    It's almost always in my bag.

    Paul
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Pemihan View Post
    Thanks Paul.

    So it is possible to shift lets say 5mm with the 28HR without any issues?

    Peter

    I found 5mm shift for the 28HR is absolutely the most you can do without vignetting .
    And that is valid for a sensor size 37x48 .
    As you use an IQ160 you will be well at the limit .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Sounds like I need to go dig up some gold nuggets and go the 32HR route instead...!
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    some rough pricing guides:
    rodie 32, copal #0, no focus helicoid (for lens board mounting) is about $7,000 (gasp)
    an SK60, copal #0, no focus helicoid (for lens board mounting) is about $3,400
    and for more giggles:
    an SK60, ALPA lableled, copal #0, with focus helicoid is about $6,700 (gasp)
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Every time I become serious about the 32HR I step back and think about how good the 40HR is and how close to the same focal length it is. Understanding the 32 would in all likelihood be a single capture lens with my IQ180 (no shifting or very little shifting) I can accomplish near the same with just a little effort using the 40HR. I then step back from the edge. Sure the 32 would be nice to have but I'm unwilling to give up the 40 so maybe I need to look for a wider lens that isn't so close to the 40; a lens I'm willing to shoot without any movements as a single frame and that frame being as large if not larger than what I can hope to get from the 40 with movements. This all makes sense to me as I write this...
    Don Libby
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    What are you using to hold the SP3?
    Arca Swiss Rm3di | XF | P1 IQ380 |

    http://www.awolfphotography.com/

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Every time I become serious about the 32HR I step back and think about how good the 40HR is and how close to the same focal length it is. Understanding the 32 would in all likelihood be a single capture lens with my IQ180 (no shifting or very little shifting) I can accomplish near the same with just a little effort using the 40HR. I then step back from the edge. Sure the 32 would be nice to have but I'm unwilling to give up the 40 so maybe I need to look for a wider lens that isn't so close to the 40; a lens I'm willing to shoot without any movements as a single frame and that frame being as large if not larger than what I can hope to get from the 40 with movements. This all makes sense to me as I write this...
    I have the same thoughts...
    Peter
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Just did a quick price check on 23 and 28mm lens...

    23 HR - $7,690
    28HR - $8,168
    28SuperDigital - $6,177

    And then there's Murphy's Law - as soon as I'd get on of these Phase will release their new improved body that has everything I've ever lusted after.

    Crap - the best thing for me to do is nothing...

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by awolf View Post
    What are you using to hold the SP3?
    The easiest way to answer this is to point you here.

    The first couple pages will give you the history where the last page or so will be the current status. Let me know if you need more information...


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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Don

    Which lens is the 28mm super digital??

    Thanks
    Paul

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by awolf View Post
    What are you using to hold the SP3?
    Just a quick Surface Pro update FYI. I've updated the shopping list for tethering with the Surface Pro at the end of my blog article: https://kendoophotography.wordpress....digital-backs/

    We'll probably update again with photos as well as yet another clamping option (light duty smaller hiking option) at a later date.

    ken

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Don

    Which lens is the 28mm super digital??

    Thanks
    Paul
    that's the Schneider WDS 547. I wonder how good it would be on an IQ180....
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    I forgot the Schneider 28. Thanks.

    Guy did a good review of the 28 HR and Schneider28 about a year ago. It's in the review section of this forum. He used a 160 back.

    I believe Edna C uses the Schneider also.

    Paul
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    I think you mean Enda...

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Thinking about this and have decided I really don't want to go down this rabbit hole ... but I think it may be too late
    Don Libby
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    I think you mean Enda...
    Yes. Thanks, sorry Enda.

    Paul.

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    One other issue hat has kept me out of the rabbit hole is the CF for the 32mm @ 1.3K. Some shoot without it but I feel in many situations it makes a difference.

    7.7 for the lens. 1K to mount it (Arca) and 1.3K for the CF.

