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Thread: Tech Cam Newbie - Schneider Lens Question

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    Member marktomaras's Avatar
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    Tech Cam Newbie - Schneider Lens Question

    Hello Everyone, I just bought a Cambo WRS AE, Schneider 43XL, and Phase One IQ160. What a day! Heavy on the credit card, and heavy on excitement!

    I am new to Phase One and new to tech cameras. I recently had a Hasselblad V with digital back, and I shot an Ebony 4x5 back in the day, so I am not completely clueless, but close!

    I went out for my first battery of test shots to see what the tech camera can do, and of course I went right for the stitching shots. Super curious about what I can make happen. So, I shot my images, made my LCC frames, and got back to the studio.

    In post, I am used to applying Phocus Hasselblad lens corrections to my V-System lenses, which eradicate chromatic aberrations as well as distortion. I was surprised to find that I did not have this option in Capture One with my Schneider 43XL lens. I was even more surprised to see that there are profiles for the Rodenstock series of large format lenses, but none for the Schneider series of large format lenses.

    Am I missing something? I would really like to apply a profile, hopefully one supplied by the lens manufacturer, to correct any distortions or CA in the software automatically. Is this possible with Capture One? Is it possible in other RAW conversion software?

    Thanks!
    Mark

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cam Newbie - Schneider Lens Question

    Mark,

    The automatic 'Generic' CA analysis/correction is normally all I use with technical camera lenses within Capture One but there are more accurate corrections for the lenses available if you use the Alpa lens correction module within Photoshop. It's free.

    ALPA of Switzerland - Manufacturers of remarkable cameras - ALPA Lens Corrector

    I normally only use this with my 23HR Rodenstock (I can do it C1 now too) but it does support just about all of the available tech lenses if you really want accurate flat field correction etc etc. The good news is that Capture One 8.1 now supports easy round trips to Photoshop.

    Hope this helps.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Member marktomaras's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cam Newbie - Schneider Lens Question

    Excellent thank you. What workflow would you suggest trying first? Create LCC file, apply to the raw file, make normal raw corrections, export to PSD, run Alpa plug-in?

    - M

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cam Newbie - Schneider Lens Question

    If you don't need to apply vignette corrections I'd say yes exactly as you describe. LCC, colour adjustments etc in C1 for the best raw processing and then any lens distortion correction to the tiff file exported to PS. The LCC should sort out any light fall off anyway so this should work well. (I don't have the 43 but it worked well with my 35/47 Schneiders and 23HR until C1 had profiles with movements).

    I would disable sharpening when exporting to PS btw. It might not matter but better to leave the pixels alone I figure if you are going to do any corrections by warping the image.
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 20th March 2015 at 19:41.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Tech Cam Newbie - Schneider Lens Question

    Mark, I'd suggest getting a workflow that suits your shooting style the best. For me I normally shoot an LCC then the file. So long as I don't change the movements I use the original LCC however if I'm moving (either right, left or up and down) then I shoot an LCC before each capture. UNLESS - the scene is fast moving (light, clouds, color. You'll know it when you see it) then I'll shoot the scene then do the LCC afterwards in the exact order I shot. I also always shoot in the same order (center then shift to capture left to right ending up with the back to the left - remember you're capturing backwards). I also like to shoot bookends to my movements such as my hand so that I'll know for certain which files I want to stitch later on.

    Once on the computer I'll set the lens profile (I'm using a 40HR and SK72) then the LCC. C1 has some great adjustments and a lot of times I'll use them before saving the files to a Tiff for Photoshop. Once I open Bridge I'll stitch the files and continue working on them there before saving the finished file to a Tiff.

    Hope this helps and congratulations of the gear!


    Don
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    Senior Member Pemihan's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cam Newbie - Schneider Lens Question

    I shoot the image(s) first then the LCC(s). If I shoot to stitch I start with the back to the right (image left) then center end then left (image right). That makes the images show up in C1 left-center-right which to me is more natural when browsing through the files.
    Shooting the LCC's last also mean I doesn't have to shoot a bookmark as I know if there's two or more LCC's following a series of images it's for stitching.
    But whatever works best for you, just remember to stick with what you decide to avoid any confusion and it will soon become second nature.

    I rarely apply any lens profiles but always start in C1 with applying the LCC and then work on the image before exporting 16 bit tiffs, stitching in Photoshop and converting to B&W in Silver Efex Pro.
    Peter
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    Member marktomaras's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cam Newbie - Schneider Lens Question

    Thank you gentlemen. This is good advice. Can anyone add any wisdom to my perceived necessity of lens profile corrections of modern, high-end, digital large format lenses? It seems that profiled corrections are the way forward. Hasselblad has invested a lot of time in creating great profiles for its V-Lenses and H-Lenses. Some of them, such as the Planar 100 or the sonnar 180mm barely need any correction at all, but lo and behold, when you add the profile for the 180, any subtle CA disappears. Then consider the zeiss lenses for the sony A7II. The lenses are reassuringly high quality for this little system, but they darn well need the correction profiles to shine properly!

    When I recently shot with the Schneider 43XL I expected almost zero distortion. My expectations were very high. I was let down a little. It is a very, very good lens, but I was somewhat surprised by the distortion, especially after looking at the distortion chart, which looks downright amazing. (perhaps I am not skilled enough yet in reading and interpreting these charts).

    I would very much like a lens profile that is designed by Schneider, for use in a RAW editing program, that takes care of this.

    Graham Welland pointed me in the direction of Alpa's correction tool. I tried it (briefly) and did not see the 43XL exactly. There is a 43CL, but that was probably a typo! I did not see much effect on the image at all with this profile at any rate. It is very possible that I did something wrong, but I did not see a meaningful correction.

    Does anyone feel that this type of solution is either necessary, successful, or better still, available??

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cam Newbie - Schneider Lens Question

    The 43XL should be defined as the Alpa 43mm APO-Helvetar or 43mm APO-Digitar. That's how it's listed in the supported lens pdf.

    Also, there's a setting on the filter to show before/after. The effect may well be subtle depending on the lens (or not too obviously).
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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