    But it can get to 15-18mm of shift.

    I keep hoping to see a demo come on the market 😃

    Paul
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Paul,

    You will start to see a hard black vignette at 6mm and is you go any further the vignette becomes very damaging to the file.
    I've read on several occasions about the disc inside Rodenstock lenses. I wonder if you or anyone else can help me understand a bit more about this issue by answering the following:

    1. Is there anything physically stopping the photographer from using movements to shift/rise/fall beyond the perimeter of the disc, even if doing so will increasingly return a hard vignette in the captured image?

    2. If the answer to point 1 is "no" then is it true that a photographer shooting a stitched panorama would simply shift to a greater extent than normal, because the relatively shallow height of a panorama can 'reach' into the left/right edges of the lens image circle more so than other aspects?

    3. Does the hard vignette from the disc cause any issue when applying the LCC file in Capture 1?

    4. When you say "very damaging to the file" what do you mean? Just the hard vignette, or something else?

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    I guess it's up to ones impression. Taking a look at any of the test crops by Voidshatter you can see just who much of the image is lost by the hard vignette. This hard black is sometimes preceded by a lighter band of light that the LCC can't correct.

    If you don't mind cropping out all of the black then you could still use the rest of the file. But it would become close to a 1:3 ratio if you used the whole image

    The black corner vignette also is easier to work with if the area is not blue sky. This is where it's most destructive to me since you really can have a hard time trying to recover it.

    Voids works is with the 23HR but the effect is the vignette is the same Nd he has a lot of good examplea with blue sky.

    My point being-- the indicator is out in there by Rodenstock to keep users from shifting past the edge of the image circle due to rhe fact that they feel you should not shift past this optimum spot. In using the lens it's quite apparent that you could easily get to 10mm and still have plenty of good quality image on a modern MFD back.

    Paul
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    In a perfect world I would trade in my 35XL and 28 HR and get the 32. But I can't seem to get anywhere on that.

    The 28. Is probably the sharpest lens I have and the hyper focal distance with 1/2 a degree of tilt at f8 is about 10 feet.

    I feel it needs the CF unless in low light as the noise in the corners can get harsh. The CF takes it from 72mm to 95mm and you can use one slim filter in front of the CF.

    You have to watch for flare and I most times use a hood on the lens. I use a Lee wide angle hood and the Lee 95 to 105mm adapter. This allows the use of 1 square filter. There is not a Lee or other brand 95mm wide angle ring.

    Great Lens a bit heavy but not a large and massive as the 32mm.

    It's almost always in my bag.

    Paul
    Hi Paul

    Quick question, do you have shoot an LCC with 28HR when shooting straight on - no shift or rise? have you had any experience with 28 HR on the 180 or 280?

    thanks so much

    Phil

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by alajuela View Post
    Hi Paul

    Quick question, do you have shoot an LCC with 28HR when shooting straight on - no shift or rise? have you had any experience with 28 HR on the 180 or 280?

    thanks so much

    Phil
    Phil:

    Yes I shoot the LCC for even straight on shot, even with the CF installed. I have gotten away with a few shots where the color cast was not too extreme
    and did not have solids (blue/grey/white) where the color cast always shows more. The 28mm without the CF will tend to show some noise in the corners unless you are overexposing a bit, and if you add a filter system to the lens without the CF, the vignetting becomes pretty harsh.

    I have used the 28mm on a 180, and it worked great. On center, and 5mm of shfit. I actually pushed the lens to 7mm on one shoot and was able to use the shifts . I felt the LCC was very important on the 180 shots, as I did see a bit more color cast even on center. But details were amazing.

    What I often do with the 28mm is shoot a single and then take a short pano from it with a crop. With the 180/280 this becomes even more simple as the greater amount of resolution really helps.

    The 28mm will flare but not as bad as the 23mm or the 40mm. I have taken sunsets (shooting at the sun) with the 28 and many times the flare is not that bad, plus if you shoot one series with a finger blocking the sun the flare is not there (this is harder to do than one may think as you don't have a true view finder and Live View won't work here, so it takes some trial and error. You have to watch the 28mm when shooting where the sun is on your side, as that seems to me to the the worst time for flare.

    I have modified a Lee hood, with their 95mm to 105mm filter adapter. This lets me have a ND filter in the the one slot and Lee's new 105mm CL-PL filter on the front of the hood. Their new filter is slim and thus won't vignette.

    I can send you a couple of shots if you like, raw, with LCC. Just PM a email address. These will be from a 180.

    Paul
    Paul Caldwell
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Phil:

    Yes I shoot the LCC for even straight on shot, even with the CF installed. I have gotten away with a few shots where the color cast was not too extreme
    and did not have solids (blue/grey/white) where the color cast always shows more. The 28mm without the CF will tend to show some noise in the corners unless you are overexposing a bit, and if you add a filter system to the lens without the CF, the vignetting becomes pretty harsh.

    I have used the 28mm on a 180, and it worked great. On center, and 5mm of shfit. I actually pushed the lens to 7mm on one shoot and was able to use the shifts . I felt the LCC was very important on the 180 shots, as I did see a bit more color cast even on center. But details were amazing.

    What I often do with the 28mm is shoot a single and then take a short pano from it with a crop. With the 180/280 this becomes even more simple as the greater amount of resolution really helps.

    The 28mm will flare but not as bad as the 23mm or the 40mm. I have taken sunsets (shooting at the sun) with the 28 and many times the flare is not that bad, plus if you shoot one series with a finger blocking the sun the flare is not there (this is harder to do than one may think as you don't have a true view finder and Live View won't work here, so it takes some trial and error. You have to watch the 28mm when shooting where the sun is on your side, as that seems to me to the the worst time for flare.

    I have modified a Lee hood, with their 95mm to 105mm filter adapter. This lets me have a ND filter in the the one slot and Lee's new 105mm CL-PL filter on the front of the hood. Their new filter is slim and thus won't vignette.

    I can send you a couple of shots if you like, raw, with LCC. Just PM a email address. These will be from a 180.

    Paul

    Thank you so much Paul - very precise and informative response - I certainly would like to see the files. I will send you my work address as msn, won't accept large files.

    Thank you again

    best

    Phil

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Peter, care to share what you did to modify the Lee hood?

    Don
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Peter, care to share what you did to modify the Lee hood?

    Don
    Don, I think you mean Paul?
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Peter, care to share what you did to modify the Lee hood?

    Don
    Actually I have to give full credit to Wolfgang for this. I had been banging my head for over a year on this, and had all the parts, but did not put it together in my head. Common for me.

    The Lee Wide angle hood, will ship with:
    1. no slots
    2. 1 filter slot
    3. 2 filter slots (they may not have this model anymore as it's so easy to just
    add the parts after the fact)

    Lee's wide angle rings stop at 82mm, they don't make an 86 or 95mm. Schneider/Lee made a "wide" angle ring @ 95mm but it was for the Schneider system and it's not a wide angle ring, in that it doesn't fit in the way the rest of the wide angle rings do, i.e. they actually move along side the lens barrel and make the ring almost flush so to reduce vignetting. Lee may have made a 95mm "wide angle" at one time, but they don't anymore and the ring that BH used to have listed is not a wide angle design, ( know this as I purhcased one and they changed out their website due to my issues).

    You can't dremel down the inside enough to not allow vignetting as the rings are actually two pieces, and once you thin it down the ring wants to come apart not to mention you now have bare aluminum to paint or coat.

    Lee makes a 95mm to 105mm adatper. This mounts over the CF of the 28mm Rodie perfectly. It has a screw down style adatper so it stays in place.

    All you have to do is take a Lee hood with the 1 filter slot adapter, remove the standard filter slot adatper and screw back in the 95mm to 105mm adapter. This give you 1 4 x 4 or 4 x 6 slot and you can still mount the 105mm adapter ring to the front for a CL-PL. Even the Lee thin CL-PL will cause a bit of vignetting on a 5mm shift, but it's still fine on center.

    Only issue--now your hood only fits the 28mm Rodie. So to adapt back, you have to take 5 minutes to unscrew the 95mm to 105mm adapter from the back of the hood, and put back the standard 1 slot that came with the hood.

    This I use with wide angle adapter rings on my 35XL, 40Rodie, 60XL 90 and 120.

    You could always pick up a 2nd hood, but carrying around 2 of them in the field is a bit of weight.

    One other neat feature: of the Lee.

    CI used to sell a great LCC plate, that can on a clip so you wear it around your neck. This fits into the standard filter slot of the Lee hood, so taking a LCC is really quick and hands free. If I am using a ND in the slot, I always take out the ND for the LCC, but leave on the CL-PL as all the ND should be doing is dropping light (if it's not plagued with color cast as some are)

    You can also easily mount the standard Phase One LCC plate (which I still prefer to use) to the front of the hood with spring clips, one on each side. It just fits. You will have to watch for light leaks in the area between the hood and adapter ring as there is a small gap there, but I just cover that with a cloth.

    This allows the hood to work as the LCC holder and it just makes things simpler for me.

    I will try to get a shot up later today, as I know it's worthless without a pic.

    Paul
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    In Barcelona at MWC, so missed a lot of the cool action on this refreshing thread. A few comments addressing several different posts...

    1. LCC's taken with the "hard" edge showing can be problematic. They appear not just to affect the dark areas, but also have a strong halo around them. So had you shot without the hard edge in your frame, you would have had a larger FoV to work with.

    2. Based on above, it is still not advised to shoot to the max shift available on the body disregarding the limits of the lens IC.

    3. 40HR vs. 32HR - he 32HR can shift just as much. It is not quite as fragile as folks make it out to be, and perhaps a little sharper than the 40, and certainly less prone to flare. If people are interested, I can post samples with max shift on both. The biggest points for the 40HR over the 32HR are size, price and "can get away without CF".

    4. Something that may not be quite so obvious as a benefit of tech cams, and perhaps why the other thread on CMOS/CCD took such a bad turn, is that not only are you "forced" to slow down in your workflow, but you take on a totally different perspective on the technology rat-race. I am on Phase now, but if I want to get a has CFV-50c back, my extra expense for a switch is only about $700 for the Arca 6x9-mamiya adapter. So, there really is no panic in having to change lenses, bodies etc. If phase comes out with a 120MP CMOS back without micro lenses, then perhaps Universalis or even a Monolith is in the cards, again, no issue with compatibility of my current lenses or accessories. At a little larger cost, if I decide to go switch my tech cam platform from Arca to Alpa or Cambo, my lenses are still the same lenses (I know Cambo will mount used lenses, but need to confirm for Alpa).

    5. Outside of a few bits of the ocean, our little blue planet has been photographed to death. My take is that the only thing that separates me is what I can do differently - lighting, framing, perspective, resolution, colors. With the exception of lighting, a tech cam gives me more control of everything else, and that's why I have one, and it has certainly proven itself in use.

    6. MWC - Not really a photo show, but given the "Convergence" mantra for the past 5 years, I'm sure some people are wondering. Lots of NFV/Virtualization/SDN/IoT blah blah blah. Saw the Dell XPS 13 - gorgeous screen, super light, still think the SP3 is better as a tethering tool for MFDB. Sony has some cool Android stuff that will give Apple run, no camera stuff in their booth.
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    CI used to sell a great LCC plate, that can on a clip so you wear it around your neck. This fits into the standard filter slot of the Lee hood, so taking a LCC is really quick and hands free. If I am using a ND in the slot, I always take out the ND for the LCC, but leave on the CL-PL as all the ND should be doing is dropping light (if it's not plagued with color cast as some are)
    We still do! The Pocket LCC is something we can't recommend enough to people.

    In Barcelona at MWC, so missed a lot of the cool action on this refreshing thread. A few comments addressing several different posts...

    1. LCC's taken with the "hard" edge showing can be problematic. They appear not just to affect the dark areas, but also have a strong halo around them. So had you shot without the hard edge in your frame, you would have had a larger FoV to work with.
    Totally agree with this. I had been shooting to the edge, and ended up with some magenta shifts on my images as well as the haloing. I will say that I ended up with the shot in black and white anyways, and manually adjusting the haloing as best I could.

    2. Based on above, it is still not advised to shoot to the max shift available on the body disregarding the limits of the lens IC.
    Always shoot to the ability of the lens itself. No point in getting out beyond what the lens is capable of; at that point you're just throwing away data.

    4. Something that may not be quite so obvious as a benefit of tech cams, and perhaps why the other thread on CMOS/CCD took such a bad turn, is that not only are you "forced" to slow down in your workflow, but you take on a totally different perspective on the technology rat-race. I am on Phase now, but if I want to get a has CFV-50c back, my extra expense for a switch is only about $700 for the Arca 6x9-mamiya adapter. So, there really is no panic in having to change lenses, bodies etc. If phase comes out with a 120MP CMOS back without micro lenses, then perhaps Universalis or even a Monolith is in the cards, again, no issue with compatibility of my current lenses or accessories. At a little larger cost, if I decide to go switch my tech cam platform from Arca to Alpa or Cambo, my lenses are still the same lenses (I know Cambo will mount used lenses, but need to confirm for Alpa).
    Actually, ALPA will do it as well. I'm not sure on the pricing, but if you're seriously interested, let me know and we'll talk to them about it.

    5. Outside of a few bits of the ocean, our little blue planet has been photographed to death. My take is that the only thing that separates me is what I can do differently - lighting, framing, perspective, resolution, colors. With the exception of lighting, a tech cam gives me more control of everything else, and that's why I have one, and it has certainly proven itself in use.
    Totally on board with you. At this point, I'm sick of trying to create something so unique nobody has seen it before; I just want to create what I want to create. The options available with the resolution of the backs, combined with movements, is what sets even the Cambo WRC I've been using on hiking expeditions apart from anything I've used before.
    Chris Valites
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    I've recently begun thinking of getting a wider lens that my current HR40 as I was under the mistaken impression I'd be limited to less than 10mm movements while using either Mt Lee filter holder or newly acquired Lee wide-angle hood. I've been running movement tests for the past couple days and seeing movements out to approximately 8mm when the Lee hood was attached and 1 of the 2 filters slots filled. Frankly I wasn't liking what I was seeing and began to start looking at the 23 or 28 as a possible "1-shot" lens (super wide without movements).

    All this changed today. I removed one of the two filter slots on the hood and took the camera out to test everything. Shooting center then 5 & 10mm left & right I first did the LCCs. Running the LCC files through C1 where I profiled the lens and created the LCc files for each shot. The files looked great, clean even color with no vignette even at 10mm (which is what I had seen before). Went back outside and shot a test image. I eventually stitched the 10mm files together (after running the LCC in C1). Great file! No distortion no vignette just a file that was perfect to process. The 10mm stitched file turned out close to 9" longer that the single centered file while the difference between the 5mm file is close to 3".

    Bottom line is removing the seldom used 2nd filter slot made a world of difference. I also tried the same test without filters or hood and think I might be able to go close to 15mm since the LCC shot cleaned up nicely.

    In the end it would appear I can save some cash and while a 28 or 23 would be "nice" to have it isn't and urgent need to have as I once thought.

    Don
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Yes that 2nd slot adds quite a bit to the thickness. I use the Lee Wide Angle with 1 slot and you can easily get to 15mm of shift with the 40 Rodie. Can't rise much from 15mm due to the hard vignette of the IC indicator.

    You can also add the Lee 105mm on the front of the hood and still get about 14mm of shift. This gives you the one filter slot for a ND and a CL-PL in front. Using the Lee CL-PL in the slot is hard since to rotate it you have to rotate the hood.

    Love the 40mm for sure.

    Paul
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    In the end it would appear I can save some cash and while a 28 or 23 would be "nice" to have it isn't and urgent need to have as I once thought.

    Don
    Ok Don, I'm bookmarkng this post and coming back to it later ... because never in the history of GetDPI has any thread ended like this and not been proven to fall victim to Dante's GAS
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Don

    I have the 24XL on a P45+ (roughly equal to a 28mm of FF I guess) and it is certainly a "nice to have" rather than a "have to have" lens as it is more often than not too wide.

    Still, I'm glad I have it though
    Stop chasing gear, start chasing photos instead.

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Ok Don, I'm bookmarkng this post and coming back to it later ... because never in the history of GetDPI has any thread ended like this and not been proven to fall victim to Dante's GAS
    So true and we're now up to 2-pages!

    However it isn't the end of the thread, just the end of my testing the usefulness of one of my lenses. I'll come up with something else shortly either that or Ken or you or Steve will.
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    My problem is that I need to replicate my two favourite focal lengths on the CFV-50c (that I'm 95% sure I will buy soon) that I use on 6x7cm film. I have the long end covered, but to get my preferred wide angle coverage I'd need to pony up for the 32HR. I don't really care about the physical size of the lens, but the cost is substantial compared to the 40HR. Eventually it'd be nice to have both the 32HR and 40HR, but I'd only be able to buy one to begin with. My wallet is telling me to settle for the 40HR in the meantime, but my brain tells me it'd be a strain on my shooting style and frustrate me.
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    So true and we're now up to 2-pages!

    However it isn't the end of the thread, just the end of my testing the usefulness of one of my lenses. I'll come up with something else shortly either that or Ken or you or Steve will.
    Hear! Hear! I am not into this at present because I hardly have time ti put my existing systems to good use but I know one day I will end up with a back and a tech camera. So please keep the discussion and advice coming.
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    I don't think that this thread overall is dead at all, just Don's statement about not wanting a 23/28mm lens which of course is ridiculous here at GetDPI as we all know He will succumb at some point to a wider lens
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    ...Eventually it'd be nice to have both the 32HR and 40HR, .....
    Having the right attitude makes all the difference in Dante's Inferno...

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    How do we know that was even posted by Don?

    It's the kind of amusing comment one would expect from an imposter, like Ken.

    Or maybe it was posted by Don, but he omitted the emoticon:
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    I've learned that there's going to be a 23mm out from Atlanta next month to temp me. Going to be an interesting time in Tahoe...

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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras



    Make sure you take plenty of cash.
    Stop chasing gear, start chasing photos instead.

    Jeff, but my friends call me Dogs
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    Re: Let's begin a discussion on technical cameras

    Along with leaving the back cap on, add the on going (still!!) black frames from not releasing the lever that holds the shutter open for focusing prior to shooting. The two combined account for about 1/3 of my "exposures"... :-)
    Bob

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogs857 View Post
    A couple more things;

    The lenses have a back cap, remember to take that off. If I had a dollar for every time I have shot black frames and spent ages checking everything wondering what the hell has gone wrong Take the back cap off.

    The shutter. I religiously now check my shutter is fired before I try and open the lens for framing. This is very important as you can damage them and I have been in the unfortunate position of forgetting and having my 24XL stuck in a kind of half working half not mode. Luckily I got it rectified, but it was scary. I always check now, and I only cock my shutter just before I fire. No changing settings after the shutter is cocked.

    For my back a one shot release cable is a godsend. Get one and stop whinging about how much they cost. It will save you a lot of frustration in the long run.
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